Americans are creative when it comes to weaponry

[SUBMAN1]

Check the Army's prototype ultimate shotgun!

http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=170421&ESRC=airforce.nl

-S

[UnderseaLcpl]

I think we already had a round like this for the M551 Sheridan, our aluminum tank.

[Sailor Steve]

They had grape and canister rounds in the Civil War. The woodclad gunboat USS Conestoga made an incursion down the Mississippi to scout Confederate strongholds on September 10, 1861. Her report states that they were fired on by a southern regiment at one point. A barrage of grapeshot from four 8" Dalgrens sent the lot of them scurrying over the hill.

[joegrundman]

They had grape and canister rounds in the Civil War. The woodclad gunboat USS Conestoga made an incursion down the Mississippi to scout Confederate strongholds on September 10, 1861. Her report states that they were fired on by a southern regiment at one point. A barrage of grapeshot from four 8" Dalgrens sent the lot of them scurrying over the hill.

grape and cannister way, way, predate the ACW. They even predate the USA.

[Skybird]

They had grape and canister rounds in the Civil War. The woodclad gunboat USS Conestoga made an incursion down the Mississippi to scout Confederate strongholds on September 10, 1861. Her report states that they were fired on by a southern regiment at one point. A barrage of grapeshot from four 8" Dalgrens sent the lot of them scurrying over the hill.

grape and cannister way, way, predate the ACW. They even predate the USA.
Canistre rounds can be tried out in steel beasts pro. There it is the M1028 for the Abrams' 120mm gun, so in principal it could be used by german tanks as well. Comparable rounds are being tried in Sweden and Germany as well. They are considered "exotic", it is not yet decided if any of these nations will field them in quantities that gives them a status of "normally available ordanance". The americans maybe. Don't know it, but I am sure that the Israeli with their lots of house fighting experience also tried or have something like this.

Primary intention for this kind of ammo is infantry in houses (that's why the US army saw a need for this ammo type not before experiencing the Iraq war), but it should be enough to deliver a serious blow to APCs and IFVs as well, doing at least significant damage. Tanks: I would not bet my money on that it is clever to attract their attention by using this ammo.

[mcf1]

Wow, that thing could take out a hole infantry platoon, even if they're in spread formation

[Platapus]

Reminds me of some of the flechette rounds we had. Nasty stuff if you are on the pointy end.

[Skybird]

Wow, that thing could take out a hole infantry platoon, even if they're in spread formation
No it probably cannot. The opening angle of the spread pattern does not allow that. Also, the range is limited, roughly 500-600m. It is meant to take out those three, four infantrymen hiding inside that house behind the wall, and take them out quickly before they could let go their missile by shooting one round right into the window or through the wall, or for taking out some infantry some hundred meters away that might pose a threat by firing ATGMs or Panzerfaust.

The Swedes use a whole collection of different ammunition onboard the CV-9040 series of IFVs, every ammo type specialised for taking out armour, soft targets, helicopters, with delayed fuse, without, pointy shot or flechette type of shot etc. If you try that in SBP, you'll find ammo switching pretty much confusing at times, due to the flexible but complex ammo loading and switching options onboard the CV9040 - I always screw it up sooner or latter and thus load only twop types of ammo. Nothing beats the simplicity of the German Leopards in this regard, even the Abrams makes it slightly more complicated than necessary.

[Stealth Hunter]

Wow, that thing could take out a hole infantry platoon, even if they're in spread formation
No it probably cannot. The opening angle of the spread pattern does not allow that. Also, the range is limited, roughly 500-600m. It is meant to take out those three, four infantrymen hiding inside that house behind the wall, and take them out quickly before they could let go their missile by shooting one round right into the window or through the wall, or for taking out some infantry some hundred meters away that might pose a threat by firing ATGMs or Panzerfaust.

The Swedes use a whole collection of different ammunition onboard the CV-9040 series of IFVs, every ammo type specialised for taking out armour, soft targets, helicopters, with delayed fuse, without, pointy shot or flechette type of shot etc. If you try that in SBP, you'll find ammo switching pretty much confusing at times, due to the flexible but complex ammo loading and switching options onboard the CV9040 - I always screw it up sooner or latter and thus load only twop types of ammo. Nothing beats the simplicity of the German Leopards in this regard, even the Abrams makes it slightly more complicated than necessary.

Even then, I wouldn't want to be near that thing when it goes off...:huh:

[kurtz]

I'll just post this without a value judgement

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2225706.stm

Well okay, I will make a value judgement "moderation in war is imbecility" I think Jacky Fisher but he may have been quoting someone else, regarding u boats

[mcf1]

The new 40 million USD "toy" an excellent aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUcPyOLyWQc

[kurtz]

The new 40 million USD "toy" an excellent aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUcPyOLyWQc

I don't know why but the old WWI adage,"if Turkey attack us in the rear, will greece help?", sprang unbidden to mind when I read the bit about USA and greek co-operation at the start.

[Skybird]

The new 40 million USD "toy" an excellent aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUcPyOLyWQc

Looks like a Falcon in mating season! :lol:

[mrbeast]

I'll just post this without a value judgement

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2225706.stm

Well okay, I will make a value judgement "moderation in war is imbecility" I think Jacky Fisher but he may have been quoting someone else, regarding u boats

Its not the weapon itself but its the context in which the Israeli army uses these things. They seem to needlessly mow down a lot of civilians during their operations.

[Skybird]

I'll just post this without a value judgement

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2225706.stm

Well okay, I will make a value judgement "moderation in war is imbecility" I think Jacky Fisher but he may have been quoting someone else, regarding u boats

Its not the weapon itself but its the context in which the Israeli army uses these things. They seem to needlessly mow down a lot of civilians during their operations.
A lot of civilians not trying not to hide active fighters in their middle. ;)

[mrbeast]

I'll just post this without a value judgement

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2225706.stm

Well okay, I will make a value judgement "moderation in war is imbecility" I think Jacky Fisher but he may have been quoting someone else, regarding u boats

Its not the weapon itself but its the context in which the Israeli army uses these things. They seem to needlessly mow down a lot of civilians during their operations.
A lot of civilians not trying not to hide active fighters in their middle. ;)

Possibly elements of the Israeli army not giving a s**t if they waste a few Palestian civilians in the course of their ops?

[August]

Take a dead fighters weapon and LBE away and he becomes a dead civilian for counting purposes...

[kurtz]

Take a dead fighters weapon and LBE away and he becomes a dead civilian for counting purposes...
Quite right, you cease to be a citizen when you make yourself into a shield for 'combatants' this is what annoys me about 'bloody sunday'.

[SUBMAN1]

Old idea of course, but its the delivery vehicle that is creative, and the type. Its tungsten, so even reinforced objects should be having a bad day!

-S

[AntEater]

Problem is, ways of killing people seem to be the only way Americans are still creative:

- japanese companies develop exoskeletons to assist in heavy lifting and for disabled people
- US companies develop exoskeletons for future soldiers

The only innovations that recently came from the US are connected with weaponry.
Just like the soviet union, it seems the US centers its R&D more and more around armaments.
What does the US invent in the civilian field? Windows Vista????

[jeremy8529]

That is not completely true, what about NASA, we are one of the best in that field. The Hubble Space Telescope, and our missions to explore the Cosmos.