Crits/Comments about US Navy

[Chad]

As of lately, my girlfriend/fiance left me about a month before we were supposed to get married, which completely flipped my life upside down. My grades dropped in school, and my work performance didn't exactly hold up to par. But I did get a raise last week which was nice.

But that's not why I'm writing now, I still seem to be in a rut. Here I am, about to turn 20 on the 29th this month, and I feel my life is going nowhere.

I don't have the same output on life like i did before. Before the break up I could play SH3, work on my little indie game, and watch Das Boot 20x a month. Now I can barely even get on the computer without feeling like a low-down, piece of **** sloth that has no life.

When I'm not at school or work, I'm home alone, and that's probably the worst thing for me. The quiet just makes me feel lonely and depressed. I have friends yes, but due to their schedules usually conflicting with mine it usually takes some planning and time to get together, and it's not altogether that often.

Basically I've decided to make some changes in my life, and this afternoon I called a Navy Recruiter to come out and sit down with me and my family and talk about joining. This is where I'd like your guys opinions, what do you think about a college student with a part-time job at Wal-Mart in Electronics still living at home with his parents joining the navy?

I'm not altogether out of shape, I used to play football in high school but lost a lot of my muscle mass and weight, and couldn't run a mile under 10 minutes anymore. But I'm still "in shape" if you get what I'm saying. I could start running again, and get back in shape before boot camp, or whatever the navy has. So the physical part wouldn't be that difficult. Also I'm good at making friends, so in training I could make and meet friends, and since we'd be together almost all the time I wouldn't feel lonely.

I'm a good fast learner, and have always loved the military, from the civil war onwards, and I think that this would be a good direction to head my life into. The more i think about it the more excited I get, but I know a lot of you were in the navy before, and want to know what you think.

Thanks for your help,
Chad

[FIREWALL]

The first paragraph Chad makes me think you should give this some more serious thought before you leap.:yep:

This is a big life changeing thing and you don't want to go into this for the wrong reasons.


I wish you the best matey. :up:

[RickC Sniper]

Don't join the military because you want friends.

You sound depressed and that can become a serious disorder. Deal with this problem before making the decision to enlist.

[Chad]

Okay, I just want some direction in my life. I feel like i'm going no where. This is why I think it would be a good decision.

My love for the sea, when i was younger we travelled to Florida all the time, and i just love the smell, sound, and plain sight of it. I've always been a good swimmer and can hold my breath for about a minute, which probably doesn't matter but water is like second nature.

When I first bought Sh2 i didn't know the difference betweeen a bow plane and a depth charge. I have to admit, i was never really that interested in submarines or the naval warfare part of things. But the wolfpack league, and subsim really informed me on a lot and that's where i learned and became hooked on it. They also taught me some stuff like programming, like the .sdf files that SH2 came with for mission scripting. That led me to develop my own game.
/\ So what i guess i'm trying to say here, is that i've really grown a respect for such technological advanced things. And I'm quick to adapt and learn how to use and operate such equipment.

It is for myself. I'm not joining to live up to a family tradition, to prove something, or show-off. I want to do this, I want to serve my country, and when I'm dead and my family comes to see my grave, I want the American flag flying next to my grave, showing I served my country the best I can.

And, as I mentioned in my previous post, I want direction in life. Maybe I can learn a new skill, or expand my knowledge in one I already had. So that after I retire or get released, I can easily get a job with my experience in the field.

Nothing is final, i'm going to pray about it, talk to friends and family, and last, the recruiter to see what options are available for me, and see where things go.

[Tchocky]

What kind of education are you in right now?

It's usually best to finish school, then move on.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. But there will always be times in life like that.

Think carefully before you decide to enlist, however. If you can go to college or have any opportunity to land a decent union job or something (which will likely pay more than what you would make for years out of college) I would look at doing those things first.

If you do decide to enlist, remember a few things.

1) Assume anything the recruiter promises you is a lie unless you get it in writing.

2) Talk to any friends who have enlisted and get their advice. If you don't have any enlisted friends, I'll be your friend:D .

3) Take a good look at all branches, not just the Navy. Make sure you ask about, and get (in writing) any guarantees for enlistment bonuses you can.

4) Make sure you are prepared to spend a good part of your life being controlled. Not sure about the Navy but most of the time th USMC doesn't let you sleep, eat, sit or s*** unless you are authorized to do so. And it better be quick.

5) Have a plan B. If you enlist elect not to re-enlist or make a career of it, be sure you have some groundwork laid for a civvie job. Choosing a useful MOS that can be applied in civilian life helps a lot. Computer or network-oriented jobs are some of the best for that.

6) Assuming you decide to go ahead with it, ask your recruiter about poolee (persons slated to enlist soon) meetings and attend them.
Ask the military personnel every question that comes to mind. Try to learn some basic drill and marching. It will save you hours and hours of pain and being screamed at.

7) If you want to enlist but have some doubts, join the reserves. If you like it you can always go to active duty, but if you don't like active duty, you can't go to the reserves.

8) Never, NEVEREVEREVEREVEREVEREVER, accept an "open" MOS. 9 times out of 10 you just agreed to take the crappiest job they have available. And for the love of all that is holy, actually READ the contract. Double-check everything. I almost signed up for infantry because my recruiter goofed.


I can really sympathize with your situation. My experience was just a little different but similar overall.
I joined the Marine Corps straight out of high school. I shipped out the day after graduation. I would have to write a book to describe the shock and pain of boot camp. It wasn't so much the physical element that was hard. It was being trapped there, with no freedom to do anything I wanted. When my feet hurt I could not sit down. When I was tired I could not sleep. When I was thirsty I could not drink.
Everything, sometimes down to the slightest movement of my body, could only be done with permission. Sometimes you can't even ask permission. You just have to hope they say "drink water" or "use the head" (bathroom for those who don't know)

I graduated boot camp in August 01. Ten days later I was in Camp Pendelton's School of Infantry and barely a week later 9/11 happened.
Things went downhill from there. My girlfriend left me because she "wasn't going to wait while I went to war". My parents got divorced and my grandfather died, along with my horse.

Half a year later, when I finally got to come home, my life as I knew it was gone.
But, the military does do one thing for people in these situations. If you take your training to heart, and embrace the traditions, you gain a discipline not available anywhere else. For me, failure simply lost its meaning. Because of the Marines I know I can do anything, and no matter how badly things may go for me, or how much a loser I may be at some point in my life, I will always be able to hold my head high and say "I am a true servant of my country, and my people. I have nothing to prove."


Well that about sums it up. Whether the military is right for you or not depends on the kind of person you are. If pride in yourself and doing "what's right" is important to you it may be a good choice. If your sole concern is getting rich or "keeping up with the Joneses" you may be disappointed.

If you choose the Navy, know that it is a fine service, with a long and distinguished history that you can be proud of. Just watch out for those Marines, they think they're sooooooooo cool:roll:

P.S. it also comes with the benefit of hundreds of hours of fun shooting the s*** with your enlisted friends, drinking beer and swapping war stories:up:


PM me if you need anything, and good luck!

-the Lance

[SUBMAN1]

I'd say do it. You will learn a lot! :up: Besides, 20 is way too young to get married. I waited till I was 28! You need to live life, you need to live life being 21 without being married. You will both want this - trust me on that. You will feel like you missed a part of your life if you get married this early. In a few years, maybe you can get back together again if you want, but for now - you need to see the world without being hitched. Navy is a great way to do that, and learn skills and dicipline at the same time!

Chances are, when you go for a few years at this, you will see the mistake you were making. She left because she wasn't sure. That is the problem - you are too young to know if its the 'sure' thing. As far as I'm concerned, her breaking it off is probably the best thing that happened to both of you at this point, yet I hardly doubt you realize it yet.

Am I making sense? Don't be down on this. Look at it as an opportunity to find out what 'you' really want in life. When i was 20, I thought i knew it all, but I didn't know squat.

-S

[UnderseaLcpl]

Am I making sense?

Don't be down on this. Look at it as an opportunity to find out what 'you' really want in life. When i was 20, I thought i knew it all, but I didn't know squat.

-S

No, you old geezer:rotfl:
Yeah wait till you're 25. I do know everything now!:know:

[SUBMAN1]

Am I making sense?

Don't be down on this. Look at it as an opportunity to find out what 'you' really want in life. When i was 20, I thought i knew it all, but I didn't know squat.

-S
No, you old geezer:rotfl:
Yeah wait till you're 25. I do know everything now!:know:I think you realize how much you don't know the older you get! Maybe I'm getting old since I know this? I think when you hit 30 is when you first realize that you really don't know anything!

I feel like I'm spewing wisdom now, and thats bad since it takes age to have true wisdom. Ah oh! :-?

-S

[Fish]

Before the break up I could play SH3, work on my little indie game, and watch Das Boot 20x a month.
Chad

Did she say why? :-?

And for the time don't make hasty decisions, take some time to get yourself back on track.

[UnderseaLcpl]

I think you realize how much you don't know the older you get! Maybe I'm getting old since I know this? I think when you hit 30 is when you first realize that you really don't know anything!

I feel like I'm spewing wisdom now, and thats bad since it takes age to have true wisdom. Ah oh! :-?

-S

Man, I have to be 30 to know how dumb I am? I didn't think I could get any dumber. That's depressing:cry:

[Skybird]

Two things.

First, if you join the military for any other reason than wanting to be with the military by heart and soul, then you are an idiot, and only a fool would like the perspective of going into battle with you by his side. It is not a simple job like any other. You eventually end up killing or getting killed, hurt others and getting hurt. Don't engage in this as a profession just because you have forgotten where your Mom has hidden the candies. This is not a job like any other, and you must not join the military just because you are looking for friends. That is stupid. there are many more ways to find friends.

Second, you said you can't stand being at home alone. I say: listen to the silence. It has a lot to tell you about yourself. I am always alarmed about people who can't be alone, because they are always - always! - running away, mostly from themselves, from uncomfortable questions. I also never met a person who can't be alone and was happy with all the action he/she filled her life with in order to evade the silence. It is just distraction from what really bothers you. If you always need the silence being filled with chatter, you cannot listen to any answers. If you can't stay alone with yourself, you don't live your life - you get lived: by others, and their standards and norms and opinions and deeds and actions.

avoiding the silence and joining the military for wrong reasons will do you no good, when taking for real what you wrote about your life. It may keep you so busy that you do not ask questions, and must not face your hidden self that torments you with the Why of your life - but that way you will never face yourself, you will never recongise yourself, and one day when it all comes to the end for you you will have lived your life in vain.

For some people, the military is the right thing. But never is the military the right thing for everybody. And my impression is for you it would just be another way to run away.

regarding your fiance: lket her go. ease your grip. If it is true that she left forever, then your part in this chapter of life is over. You are not the first, and won't be the last suffering this fate. Your fate is nothing special at all. So let it go, leave it behind, move on. time will heal the wounds. and at löeast you know that she is living on a life. If you really felt love, you should know by know that love does not need the poessession of the other, but wishes the other what is best for him/her no matter if you ghet your personal desires rewarded or not. True love canot be selfish. If you claim your desire to be the ultimate standard, then you did not love.

Sorry if I sound rude, but call it therapeutical cruelty.

And one final last thing. It's always better to use your freedom to direct yourself than getting directed by others. Because in this world most times the others will not mean it well with you. You want direction in your life? What's hindering you to try and find out? It's all laid out in front of you, wide and open, so see your options, and make use of them. By actually doing whatever you do you find out soon enough wether it will satisfy you or not. Just don't give your freedom away too easily. If you do - make sure that it is worth it.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Two things.

First, if you join the military for any other reason than wanting to be with the military by heart and soul, then you are an idiot, and only a fool would like the perspective of going into battle with you by his side. It is not a simple job like any other. You eventually end up killing or getting killed, hurt others and getting hurt. Don't engage in this as a profession just because you have forgotten where your Mom has hidden the candies. This is not a job like any other, and you must not join the military just because you are looking for friends. That is stupid. there are many more ways to find friends.

Second, you said you can't stand being at home alone. I say: listen to the silence. It has a lot to tell you about yourself. I am always alarmed about people who can't be alone, because they are always - always! - running away, mostly from themselves, from uncomfortable questions. I also never met a person who can't be alone and was happy with all the action he/she filled her life with in order to evade the silence. It is just distraction from what really bothers you. If you always need the silence being filled with chatter, you cannot listen to any answers. If you can't stay alone with yourself, you don't live your life - you get lived: by others, and their standards and norms and opinions and deeds and actions.

avoiding the silence and joining the military for wrong reasons will do you no good, when taking for real what you wrote about your life. It may keep you so busy that you do not ask questions, and must not face your hidden self that torments you with the Why of your life - but that way you will never face yourself, you will never recongise yourself, and one day when it all comes to the end for you you will have lived your life in vain.

For some people, the military is the right thing. But never is the military the right thing for everybody. And my impression is for you it would just be another way to run away.

regarding your fiance: lket her go. ease your grip. If it is true that she left forever, then your part in this chapter of life is over. You are not the first, and won't be the last suffering this fate. Your fate is nothing special at all. So let it go, leave it behind, move on. time will heal the wounds. and at löeast you know that she is living on a life. If you really felt love, you should know by know that love does not need the poessession of the other, but wishes the other what is best for him/her no matter if you ghet your personal desires rewarded or not. True love canot be selfish. If you claim your desire to be the ultimate standard, then you did not love.

Sorry if I sound rude, but call it therapeutical cruelty.

And one final last thing. It's always better to use your freedom to direct yourself than getting directed by others. Because in this world most times the others will not mean it well with you. You want direction in your life? What's hindering you to try and find out? It's all laid out in front of you, wide and open, so see your options, and make use of them. By actually doing whatever you do you find out soon enough wether it will satisfy you or not. Just don't give your freedom away too easily. If you do - make sure that it is worth it.


That was a little harsh. He didn't say he wanted to join JUST because he was looking for firends.
Why are you assuming that Mr. Chad is looking to join the military because he pines for his fiancee' or is only turning to it in desperation?

He is looking at the military as an option because he feels like his life is going nowhere and is looking for some direction. He already said he has always loved the military. Skybird, you make it sound like he is inherently wrong for considering it, given his current state.

[Sailor Steve]

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

@ Subman1: You are so absolutely right on the "know-it-all" thing. Awhile back on these very boards I repeated the old phrase "The more I learn, the less I know." Somebody came back with "That makes no sense." The only reply I could think of was "That's because you're young and still know everything.":rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. But there will always be times in life like that.

Think carefully before you decide to enlist, however. If you can go to college or have any opportunity to land a decent union job or something (which will likely pay more than what you would make for years out of college) I would look at doing those things first.

If you do decide to enlist, remember a few things.

1) Assume anything the recruiter promises you is a lie unless you get it in writing.

2) Talk to any friends who have enlisted and get their advice. If you don't have any enlisted friends, I'll be your friend:D .

3) Take a good look at all branches, not just the Navy. Make sure you ask about, and get (in writing) any guarantees for enlistment bonuses you can.

4) Make sure you are prepared to spend a good part of your life being controlled. Not sure about the Navy but most of the time th USMC doesn't let you sleep, eat, sit or s*** unless you are authorized to do so. And it better be quick.

5) Have a plan B. If you enlist elect not to re-enlist or make a career of it, be sure you have some groundwork laid for a civvie job. Choosing a useful MOS that can be applied in civilian life helps a lot. Computer or network-oriented jobs are some of the best for that.

6) Assuming you decide to go ahead with it, ask your recruiter about poolee (persons slated to enlist soon) meetings and attend them.
Ask the military personnel every question that comes to mind. Try to learn some basic drill and marching. It will save you hours and hours of pain and being screamed at.

7) If you want to enlist but have some doubts, join the reserves. If you like it you can always go to active duty, but if you don't like active duty, you can't go to the reserves.

8) Never, NEVEREVEREVEREVEREVEREVER, accept an "open" MOS. 9 times out of 10 you just agreed to take the crappiest job they have available. And for the love of all that is holy, actually READ the contract. Double-check everything. I almost signed up for infantry because my recruiter goofed.


I can really sympathize with your situation. My experience was just a little different but similar overall.
I joined the Marine Corps straight out of high school. I shipped out the day after graduation. I would have to write a book to describe the shock and pain of boot camp. It wasn't so much the physical element that was hard. It was being trapped there, with no freedom to do anything I wanted. When my feet hurt I could not sit down. When I was tired I could not sleep. When I was thirsty I could not drink.
Everything, sometimes down to the slightest movement of my body, could only be done with permission. Sometimes you can't even ask permission. You just have to hope they say "drink water" or "use the head" (bathroom for those who don't know)

I graduated boot camp in August 01. Ten days later I was in Camp Pendelton's School of Infantry and barely a week later 9/11 happened.
Things went downhill from there. My girlfriend left me because she "wasn't going to wait while I went to war". My parents got divorced and my grandfather died, along with my horse.

Half a year later, when I finally got to come home, my life as I knew it was gone.
But, the military does do one thing for people in these situations. If you take your training to heart, and embrace the traditions, you gain a discipline not available anywhere else. For me, failure simply lost its meaning. Because of the Marines I know I can do anything, and no matter how badly things may go for me, or how much a loser I may be at some point in my life, I will always be able to hold my head high and say "I am a true servant of my country, and my people. I have nothing to prove."


Well that about sums it up. Whether the military is right for you or not depends on the kind of person you are. If pride in yourself and doing "what's right" is important to you it may be a good choice. If your sole concern is getting rich or "keeping up with the Joneses" you may be disappointed.

If you choose the Navy, know that it is a fine service, with a long and distinguished history that you can be proud of. Just watch out for those Marines, they think they're sooooooooo cool:roll:

P.S. it also comes with the benefit of hundreds of hours of fun shooting the s*** with your enlisted friends, drinking beer and swapping war stories:up:


PM me if you need anything, and good luck!

-the Lance

I think this right here is the reality of the situation. I recommend a PM conversation or use IM. I think Undersealcpl can be a big help in your decision. Sounds like he has his boots on tight and knows the drill. :up:

[Sailor Steve]

You know, I just skimmed his post. Thanks AVG for quoting the whole thing so I read it again, and thanks USLC for showing it the way it is.

AVG is right, Chad, The Marine is the man to talk to.

[Kapitan]

As of lately, my girlfriend/fiance left me about a month before we were supposed to get married, which completely flipped my life upside down. My grades dropped in school, and my work performance didn't exactly hold up to par. But I did get a raise last week which was nice.

But that's not why I'm writing now, I still seem to be in a rut. Here I am, about to turn 20 on the 29th this month, and I feel my life is going nowhere.

I don't have the same output on life like i did before. Before the break up I could play SH3, work on my little indie game, and watch Das Boot 20x a month. Now I can barely even get on the computer without feeling like a low-down, piece of **** sloth that has no life.

When I'm not at school or work, I'm home alone, and that's probably the worst thing for me. The quiet just makes me feel lonely and depressed. I have friends yes, but due to their schedules usually conflicting with mine it usually takes some planning and time to get together, and it's not altogether that often.

Basically I've decided to make some changes in my life, and this afternoon I called a Navy Recruiter to come out and sit down with me and my family and talk about joining. This is where I'd like your guys opinions, what do you think about a college student with a part-time job at Wal-Mart in Electronics still living at home with his parents joining the navy?

I'm not altogether out of shape, I used to play football in high school but lost a lot of my muscle mass and weight, and couldn't run a mile under 10 minutes anymore. But I'm still "in shape" if you get what I'm saying. I could start running again, and get back in shape before boot camp, or whatever the navy has. So the physical part wouldn't be that difficult. Also I'm good at making friends, so in training I could make and meet friends, and since we'd be together almost all the time I wouldn't feel lonely.

I'm a good fast learner, and have always loved the military, from the civil war onwards, and I think that this would be a good direction to head my life into. The more i think about it the more excited I get, but I know a lot of you were in the navy before, and want to know what you think.

Thanks for your help,
Chad

Been there Still there not out of it yet.

I get around the lonelyness by working i think i should have worked a bit harder to win over the navy to get in faster but we all make mistakes find something you like do it for a while.

If you go looking for a new girl dont bother she wont come girls are like busses turn up in your life unexpectedly.

[AVGWarhawk]

You know, I just skimmed his post. Thanks AVG for quoting the whole thing so I read it again, and thanks USLC for showing it the way it is.

AVG is right, Chad, The Marine is the man to talk to.


Yep, if you want my .02 cents worth. Maybe even a phone call to each other. Just post the numbers on email or PM. Wide open on the forums, everyone will call you....collect:o

[Skybird]

That was a little harsh. He didn't say he wanted to join JUST because he was looking for firends.
Why are you assuming that Mr. Chad is looking to join the military because he pines for his fiancee' or is only turning to it in desperation?

He is looking at the military as an option because he feels like his life is going nowhere and is looking for some direction. He already said he has always loved the military. Skybird, you make it sound like he is inherently wrong for considering it, given his current state.
It was meant to be a bit harsh, and I'll stick to every single word of it: for several reasons that owe their existence to what he said about himself, and the fact that joining the military never should be an easy decision. Direction you can find in many other jobs as well, and if serving is what he wants, there are firefighters, policemen, medics, ambulance drivers, SAR rescue flyers... Being soldier is different to any of these, so he better is sure about his motives and has no illusions about what he is getting into. Soldiers - warriors! - kill and get killed, in this all branches of the armed forces are the same, call it what you want, this is what it comes down to. And this is what you should be clear about and have no illusions or stupid self-deceptions about. Nobody should get persuaded or confirmed to join the military. He should come to that all by himself. Only once he is into it and finds it is what he was looking for, you support him in that role, as a friend. Confirming or persuading him in advance is almost criminal negligence.

[UnderseaLcpl]

It was meant to be a bit harsh, and I'll stick to every single word of it: for several reasons that owe their existence to what he said about himself, and the fact that joining the military never should be an easy decision. Direction you can find in many other jobs as well, and if serving is what he wants, there are firefighters, policemen, medics, ambulance drivers, SAR rescue flyers... Being soldier is different to any of these, so he better is sure about his motives and has no illusions about what he is getting into. Soldiers - warriors! - kill and get killed, in this all branches of the armed forces are the same, call it what you want, this is what it comes down to. And this is what you should be clear about and have no illusions or stupid self-deceptions about. Nobody should get persuaded or confirmed to join the military. He should come to that all by himself. Only once he is into it and finds it is what he was looking for, you support him in that role, as a friend. Confirming or persuading him in advance is almost criminal negligence.

As much as I like skybird I am not even going to get in to this. This is Chad's personal issue. If he would like to contact me via pm I will describe in full detail the horrors of war and the likleyhood he will see them based on his choice of occupational specialty.

I am just trying to help him make a decision. As you said, skybird, the choice is his. I have related my experiences to him so he can judge whether or not it is right for him.

The reason I found your post a bit abrasive was because it sounded like an attack on his personal character. To me, it sounded like you were saying he had no friends and that his reasons for joining were wrong.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree there but I can assure you that, should Chad decide to ask me for advice, I will not omit any details concerning what he will encounter in his service, be it in a non-combat or combat arm of our forces

Firstly, saying that joining the military will result in one's premature death, even eventually, is nonsense. Most of the military never even sees combat. Once again I am happy to offer advice if Chad chooses to look at a combat occupational specialty.

I will not post details concerning combat specialties here. And I am sure that other members have even more horrific stories than mine. If Chad is interested I will tell him of my experiences.

Overall, your post seemed to indicate that he was intersted in the military because of personal failures. That is simply not true. From what I gather, our friend is simply looking for some direction and has considered the military, I will offer him all the advice I can on that option.

[Airmail]

Im the same ages as you mate, the trick is not to focus your life on having girlfriends. Went through a period when I was 18/19 (I actually somehow ended up in the Foreign Legions basic training before I ran off...having wondered around much of Europe by myself which incidently made me stronger and happier with being alone and far less reliant on other people) very much like youself. I have found the way out of it is to find a subject I really enjoy which for me is Orthodontistry/Craniofacial issues and become an expert at it. I want to become the damn best at what I do so when I'm older I can have a nice old house in the country. Somewhere in the Cotswolds or anywhere as pretty. I want to be able to send my childeren to a great school and watch them grow up. I want to do well so that I can bag a wife thats on the same level as me. Whats more is I want to make a difference.

Quit thinking about the women, get an education. Go to college. Quit giving a damn what other people think about you and go out of your way to be the best. Work first, falling in love second.

From my travelling about I've found that it's far easier to make friends when you hit the road and go to some place new than it is to make them in an area you've lived in for a while. If you get the balls to just get up and leave you soon find new friends. You have to find jobs on the way and places to stay, this forces you to meet people. Then your invited out to go for drinks in the evenings. Get some balls. I've been to places you havn't been to yet, depression which I can only describe as utter and total blackness. Getting hospitalized for anxiety attacks. You might want to guess why I want my career to be in Orthdontistry..

In the Navy you'll just have to pick up soap and mop floors. Join the Paratroopers if you want more adrenalin and skirts.

[Airmail]

Oh and If you love the sea did you know you can get posts onboard merchant ships, cruise ships or even yeah thats right Tall Ships/Luxury Yaughts without any qualifications and you can even get qualifications from doing them.

Would mean your not tied to a military contract ;)

You don't always need direction in your life, be patient! I had no direction and went rambling round Europe, and North Africa. I set off with next to no money working along the way, going where ever the hell I felt like. I learnt more about myself and funnily enough came back after what was labelled a "cop out" by my parents with more direction than ever. The whole experience changed me, the memories of the people and events that happend along the way will always stay with me.

"Not all those who wander are lost" Tolkien

[SUBMAN1]

Man, I have to be 30 to know how dumb I am? I didn't think I could get any dumber. That's depressing:cry:It gets worse! :D :rotfl: :lol:

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

@ Subman1: You are so absolutely right on the "know-it-all" thing. Awhile back on these very boards I repeated the old phrase "The more I learn, the less I know." Somebody came back with "That makes no sense." The only reply I could think of was "That's because you're young and still know everything.":rotfl:I hear ya! The older I get, the more I realize that I don't know squat! I mean I'm good in some areas, namely electronics for instance, but ya know someone is always got a leg up on me in some form or fasion there and the older I get, I realize that someone will 'always' have a leg up on me in some form or fasion in any field I happen to be in, regardless if people think I am the person that knows it all or not!

I chock it up to life. You may be the best shot, but someone out there can out do you!

-S

[Skybird]

As much as I like skybird I am not even going to get in to this.

Why the reply, then? ;)

The reason I found your post a bit abrasive was because it sounded like an attack on his personal character. To me, it sounded like you were saying he had no friends and that his reasons for joining were wrong.

No. He indicated that he is still young, that his fiance has left him, that he feels confused or irritated of seeing not where his life is going to, and that he finds it hard to bear being alone at home. and this is what I am basing on in my reply. I should add that as a former meditation teacher for several years, and a former psychologist, I have been adressed by questions like this quite often, and see him also from a perspective of these former experiences, therefore. I mention therapeutical cruelty - and I meant it like that, exactly.

I also wonder that people get public about such private things and make it known to anonymous masses of foreign people they know nothing about. this again is no attack on him, but it influences my impression of the situation and age he is in.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree there but I can assure you that, should Chad decide to ask me for advice, I will not omit any details concerning what he will encounter in his service, be it in a non-combat or combat arm of our forces

You must assure me nothing, since we have no quarrel with each other. Chad is free to do whatever he wants, and if he asks it is only fair to give him the answers he asks for. He does not need neither me nor you to tell hiom that he is free to do what he wants - he only needs to take that freedom, and must not allow anybody trying to persuade him into something. I wanted him to become aware of that, if he isn't. And I just want to make him aware of some things that I already have mentioned now, that self-recognition is not possible without accepting to bear one's own presence and be alone a while, that seeking people can be a trick to avoid hurting questions and doubts, and that becoming so public about details of his life possibly already is part of his answer he seeks. and this I say as a former psychologist. For me his posting and questions were not only techncially about the navy. If that would have been all, he would not have needed to post half of his biography.

Firstly, saying that joining the military will result in one's premature death, even eventually, is nonsense. Most of the military never even sees combat. Once again I am happy to offer advice if Chad chooses to look at a combat occupational specialty.

I think I made it clear what I think about this. I am no enemy of a military, I even vote in favour of having a strong mlitary (which makes me many enemies here in Germany). I just can'T stand it to present it like a job option like any other, and hiding it from people that as a soldier you have to consider that eventually you will find yourself in a situation were you are expected to kill and cause harm - or suffer the one or the other yourself. You call that nonsens - and I call it irresponsible that you call it nonsens. even a technician never touching a wepak nat the front - assists in killing getting done, and destructio0n. And he can become a taregt for the enemy as well. Being soldier is no adventure holiday, and its purpose is not to sing songs by the cmpafire and have a good time in the jungle. It is about preparing to kill and destroy, and eventually carry that out in reality. That's what the military is there for. Call it peacekeeoping, or limited operation, or surgical strike - it is killing and destroying, and getting killed and hurt, preparing for it, and planning for it. Monks, philantropists, idealists and friends of mankind should have no illusions about that.

Overall, your post seemed to indicate that he was intersted in the military because of personal failures. That is simply not true. From what I gather, our friend is simply looking for some direction and has considered the military, I will offer him all the advice I can on that option.

And I offered him a perspective that goes beyond the military, and referred him back to himself. I did not even indicate that I consider him to have failed in something, having a handicap, or being a loser, in no way I did - but if he is as young as he indicated (talking of schoolnotes somewhere), and while having indicated that the thing with his girl was something very serious, and that he does not feel comfortable to be left alone to himself and wants "action filling the silence" (I'll cut it short, yes) : then I would conclude that he really needs time and opportunity to become clear about some basic questions about himself, and that stories about battles and combat cruelties are not what he needs to get himself on track. nor is there any need to leave him in the belief that the military is the only option he has to find the answers to his confusion - a confusion that many people face during the late teenage years and early 20s.

And now i would encourage to leave Chad alone with the feedback he got. If you still think you have anything to sort out with me, do it per PM, please. I think that is only fair towards Chad. He can - and should! - make his own decisions, and if he wants to ask me or you anything, he certainly knows how to do that. As far as I am concerned, we could leave it to that. ;)

[SUBMAN1]

Yep, if you want my .02 cents worth. Maybe even a phone call to each other. Just post the numbers on email or PM. Wide open on the forums, everyone will call you....collect:oWhat's your number again? :D

-S

[Skybird]

Oh and If you love the sea did you know you can get posts onboard merchant ships, cruise ships or even yeah thats right Tall Ships/Luxury Yaughts without any qualifications and you can even get qualifications from doing them.

Would mean your not tied to a military contract ;)

You don't always need direction in your life, be patient! I had no direction and went rambling round Europe, and North Africa. I set off with next to no money working along the way, going where ever the hell I felt like. I learnt more about myself and funnily enough came back after what was labelled a "cop out" by my parents with more direction than ever. The whole expierence changed me, the memories of the people and events that heppend along the way will always stay with me.

"Not all those who wander are lost" Tolkien

:up:

If you want to build a ship
don't herd people together to collect wood
and don't assign them tasks and work,
but rather teach them to long for the
endless immensity of the sea.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[SUBMAN1]

It was meant to be a bit harsh, and I'll stick to every single word of it: for several reasons that owe their existence to what he said about himself, and the fact that joining the military never should be an easy decision. Direction you can find in many other jobs as well, and if serving is what he wants, there are firefighters, policemen, medics, ambulance drivers, SAR rescue flyers... Being soldier is different to any of these, so he better is sure about his motives and has no illusions about what he is getting into. Soldiers - warriors! - kill and get killed, in this all branches of the armed forces are the same, call it what you want, this is what it comes down to. And this is what you should be clear about and have no illusions or stupid self-deceptions about. Nobody should get persuaded or confirmed to join the military. He should come to that all by himself. Only once he is into it and finds it is what he was looking for, you support him in that role, as a friend. Confirming or persuading him in advance is almost criminal negligence.In a perfect world, you would not need the military. A little clue though - this is not the perfect world, nor will ever be.

What this will give him is it will make a man out of him, from self worth to respect. Something maybe you should look at too.

-S

[baggygreen]

So Chad have you taken up the offer to chat to USLC??

Venatore madethe same offer to me when i was in the midst of enlistment. Never got round to speaking directly to him, but the PMs and a couple of the links he provided were instrumental in me finally signing on the dotted line. I still owe him for the help he gave me, hope i can pay it back one day.

As far as career choice etc, look at it this way. If deep down you want it, and if you dont feel like you'll regret it, go for it. I had to enlist as a reservist for now because im planning a wedding myself and that'd be a bit tough to do from Timor, but I know I'll not regret that. I chose Army over airforce and navy because I knew i couldnt do the time away from home.

As far as women go, my high school sweetheart cheated on me with 3 of my mates, and then a few other blokes. I caught her out, and that was that. It wasn't pleasant, but i eventually got around to realising that I wasnt the problem, it was her, and i was better off. took a while, but i got there. Stayed single for a while, then like Kapitan said, out of the blue, like a bus (or a train in sydney!) one turned up (a friend of mine for several years) and now we're engaged. In that time between, i didn't really look for anyone, no flings or anything like that, io spent the time doing what I wanted to do.

All the best mate

[Airmail]

It was meant to be a bit harsh, and I'll stick to every single word of it: for several reasons that owe their existence to what he said about himself, and the fact that joining the military never should be an easy decision. Direction you can find in many other jobs as well, and if serving is what he wants, there are firefighters, policemen, medics, ambulance drivers, SAR rescue flyers... Being soldier is different to any of these, so he better is sure about his motives and has no illusions about what he is getting into. Soldiers - warriors! - kill and get killed, in this all branches of the armed forces are the same, call it what you want, this is what it comes down to. And this is what you should be clear about and have no illusions or stupid self-deceptions about. Nobody should get persuaded or confirmed to join the military. He should come to that all by himself. Only once he is into it and finds it is what he was looking for, you support him in that role, as a friend. Confirming or persuading him in advance is almost criminal negligence.In a perfect world, you would not need the military. A little clue though - this is not the perfect world, nor will ever be.

What this will give him is it will make a man out of him, from self worth to respect. Something maybe you should look at too.

-S
If he can get the balls and imagination he can make a man out of himself without needing the military. I think he should try other routes first unless he's totally sure he wants to join up. He could even try volountry helping clear up disasters. His problem seems to be a confidence one. He doesn't think he can make new friends without structure, thats how I interpreted his posts based on my own past expierences. (I had friends but like his they were busy, heading off in their own directions and leaving me in the dust) Learned helplessnes. He can get it back if he gets out there and forces himself into new situations.

[Skybird]

What this will give him is it will make a man out of him, from self worth to respect. Something maybe you should look at too.
Dummer Depp.
Somebody needing to refer to such stupid and pathetic phrases from scripts for B-movies can't be considered to be even a mannikin.

[Skybird]

Military maybe helps shaping men, but it surely doesn't make Men.
It's funny you mention St Exupery Skybird, I started reading his books when I was in the military and enjoying being there, and no long after I couldn't help it and had to say "screw you" to my Captain and got the hell out of there right away :)
Totally with Airmail on that one, but still, military can be good in some aspects. I guess Chad will have food for thoughts here and that's what matters.

Best of luck to you !
Ever read "Citadelle"? Grim, but so true. I recommended it several times, and people expected more of the kind like "The little prince" - and then laid down the book, totally discouraged.

Yes, me too covers Airmail on this.

[Frame57]

The two biggest mistakes I made in life was #1 Getting married too young. #2 Not staying in the Navy for 30. If you go in I HIGHLY recommend the Submarine Service for a myriad of reasons. I would do it in a heart beat. The best schools and training are available and you could get out with a full pension at a relatively young age. You should at least try to get an AA or AS in Math or Physics, it will help if you decide to become a "Nuke". Also the stakes are a little higher and they are more selective since the days of Reagan's 600 ship Navy. :up:

[PeriscopeDepth]

Dude, finish school first.

PD

[em2nought]

Navy boot camp, don't remember running anywhere.

Join the USMC and feel a part of something(teamwork), join the USN and feel like you're carrying that thing around on your back all by yourself. Enlisted is still a bit sub-human treated left over from days of sail IMHO.

There are alot of jobs in the USN where you don't get to kill anything (although there might be a few forum posters you'd like to look up in your travels). ;) The only guys I know that died at my commands in six years - One slipped on ice in town, one committed suicide, one keeled over on the dock with a heart attack.

If you're a hard worker, be able to deal with alot of people not being hard workers.

If you're a hard worker, be able to deal with little recognition or reward. Be able to deal with paper pushers getting more rewards than you(unless you become a paper pusher).

Sometimes being in foreign places can make you feel lonely, even in the company of other americans.

You do get to work with some cool toys.

Don't get a job where they might loan you to the army(think they've been doing some of that lately).

Get everything in writing from recuiter and if he fails to produce make sure you stand up for yourself and don't join.

[Frame57]

Aint this funny Chad. All these "fellows" telling you to not join the military, but live in a virtual game world that is all about it. Bottom line is this, if you want to eat dirt, join the Army or Marines. If you want a great education with better pay and opportunities Join the friggin Submarine service. Nothing compares to it. I was there for 12 years so I know what I am talking about and before that I was a USAR 12B10, and it sucked.... So I experienced the "ground pounder" side of things for 2 years, and there is NO comparison if you want the best opportunities that will help you when you get out of the service. When I got out of the Army, what was i qualified to do? Shoot people I guess and blow things up. When I got out of the Submarine service, it opened the doors for me to become a Biomedical engineer. There is the difference. You also can take college courses while you are in the sevice. I have been in two branches of the service totalling 14 years. If you want you can also PM me and I will give you the straight scoop on it.:up:

[JALU3]

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

However, being in shape helps. But I knew people who were in excellent physical shape, but couldn't take the mental pressure and molding that happens in BCT.

And I have to tell you, go into the military lightly. It either helps people mature, or breaks them. However, I would say it is always a positive thing.

So you're in college. One thing I did, I dropped out and enlisted, and then got my honorable. My recommendation is don't. I have buddies of mine who stayed in got their commissions.
I would recommend you to first get to know who you are, don't worry about being with someone else until you have found yourself. College gives you a lot of time to do that. So what if you are still at home, if you are working towards a goal of improving yourself. Part of that is education, but remember that that is only part of it.
Believe me, when you are happy with yourself, and when you have found yourself, you will find someone who wants to be with you for you, and not for who they think you are.
Also. If you are interested in the Military, there are other ways to do your part for your country, help you in maturization, without having to go active duty for 4 straight years. Look at the alternatives out there . . . there are many just as good as going active duty, regardless of the branch you choose.
ROTC (Army (http://www.goarmy.com/rotc/)/Navy (https://www.nrotc.navy.mil/)/AF (http://www.afrotc.com/))?
National Guard (http://www.1800goguard.com/)?
Simultanious Membership Program (http://www.rotc.monroe.army.mil/command/reserve_smpBnE.html)?
Army Reserve (http://www.goarmy.com/reserve/nps/index.jsp)?
Air Force Reserve (http://afreserve.com/)?
Marine Corps Reserve (http://www.marforres.usmc.mil/join/Default.asp)?
Air National Guard (http://www.goang.com/)?
Naval Reserve (http://www.navyreserve.com/)?
State Military Reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces)?

And if you enjoy the military life part time, it's always easier to go full time then the other way around. Furthermore there are educational benifits with going AR/NG route.

[Sailor Steve]

Most of what you need to consider has been said, so I'll just calm your mind on one thing: Don't worry about whether you're in shape or not. Boot camp will take care of that.

However, being in shape helps. But I knew people who were in excellent physical shape, but couldn't take the mental pressure and molding that happens in BCT.
I'll agree with that. The biggest downside of boot camp, as you've already heard, is the awareness that there is no escape and, as just mentioned, the pressure. Just remember that the goal of boot camp isn't to make you into a man, but to make you into a machine. The individuality returns when you get into a specialty school, but those first few weeks are specifically designed to make everyone as equal as possible. You wear the same clothes, and "you WILL fold them this way" (there is no "or else", you just do it). You march in step, both on the drill field and off, you do what you're told when you're told. That's the down side.

The up side is both positive and negative. The positive is that you will be sent to interesting places and, if you use your brain at all, be given interesting things to do. The negative is that while individual thinking can be needed, it's not usually encouraged. The military will guarantee that you always have a job, pay, food and shelter, so you very rarely have to worry about anything. They will also guarantee that you have a lot less freedom of thought, speech, action and movement than you're used to. It's a big tradeoff, and it's not for everybody. Myself, I miss my time at sea and wish I had stayed in on that account. On the other hand, while I miss the ocean, I don't miss the navy itself one single bit.

[Sailor Steve]

Very true. There are enough small-minded people in charge of things who don't like seeing anyone else succeed that the old saying is true:

You will be given crappy jobs to do. If you are diligent and do them well, your reward will be more crappy jobs.

[Chad]

Thank you all for your comments. I have pm'd several of you, and have been thinking deeply about this situation.

I have talked to both of my parents about this, my dad (who was not in the service) backs me up fully. My mom currently is indifferent.

Yesterday 2 navy recruiters came to my house and we sat at our kitchen table and talked, asked questions, and learned a lot. Both were really superior and great guys.

I have not made a decision, nor will I for a couple of months. The thought of actually joining gives me a feeling in my stomach of already accomplishing something I never thought I'd have.

I will stay in contact and keep everyone informed. I want a couple of months to sit on this and really think about what I want to do.

Again thanks,
Chad

[Schroeder]

Both were really superior and great guys.
They are always sending the great guys. The problem is how great will the guys be who are in charge of your unit? That won't be the nice shiny recruiters.

Always think of, that those guys are like a living commercial spot. They want to "sell" you something. So be careful and really think it through (I know you already wrote you would).:ping:

[Frame57]

That is true. Recruiters have "billets" to fill, and they want to meet that goal, but when and if you decide on waht you want to do, then you just tell the recruiter that. that is the only option on the table. He/She will try this little trick and tell you that once you are in you can then apply for that particular school etc.... Which is bull. So long as you score well on the ASVAB test you can pretty much get what you want. Even if they play hard ball and say, sorry you cannot do that, ask them why. Then walk out, and in afew days they will be calling you like they did you the worlds greatest favor and got what you wanted. :yep:

[Skybird]

Always think of, that those guys are like a living commercial spot. They want to "sell" you something.
Not really. It's more that they want you to sell yourself to them, so that they can own your a$$. To get it, they will make a lot of advertizing, like on TV.

Do you believe every advert you see on TV? The "whiter than white", the "brighter than bright", the "best of them all", and "two for the price of just one"? ;)

[SUBMAN1]

What this will give him is it will make a man out of him, from self worth to respect. Something maybe you should look at too. Dummer Depp.
Somebody needing to refer to such stupid and pathetic phrases from scripts for B-movies can't be considered to be even a mannikin.Wrong answer! I made that up as I was typing.

-S

[JALU3]

Thank you all for your comments. I have pm'd several of you, and have been thinking deeply about this situation.

I have talked to both of my parents about this, my dad (who was not in the service) backs me up fully. My mom currently is indifferent.

Yesterday 2 navy recruiters came to my house and we sat at our kitchen table and talked, asked questions, and learned a lot. Both were really superior and great guys.

I have not made a decision, nor will I for a couple of months. The thought of actually joining gives me a feeling in my stomach of already accomplishing something I never thought I'd have.

I will stay in contact and keep everyone informed. I want a couple of months to sit on this and really think about what I want to do.

Again thanks,
Chad

Did you ask them about Reserve/National Guard options? Have you talked to other branches? It is good to see all that is available . . . this way you can get the best choice for you when it comes time to decide. When you finally do remember to get your MOS and assignments in writing. Work on your physical fitness and take practice ASVABs to garuntee a higher score. The higher your score the more opertunities lay before you.

Don't be that one guy who is only smart enough to go Infantry, not that that isn't a respectable branch, and they do have the highest rate of promotion. And who cares that they call everone else POGs. If you want to be in the ****, go ahead, but I would recommend something more comfortable and that transfers better in the outside world (because there will be a time when you get back there).

Did you click on the links that I provided in my last post? Remember, they will not stop you from talking to other recruiters. And let them play the game against each other. And remember you can always go active from guard/reserve, not the other way around.

[Platapus]

NCO : great, I have a special assignment for smart guys like you, take that brush and go clean that sh!t !


This reminded me of a funny incident

There I was, no $hit..

Fresh out of basic, getting ready to start EOD school. Being fresh out of basic awaiting a school slot, our lives revolved around doing details.

Background: EOD is well known for being rather earthy and rough around the edges.

There was a common latrine that needed cleanin. Our mission was clear - clean that $hitter in the name of democracy!

One of my fellow students actually walked up to the SNCO and said

"I was an honour graduate from basic, would you like me to take charge of the cleaning detail."

Huge tactical error. Scarred up crusty EOD SNCOs are not normally impressed with honour grads. After basic, honour grad means precisely dick. Being an honour grad surely won't get someone out of cleaning a latrine.

The SNCO told the troop that because he was a honour grad that he would have the honour of being in charge of the detail. The SNCO then ordered the rest of the students out of the detail and ordered us to sit down and watch the honour grad clean up the latrine by himself.

He never mentioned being honour grad again.

Ahh the good ole days, man they sucked. :yep:

[Schroeder]

Not really. It's more that they want you to sell yourself to them, so that they can own your a$$. To get it, they will make a lot of advertizing, like on TV.
They want to sell you the idea that the military is the greatest thing on earth and that you should sign up.;)

[Platapus]

Always remember the base mission of the military. The recruiter can talk all about the jobs, the education, the benefits, the honour.........

Never never forget that the base mission of the military is

1. To kill people (or to enable others to kill people) People to include adversary military, civilians, mothers, children, people who have done you no wrong.

2. Sacrifice your life to enable the killing of people.

This is what the military is about. You can be a cook, Public Relations guy, even Intel, but when that weapon is thrust in your hands and the order is to hit the perimeter, the mission of the military gets real basic real fast.

Before anyone signs on the dotted line, they need to make sure that they are totally OKwith these two missions of the military.

Everyone hopes that they will never be involved in 1 or 2, but that is what you are agreeing to do on behalf of your country.

During the first gulf war we had some troops with problems with 1 and 2. "Hey, I only signed up for the educational benefits" Well the United States government aint that nice nor generous. For every benefit that the United States government offers their military members comes with a price. Sometimes the country calls in that debt.....and you have to pay up.

So please, before anyone signs up, please consider the base mission of the military. I put in just over 20 years and never forgot what my "duty" truly was in the military.

This is why the military is not a life for everyone.