View Full Version : Bridge lookouts need retraining?
New to this forum, and to the game. Lurked around a bit and decided that it is definetely a good port to base my aging hull! :lol: Not a complete stranger to subsims (a lot of CAOTD and SHII hours played, completely missed out on SHIII though! :huh:). Now sailing SH4 and enjoying it (besides some shortcomings eh!)
Game Version: SH4 1.4 dry! (funny for a subsim eh!) no 1.5 addon or mods (yet).
Current status: Career going into Sept 1942. Reloading when my internal pressure equalises to the surrounding 500 meters of water! :dead: Want to have a feel of the whole time span of the game.
Settings: Automated target recon, and torpedo firing, all other realistic (that would be an ~85% overall realism level[?]).
Game set up: Low end due to graphics issues (card issue?).
Question/Rant: Bridge outlook spots a plane. Shouts "Aircraft spotted" and no other info (a quadrant maybe or a "high-low" altitude hint?). How would that go in a RL situation?
-[Lookout]: AIRCRAFT SPOTTED!
-[Captain]: Care to elaborate?
-[Lookout]: Uhmm... No sir. I'm here for the announcement only!
Is this remedied somehow in the stock game or in any mod?
Arclight
07-22-08, 06:22 AM
Welcome aboard :up:
Don't know about getting a bearing through voice, but isn't there a bearing in the message box? Something like "Aircraft spotted! Bearing 185, long range.".
Sailor Steve
07-22-08, 07:18 AM
WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:
Can't say for SH4 - still having teething problems - but SH3 lookouts would call it out with no info, and then the watch officer would give a full report. Surprised SH4 isn't similar.
Welcome aboard :up:
Don't know about getting a bearing through voice, but isn't there a bearing in the message box? Something like "Aircraft spotted! Bearing 185, long range.".
You usually get an initial radar contact ("single conatct...") and a bearing. This is OK! It allows you time to dive, if you choose (I usually do) or to start maneuring for a possible AA shoot out. But planes are fast moving criters and sometime they come from a different angle then initially reported. Or at least this is my impression.
And BTW I didn't mean the additional info to be "audio". A text msg would be fine.
The problem, in my case, is attenuated by some graphic tradeoffs I had to do so I can play the game. My contrast isn't so good and I wouldn't spot a Zero if it hoverd over the bridge to deliver mail (of course it usually delivers other stuff!)
Am I missing something here?
Te Kaha
07-22-08, 01:58 PM
Today, I had my first encounter with an enemy plane (1st career, 4th patrol) near the Marianas.
The lookouts reported "Plane spotted" both in text message and in voice. Both gave no bearings nothing.
And my SDa-Radar detected the plane, but that thing must have a blind spot close to the sub, as the marking on the nav-map disappeared when the plane came closer - to reappear again afterwrds further out.
I managed to shoot about 40 rounds after that plane when it was already moving away. I received 2 percent hull damage, luckily the plane just strafed my sub.
Orion2012
07-22-08, 03:55 PM
My contrast isn't so good and I wouldn't spot a Zero if it hoverd over the bridge to deliver mail (of course it usually delivers other stuff!)
:rotfl: Isn't that the truth!!
I know you stated you play stock, but with TMO1.5.2 there is a "nearest visual contact" button that will repeat the contact info be it ship, air or sub, as long as you have a visual. It also gives a distance in feet, which is a little unrealistic but very handy for the deck gun as its easily converted into yards.
Barkhorn1x
07-22-08, 04:24 PM
And my SDa-Radar detected the plane, but that thing must have a blind spot close to the sub, as the marking on the nav-map disappeared when the plane came closer - to reappear again afterwrds further out.
Assume you are using TMO on v 1.5 w/ map updates set to on?
I also noticed that the plane contact icon disappears close to the ship. Don't know why that would be the case as the deck crew should basically have a constant visual - yes?
Orion2012
07-22-08, 04:30 PM
And my SDa-Radar detected the plane, but that thing must have a blind spot close to the sub, as the marking on the nav-map disappeared when the plane came closer - to reappear again afterwrds further out.
Assume you are using TMO on v 1.5 w/ map updates set to on?
I also noticed that the plane contact icon disappears close to the ship. Don't know why that would be the case as the deck crew should basically have a constant visual - yes?
I wonder if has somthing to do with the dashline.dds or contline.dds, as they are what add the trails to the contacts, I removed them from the tmo install to keep my "tails" on my contacts and whenever my radar contact disappears, its ALWAYS because the small red line for a visual contact has appeared.
Te Kaha
07-22-08, 05:05 PM
Assume you are using TMO on v 1.5 w/ map updates set to on?
I also noticed that the plane contact icon disappears close to the ship. Don't know why that would be the case as the deck crew should basically have a constant visual - yes?
Err no, I use RFB together with RSRD, map updates are on.
Orion2012
07-22-08, 06:50 PM
Assume you are using TMO on v 1.5 w/ map updates set to on?
I also noticed that the plane contact icon disappears close to the ship. Don't know why that would be the case as the deck crew should basically have a constant visual - yes?
Err no, I use RFB together with RSRD, map updates are on.
Do you have the "tails on your contacts that indicate bearing?? If not then it may be the fact that the Contline.dds and the dashline.dds have been modified.
Te Kaha
07-23-08, 04:00 AM
I got no tails on any contact, now "visual redline", and planes also show up as black square on the nav-map, same as ships of all nationalities.
I like it this way, makes it more interesting to me. Once I chased a lone steamer, was ready to attack - only to see through the binoculars that it's a Dutch ship.
That I have lost the track on planes when too close for radar is prize well worth - as I take it, no crewman would bother to draw marks on a map while above there's an airplane atacking - fight or flee, that's the choice.
Barkhorn1x
07-23-08, 11:17 AM
Assume you are using TMO on v 1.5 w/ map updates set to on?
I also noticed that the plane contact icon disappears close to the ship. Don't know why that would be the case as the deck crew should basically have a constant visual - yes?
Err no, I use RFB together with RSRD, map updates are on.
OK - TMO works the same way. And I take your point regarding a/c spotting.
When I started this thread I was in the middle of my 5th mission. In the return trip and as I approached Midway my lookouts inform me that an a/c is spotted at a certain bearing. What? A bearing from my lookouts? Interesting! Looked through the binoculars, immediately spotted the a/c (actually a formation of two) flying relatively low and in a non aggressive manner so probably our guys. They made a smooth and wide turn "avoiding" my sub (or so it seemed) and went their way. For a (almost extatic) moment I thought that my initial prayer (ehm...I mean post) was answered! Yes! And the a/c was not a/c but Peter Pan and for Xmas I want a ... Or maybe my post somehow cured the game?:huh:
But then I decided to do it the adult way!:hmm:
So I formulated a "theory": You get detailed spotting on friendly a/c to avoid friendly fire!
And then I started bitching: Pfff! It should be the other way around (detailed spotting for enemy a/c and "general" info for friendies), I have no altitude indication, reinstate Chausesku in UbiRomania etc.
Anyway on to my 6th patrol.
Cruising on my way towards East China Sea. Lookouts call out a sighting (a/c) and bearing. I don't give my attention due to my newly found theory and the fact that a US Task Force had passed through the area some hours ago (so probably an air patrol from the carrier?). Nothing happend and my theory seemed OK.
Two days later, the same series of events but this time I'm two days closer to enemy waters and our Task Force is two days farther and I'm a bit more cautious. So I start observing the a/c through the binoculars and ... it turns to attack! CRASH DIVE, TURN to minimze profile... I do the "dance", etc. Escaped with no damage but it was a close call.
So what happened to my theory?!?:o
I should've known better than than to base a "theory" on limited data!:damn:
Now what is far more possible is that detailed spotting from lookouts is a result of increasing experience! A more general issue is when experience related effects come into play. I had the notion that experience gained in a patrol affect performance from the next patrol and onwards, but it seems to be a Real Time thingy! ( Played too many turn based games and my brain is accustomed to leapfroging rather then continuous opoerations, it needs a 10 minute pause for every 5 seconds of actual thinking! :88))
Above all never but NEVER FORMULATE A THEORY AT 03:00 (a.m. eh!).
LeeVanSpliff
07-30-08, 04:52 AM
So what happened to my theory?!?:o
It died and became a very cheap funeral!
I'm nearly sure I've gotten a "friendly aircraft" heads-up from my watch crew. I've noticed that friendly units (like the auxiliary cruiser or observation aircrafts in 1.5) lower the time compression to 8x ... when it drops down to 1x I can almost be sure that there is something hostile in the area that my lazy watch crew didn't pick up.
So what happened to my theory?!?:o
It died and became a very cheap funeral!
Indeed! Can you be a bit gentler pllllllease! :cry:
I'm nearly sure I've gotten a "friendly aircraft" heads-up from my watch crew. I've noticed that friendly units (like the auxiliary cruiser or observation aircrafts in 1.5) lower the time compression to 8x ... when it drops down to 1x I can almost be sure that there is something hostile in the area that my lazy watch crew didn't pick up.
Interesting how much of the player's side is "played" by the AI in these type of sims eh!? The Human vs AI is actually... what? 30%Human+70%AI vs 100% AI?
And the Human ratio is falling all the time!:hmm:
In the end we'll be buying the games and the computer will be playing them on his own!!!:huh: :o :damn:
Seminole
07-30-08, 08:14 AM
Does it really matter what the bearing is?
They spell bad news generally . ...no matter the direction....provided they see you.
Though as I have said before a very few of them actually are able to spot my boat considering the number of flybys. I don't dive nearly as much as I did at first.
SteamWake
07-30-08, 08:44 AM
No the lookouts dont call out vectors.
If you have map updates turned on you can get a general idea of the angle, but as others have said its not really going to help much by the time you get a 'visual' on them there already on their attack run. Also there probably calling out their buddies.
Typically... espically later in the war my boat will spend most of the daylight hours submerged to avoid these pests.
LeeVanSpliff
07-31-08, 04:07 AM
Interesting how much of the player's side is "played" by the AI in these type of sims eh!? The Human vs AI is actually... what? 30%Human+70%AI vs 100% AI?
And the Human ratio is falling all the time!:hmm:
In the end we'll be buying the games and the computer will be playing them on his own!!!:huh: :o :damn:
Look on the bright side: By then we'll have graphics in better resolution than reality to look at! :o
...
Look on the bright side: By then we'll have graphics in better resolution than reality to look at! :o
And after that will hop in the machine never to leave its digital coziness again! :D Please don't pull the plug! :rotfl:
Pfff! It should be the other way around (detailed spotting for enemy a/c and "general" info for friendies), I have no altitude indication, reinstate Chausesku in UbiRomania etc.
While I agree that the behavior of the watch is less than optimal, I don't think that's sufficient cause for wishing Ceauşescu on anyone.
Just a thought.
SteamWake
07-31-08, 10:34 AM
No the lookouts dont call out vectors.
I have to retract this because last night I noticed my watch crew calling out "Aircraft spotted bering 310" whatever... Two out of the four watch crew have the 'watch' training.
Still to me it means... "Oh crap suns up already?! Crash Dive !"
On a side note I got a couple of aircraft spotted calls, checked my watch and it was damn near midnight. Pitch black out no moon. Just to see what would happen I stayed surfaced and the planes just kept on going.
Rabul is a very busy place this time of year :)
While I agree that the behavior of the watch is less than optimal, I don't think that's sufficient cause for wishing Ceauşescu on anyone.
Just a thought.
Humor (or atempting it ) was, is and always will be a good way to deal with deamons. Another one is shooting them...
BTW I'd never "wish" an oppressor to anyone! Not at all the spirit of my post!
I wonder if Romanians never joke (or joked) about Ceauşescu...
Just a thought.
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