Are Japanese destoyers too good at detecting your sub??

[ddiplock]

So, I encountered a large Japanese task force with 2 Kongo Battleships in it, radioed in its location and was ordered to break off contact at my "discreation", though i'm assuming what they really mean is "try and sink the bastards" :D

So, I use my discretion and start maneuvering into a firing position on the lead Kongo. One of the nearside destroyers opens up with his ASDIC and everything goes to hell. I dive down to 400ft and evade the sods, not a single depth charge landing near me. That's good.

But, my point is, I can NEVER seem to slip past the escort screen of destroyers for either a convoy or a task force. I'm using the same tactics I used to use in SH3, and i was quite often able to slip in undetected. But ALWAYS, without fail, the Japs somehow know i'm there, even though I was creeping along at less than a knot.

What is the tactic for getting past the Japs?? because this is really unfair me being as quiet as possible creeping in, and they always blow the whistle on the whole thing!!!:damn:

Do I need to slip past them while running deep? and then come slowly upto PD?? Or as my question is.....Are Jap destroyers TOO frigging sensitive in being able to detect you early on??? :nope:

[Mush Martin]

you know most days in a regular game I never
get detected and never go to silent running,
the better to reload torps with. letting them
come to you is the thing.

in my case If you use the distance between
the escort and the convoy as a yardstick
I usually fire from between 125 to 150% of that
distance out from the base course of the convoy
at right angles. most of my attacks in career are made
from that distance and firing into the target convoy
at 45 degrees AOB, why go inside when you dont
have to, if your not using the engines staying
off silent running means torp reloads, that and
firing early means that if you fire your first round
at 60 AOB reloads in a fleet boat means you can
fire twelve at the target before they pass.
keeping your scope exposure to a minimum is wise
of course when that close but after getting further
out from here the noise is less important.
if the destroyers do start getting closer than 1200yds
I do go quiet, but Gaining favourable
position and awaiting your enemy at ease is the thing.
to my mind anyway.

M

[ddiplock]

you know most days in a regular game I never
get detected and never go to silent running,
the better to reload torps with. letting them
come to you is the thing.

in my case If you use the distance between
the escort and the convoy as a yardstick
I usually fire from between 125 to 150% of that
distance out from the base course of the convoy
at right angles. most of my attacks in career are made
from that distance and firing into the target convoy
at 45 degrees AOB, why go inside when you dont
have to, if your not using the engines staying
off silent running means torp reloads, that and
firing early means that if you fire your first round
at 60 AOB reloads in a fleet boat means you can
fire twelve at the target before they pass.
keeping your scope exposure to a minimum is wise
of course when that close but after getting further
out from here the noise is less important.
if the destroyers do start getting closer than 1200yds
I do go quiet, but Gaining favourable
position and awaiting your enemy at ease is the thing.
to my mind anyway.

M

I've done that in the past, let them come to me and its not made a difference. heck, on one task force i had my engines totally stopped, and the lead destroyer still somehow picked me up, even with my periscope down. Because its so far been impossible for me to penetrate the defences of a convoy I might have to try for some long range shots, but that alone has its own problems.

1. Longer range means solutions need to be more accurate

2. Outlying destroyers on the flanks of the convoy spotting the torpedo wakes and alerting the whole group meaning there is a higher proportion of torp misses

I dont know, it just seems to me that Jap destroyers are overly sensitive and can detect you even with ur engines stopped and scope down. I must have been about 3200 yards from the lead Kongo on that task force when the outlying destroyer detected me. Too far for me to comfortably take a shot.

Only thing I haven't tried, is diving to say, 100 feet and trying to get in while running deep. But, that might not work either :(

[Orion2012]

I too have experienced the same problem, I generally try and put myself in a postition where I expect the convoy to cross, like you said at about a 45AOB, once the front ship in the convoy, not the DD, are within a bout 5000 yards I'll come up and begin taking meansurments and setting up my shoots. At this point its a crap shoot, I've had them start the active sonar as soon as I rise above the thermal, and then I've had 6 out of 6 hit before they even began evasive manuvers.

[LeeVanSpliff]

This might be quite stupid as I don't use map contact updates and my experience with convoys (in SH4) has been collected from a periscope/hydrophone point of view.

However, I think there is a gap between the escorts that mostly stay around the side and the escort that stays ahead of the convoy - if you wait to the side of the convoy I often manage to slip closer after the first destroyer is past and before the second shows up. Needless to say this also goes wrong sometimes and they pick me up.

Hey let me just illustrate what I mean with an ugly picture:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/733/blurhmv9.th.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blurhmv9.jpg)

[Rockin Robbins]

What part of the war are you in? Are you using Trigger Maru? I hear Japanese escorts in Trigger Maru have Superman aboard. Sure seems like it sometimes.

If you're using Trigger Maru, remember that the mod is not to make the game more realistic, although it often does just that. Trigger Maru's prime directive is to make SH4 more challenging. You're not going to get any 100,000 ton cruises. 50,000 is kind of out of reach unless you find the right ships. Escorted convoys may be able to fight you off without you being able to make a single shot on the protected merchies.

It's sort of like a pitching duel in baseball. Or like a soccer (yuck!) game. To the uninitiated, these are just plain tedious. To those who have immersed themselves in the lore of the respective games, it's all exciting. I enjoy taking on the escorted convoy, knowing that my first approach often won't get me near the merchies.

I'm waiting for the escorts to detect me so I can group them all together on top of me. I'm hoping that one will peel off, shut down the engines and use their sound gear to vector in the others, because when they think they've got me, I'm coming up to peiscope depth set for point and shoot to send the sneaky one to Davy Jones' Locker with a single shot.

I've attacked at sundown so I can pull out, do another end around to the other side of the convoy, hoping the excorts are still bunched up on the side of the original attack, looking for me. Well, they're about to find me by tracing the explosions I'm about to make on their precious merchies!

I've made four separate attacks on the same convoy during a night, leaving nothing but a couple of escorts with nothing left to guard when the sun came up. The battle goes for hours and hours of real time, almost as long as the game time. Make a mistake and you're deadl Don't get greedy. Know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. And know when to run away, for you'll be doing all those things in the course of the night.

I wouldn't want it any other way.

[ddiplock]

What part of the war are you in? Are you using Trigger Maru? I hear Japanese escorts in Trigger Maru have Superman aboard. Sure seems like it sometimes.

If you're using Trigger Maru, remember that the mod is not to make the game more realistic, although it often does just that. Trigger Maru's prime directive is to make SH4 more challenging. You're not going to get any 100,000 ton cruises. 50,000 is kind of out of reach unless you find the right ships. Escorted convoys may be able to fight you off without you being able to make a single shot on the protected merchies.

It's sort of like a pitching duel in baseball. Or like a soccer (yuck!) game. To the uninitiated, these are just plain tedious. To those who have immersed themselves in the lore of the respective games, it's all exciting. I enjoy taking on the escorted convoy, knowing that my first approach often won't get me near the merchies.

I'm waiting for the escorts to detect me so I can group them all together on top of me. I'm hoping that one will peel off, shut down the engines and use their sound gear to vector in the others, because when they think they've got me, I'm coming up to peiscope depth set for point and shoot to send the sneaky one to Davy Jones' Locker with a single shot.

I've attacked at sundown so I can pull out, do another end around to the other side of the convoy, hoping the excorts are still bunched up on the side of the original attack, looking for me. Well, they're about to find me by tracing the explosions I'm about to make on their precious merchies!

I've made four separate attacks on the same convoy during a night, leaving nothing but a couple of escorts with nothing left to guard when the sun came up. The battle goes for hours and hours of real time, almost as long as the game time. Make a mistake and you're deadl Don't get greedy. Know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. And know when to run away, for you'll be doing all those things in the course of the night.

I wouldn't want it any other way.

Yeah, I am using Trigger Maru. I enjoy a challenge as much as the next person, but it happens EVERY single time virtually and it can be really annoying :( I agree with you about the Jap destroyers having superman onboard...he's able to hear all!!!

I'll keep on trying, and if that fails, i'll have to practice longer range shots.

[Seminole]

The Japs never seem to find me if I drop below a thermal (always seems to be one handy thank goodness) , run at 1 or 2 knots and keep turns to less than 20 degrees.

Silent running doesn't really seem to matter much...but I do it anyway.


If you are trying to get into a convoy or task force stay silent and deep. Your sub can come back to periscope depth very quicky in SH4. In SH3 it was an agonizingly slow process with the targets often passing by,and out of range, before you made it up to shoot.

And if you master the sonar shooting technique..which I have not as yet...you don't even need to come all the way to periscope depth.

[ddiplock]

The Japs never seem to find me if I drop below a thermal (always seems to be one handy thank goodness) , run at 1 or 2 knots and keep turns to less than 20 degrees.

Silent running doesn't really seem to matter much...but I do it anyway.


If you are trying to get into a convoy or task force stay silent and deep. Your sub can come back to periscope depth very quicky in SH4. In SH3 it was an agonizingly slow process with the targets often passing by,and out of range, before you made it up to shoot.

And if you master the sonar shooting technique..which I have not as yet...you don't even need to come all the way to periscope depth.

Well that's one thing i'm thinking of doing whenever I am moving into a firing position on a convoy or TF. Dive deep, and use hydrophones to listen to them and track their positions. Then when I'm in my desired range and hopefully past the screening escorts, slowly rise upto PD and make a solution, fire, and then dive deep.

Chances are it wouldn't be long before i'd be detected at PD based on past experience :(

[Orion2012]

This is from the TMO FAQ:

10.) The AI is too hard!!!

Go to this file again.

/data/cfg/sim.cfg

and change the Hydrophone Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation from 2 to 3. Then change the sonar Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation from 3 to 5. Easy mode and dumber AI should be yours again.

[Seminole]

It really works for me. Since I've been doing it this way that lead destroyer just goes sailing along like hes on moonlight bay....not a care in the world.

Before, I always saw that masthead light pop on and here he would come. Collision course. Splash...splash..splash...:nope:


Only thing is ...if you are doing manual targeting forget getting AOBs, ranges, speeds and all that for those perfect periscope solution shots. (well unless you are a heck of lot faster than I am ) You have to have your tubes set for dead ahead shots and lead your targets like shooting birds with a shotgun...which is okay too since this way I can take out 2 maybe 3 targets....before I head back down into the deep.

If I were doing the full manual calculations then I would be lucky to get one from a convoy....and most likely I would get clobbered before I was even halfway ready to shoot.

[Frederf]

The problem for when DD's detect you at 0 kts, silent running is that the DD's active sonar detection cone is on all the time, even when they aren't actively using sonar. As soon as you wander into a place where you would be detected if the enemy DD decides to ping you, he will automatically decide at that second to turn on his sonar and ping you for no reason.

And there you are, detected by the DD. It's a poor modeling of DD behavior in all versions of SH3/SH4. Treat all DDs as if they are pinging all the time, even if they aren't.

[Bosje]

yes Frederf and that's exactly my gripe, too

it put me off SH4 before and now i just got back to the game to have another go (as i really love the graphics)

unless they have good reason to do so, I want them to only start going into alert mode when the torpedoes start going, not when I am sitting quiet as a mouse, being a hole in the water

changing the config will sort that out? or will it just make it a bit easier AFTER they go into alert?

[Arclight]

AFAIK the escorts always using active sonar is not behaviour controlled by any file (hardcoded?). It's just how they do business in SH, no way around it. Only way I know of sneaking into a convoy / taskforce is run deep and come up in the middle of it. Sorry mate. ;)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. :hmm:

[Frederf]

Aspect has a lot to do with your active sonar exposure. Turning toward or away from the nearest escort significantly reduces your signature, even 45 degrees off means a lot.

[ddiplock]

Quite interesting though, as I remember in the very first Silent Hunter, the Japanese escorts would be pinging constantly, they wouldnt know you were there, but they would be pinging away non-stop. As you approached the convoy, you could hear the faint pings in the water, that would get louder the closer you got. For a game modelled in 1996, it was really well done :)

In truth, I think that's how they really did it. I know that in real life, British destroyers anyway when escorting convoys would constantly be using active ASDIC on the chance they'd detect a U-boat trying to penetrate the convoy.

[doulos05]

Really, for a surface ship, there's not reason for them not to ping the hell out of everything. Riding on the surface, their radar signature screams "SHOOT HERE!" and their bow wake, screws, machinery, etc makes so much noise that they aren't going to sneak up on anyone. Why not ping?

Personally, I like to slip in when the lead escort and the escort on whichever side I'm approaching from are both moving away from me. It's worked for me every time. Then again, I'm not running Trigger Maru

[SteamWake]

radioed in its location

There is a mild hint here :yep:

[swdw]

There are several incidences in Theodore Roscoe's US Submarines in WWII of IJN DD's pinging for "no reason" other than that was the way they were performing their escort duty. Even read where a couple of the subs followed the pings to the convoy.

[Nicolas]

I made a post of this with the same question, but this one is more informative.
It seems they get you when they are close no matter if you are all stop periscope down, i will try the thermal layer thing, so if a DD is above you but your sub is past the layer you dont get detected?

[AKULA_71]

Even if you are useing auto-targeting, abuse the PK. With good data pluged into it you can submerge well under the thermal and let the destroyers run over your sub. Then it's a matter of poping up to 95ft and launching a spread of torpedoes.

The PK makes attacks almost too easy but the catch is haveing good data along with a good fireing position.

[groomsie]

Only thing I haven't tried, is diving to say, 100 feet and trying to get in while running deep. But, that might not work either :(

In my opinion, that is the issue. I'm not an expert, but my successes in attacking escorted formations have come when I lock onto the "target of interest" (or lead target if there are multiples you are willing to bag--note I don't lock onto the escorts), engage the PK, and--assuming I'm where I'd like to be relative the base track of the group--go deep (prefer below thermal) sit quite and set your torpedoes. Once sonar tells you the lead escort is passing you begin your ascent from the depths and if necessary final maeuver to fire. Your PK should (provided the formation hasn't changed course--always a risk) tell you the range to target based on last know data and if you check the arrows it will tell you bearing to target to start looking. Keep in mind there are other ships out there and you may want to do a sonar (passive) sweep and/or a periscope sweep as you come up looking for possible close calls or a changed tactical situation. Open tubes as soon as you can to be ready to fire quickly. Once up to PD I lock back onto my target, disengage the PK (I've had it really queer a shot sometimes), and then fire.

What I find is if I'm deep the escorts will run right by provided they don't have other reason to have their alert up (such as spotting you as you approach your intercept point). Before, if I was relatively shallow (over 100') I almost always got clobbered.

Good luck man!

[jazman]

So, I use my discretion and start maneuvering into a firing position on the lead Kongo. One of the nearside destroyers opens up with his ASDIC and everything goes to hell. I dive down to 400ft and evade the sods, not a single depth charge landing near me.


See, they didn't really even come close, did they? Just need a little boldness. The pre-war old-man mentality makes you go deep and hide in fear.

I just did it last night in the Java Sea in a pigboat. The depth charges being dropped weren't that close, and my soundman was tracking one can coming towards me, but he was going to pass by me, so I knew they didn't know where I was, and I went up to periscope depth, and saw what looked like the whole Japanese merchant navy. I managed to sink a freighter as another can bore down on me. Even then, they didn't really find me.

[Kloef]

Thats why navigation is crucial!
Allways position yourself in a favourable position,with a slight angle on the convoys/strike force course.When they are close go to silent running,dive in the thermal layer and KILL THE ENGINES,wait....dont manouvre..if you still have to manouvre you made a mistake,the angle will keep you from being detected!

Let the lead destroyer pass you,now wait untill he passes over you,thats the time you make your move.When he passes go to flank speed for about 5-10 seconds,nobody can hear you now...use the build up speed to manouvre yourself in a firing position..rise to periscope depth,pick the most favourable target(not tonnage,but one with the highest probability of destroying,excluding small ships offcourse) and fire,use more torpedoes if you have a target with another ship trailing on the lane behind her,you'll be suprised how many hits you get that way..use the confusion and dissarray to make your escape,dive to maximum depth and steer into the convoy,keep the boat as close to the ships as you can,this will prevent detection!

If you do this the right way you will become a stalker like me,slowly demolishing the whole convoy,the 2 things you need are time and torpedoes...

If you stay close to a ship in the convoy you will be able to use battlestations and load new torpedoes without being detected,if you are detected there's nothing they can do except use depth charges,damaging their own ships or even sinking them!

Learn to break free from being too defensive,as soon as that first torpedo hits they know you are out there,attack and take your chance,confuse them,do unexpected things that will screw with their sonar's like i decribed above..

[Kruger]

I completely agree.

However, I have tried a more different approach. I allways attack convoys and task forces from distance. Minimum 5000 yards (nighttime preferably). In this way, I can maneuver and use battlestations , thus insuring a high speed reload of torps. I usually attack (in my tambor) two targets, and try to launch the two (three torps each) bow salvos as grouped as possible. More than this, I try to calculate my position and pick the targets in such a way that when I fire the first three torpedoes they are set to low speed, and the next three torpedoes are set to high speed. If everything goes well, both salvos will impact two different ships at different distances in approximately the same time. This timing doesn't allow the second ship to take evasive action after the first ship has been hit.

The escorts will go mad, hell will break loose within the shios, but you will be far away. As I said, about 5000 yards. Do not move (you are still presenting your small cross section to the DD's), stay on PD or at 45 meters, reload fast. Rise again, and see if you have another opportunity. By this time the remaining ships will be zig-zagging, but if you are lucky and careful you can still hit something.

[groomsie]

Just last night I'm setting up ahead of a large merchant convoy, 7 merchants, 2 DDs and 2 subchasers. It is late afternoon, clear, I'm out around 6k from nearest subchaser and in position around 1k off track of near column, the lead subchaser opposite side of far column. I'm at PD monitoring, stopped, preparing to go deep to wait when I see the subchaser coming directly toward me. Hmmm. Then I can see at least 1 DD appearing to follow. I decide to just go deep and wait (as I planned to do)...only to have all 4 escorts meet over top of me and start dropping DCs!

I took some damage, managed to repair most of it while creeping toward the body of the convoy. Finally got frustrated with all this and crossed under a merchie (to shake the escort) while coming up to PD to attack. The "total mayhem attack" was successful, sinking 2 large modern composites and an old tanker on 10 torpedoes (and my "cutie" hit something too, but no confirmed sinking). More DCs and that darn subchaser was leading the charge, having an uncanny ability to find me it seemed. I finally managed to creep away and lived to fight, but...

Made me think about if they should have detected me at all at that kind of range. The only thing I can think is it is possible that where I was set up (NNE of convoy, which was on a 350 base course) the afternoon sun may have reflected off my periscope and made the subchaser curious?

[SteamWake]

the afternoon sun may have reflected off my periscope and made the subchaser curious?

Although it may be 'super human' yes they will see your scope. Next time follow the fleet using passive sonar :up:

I may raise my scope momentarily for a snapshot but it goes right back down again. No more than 30 seconds. Even that gets 'spotted' occassionally.

[Rockin Robbins]

Now, just because they are pinging you, that doesn't mean they know where you are. Yes they automatically will ping you every time, but no, that doesn't mean they detect you and will react to your presence. Plenty of times in TMO I have just ignored a pinging destroyer and snuck right by or right away. Patience is your friend. Flinch and hit the jets at the wrong time and they'll detect you for sure. Be very slow and deliberate about your decision-making.

I know this doesn't make rational sense, but we are talking about a computer, not a submarine, water and an escort. The nature of simulation is often weirdness.

[SteamWake]

Escorts pinging out into the 'darkness' is one thing, but when they all come over to your general location as a group and start dropping cans its a pretty sure bet they know your there.

[Rockin Robbins]

Escorts pinging out into the 'darkness' is one thing, but when they all come over to your general location as a group and start dropping cans its a pretty sure bet they know your there.

Excellent evidence!http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/thumbsup_weird.gif

[groomsie]

Now, just because they are pinging you, that doesn't mean they know where you are. Yes they automatically will ping you every time, but no, that doesn't mean they detect you and will react to your presence. Plenty of times in TMO I have just ignored a pinging destroyer and snuck right by or right away. Patience is your friend. Flinch and hit the jets at the wrong time and they'll detect you for sure. Be very slow and deliberate about your decision-making.

Thanks RR. Yep, I've done same and in fact last night in the end the escorts were pinging away and dropping cans as I crept away until I got...blessed silence.

BTW, last night was the first I've experienced a k-gun attack, took me by surprise.

[tater]

In RL, the IJN pinged too much. Many times they lead US to their targets since they'd drive around banging away with the active sonar.

[Steeltrap]

In RL, the IJN pinged too much. Many times they lead US to their targets since they'd drive around banging away with the active sonar.

Fact is low frequency sounds travel much further in water than high frequency ones, so the sounds of merchants pounding away at 7-10kts would, realistically, be much more evident than some pings being fired off in comparitively tight cones. They would only generate a return echo out to a few thousand yards at most (the more advanced ASDIC models had ranges of around 2,500 yards, and they were far more effective than Jap stuff).

I'm aware of many instances of ships being detected by sound out to many miles, but not aware of many instances of many escorts being detected outside those ranges due to pinging.

Mind you, USA's radar would detect ships at huge ranges later in the war, so they were better off on the surface in most respects. I found it very interesting to read just how little time Dick O'Kane spent submerged when patrolling - his default was to be on the surface from what I've read in Clear the Bridge.

[doulos05]

In RL, the IJN pinged too much. Many times they lead US to their targets since they'd drive around banging away with the active sonar.

Fact is low frequency sounds travel much further in water than high frequency ones, so the sounds of merchants pounding away at 7-10kts would, realistically, be much more evident than some pings being fired off in comparitively tight cones. They would only generate a return echo out to a few thousand yards at most (the more advanced ASDIC models had ranges of around 2,500 yards, and they were far more effective than Jap stuff).

Mind you, USA's radar would detect ships at huge ranges later in the war, so they were better off on the surface in most respects. I found it very interesting to read just how little time Dick O'Kane spent submerged when patrolling - his default was to be on the surface from what I've read in Clear the Bridge.

Yeah, the more you think about it, at least for me, the more it makes sense that they would just ping the hell out of the water. Besides, as an escort, their job is to protect the convoy from threats on, above, and below the water. If you can use radar (or RDF technology, which the Japs had at a much higher level than we thought at the start of the war) for surface and air threats, it only makes sense to use active sonar to protect against submerged threats.

Otherwise, you're basically sailing along blind as can be to what's going on around you. Sure, you may get lucky and hear a sub with your passives, but why not pound away with your actives as well since your already making too much noise as a convoy of 8+ ships cruising at 8-9 knots to hide. No sonarman worth his salt is going to mistake 16 propellers making rotations for 8 knots for a false transient.:huh:

And, at the point where they're close enough you can find them with active.... your passive sonar isn't going to give you nearly enough information, that sub is Danger Close and you need to be tossing enough ash cans on his head that he thinks it's the 4th of July.

Realistically speaking, convoys don't try to hide from their predators, they're trying for strength in numbers (although hiding is nice :up: ). There's so much other sound going on in a convoy that pinging isn't going to significantly impair your OpSec, unless they're pings heard 'round the pacific.:D

[SteamWake]

The vast majoirty of convoys were located by airel recon.

Sailing about pinging away may have been some deterint but I dont think they intended it this way. ASDIC was kind of new technology at the time and the best way to use it was not self evident.

[Nicolas]

So then, japanese destroyers in sh4 pings all the time, (because no way they can detect if not) but why i not hear the ping until the dd is very close and detecting the submarine :shifty:

[SteamWake]

So then, japanese destroyers in sh4 pings all the time, (because no way they can detect if not) but why i not hear the ping until the dd is very close and detecting the submarine :shifty:

First off you can hear the pings regarless of wether or not they have 'detected' you.

Secondly active sonar has a range after a certian distance the amplitude of the signall falls off dramatically following the inverse square law. Its sound waves not radio waves.

Game wise I think it is just a certain range if you are within the range you hear it if not well you dont.

[Nicolas]

The pings can be heard when they search, (already detected) from 1000 yards... :yep:

[SteamWake]

The pings can be heard when they search, (already detected) from 1000 yards... :yep:

News to me... can anyone confirm this?

[Nicolas]

SteamWake, actually the ping can be heard from 1200 yards...
I dont like being detected by a game thing without reason (unless japs had ultrsonic or something):cry:

[Rockin Robbins]

Repeat: hearing the ping says nothing about whether you were detected or not. It happens all the time that a pinging escort may not detect you at all.

[Nicolas]

I know RR, i have read your comment before, its true, i just dont like this 'magic detection' i wish it could be modded.

[doulos05]

The key to remember is they may not actually be detecting you when pinging. They're pinging away trying to detect you. You've been made when the pings suddenly start occuring closer and closer together. In that case, you may want to have a listen at the sonar station yourself and see if it sounds like he's increased speed and is closing (or press "Report nearest sound contact"). If he's increasing speed and closing, it's time to go deep.

Try to hold off your turn until after you're under the thermal layer (if there is one) then lay over hard to port or starboard (I try to turn towards the convoy) and rig for silent running. Of course, if you hear him pass right over your sub, it's time to turn regardless of depth. Take advantage of the fact he can't hear immediately in front of him, directly below him, or at any range in his baffles and lay over towards the convoy and make max speed. Once you hear the detonations, rudder amidships and silent running, continuing the dive if you haven't passed a thermal yet.

Verify your bearing relative to the convoy (using the sonar contact lines) and you may still get a shot with the stern tubes once you've passed under them (or even come up in the middle and get them with forward and aft tubes).

[Galanti]

Repeat: hearing the ping says nothing about whether you were detected or not. It happens all the time that a pinging escort may not detect you at all.

No, but in my experience, and please correct me if i'm wrong, pinging destroyers mean that they suspect there's a snake in the grass, and are taking appropriate measures.

Which unfortunately means the convoy or TF they're escorting is taking evasive action (ziggzagging and increased speed) and your attack has been effectively foiled.

[PFK]

I guess using the depthsounder is a bad idea. I was on photo recon approaching the coast. There was a destroyer stationary at 2500. Looked like it was getting shallow so I checked the depth. Suddenly the destroyer revved up and came charging over for me. I suppose its reasonable that his hydrophone could have picked up my ping

[Webster]

Repeat: hearing the ping says nothing about whether you were detected or not. It happens all the time that a pinging escort may not detect you at all.

No, but in my experience, and please correct me if i'm wrong, pinging destroyers mean that they suspect there's a snake in the grass, and are taking appropriate measures.

Which unfortunately means the convoy or TF they're escorting is taking evasive action (ziggzagging and increased speed) and your attack has been effectively foiled.

your reasoning is sound but it doesnt work that way in the game. the game has them pinging away 24/7 (unless they are listening) so that by itself means nothing as to weather or not you are detected just as RR said. you just need to set up your angle of attack to avoid a profile that increases your chances of being detected.

[Webster]

I guess using the depthsounder is a bad idea. I was on photo recon approaching the coast. There was a destroyer stationary at 2500. Looked like it was getting shallow so I checked the depth. Suddenly the destroyer revved up and came charging over for me. I suppose its reasonable that his hydrophone could have picked up my ping

its like sending up a flare to mark your position.

[doulos05]

its like sending up a flare to mark your position.

A flourescent pink flare with fireworks that explodes into a giant, aerial sign with an arrow pointing to your sub saying "Drop DCs here!" Actually, one Japanese mid-shipman our boat fished out of the water said that if they're close enough when the flare goes up they can hear a recording of the Navy Band playing "Anchor's Aweigh" too.

On a related note, if you are below periscope depth and there is some light, you can proceed at ahead 1/3 and raise your periscope to watch the ground in front of you. Set it on 0 degrees, no magnification, and deflect it down as far as it will go and you can see what's just ahead of your sub. Visibility may vary based on weather, speed, light, and how much plankton the mod you're running has in it. I, along with at least one other skipper here (I got the idea from his post), have used that to sneak into harbors for some *cough* *cough* photo recon....

[Galanti]

your reasoning is sound but it doesnt work that way in the game. the game has them pinging away 24/7 (unless they are listening) so that by itself means nothing as to weather or not you are detected just as RR said. you just need to set up your angle of attack to avoid a profile that increases your chances of being detected.

They ping 24/7 in the game? It doesn't seem that way to me at all. I understand there is probably a max range you can hear the pings, but I never hear any pinging at all until I'm positive I've announced my presence (usually be detonating several hundred pounds of Torpex!). I wish it was the way you described, which would be more authentic.