The Truth about ANWR

[SUBMAN1]

Tired of misinformation? Do you really think drilling in ANWR will disrupt Alaska's pristine landscapes? How much land are we talking about? What does it look like? How much oil is really there? This video should answer all of those questions and more:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FiwZzj_z7yE

-S

PS. Why do the tree huggers really care about an area without any trees at all? :D

[Enigma]

Tired of misinformation?

Yes.


.....Could you please knock it off?

[jeremy8529]

Well, that video has a very strong bias for sure, which could lead me to believe that a few truths could be stretched to fit the creators needs. :down:

Now, this is my opinion on energy, we should drill, for the immediate 10-15 years, but we should look for an alternative most diligently, while we are at it. I think that fossil fuels should be reserved mainly for aviation, domestic cargo, seafaring trade and military uses. Basically machinery in which it would not be practicle to run on Hydrogen, or other alternatives should be the ones that use it. While transportation and other light machinery should use whatever comes up in the next few years whether it turns out to be Hydrogen, methane, or pure electric. Basically in this way, we don't waste all of our fuels on trucks and cars, instead we should use it on things that can't live without it. I think in this way we could lower the cost of fossile fuels for the use of transportation of food and trade goods . :know:

I noticed the video said, that on the most conservative estimates we have 60 years of fossil fuels left, now who ever made the video would probaly be dead by then, i certainly plan on being alive and well.:sunny:

[SUBMAN1]

Tired of misinformation?
Yes.


.....Could you please knock it off?Obviously you didn't watch the video. :p

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Well, that video has a very strong bias for sure, which could lead me to believe that a few truths could be stretched to fit the creators needs. :down:

Now, this is my opinion on energy, we should drill, for the immediate 10-15 years, but we should look for an alternative most diligently, while we are at it. I think that fossil fuels should be reserved mainly for aviation, domestic cargo, seafaring trade and military uses. Basically machinery in which it would not be practicle to run on Hydrogen, or other alternatives should be the ones that use it. While transportation and other light machinery should use whatever comes up in the next few years whether it turns out to be Hydrogen, methane, or pure electric. Basically in this way, we don't waste all of our fuels on trucks and cars, instead we should use it on things that can't live without it. I think in this way we could lower the cost of fossile fuels for the use of transportation of food and trade goods . :know:

I noticed the video said, that on the most conservative estimates we have 60 years of fossil fuels left, now who ever made the video would probaly be dead by then, i certainly plan on being alive and well.:sunny:I'm all for an alternative fuel source, but we are no where near ready to do this. $5 a gallon gas is the dumbest idea our Congress has come up with yet. We did this to ourselves. We need to pass legislation to not only open up drilling, but to put incentive on alternative energy sources. And biofuel is not the answer - that makes problems worse!

We need to be free of all the red tape!!!

Hydrogen is a wonderful idea, but it is no where near ready for the mainstream. Its biggest hinderance are both storage in the vehicle, and the cost in energy to convert it into a fuel.

-S

PS. I challenge any person to provide one good reason why ANWR shouldn't be opened up to drilling?

[Tchocky]

Reason - It would make no appreciable difference. At all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/

Of course, it helps if you lie (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806180007?lid=382211&rid=9747516) about it.

[August]

Reason - It would make no appreciable difference. At all.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/

Of course, it helps if you lie (http://mediamatters.org/items/200806180007?lid=382211&rid=9747516) about it.

So maybe it won't lower gas prices Tchocky, but it just might get us off our foreign oil dependency. That USED to be worthy goal. You don't think so?

[Tchocky]

I think it's a great idea to reduce dependency on a single region. It doesn't make sense for any country to be so dependent. France really made a difference by going almost totally nuclear.
But the scale of energy imports and the size of the ANWR mean that it would make no appreciable difference at all. Drilling there wouldn't get America off of foreign oil.
As part of a wide-scale refocusing of energy supply, then it may. But I don't see that happening.
By 2025, ANWR would reach full flow of 876,000 barrels per day. By then, if energy patterns continue, the US will be importing 16 million barrels per day.

A drop in the bucket? Barrel?

[PeriscopeDepth]

I think it's a great idea to reduce dependency on a single region. It doesn't make sense for any country to be so dependent. France really made a difference by going almost totally nuclear.
But the scale of energy imports and the size of the ANWR mean that it would make no appreciable difference at all. Drilling there wouldn't get America off of foreign oil.
As part of a wide-scale refocusing of energy supply, then it may. But I don't see that happening.
By 2025, ANWR would reach full flow of 876,000 barrels per day. By then, if energy patterns continue, the US will be importing 16 million barrels per day.

A drop in the bucket? Barrel?
I agree, a drop in the bucket. I still think it's worthwhile though.

PD

[Enigma]

Agreed, drop in the bucket. Besides, we should spend that time money and focus on Alt. fuels. The repercussions outweigh the productivity/outcome of the project.

PS. I challenge any person to provide one good reason why ANWR shouldn't be opened up to drilling?

I'm not the one to ask. Try National Congress of American Indians, the Gwich'in, or the Inupiat. Oh, and it's a protected national wildlife refuge. To some of us, that isn't a foot note or an aside.

[Zachstar]

The truth about ANWR

It sucks

[August]

I think it's a great idea to reduce dependency on a single region. It doesn't make sense for any country to be so dependent. France really made a difference by going almost totally nuclear.
But the scale of energy imports and the size of the ANWR mean that it would make no appreciable difference at all. Drilling there wouldn't get America off of foreign oil.
As part of a wide-scale refocusing of energy supply, then it may. But I don't see that happening.
By 2025, ANWR would reach full flow of 876,000 barrels per day. By then, if energy patterns continue, the US will be importing 16 million barrels per day.

A drop in the bucket? Barrel?

It's not just ANWR, it's the Dakota fields, gulf of Mexico, Pacific coast. We have a lot of oil if we'd just let ourselves drill for it.

[jeremy8529]

Hmm, while ANWR is not THE solution it is PART of the solution, that is just one site, but it could set the pace for more new oil fields. One of the fears I have is this, we get the price of fuel down for maybe 3-6 years, and then we just quit researching alt. fuels because the market for them just dies. Right now, in the past few years, we have gone so far in RD for new and more efficient cars. If gas was .20 a gallon, we would not have made these achievements. I want to see a world, were gas cost maybe 2USD a gallon, and we can pull 60-80mpg out of the average car, but you can't have it both ways.

Another note, and possibly a quite nasty can of worms as well, if it is the congressmen that are stopping us from doing what is necessary, what stops us from calling/writing them in mass, and threatening to not re-elect/de-throne them? Subsim petition anyone?

[August]

To some of us, that isn't a foot note or an aside.

That's not really fair. When gas was <$2.00 a gallon i was all in favor of keeping our nations oil in the ground. Sort of like keeping it in the bank so to speak. But if these gloom and doomers are correct we're running out and if we're to have any hope to keep our civilization running long enough to develop those fancy alternate fuels you're talking about we better get busy drilling.

[Enigma]

I dont see it as a solution. I see it as a band aid. With the potential for disasterous results.

[Enigma]

That's not really fair. When gas was <$2.00 a gallon i was all in favor of keeping our nations oil in the ground. Sort of like keeping it in the bank so to speak. But if these gloom and doomers are correct we're running out and if we're to have any hope to keep our civilization running long enough to develop those fancy alternate fuels you're talking about we better get busy drilling.

I hear ya. You share the mindset of the majority of Americans. Polls show that before the gas price hikes, the majority didn't want to drill. Today, a slight majority wants to drill. I just dont feel this will buy us the time we desire, and that the rescources such a project would demand would be better utilized in other areas, such as alt. fuels.

In a somewhat bad comparison: I'd prefer to keep our civil liberties intact and run the risk of getting blown up on an airplane instead of squandering funds on the absurd illusion of security provided by the NTSB. Just as I'd prefer to pay $4 a gallon and search for alternative progressive answers rather than drill, and possibly destroy lands we have deemed protected. Not to mention the toll on the above mentioned peoples....

To clarify: I hate the price of gas. But we are now paying what my relatives in Europe have paid for years. We are a spoiled people. There are betteer ways to spend our money, to invest in our future, rather than provide a temporary fix or band aid. Maybe one day drilling in Alaska will become our only option, but we are nowhere near that yet. The datum is yet to shift.

Seems as though both McCain and Obama are against drilling, although Mccain has said he'll review the material again. I'd say that land is safe for at least another 4 years....

[August]

I see it as more than just the cost of gas Enigma. I believe we need to be energy self sufficient as a matter of national security. Our wealth is pouring out of this country and all too often right into the pockets of those who would destroy or enslave us. I'd pay 10 bucks a gallon if we would stop doing that.

In general we're a big enough country with enough natural resources, expertise and space that there is little we should have to import. If transportation costs become so expensive that it becomes cheaper to build, grow, drill, etc, it here, putting our people to work doing it, then that to me is a good thing in the long run.

[SUBMAN1]

I think it's a great idea to reduce dependency on a single region. It doesn't make sense for any country to be so dependent. France really made a difference by going almost totally nuclear.
But the scale of energy imports and the size of the ANWR mean that it would make no appreciable difference at all. Drilling there wouldn't get America off of foreign oil.
As part of a wide-scale refocusing of energy supply, then it may. But I don't see that happening.
By 2025, ANWR would reach full flow of 876,000 barrels per day. By then, if energy patterns continue, the US will be importing 16 million barrels per day.

A drop in the bucket? Barrel?Thats 1:16th that won't be needed to be imported and only 1 part of a bigger picture that can be implemented - oil shale, tar sands, coastal florida, the gulf, coal to oil. We have the capability to get rid of foreign oil alltogether and live comfortably. You are simply talking about 1 peice of the puzzle, and its and important piece.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

I dont see it as a solution. I see it as a band aid. With the potential for disasterous results.What? What is disaster are you talking about? Watch the video already. There is nothing there. You are spilling FUD and its coming out your nose and ears!

-S

[SUBMAN1]

I see it as more than just the cost of gas Enigma. I believe we need to be energy self sufficient as a matter of national security. Our wealth is pouring out of this country and all too often right into the pockets of those who would destroy or enslave us. I'd pay 10 bucks a gallon if we would stop doing that.

In general we're a big enough country with enough natural resources, expertise and space that there is little we should have to import. If transportation costs become so expensive that it becomes cheaper to build, grow, drill, etc, it here, putting our people to work doing it, then that to me is a good thing in the long run.A man with a brain. Why are people like you becoming a rarity? To be left these days is to lack one completely. The left is so condradictory and hypocritical these days that it hurts to actually think about it. Some examples:

* Can't have Nukes (in power generation) - dangerous.
* Can't have coal - hydrocarbon burning is bad
* Can't have gas for cars - CO2 might result
* How about electric cars? - Where do you think the energy comes from to charge them up?
* Can't drill for oil in Alaska - Might hurt the environment how? Even though some estimates put the amount of oil here at 1 to 2 times Saudi Arabias reserves!
* Can't drill for oil off the Cali coast - Looks ugly!
* Can't drill for oil in the Gulf - Might hurt the environment, but China is setting up shop along side Mexico! They are happy to take it for us in intercational waters!
* Can't drill off the Florida coast - China is more than happy to set up shop instead
* Can't get the oil shale in Utah - Even though more oil than Saudi Arabia has exists here (proven fact)
* Can't take oil from the tar sands since it might hurt the environment - Canada has no problem with taking it, and is draining our side of the border too!

* Can't burn or use any fuel since any fuel will harm the environment somehow, But they just don't how, but they know it, somehow! :D :hmm:

I could go on with this list all day, but the point is, has the left ever thought about what it is exactly that they are saying? I think they simply spew rhetoric that they listen to from their leaders and never even think about what it is they are saying.

Do they want to put America into the stone age? They are doing a damn fine job of it! And then they whine about gas prices - its hallarious! :D

There is only one real alternative fuel and that is hydrogen. When we develope that, then they will complain that cars are making the street wet from the water that flow out of the tailpipe!

I just don't get it. I'm thinking it is time this world slip into the dark ages and to let it happen. It will wipe this sort of thinking off the face of the planet real fast.

-S

[Frame57]

Warmongering Oilgrubbing people like me are the catalyst for those who love Subsims and other combat genre games. Without us, you would be playing games that revolve around knitting and gardening. So, cherish us as we continue to decimate the planet....:stare:

[Enigma]

What? What is disaster are you talking about? Watch the video already. There is nothing there. You are spilling FUD and its coming out your nose and ears!

Your video has a heavy bias.

To you, theres nothing there. To some people, maybe thats not the case. But I dont expect you, of all people, to understand that for a second. You are among the last people with whom I'd pretend a reasonable discussion would
be a viable option.

[SUBMAN1]

What? What is disaster are you talking about? Watch the video already. There is nothing there. You are spilling FUD and its coming out your nose and ears!
Your video has a heavy bias.

To you, theres nothing there. To some people, maybe thats not the case. But I dont expect you, of all people, to understand that for a second. You are among the last people with whom I'd pretend a reasonable discussion would
be a viable option. The South Pole is about as hospitable!

So you can see what we are looking at - This pic is the height of summer! There is nothing there!

http://www.geotimes.org/may03/anwr.jpg

As i said, you say somehow somewhere something could harm this ugly landscape, and I am still waiting for an answer! You have none - that is why.

-S

[Enigma]

I answered your question a whoooole bunch of posts ago. You chose to ignore it because it didn't fit into your incredibly warped idea of reality. That sounds like your problem, not mine.