American propaganda?

[UnderseaLcpl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJRthpxDM10

Okay, this video is probably fairly old by now but I just saw it for the first time after a co-worker recommended it to me.

Watching it, I realized that I may be susceptible to the same propaganda that I can hardly believe people bought in past generations. I mean, for God's sake, just look at it. The first time I saw it it moved me. I wanted to believe all the things they said. I want to help people and be a part of a symbol of hope. It actually made me want to re-enlist!

After I saw it a few times I realized that it is not a good depiction of the U.S. military. Certainly, there are heroes among us but the vast majority of us are not heroes. Most of us are people just doing what we have to do. But it is so hard to not imagine that we are following in the footsteps of those brave but terrified militiamen depicted in the video.

Who doesn't want to be that ideal, self-sacrificing savior of freedom? I thought it was a masterpiece and I don't even like 3 Doors Down.

I would like perspectives from anyone here, but especially veterans. Does this seem like a fitting tribute to our fighting and fallen men and women, or does it seem like a tool to get more to fight and fall? As silly as it sounds I am beside myself over this dumb song.

I don't even know why I'm making such a big deal out of this, but it seems wrong, somehow. A little rational discussion to get my feet back on the ground, please.

[Platapus]

Defining what is and what is not propaganda is difficult. Using the base definition of the word Propaganda we have

"The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause."

In this light propaganda can be both positive and negative in nature.

However, there is an emotional link to the word propaganda which has a negative connotation. Propaganda emotionally means the spreading of a message which the specific receiver does not agree with.

This is why some emotional definitions of propaganda use the word "lies". As in propaganda contains inaccurate information (lying) about xxx. This is especially common when the propaganda under consideration is used against us or our friends. I don't accept this definition as it is too dependent on perception. One person's lies are another person's truth depending on their perception.

This is why propaganda is most often used to describe viewpoints we disagree with or don't believe.

Does the United States use propaganda? Sure do. It is a recognized tool for influencing the population. Just like a salespitch, we emphasize the "badness" of our opponent while emphasizing the "goodness" of ourselves.

In the strictest definition of the word Propaganda I would agree that the video is propaganda. However in the more common emotional use of the word, I do not think it qualifies.

For one thing propaganda needs to come from some source perceived to have authority or knowledge of the topic. This is usually, but not exclusively, represented by the government. The video does not seem to come from the government and represents the opinions of the performers. Opinions of "ordinary" people seldom is called propaganda.

Was this video a smarmy sales pitch? Sure was.

Does it "qualify" as propaganda under the strict definition of propaganda? Yes it does.

Would this video be emotionally considered propaganda? Depends on your perception. Many Americans would say "No this is truth". Others would say it was a distortion of truth. Who you agree with depends on your position on the topic.

My opinion? If this video is propaganda, it is pretty harmless propaganda. It is a feel good song full of emotional scenes and not a intended to be a documentary of factual analysis.

[Schroeder]

I think the song is rather harmless. Yes, it might qualify as propaganda (if a German band had made that clip it would have surely been called propaganda;)) but if you want some really dangerous propaganda then have a look at the military channel.
They are stretching the truth sometimes beyond good and evil just to make American soldiers/gear to look like the best in the world.
That's what is dangerous. Fueling the audience with a false feeling of absolute superiority (just watch the "Dogfights" shows for example).

Don't get me wrong, American equipment is among the best in the world but sometimes not the best. And telling the people all the time that they are the greatest here and the greatest there by sometimes using really weird arguments for why the American stuff is better than that of the rest of the world is far more dangerous in my opinion.:dead:

*taking cover*

[joea]

Propaganda =/ lies. Well it is a mix of selected perceived truth and lies sometimes yes. Very often the clever propaganda chooses what to leave out as well as what to put in.

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl:

Some time ago I saw that in a theater and thought it was so great that I found it and started a thread here. But everybody is right: it is propaganda, it is a sales pitch, it is a recruiting video. Just like the one I saw back in the fifties, showing an F-104 screaming through the clouds while a stirring song played with the lyrics:
"They took the blue from the skies and the pretty girls' eyes, and a touch of Old Glory too;
And they gave them to the men who proudly wear the U.S. Air Force Blue."

"The Navy. More than just a job - it's an Adventure!"

Even the 'official' songs of the different services are designed to make civilians want to join up.

Or compare the German 'propaganda' posters and British and American 'recruiting' posters from WWII: are they all that different? No. It's just the way the game is played.

[Skybird]

Compare army spots as had been broadcasted from the mid-90s to 2000, 2001, and compare them to the asthetic introduced and visualised by Leni Riefenstahl. It says so much, sicne the parrallels are so stunning. That the movie Starship Troopers was commercially not too succesful in north America (at least I read that), probably comes from that Verhoeven made heavy mockery of this visual symbolism and heroic transfiguration. for simple minds believing in such pictures and poses, the movie must have equalled a personal attack.

[Sailor Steve]

And those very things made me like that movie more than most did. I found the obvious propopagandizing wonderfully funny. That, and Neil Patrick Harris ('Doogie Howser') as a futuristic nazi. Also Dina Meyer, but I won't go into detail here...

[Frame57]

Propaganda is everywhere. from the toothpaste and viagra commercials, to political and military ads etc.. etc... The focus is to play on the masses or Individual desires or fansatsies. The majority of professionals who get payed big conultant bucks from the people who make propaganda, are the head shrinkers. The basic concept to motivate people will always come from two things: Pleasure or fear. The miltary ads never showed me that I would be cleaning the toilets and messcooking for the first 90 days when I reported to my first fast attack. They never show times when you are up for a straight 48 hours because the hydraulic system failed and you are stuck without steering and diving ability. They only show the glory of something. But not the reality.

[AntEater]

Funny is in the 1950s they appealed to male instincts while today they appeal to selfless sacrifice? And I thought we lived in a materalistic time!
:D
Ok, I was never a specific three doors down fan, but they were one the better side of the usual radio junk. Not anymore....

[Blacklight]

Compare army spots as had been broadcasted from the mid-90s to 2000, 2001, and compare them to the asthetic introduced and visualised by Leni Riefenstahl. It says so much, sicne the parrallels are so stunning. That the movie Starship Troopers was commercially not too succesful in north America (at least I read that), probably comes from that Verhoeven made heavy mockery of this visual symbolism and heroic transfiguration. for simple minds believing in such pictures and poses, the movie must have equalled a personal attack.
__________________


The reason that movie didn't do well was because it was utter crap. They took a CLASSIC and fantastic science fiction book written by a great author, just read the description on the back of the book without actually READING the book, and they wrote the script from that.
Starship Troopers was one of my favorite sci-fi books when I was younger and to see the way they raped this imaginitive piece of literature astounded me. The story wasn't the same at all and they even changed the sex of one of the characters to fit in a naked shower scene to show some T & A. :nope:
It would have been nice if they actually took the time to.... maybe... READ the book before making the movie out of it. That should be a REQUIREMENT if you're going to make a movie out of a famous book ! :stare:

[Platapus]

It would have been nice if they actually took the time to.... maybe... READ the book before making the movie out of it. That should be a REQUIREMENT if you're going to make a movie out of a famous book ! :stare:


One of my fantasies, well at least ones I can discuss on a public board, would be that if I won a mega lottery I would like to open up a movie production company where we would take classic pieces of literature and faithfully portray them on the screen as the author intended. I too am sick of movies bastardizing books.

Ok that fantasy will never happen, but at least it is more noble than my fantasy involving Sandra Bullock, a can of 10W40 oil and a handful of granola...

Oh did I actually type that or was I just thinkin that? :oops:

[UnderseaLcpl]

1) One of my fantasies, well at least ones I can discuss on a public board, would be that if I won a mega lottery I would like to open up a movie production company where we would take classic pieces of literature and faithfully portray them on the screen as the author intended. I too am sick of movies bastardizing books.

2)Ok that fantasy will never happen, but at least it is more noble than my fantasy involving Sandra Bullock, a can of 10W40 oil and a handful of granola...

Oh did I actually type that or was I just thinkin that? :oops:

1) Maybe not such a fantasy. If you made movies that were relatively faithful to good books or, dare I dream, historical events I would probably see them 3 million times apiece. Not a bad start at the box office, eh?

2) That IS a fantasy. I would never let you near MY Sandra:rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

It would have been nice if they actually took the time to.... maybe... READ the book before making the movie out of it. That should be a REQUIREMENT if you're going to make a movie out of a famous book ! :stare:
Tell that to the producers of every version of The Man In The Iron Mask ever made. Not one movie exists that actually follows the grim, dark story in the book.

It would be nice to see movies made from the books, but it only happens rarely.

[Enigma]

This Wiki snippet about Top Gun kinda goes along with our conversation....(bold emphasis mine)

Top Gun went on to break further records in the then still-developing home video market. Backed by a massive $8 million marketing campaign including a Top Gun-themed Pepsi commercial (http://promomagazine.com/entertainmentmarketing/marketing_high_flyer/), the advanced demand was such that the film became the best-selling videocassette in the industry's history on pre-orders alone. Top Gun's home video success was again reflected by strong DVD sales, which were furthered by a special-edition release in 2004. Bomber jacket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomber_jacket) sales increased and Ray-Ban Aviator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray-Ban_Aviator) sunglasses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunglasses) jumped 40%, due to their use by characters in the film.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_gun#cite_note-rayban-12) The movie also boosted Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force) and Navy recruitment. This was evident in the fact that the Navy used its success by having recruitment booths in some theaters to lure enthusiastic patrons.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_gun#cite_note-13) Despite the fact that they used the film as an informal marketing tool, real Navy fighter pilots that saw it ridiculed the film, citing numerous inaccuracies. Several said that if they had done any of the things that the main character did, e.g., refusing to land when low on fuel, flying at high speed by air control towers, they would have faced a court-martial and prison time and at the very least, probably would have been kicked out of the Navy.

[Frame57]

Sandra Bullock I get. The oil might I suggest a water soluble one. GRANOLA???:hmm: