The Great Torpedo Pistol Debate

[TheDudTorpedo]

Hello again All,

Well, I have been well and truly seduced by SH3 - what a marvelous game! Currently I am experimenting with different depth settings on my torpedo's depending on the drafts of the various ships encountered, and am having a satisfying amount of success. This leads me on to my question:

Which pistol setting in general is considered more reliable, in terms of damage delivered?

I've given this some thought, and am inclined to go with a 'Magnetic' setting as I still stand a chance of damage or a kill when the AOA is not as perpendicular to the target course as with an 'Impact' setting.

Would anyone like to offer comment? Im interested in both the modelled aspect of the game, as well as in reality (or at least the reality of the 1940's).

Thanks,
TDT

[KeptinCranky]

Right, that thread title with that username... that has to get a response :lol:
:know:
As for the game, it depends heavily on which mods your using (if any). In the stock game, from what I can recall, magnetic is the way to go with anything bigger than really small, and definitely for warships. With the possible exception op the C3 cargo, an impact eel at 5m fired when the front of the bridge reaches the vertical line of your crosshair will kill those with 1 eel almost every time.

With (super)mods added it becomes a different ball game, they have different damage models and malfunction situations. I can only speak for GWX here with any authority.
For GWX it's best to go for Impact before say september 1940, because the problems that plagued the Germans with the early torpedoes are moddeled. and magnetic eels are far more prone to malfunction. Later on it becomes a matter of what is practical, impact for the good angle on bow shots, magnetic for the bad AOBs, oh and for Battleships, those have serious side armour and torpedo bulges and whatnot, but 2 or even 1 well-placed magnetic eel can sink them.

As for the historical perspective, it wasn't in fact a matter of choice, eels came with either an impact detonator or magnetic influence and impact, and it wasn't possible to flick a switch to select like in the game. to make adjustments the eel had to be opened up and adjusted. Bit of a bother if it's in the tube and there's this big ole merchant about to cross your bow.
The early German eels had problems with depth-keeping, which showed up most dramatically during the Norway campaign, after that Captains were ordered to only use the Impact detonator and remove the magnetic until late 1940 when the problem had been fixed.

I'm not too sure about what's best in game, I prefer to use impact except for when the situation calls for it. I try to avoid using magnetics in bad weather or long range because they're more likely to malfunction. So for reliability, choose Impact

[Frank0001]

Well said, CptKranky basically sums it all up :up:

Also, in heavy weather, it's better to use the impact pistol. Since the ships tend to raise and lower perhaps even 2 meters in the water, when at high seas.
The magnetic torpedo will easily miss that way.
The advantage is that 1 hit on the bow or stern with an impact torp, the high seas will usually do the rest and sink even large merchants.

[danurve]

Early war wakeless technology - what a Gem.

Nothing like due time intercepting a jucy target with can't miss aob, and watching your shot pre-detonate.
Yeah baby. :rock: :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

I can't add to KeptinCranky's summation except for a correction:
The early German eels had problems with depth-keeping, which showed up most dramatically during the Norway campaign, after that Captains were ordered to only use the Impact detonator and remove the magnetic until late 1940 when the problem had been fixed.
The magnetic pistol tended to pre-detonate, and was withdrawn in 1940, and was not re-instituted until 1943.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTGER_Notes.htm

[KeptinCranky]

Really! :o That late... I had no idea :oops:

and Danurve.. what about firing 4 eels at HMS Hood, at long distance (4km) and heavy weather and watching them predetonate 1 by 1 with the last only meters away from the ship :damn:

or possibly worse...firing two FAT eels at a 4-stacker Liner and watching them curve away about 50 meters short because in my haste I forgot to set the straight leg correctly... DOH!... to add insult to injury, their search pattern managed to just miss the same ship 3 more times :doh:

[predavolk]

Even later in the war, I think the pistols are too effective from a historical PoV. I've almost never had a dud impact. Generally, I use impact unless AoB prevents me from doing so. The benefit of using a magnetic for more damage is negligible in GWX, particularly if you target the bow or stern of the ship. If the AoB is more than 30 degrees from 90, I choose a magnetic to avoid the impact just bouncing off the target (which has happened a few times to me). But I've taken heavy cruisers with just two impact torpedos, so even the big warships go down quickly enough with impacts.

As an extra question- what depth do you set your impacts to? I've used 2 and 3M, and have generally settled on 2M. 1M for harbor attacks or if I really want to see the wake for subsequent aiming purposes.

[danurve]

K_C; that would certainly make for some interesting combination cuss words :hulk:

predavolk; When I use I/P generaly about 1-1&1/2m above target keel. With two shots trying for the same poi. For the most part I gave up on harbor raids but early war often finds my viib in shallow waters, I use the same tactic.

[Frank0001]

I generally try to hit some 4-5 meters above the ship's depth, but I'm somehow weary of setting torpedoes to 2 or even 1 meter. Something tells me the things are more prone to pre-detonate when they are tossed out of the waves at that depth!

I'm not sure if that's modelled, but I'm still cautious about that
But basically, the lower you set your impact-depth, the longer time water will gush inside the ship I believe. Except with high waves of course.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Impact pistol FTW. All merchants worth bothering about are 3m. All destroyers are 1.5
Very, very rarely will this ever fail in GWX 2.1
Sure it may take 2 torpedoes to sink a ship you could have sunk with one mag, but I have found an overall aggregate savings of torpedoes when using impact fuses.
This is primarily due to 1) premature detonations and 2) the fact that it is harder to set up a really effective magnetic torpedo solution that will traverse the beam of the ship. This is doubly true when the target zigzags or weather is poor.
The only time I use mags is against battleships because they are as wide as some ships are long and I don't have to worry much about the torpedo exploding anywhere other than directly under the ship.

[KeptinCranky]

Depth settings for impact I use 4 meters as standard, except for shallow vessels, 2m for DDs and 1 meter for those annoying small tankers that have a hull like a bathtub made to have eels bounce off :shifty:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Depth settings for impact I use 4 meters as standard, except for shallow vessels, 2m for DDs and 1 meter for those annoying small tankers that have a hull like a bathtub made to have eels bounce off :shifty:

Or those damn flower class corvettes! For a draft of 5.4 m they are annoyingly unaffected by impact fuse in rough seas.
I must agree, however, that looking up the target in the recognition manual is too slow and bothersome for my taste.

[Parkera]

Depth settings for impact I use 4 meters as standard, except for shallow vessels, 2m for DDs and 1 meter for those annoying small tankers that have a hull like a bathtub made to have eels bounce off :shifty:

Or those damn flower class corvettes! For a draft of 5.4 m they are annoyingly unaffected by impact fuse in rough seas.
I must agree, however, that looking up the target in the recognition manual is too slow and bothersome for my taste.

Save time by clicking on the word 'SHIP' on the notepad in uzo or periscope view and it auto opens the Recognition manual on that ship. Works even with weapons officer assist off etc...

[KeptinCranky]

Yes, Parkera is right, that's the way to do it :up:

I don't anymore though, I know almost all the ship's drafts by heart from having played this game so much :D

[TheDudTorpedo]

Thanks for all the advise and feedbacks guys - very interesting, and it seems that 'Impact' is generally the way to go. The views on depth settings is valuable too.

By the way, Im still playing the standard SH3 v1.4, but will be trying GWX as soon as I felt I have mastered the vanilla version.

Thanks again.

[rifleman13]

Thanks for all the advise and feedbacks guys - very interesting, and it seems that 'Impact' is generally the way to go. The views on depth settings is valuable too.

By the way, Im still playing the standard SH3 v1.4, but will be trying GWX as soon as I felt I have mastered the vanilla version.

Thanks again.
Just don't forget to open the tubes when you're about to fire.:up:

It just messes up your firing solution!:damn:

AND...

Welcome aboard!:arrgh!:

[Ping Panther]

The concern of opening up tubes in advance of ordering an eel to fire to keep the aiming solutions at their best I understand, I always wondered if GWX simulates the effects that cruising with open tubes may actually create that I could imagine:

1. Do open tubes that are not yet fired create water turbulence that would give away a u-boat position (hydrophone detections), more than when closed up?
2. Do open open tubes take an effect on u-boat propulsion power use as well? :hmm:

[raymond6751]

I don't know what GW has put in, but I would doubt that opened tubes would have much effect on movement. Firstly, you are likely going slow in prep for an attack. At slow speeds, the tubes would not be a concern.

It is my understanding that tubes are flooded before opening, hence the fact that they are open won't create turbulence.

The game is not, I don't think, so sophisticated that sonar would hear the tubes being opened. The factors that they use would be things like sea state, target speed, depth, skill/experience of the listener, year/nationality of the listener. Perhaps the year/nationality/type of target too.

[von hally]

Thanks for all the advise and feedbacks guys - very interesting, and it seems that 'Impact' is generally the way to go. The views on depth settings is valuable too.

By the way, Im still playing the standard SH3 v1.4, but will be trying GWX as soon as I felt I have mastered the vanilla version.

Thanks again.



You are in for one hell of a treat mate.

playing the standard version is a good idea.....you'l appreciate gwx even more!!

but believe me...when you do upgrade.....youl be amazed.....like a whole new game all over again!!!!......oh and a little harder:know:

[Sailor Steve]

1. Do open tubes that are not yet fired create water turbulence that would give away a u-boat position (hydrophone detections), more than when closed up?
2. Do open open tubes take an effect on u-boat propulsion power use as well? :hmm:
The answer to both questions is no, there is no in-game effect. Even more important is the danger of having the tubes open if you dive deeper 25 meters or so. The outer doors open outward, and at greater depths the pressure makes the seal stronger, just like the hatches (Johann could never have opened that hatch anyway). The inner doors open inward, and if the outer doors were open the pressure would likely force the inner doors open as well, and that could really dampen everyone's spirits.

As for an escort's soundman hearing your tube doors open - well, if he's listening that closely he's already heard your propellors.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Save time by clicking on the word 'SHIP' on the notepad in uzo or periscope view and it auto opens the Recognition manual on that ship. Works even with weapons officer assist off etc...

Good tip but you underestimate my laziness. I would much rather not even bother with depth.

[Ping Panther]

Even more important is the danger of having the tubes open if you dive deeper 25 meters or so. The outer doors open outward, and at greater depths the pressure makes the seal stronger, just like the hatches (Johann could never have opened that hatch anyway). The inner doors open inward, and if the outer doors were open the pressure would likely force the inner doors open as well, and that could really dampen everyone's spirits.
Thanks Sailor Steve. That's the sort of detail to the concerns a u-boat crew would have that make it all so continuously interesting here.

[Sailor Steve]

It's also one of the funny parts of the game. When I attack I usually open all the doors manually so I don't have to wait for them to open before I fire each tube. One game I dove deep and when I realized they were still open I tried to close them..."Cannot open doors below 25 meters!"

I'm not trying to open them, you stupid machine, I'm trying to close them!:damn: :rotfl:

[looney]

The tube doors close when you select another tube not?

[KeptinCranky]

Yes, unless you manually open them with the switches that are near the tdc, I think..

I recall someone posting how to shoot a rapid fire single shot salvo that way, but I'm not sure what the context was