How to survive ??

[Chisum]

I know it's a suicide to attack a convoy in 1944 but as is my duty, I try anyway.
But...
But when we fight against a weapon devastating like this on the picture, can you tell me how can we survive ?

:cry:

The first attack...
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8509/damnedha3.jpg


...is fatal.
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1128/killedby3.jpg

[Contact]

R.I.P. my friend :D
Development of hedgehogs is number two in my list of evil anti-sub creations after improved sonar :D

[Reise]

Fire from long range and take advantage of FAT eels

And dont get caught

[GoldenRivet]

all you can really do is go as deep as possible and listen for the splashes... at the first hint that hedgehogs are in the water go ahead flank... maybe turn. a lot of it has to do with luck and avoiding detection in the first place.

hedgehogs sink quickly, and its difficult to manuever out of the way quickly enough to evade them, but i recall an occasion where i managed to evade about a dozen hedgehog runs before they finally got me so it is not impossible.

im not sure on the historical accuracy of launching a full scale assault on a convoy that late in the war.

single ships and targets of opportunity were the order of the day really... byt late 1943 convoy attacks were nearly impossible to survive.

[Ping Panther]

One tip for evading a hedgehog salvo...
crash dive... and I mean DIVE... straight down if you can... bow to the bottom / stern to the stars!

It makes a much smaller target profile. :rotfl:

[Contact]

The best solution for escape is to pull out the pc voltage plug and run away from home :lol:

[Brag]

Sorry, my friend. Fire from long distance.

[U-46 Commander]

when the real u-boat captains were faced with this, they had to fire from long range. Also try to get ahead of the convoy, dive deep-50 meters, and slow to 1 knot or so.(silent running). wait for the escorts to pass, then go to periscope depth, sink afew ships, then get out of there!

[GoldenRivet]

strategic use of decoys...

What i have done in the past is launch decoys in the following manner.

While diving after the initial attack start a 270 degree turn, release a decoy every 45 degrees of heading change

lets assume you start at 000 degrees

here is the procedure

order a depth of 220 meters
start a right turn
rig for silent running
at heading 045 - launch decoy
at heading 090 - launch decoy
at heading 135 - launch decoy
at heading 180 - launch decoy
at heading 225 - launch decoy
at heading 270 - launch decoy - stop turn - continue dive to about 220 meters

this will create a descending spiral of decoys... the destroyers will be receiving seven echo returns when they ping... 6 decoys and 1 u-boat. this forces them to decide which return is the actual u-boat and then attack it... they have a 1 in 7 chance of selecting the right target... hopefully the selected a decoy instead of your boat.

sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right.

never increasing speed never surfacing or never securing from silent running until you are sure you have escaped.

the problem with this strategy is you use up pretty much all of your decoys in the process, but you can refit at a supply ship.

[Contact]

when the real u-boat captains were faced with this, they had to fire from long range. Also try to get ahead of the convoy, dive deep-50 meters, and slow to 1 knot or so.(silent running). wait for the escorts to pass, then go to periscope depth, sink afew ships, then get out of there!

I don't know.. Once I tried this tactics, but leading escort sweeps the area pinging frequently so it didn't worked for me :down:

[Contact]

strategic use of decoys...

What i have done in the past is launch decoys in the following manner.

While diving after the initial attack start a 270 degree turn, release a decoy every 45 degrees of heading change

lets assume you start at 000 degrees

here is the procedure

order a depth of 220 meters
start a right turn
rig for silent running
at heading 045 - launch decoy
at heading 090 - launch decoy
at heading 135 - launch decoy
at heading 180 - launch decoy
at heading 225 - launch decoy
at heading 270 - launch decoy - stop turn - continue dive to about 220 meters

this will create a descending spiral of decoys... the destroyers will be receiving seven echo returns when they ping... 6 decoys and 1 u-boat. this forces them to decide which return is the actual u-boat and then attack it... they have a 1 in 7 chance of selecting the right target... hopefully the selected a decoy instead of your boat.

sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right.

never increasing speed never surfacing or never securing from silent running until you are sure you have escaped.

the problem with this strategy is you use up pretty much all of your decoys in the process, but you can refit at a supply ship.

Wise :know:

"sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right."

is this gentle zigzaging really necessary ? slows down a boat a little though :hmm:

[Rommer69]

Do DC have a maximum deep to explode; i mean, can you avoid them at certain depths or you are not safe even below crush depths :rotfl: :rotfl:

[GoldenRivet]

Do DC have a maximum deep to explode; i mean, can you avoid them at certain depths or you are not safe even below crush depths :rotfl: :rotfl:
300 meters if memory serves.

DCs just vanish at 300m

As far as the gentle zig zag... i dont know if it really helps or not

[Jimbuna]

The best solution for escape is to pull out the pc voltage plug and run away from home :lol:

I like it :rotfl:

Always try to keep an eel loaded in the stern (two if in a IX)....the escorts always slow to 10/12 knots to get a precise fix.

A Falke later in the war is often your best friend....but remember, they take an extra 100 metres (400) to arm. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Chisum]

Fire long range...
Ok.
But the problem is that they wan't !
The escort is increasingly close to the convoy and force me to stay out of range of fire...(this sentence has been entirly translated by Google, I'm not sure you can understand lol).
And if I fire an acoustic topedos (T5) after 400m she follows the nearest destroyer and never hit a merchant...
:-?

Thanks to your ideas, I like the spirale system and try it next opportunity.

PS: to all players, don't forget: maximum depth is estimated with 100% integrity hull ! If lowest...maximum depth decrease(unknow values...). I can just tell you that with 30% integrity hull my IX/D2 had imploded at +/- 250 meters...
Last screen taken at 249m:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/7388/adiostb3.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adiostb3.jpg)

PS: note that the official values found on google says max depth at 230m...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterseeboot_178

(On the right side in a square, watch "Profondeur: 230m")

[nikbear]

Get rid of the TypeIXD2 and get a TypeVIIC/41,it dives deeper and faster,the old IXD2 is a big old bus that makes a cracking target at this point in the war:nope:you will live longer in the C41,not as many eels I grant you but by this stage of the war you should be a crack shot anyway:up:

[Chisum]

Certainly not, I use often the backup lol !
:lol:

But sorry, I'm in love with the IX/D2.
She have more torpedos and I don't want change.
It not means that I don't like the type VII/C 41, very fast effectively, but I prefer the U-178 who finish the war at Bordeaux.

You can understand now why I use the backup: it's an Historical question, U-178 CAN NOT be sunk !
:p

[Contact]

Certainly not, I use often the backup lol !
:lol:

But sorry, I'm in love with the IX/D2.
She have more torpedos and I don't want change.
It not means that I don't like the type VII/C 41, very fast effectively, but I prefer the U-178 who finish the war at Bordeaux.

You can understand now why I use the backup: it's an Historical question, U-178 CAN NOT be sunk !
:p

Titanic was unsinkable too :D So here's a cold shower for ya :lol:

[Kielhauler1961]

You're driving a IXD2 in 1944 AND you want to attack heavily escorted convoys??? These two things just don't go together.:lol:

[GoldenRivet]

U-178 CAN NOT be sunk !
:p


I'll have some of that action!
Put me down for 500 reichsmarks in favor of the allied destroyers!

[Rommer69]

Fire long range...
Ok.
But the problem is that they wan't !
The escort is increasingly close to the convoy and force me to stay out of range of fire...(this sentence has been entirly translated by Google, I'm not sure you can understand lol).
And if I fire an acoustic topedos (T5) after 400m she follows the nearest destroyer and never hit a merchant...
:-?

Thanks to your ideas, I like the spirale system and try it next opportunity.

PS: to all players, don't forget: maximum depth is estimated with 100% integrity hull ! If lowest...maximum depth decrease(unknow values...). I can just tell you that with 30% integrity hull my IX/D2 had imploded at +/- 250 meters...
Last screen taken at 249m:
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/7388/adiostb3.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adiostb3.jpg)

PS: note that the official values found on google says max depth at 230m...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unterseeboot_178

(On the right side in a square, watch "Profondeur: 230m")

I´ve just realized that all of yor seamen had some type of ability; i´m only in my 6 th patrol and may 1940, but in port i can only give a speciality to my officers and sub-officers. i suppose that later on the war, when all of them have one speciality, I will have the option to specialize my seamen too. Is that right?
It is easiest to play with an experienced and specialized crew!
Thank you.

[Jimbuna]

If your using SH3 Commander, you can give your seamen 'specialities' as you put it (they are qualifications) but they will give you no more additional benefits.

[Rommer69]

Not SH3 commander! Then i will give qualifications only to those who earned them;)
The seamen look all the same, there are very much and i never know who is who.
I´m afraid a good Kaleun should never say something like this :-?

[Chisum]

It is easiest to play with an experienced and specialized crew!
Yes it's very easy.
It's so easy that I have not yet been able to finish a campaign without a backup resume ...
:roll:

Anyway, it seems to me that everyone plays as he wants and this is not a reason to say that a true commander would not do that.
There is real commanders here ?

I think I could play a 100% realistic and never see anything of the game that I never do not take me for a true commander ...

:-?

[Penelope_Grey]

The best way to know if you are being hedgehogged is that the attacking ship will not pass over the top of you.

Generally speaking evasion in late war is hard as hell, and its always worth keeping a few spare torpedoes just in case you need to blast your way out.

In late war go as deep as the sub can go and keep your wits about you at all times. Owning a type XXI in late war also helps your chances of survival. A VIIC/41 is a must. That baby can go down past 300m if you push her...

[Rommer69]

It is easiest to play with an experienced and specialized crew!
Yes it's very easy.
It's so easy that I have not yet been able to finish a campaign without a backup resume ...
:roll:

:-?
Shuold have say easier instead of easiest, sorry.
I only meant that with qualified crew is easier than without it, not that the game is easy. I play 76% realism, only external camera and no duds.
And i was thinking when writing the post that it would be easier for me.
Sorry if i bother you.;)

[Chisum]

No problem Herr Kaleun.

Note that I don't give all specialities at the first patrol.
I procede as "real".
I suppose that after 2 missions, some of my crew are more experimented in a speciality and I give them this speciality.

I precise too that I don't give all medals at the begining of the game. But after a lot of patrols, I suppose that someone must be logicaly awarded.
Of course, in the end of the war as now in 1944, all crew is full awarded(because I have not changed my crew since the first patrol, always keep the same).

I'm a generous guy lol.
;)

[Chisum]

Great !

With your method it works !
I attacked a large convoy without ever having been detected.
I was able to leave without problem
But it was an American escort and they don't seem as aggressive than English.

It's still a good result, 4 big cargos and a destroyer.


http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5021/sh3img317200865651562bb6.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img317200865651562bb6.jpg)

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4200/sh3img31720087642625og3.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img31720087642625og3.jpg)

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1842/sh3img317200872934828ri4.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img317200872934828ri4.jpg)

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5884/sh3img31720087563031fv8.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img31720087563031fv8.jpg)

[Chisum]

Well, well, well...

Yesterday I resume a save to fight against a enormous convoy, only big ships(Jully 1944).
7 furious american hunters only for me, impossible to escape.

I was full silent, all stopped at 100m depth but at 5 miles I was detected and they never let me after that...

I'll be very curious to watch a "didacticial video" who explained how to survive in this conditions.

[Contact]

from all I have read, I found mostly usefull advice of GR with decoys tactics. Copy-pasted, saved, will try this when times comes :up:

[predavolk]

Well, I just got smoked by a destroyer in late 1943. Attacking convoys is absolute hell now thanks to improved sonar. There's just no escaping it. Using a IXB probably doesn't help, but it's just bloody nuts.

I don't play die = end of career (I don't have the time to start new careers), so I will write the whole thing up in my ongoing 100K thread when I reload the game. Briefly:

1- Attacking convoys off the West coast of Africa, along that money line 'cause thats where I was sent (I'd choose the Caribbean again in a heartbeat vs. this convoy doom).

2- First convoy I attack, I nail a couple of ships and speed away nicely. I get over 500M from my last datum point without being detected, go to silent from flank, and coast another 300M. I'm thinking- sweet! Then I get pinged from 1000M away by a destroyer who hounds the crap out of me. Decoys work for about 5-10 seconds.:huh: I'm just about to screw it and load my type IVs to clear him, when he finally gives up after 45 minutes. Fortunately, the other escorts are gone back to the convoy too (at one point, 3 were hunting me). My conning tower is badly damaged, no periscopes left, so I'm happy to be alive. I limp to a milche-cow for new optics.

3- Back in the game, but now without type IVs. Which will prove fatal. I find and attack a convoy in the midst of a terrible storm. Perfect! I nail four ships, then head down deep and fast (as always, settling at around 220M). I then get pinged. Deploying decoys isn't working well, I end up with 3 of 6 escorts again hunting me. A fan-shaped deployment at 30 degree intervals, 4 decoys, then turning back into the middle of them, actually works once they are all on the other side of them. After a brief burst of speed (~15 seconds), I coast free and clear. Two return to the convoy, but no, the other one detects me again. I'm creeping at 2 knots, 220M beneath the sea, behind a screen of decoys, in 15knot, stormy weather. :roll:

Ping, ping, ping. I'm trying everything. Eventually, I get nailed and start taking on water. I see some of the escorts starting to return to my position. Low on decoys, I can't take any more of this, especially not from a pack of 3. I rise to the surface, getting hit on the way up, damaging my forward battery. I managed to fire a quick shot at the lone escort that runs safely under his ship. :damn: Either I forgot to set it to magnetic, or it was a dud (type III, so unlikely). Then I get blown out of the water by his attack run. :down: :damn: On the plus side, I finished with 90K for the total cruise, but dead men can't brag.

Penetrating the convoy was as easy as ever. Even easier actually, as either their radar doesn't detect you before you detect it, or they don't respond to it at long ranges. So you get a really nice, early, on-the-surface account of how the escorts are laid out, which makes your ambush choice much easier. But once alerted, this improved sonar is absolutely lethal. My only possible suggestion now is to blow up the escorts, then dive. Maybe an all-out decoy deception could work, I'll try that too, but even if it works, that means only one convoy per patrol.

I understand that this lethality is (mostly) realistic, but it really sucks the wind out of your sails and radically alters the gameplay. Convoys are henceforth verboten without good anti-escort torps at the ready (meaning fewer anti-merchant torps can be fired, as the IVs and Vs need to be loaded and ready to use). And after I reload and finish this cruise, I think I'll ask for a transfer to a Type VII-41/42 in Norway while waiting for the XXI. Either that, or I'm taking my boat the hell away from convoys, no matter what! Maybe the American convoys will be easier to beat, but as is realistic, the war just became a LOT more suicidal. :nope:

Historically, some have chastised Donitz for sending his knowingly men to their deaths. I understand the strategic importance of maintaining the offensive, but I can also appreciate how some of the Kalheuns must have felt that they were being wasted on suicidal missions that had no hope of achieving anything beyond tying up resources for an imminent invasion. Donitz should've been in on the plot to nuke the nut and ended it for his men. I don't mean to turn this into a political arm-chair thread, just to point out that it sheds a lot of light on the relative futility of the later stages of the U-Boat war.

[Contact]

Next time try to deal with escorts first no matter what :up: If I will be lucky to stay afloat till acustic torps becomes available my highest-priority will be set on sinking escorts. :arrgh!:

[irish1958]

Go Deep, go silent.
(and hope the bastards miss! :shifty::shifty::shifty:

[Chisum]

After resumed a backup I have finally survived.
The tactic was simple: attack them by front and firing only acoustic torpedos against the hunters.
By this way I sunk 7 of the 10 hunters.
That lets me firing in the convoy.
After that, go depth(180m) and silent, let pass the convoy and wait the night before surfaced.

But now I have an other problem to survive: the air attacks !!
Damned...
I'm in SE of Rockall Bank in Oct 1944 and it's not possible to push up schnorkel.
Planes comes quickly...
And there is never night...
Need a very bad wheather condition but it's not the case...
I was attacked often and it's a luck to be alive yet.
Radar out, radio out...

Know you a tactic to escape ??

[Contact]

strategic use of decoys...

What i have done in the past is launch decoys in the following manner.

While diving after the initial attack start a 270 degree turn, release a decoy every 45 degrees of heading change

lets assume you start at 000 degrees

here is the procedure

order a depth of 220 meters
start a right turn
rig for silent running
at heading 045 - launch decoy
at heading 090 - launch decoy
at heading 135 - launch decoy
at heading 180 - launch decoy
at heading 225 - launch decoy
at heading 270 - launch decoy - stop turn - continue dive to about 220 meters

this will create a descending spiral of decoys... the destroyers will be receiving seven echo returns when they ping... 6 decoys and 1 u-boat. this forces them to decide which return is the actual u-boat and then attack it... they have a 1 in 7 chance of selecting the right target... hopefully the selected a decoy instead of your boat.

sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right.

never increasing speed never surfacing or never securing from silent running until you are sure you have escaped.

the problem with this strategy is you use up pretty much all of your decoys in the process, but you can refit at a supply ship.

Yes but you forgot to mention that with every use of a bold attracts extra DD to investigate a scene, if used near the convoy (crazy laugh) :lol:

[Red Heat]

Certainly not, I use often the backup lol !
:lol:

But sorry, I'm in love with the IX/D2.
She have more torpedos and I don't want change.
It not means that I don't like the type VII/C 41, very fast effectively, but I prefer the U-178 who finish the war at Bordeaux.

You can understand now why I use the backup: it's an Historical question, U-178 CAN NOT be sunk !
:p

But i real admire your courage and strenght to finnish the war using the IXD2! :arrgh!:
Go Go U-178... :D

[sonar_PL]

What a miracle so Your sub has not been crushed? 30% hull? On 250m? Ha ha ha. Impossible on not cheated game. Very funny. Is this another depth cheat files? :shifty:

Can I sing you something? Something like.....

Angelic procession let your soul adopt...

crackle... crackle...
boom!
:dead:

[gAiNiAc]

I know it's a suicide to attack a convoy in 1944 but as is my duty, I try anyway.
But...
But when we fight against a weapon devastating like this on the picture, can you tell me how can we survive ?

:cry:

The first attack...



...is fatal.


How fast were you going?

[sonar_PL]

No chances. Blowing ballast is to slow. Pressure crush his u-boat.

[Hartmann]

Attack a convoy in 1944 ?? it´s not a madness, it´s a suicide. :dead: and using a IXD boat... :nope:

The only way is using long range firing and stay very deep and silent, but is not easy because the allied sonar and asdic is very advanced in this time.

With this large boats the best is go to caribbean, africa or india , where the allied air cover is not very dense and you can find some opportunity target.

if you want convoy battles in the atlantic and have a chance to survive you have to use a VII boat with snorkel and radar detectors.

if you want a bit of "cheat" another possibility is use a XXI in summer 1944.
this is a huge difference and you will have a lot more chances.

[meduza]

if you want a bit of "cheat" another possibility is use a XXI in summer 1944.
this is a huge difference and you will have a lot more chances. Even with XXI it is extremely difficult to get within a firing range of an electric torpedo. At least the XXI has enough speed to allow escape if the attack goes wrong. :D

I'm in my probably last patrol (April 30th '45) and I plan to take a bunch of long range steam torpedoes for convoy attacks.

[Jimbuna]

In a XXI I prefer the Falke....then a quick getaway.

[rifleman13]

In a XXI I prefer the Falke....then a quick getaway.
Or a spread of FaTs and LuTs in a convoy to stir up the nest.:arrgh!:

In one patrol they really nearly crashed into one another.:rotfl:
This patrol I died! :lol: :damn: :dead:

[jpm1]

no comment