Night surface attacks - can they be done?

[yairiny]

Hi,

I was reading through the tactics manual posted on this forum and read about conducting night surface attacks. My question is, does the sim allow this? Are the difficulty of spotting the sub at night, combined with bad weather simulated in such a manner as to allow night surface attacks?

Also, are any of you using night surface attacks? Can you post your tactics? How close you get, what speeds, etc?

Thanks very much!

[Mihajlo]

They do make you harder to detect, i prefer attacking convoys at night due to easier surfacing and attacking.

[John Channing]

Hi,

I was reading through the tactics manual posted on this forum and read about conducting night surface attacks. My question is, does the sim allow this? Are the difficulty of spotting the sub at night, combined with bad weather simulated in such a manner as to allow night surface attacks?

Also, are any of you using night surface attacks? Can you post your tactics? How close you get, what speeds, etc?

Thanks very much!

Keep your speed slow, keep the target between the moon and yourself (or preferably attack on cloudy or moonless nights), keep your nose pointed at the target and shoot at around 1500 yds (1350 m). Also the worse the weather, the better your chances of remaining undetected.

JCC

[Rockin Robbins]

OOOOOOOO yeah! Even with the cursed TMO I have pulled off surface attacks. Nothing is guaranteed though. The first requirement is that there be no escort on the side you're attacking. One ahead and one tailing is fine.

Once I get within 5000 yards of the convoy, I flood down to run on electrics. Your depth should be about 32'. You take her down by increments until the diesels shut off and you're there. Even before you flood down, do not exceed 10 knots during the approach! Once you go to decks awash, you cannot exceed 10 knots anyway.

Approach from well ahead and point toward the nearest escort. This will result in your approach being a gentle curve, not a straight line. ID your targets, even if you're doing a Dick O'Kane attack, which I recommed because if its greater accuracy. You will have to shoot from somewhat extreme range in TMO. If you have a nice juicy tanker or other large size target, you can shoot from 3000 yards and about guarantee a hit.

During the approach, remember that these escords do Crazy Ivans all the time. They don't just hold their position, they wander around. If he makes a move toward you, watch his speed. If he accellerates to 30 knots and stays pointed at you for longer than 20 seconds, you've been detected. Otherwise cool it. If this were easy everybody would do it.

Decide at what point your nerve is officially toast, make a committment and shoot then. If you're detected, your quarry will immediately begin taking evasive action. At extreme range that means no shots. Better to take a couple of shots from 2500 or 3000 yards than no shots from 1500. I've never got to 1500 yards in Trigger Maru.

Of course, if you're doing a Dick O'Kane, just before you fire change course to 90º from the track. This will only be a correction of a few degrees, but at this range, I'll take every advantage I can get. Make SURE your torpedoes are set for fast speed. See the sentence before last. Unless seas are very rough, use magnetic pistols later in the war.

Resist the temptation ot target multiple ships unless you have lots of torpedoes. You'll get your multiple targets right after the booms. They're called escorts, and they'll be mad. Get the heck out of there, do another end around to the other side of the convoy and do it again. If everything goes as planned, all the escorts will still be on the side of your original attack looking for you.

That's it. No Rambo sink 'em all in one approach tactics. I'm a boring, conservative submariner. I'm also a living, breathing submariner. Wonder if there's a connection?:arrgh!:

[DS]

RR covered it nicely. :yep:

The lessons I learned were to do this only on dark nights, not to get greedy on range (I shoot from 2200 to 2500 yards), keep your nose pointed at the nearest ship (should be your target) and keep the speed slow. In fact, after I shoot, I put the boat into back 1/3 to bleed off any drift and order "all stop" once I hit 0 knots. This is so that I don't drift into visual range of the target before my torpedoes strike home, otherwise, he may evade befoer they hit, causing them to miss.

And yes, avoid destroyers. If they are in a flanking position on your side, it's pretty well a NO GO.

[LeeVanSpliff]

Yeah, thanks guys! I've been wondering about doing surface attacks, but I always chickened out and submerged (I don't load the game just because I miss a few torpedoes or have my boat sunk so I'm rather protective of it .... no room for trial and error)!

During the approach, remember that these escords do Crazy Ivans all the time.
They do my IL2 character "Ivan 'Crazy Ivan' Fedko"? I find that offensive! :p

[yairiny]

Thanks for the tip guys, I guess it's worth practicing and learning how to do it. I just so happen to have a save just after discovering a lone merchant at night, guess I've got some practicing to do :) If only i wasn't so tired the next day at work :lol:

[Peto]

I've been practicing Night Surface Attacks quite a bit lately. Weather is the major thing to consider when doing this although I'm not afraid to attack in 0 Wind conditions either. The major things to consider--along with the Great advice already given--is as follows. Consider that I'm currently using RFB.

1. Weather: Rough is better. With 15 MPS winds I am able to get in to ~1000 yards with no problem. With 0 MPS winds, I'll stay out ~1500+. But I never shoot outside of 2000 of the nearest column although one of my targets may be @ ~3000 in another column. I try to make it so my torpedo run is 1500 yards or less.

2. AOB: As already stated, keep your profile small--show them only your bow or stern. Sitting still and allowing them to come into range of your stern tubes has the benefit of you being able to escape more easily on the surface after your attack.

3. Escort Disposition: I don't care how many escorts there. I once successfully night surface attacked a cruiser task force with 6 destroyers. How? Patience (Capital P). If you Parallel the formation at a safe distance (weather dictates wahat that is) the flanking escort will eventually leave for a while. When he pulls out, I move in. On the task force I moved in at Standard speed to 1500 yards and fired--slowed to 1/3 and dove (no need to press my luck with those 8" guns so close :yep:). Weather was 8 MPS.

4. Your approach is critical. For the best chance of success, come in from the front of the formation with the AOB of the nearest ship in the convoy at 30-45 degrees. Slow is better. The other night I tried coming in from directly astern of a convoy--looking to try an up-the-kilt shot on a tanker. (Dawn was coming--no time to do an end-around in my S-Class). I had my target within 1700--was planning on shooting at 1500. There was a DD 2500 yards to my left and one 3500 yards to my right. I was showing both of them my broadside and the weather was 1 MPS/excellent visibility. Just as I was about to shoot, the escort on my left parted my hair with a 5" round :o so, being resourceful, I decided to dive. The fact remains--I "almost" pulled it off!

5. THE UNKNOWN: What kind of crew is on that nearest escort? If he's a Veteran or Elite it'll be much harder. But maybe he isn't... Hmmm. That's what I affectionately call the Pucker Factor.

6. Practice: Set up a couple scenarios with your mission editor so you know all the factors listed above. Then try different approaches to find out what you can do. And you're not risking your career this way. With Practice and Patience, you'll be amazed at what you can get away with on the surface :hmm:.

Hope this Helps. And YES!!! It can be done!

Peto

[Frying Tiger]

In the USS Salmon I snuck into Balikpapan harbor on a vile night, pouring rain, 15mps winds... I couldn't get a target lock outside of 400 yards through the TBT. I sank a merchant and a tanker at anchor (poetry!) and on the way out got a "ship spotted!" call... less than 500 yards away from me, crossing my bow, was the guard destroyer... I turned stern to and tried to shoot at him, but couldn't make a decent speed guess... while I was trying to set up the shot, I lost sight of him. Since he had passed me and was going away, I hightailed it the other way and made my escape. Lots of fun! (this was with TMO, too!)

[Rockin Robbins]

I turned stern to and tried to shoot at him, but couldn't make a decent speed guess... while I was trying to set up the shot, I lost sight of him. Since he had passed me and was going away, I hightailed it the other way and made my escape. Lots of fun! (this was with TMO, too!)

At least you didn't do MY stupid pet trick and try to take a sonar only shot at a DD. He was out of visual range in the rain. I pinged him and he charged at 30 knots. Blasted by me in seconds at about 100 yards dropping charges. He was only about 500 yards away when I pinged.

There are those who say the enemy can't hear you ping them in the game. I have a nasty pair of underwear from about September of last year that says otherwise.:oops:

So, question: did that parameter change with updates? I was using TM and I know they can charge you and accurately depth charge you without pinging you at all, but it sure seemed like he heard me pinging and thought it was the dinner bell.:ping:

[Orion2012]

I turned stern to and tried to shoot at him, but couldn't make a decent speed guess... while I was trying to set up the shot, I lost sight of him. Since he had passed me and was going away, I hightailed it the other way and made my escape. Lots of fun! (this was with TMO, too!)
At least you didn't do MY stupid pet trick and try to take a sonar only shot at a DD. He was out of visual range in the rain. I pinged him and he charged at 30 knots. Blasted by me in seconds at about 100 yards dropping charges. He was only about 500 yards away when I pinged.

There are those who say the enemy can't hear you ping them in the game. I have a nasty pair of underwear from about September of last year that says otherwise.:oops:

So, question: did that parameter change with updates? I was using TM and I know they can charge you and accurately depth charge you without pinging you at all, but it sure seemed like he heard me pinging and thought it was the dinner bell.:ping:

Interesting, on my last patrol, I too encountered a T3 in heavy wind and rain, so figuring no harm in pinging a merchant ship....

After the ping my hydro lit up like a chain smoker in heavy traffic (<--ME)
yet they didnt charge, I mean they did, but not once did I hear them attempting to ping me, and I'm almost postivive he would have unloaded with the naval gun had he had a visual.