they got Karadizc!

[Skybird]

Just in. Check your news sources. I saw it on BBC.

[VipertheSniper]

Finally, was about time. I already thought they would never get him. Wonder when they'll get Ratko Mladic.

[mrbeast]

Good news!:up:

Its been a long time coming though.

[XabbaRus]

Mladic is a tougher cookie.

There was an interessting article in a UK paper about a town in Serbia where they are and it is an open secret but noone can touch them. The CIA lost 2 US field agents trying to get him..

[Platapus]

on the run for 10 years. They finally got him Good for them:up:

[darius359au]

The pity is he'll get to live out the rest of his life in a nice comfortable UN jail in the Hague instead of some hellhole ,to really pay for his crime's :cry::nope:

[rifleman13]

The pity is he'll get to live out the rest of his life in a nice comfortable UN jail in the Hague instead of some hellhole ,to really pay for his crime's :cry::nope:
Unless some vigilante gets to him first.:dead::arrgh!:

[bookworm_020]

Send him to a jail in Iran! That would be true justice!:smug:

[Skybird]

Could you believe it!? :o

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7519039.stm

Alternative medicine...?

Gandalf-look?

[joea]

Good news anyway, one down hundreds more to go. :roll:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

....Santa? :o

[rifleman13]

....Santa? :o
... of EVIL!:dead: :huh:

[Jimbuna]

Great news!....One less piece of dirt to foul the doorstep of humanity.

[raymond6751]

There are times when the middle ages forms of execution seem to be a great idea. Unfortunately, there are still simpathizers who would help guys like that out.

I guess if Hitler had gone into hiding, he would have found many friends too.

:doh:

[Skybird]

I guess if Hitler had gone into hiding, he would have found many friends too.

:doh:
Not in Germany.

Note that I think all the Nazi warcriminals that got dug out in the years and decades after WWII, and got hunted down by Simon Wiesental and others, did not hide in Germany, but foreign nations, and South America. for the German public, most of their faces were almost unknown. how much more difficult would it had been for Hitler to hide here - and how much more reason he would have had to trust nobody. If he would have tried it, he simply wouldn't have survived it. He would have been slain by some Germans sooner or later.

[Frame57]

When they come to take away your Country, let's see who the next "war criminal" will be!!!:nope:

[baggygreen]

elite?? elitehuntersh3 is that really you??;)

Frame, it was a nasty little war and there were atrocities commited by all the parties involved. BUT this coward was the instigator of some of the largest and nastiest criminal actions of the lot! there can be no denying it. Well done to the intelligence types on stumbling across his tracks and nailing him!

the one thing i dont like about this though is that his arrest is helping serbia in its push to become part of the EU. But thats another matter.

[Morts]

yeah frame57...i can really see how killing 8000 civilians is defending your country:damn: ...not

[Fish]

;) Probable fake:

http://dragandabic.com/

[Diopos]

Not wanting to turn this to a Yugoslavia War thing but think about this. Yugoslavia disintegrated into 7! state entities which all seek to be "reunited" under the auspices of the European Union!!! Sorry guys but finding the bad guy in the Balkans isn't so simple as it seems (and it never was since the collapse of the Ottoman Rule).

[Jimbuna]

Well it's certainly one less bad guy to have to continue looking for.

[Skybird]

Not wanting to turn this to a Yugoslavia War thing but think about this. Yugoslavia disintegrated into 7! state entities which all seek to be "reunited" under the auspices of the European Union!!! Sorry guys but finding the bad guy in the Balkans isn't so simple as it seems (and it never was since the collapse of the Ottoman Rule).
Yugoslavia was a high pressure tank even before the balkan war. tito had no scruples to use one ethnic faction against the other, and supress bioling conflicts with iron fists. To think that Yugoslavia was a peaceful, united national entity were all ethnic factions lived peacefully and friendly side by side would be a great misunderstanding. the face of the place today is much closer to the reality that ever was there - just temporarily supressed and hidden during the "yugoslav years". Winners of it all are the Albanians, and Islam. Price of it is a massive climb of (Albanian-controlled) organised crime sending shockwaves right into europe.

what did one NATO commander admit meanwhile? "We bombed the wrong side". I tend to agree on that, to some part at least. Maybe we should have stayed out of it all together, and just made sure the conflict does not cross their borders. I mean we also do nothing about a guy like mugabe who commited even more serious crimes and has killed evben more people - and we do nothing to remove him, or do counter idslamic nations protecting poor massmurder mugabe for no other reason that officially his camp is Muhammeddan and the victims of his genocide are Christians. so what was spo special about Yugoslavia that we needed to go to the Balkans? They even do not have large oil or gas reserves!

[Diopos]

...
Yugoslavia was a high pressure tank even before the balkan war. tito had no scruples to use one ethnic faction against the other, and supress bioling conflicts with iron fists. To think that Yugoslavia was a peaceful, united national entity were all ethnic factions lived peacefully and friendly side by side would be a great misunderstanding. the face of the place today is much closer to the reality that ever was there - just temporarily supressed and hidden during the "yugoslav years".

Where did I suggest that it was "...a peaceful, united national entity were all ethnic factions lived peacefully and friendly side by side ..."?
On the other hand Tito's Yugoslavia was not in an "isolasionist mode" (as say Albania was) nor was it considered by the west as oppresive as other communist regimes.

Look! Czechoslovakia dissolved without a shot beeing fired! [BTW interesting how many repercussions of WW1 were reversed in the '90s]. Even Belgium is having a rough time but no one is expecting a war to irrupt (I hope!:hmm: ).

If you ever traveled through Yugoslavia (pre-war) you would get a feeling of the differences (at least on a better-off-North compared to a poorer-South basis) and yes maybe Yugoslavia was a "Frankenstein" state resulting from WW1 and yes maybe it had to "go". The way it "went" was disturbing...

[Diopos]

...
so what was spo special about Yugoslavia that we needed to go to the Balkans? They even do not have large oil or gas reserves!

Correct, you don't go dancing in the minefield!:o
But, excuse me for saying so, Germany did just that regarding Slovenia/Croatia in the begining of the crisis (when USA and other Europeans were out of sync with the situation in Yugoslavia - or so it seemed at the time...)

Oil and gas reserves? No
Oil and gas pipelines?Yeeees
Keep that in mind if you ever stumble over a Kossovo and/or FYROM issue.

[Skybird]

...
Yugoslavia was a high pressure tank even before the balkan war. tito had no scruples to use one ethnic faction against the other, and supress bioling conflicts with iron fists. To think that Yugoslavia was a peaceful, united national entity were all ethnic factions lived peacefully and friendly side by side would be a great misunderstanding. the face of the place today is much closer to the reality that ever was there - just temporarily supressed and hidden during the "yugoslav years".

Where did I suggest that it was "...a peaceful, united national entity were all ethnic factions lived peacefully and friendly side by side ..."?
On the other hand Tito's Yugoslavia was not in an "isolasionist mode" (as say Albania was) nor was it considered by the west as oppresive as other communist regimes.

Look! Czechoslovakia dissolved without a shot beeing fired! [BTW interesting how many repercussions of WW1 were reversed in the '90s]. Even Belgium is having a rough time but no one is expecting a war to irrupt (I hope!:hmm: ).

If you ever traveled through Yugoslavia (pre-war) you would get a feeling of the differences (at least on a better-off-North compared to a poorer-South basis) and yes maybe Yugoslavia was a "Frankenstein" state resulting from WW1 and yes maybe it had to "go". The way it "went" was disturbing...
My argument is that the disturbing way in which it went down probably was a result of the internal conflicts that only were supressed in Yugoslavia - but never had been nonexistent. the poetnial for violence always was there - and still is today! -, and when the central power lost in influence, it broke the chains and broke out - helped by the central power trying to copensate for the loss of it's former influence by playing the military card from early on - Slowenja still was lucky, but what came after that, is known today.

[Frame57]

yeah frame57...i can really see how killing 8000 civilians is defending your country:damn: ...not Well, it would seem that the information on CNN is what people adhere to. My relatives who still live in Serbia have a very different story. They are the eyewitnesses to the allegations, so very little has made it to the public on the atrocities of the muslims who bombed and sniped thousands of Serb civilians, took their property and burned their churches. My ancestrors fought in the field of blackbirds hundreds of years ago. This is the same bloodfued/religious war and turf struggle. I think Serbia has the right to defend its soil and people by whatever means from these invaders. Too bad the UN does not see the truth.:nope:

[kurtz]

I do find it richly ironic that all these countires which fought for seperation now want to lose their national identities in a unified europe.

[Frame57]

I feel that the "Globalization" Ideology is at the root of this. Here in America it is called "progressivesness". Individual Countries seem to think that they cannot maintain their status being solo anymore. Perhaps they feel more secure in this. North America is being shuffled this way too. This one reason why our southern borders are being over run and the Government is doing nothing about it. Even though the people have voiced their concerns about this. If things do not change then we too will be a united North American union with Mexico and Canada. The powers that be will fuel this idea and make it sound good for the economic survival of America. That will be how they will suceed in doing this in the future.

[Jimbuna]

Similarly....A large proportion of what was the former Eastern Europe cross our borders via France.

[Frame57]

The situation is out of hand. I spent some time in Wilhelmshaven back in the 80's when I was in the navy. I had a great time and the locals were very nice and understood the Submariner way. We (Crew of SSN-678) embraced the culture and no one tried to vaunt a false superiority complex while in Germany. My high school German came in handy while I was there. A couple who owned a tavern let us call the states and we had to argue with them to accept money for their kind offer. Experiencing and respecting other's culures is what makes things great. But what i see with these droves of illegal immigrants is quite another story. They do not want to learn the language and want to live as though they are still in the "great" country they came from. Britain has this problem as well as France. I cannot imagine why it is being tolerated. Here the ACLU will defend illegals as if they were citizens. Bah! Time for a Warsteiner!

[Skybird]

Just curious, Frame. Are you Serb by origin, with an American passport now, having been US-submariner, but now living in Germany?

Agree on your parts about immigrants, although fairness demands to note that not all immigrants are like that. Asians for example usually seem to try hard to fit in. Peoploe from Slavic countries, especially German-Russians, often show good will but lacking self-esteem and a certain shyness that makes itn hard for them to adapt into this social environment which often they perceive as much colder and unfriendly than the world they left behind. eurppeans living in Germany, usually adapt well, too. the very huge majority of problems is set up by people from Islamic nations, it simply is true. but even here one needs to see individuals. My dentist is Syrian, my cardiologist is Iranian, and both are not suspicious of being ideologists, have adapted to Germany in full, and speak the language fluent. On the other hand, third generation Turks - of whom friends of mankind usually would assume to have adapted even more than there parents (who are almost imune to integration) - tend towards stronger Turkish nationalism and islamic radicalisation than even their parents. and from my old job I remember the warehouse detectives (all of them from the ME, since their agency focussed on employing immigrants) saying that more than 50% of their clinetel are muslim juveniles, and that they are totally overrfepresented in crime statistics, and that no other ethnic group acts as aggressive and unimpressed towards them or the police. Juveniles crime statistics of the German police also shows juveniles from Muslim countries being in lead of the statistics. Most cases when I had troubles with customers in the store, these were People from the ME and Turkey, older people still not having learned my language (although having lived for many years in Germany, bviously), youngster behaving with verbal attacks on me or others - but both often behaving as if the place and the land was all theirs - and as if me or anybody else would owe them anything. and this is a kind of people I certainly do not like a bit, and do not tolerate to be here.

[Frame57]

No Sky, My Grand Dad fought in WW1 for the Serbian Army. He was awarded land near Kosovo and gave it to his brother before he migrated to America after WW1. I have many relatives in Serbia. I am a US Citizen. Our family here in America had to sent over 20,000 US dollars to my relatives because the UN bulldozed their property and forced them out and had to relocate. The UN did this to all Serbs that lived within 10 miles of the Kosovo area. The land was given by Serbia for my Grandfather's patriotic servic during the war and the UN thinks they had the right to do this. This included the family graveyard. Tombstones and all were just bulldozed. So, I do have a bone to pick with the UN. I have no answer to what can quench the fire of the centuries old blood fued between the muslim and the serb. I wish they could find a way to live in peace. Things were going well while Tito ran things. The story i got was all this erupted when Islamic terrorist started to snipe people while in church and began to burn their churches. I cannot say with a clear concious that two wrongs make a right, but the Serb mind set has been to fight fire with fire. A cousin of mine who now lives in Belgrade told me that people who now live in Kosovo are becoming the new heroin suppliers of eastern europe. A difficult situation needless to say.

[Skybird]

I certainly see the ambitions of Milosevic and Karadzic leading beyond simple self-defense, however I have already revised my old attitude on the West's role on the Balkans, and NATO's war. since we had no obligation to be in defense of serbish interests as you describe them, and western position became questionable when wanting to stop the snipering at Sarajevo, but not caring for Muslim snipers as you described, and sending peacekeepers with a totally idiotic mandate that forbid them to be effective, which led to the disgusting role they played in Screbrenica, and it definitely has not been in our interest to make Albanian Muslims puring into Kosovo and taking it while erecting a government of Mafia-gangsters, war criminals, and former brutal Militia leaders, we really should have kept out of it. Instead we bombed Serbish factories (mind you that Serb forces were cabable to withdraw almost untouched, in good order, most units without even notable losses, and 9 out of 10 smart missiles having been fooled by fake doubles, so said the British MoD). sure it would have been a mess to let have Milosevic ruling all those places by use of terror and brutality, but I cannot say that I conclude the situation now is more preferrable. the tensions in bosnia are being supressed and I fear are growing in the hidden. there is Kosovo and what it is now. The balkans was a stategic lose-lose-situation for the West from the beginning. In such cases it probably is best to simply stay out, instead of gettig dirty hands all for nothing.

Don't take it personally when I say I am fed up with the Balkans, completely. It was a source of mess in the past, and it still is today. That you with Serb ancestors see it different, I can understand.

[Diopos]

...
Don't take it personally when I say I am fed up with the Balkans, completely.
...

Me, too. :yep:
But this is somewhat of a problem as I'm Greek!
So the Balkans are my neighborhood and when your neighborhood gets on fire more than once (:hmm: ) you get a bit jumpy!

[Frame57]

I have also heard that there are plans to make the Adriatic coast into a Monte Carlo resort and Casino's. The Serbs are against this. But I have found that all too often when things happen, you just follow the money. Bah! Time for a Warsteiner.:yep: