[QUE] Destroyer Escape-Tactics!

[urfisch]

Hey folks.

please help! i feel ashamed, and maybe it sounds unbelieveable, but still i havent been on service for more than 9 patrols / per career. in the last 3 years. and i started about 6-7 careers. lack of time due to work is one point, the will to mod the game another big one, which took the most of my "playtime". but if i found some time to play a few hours, one thing always kept annoying be: Destroyers!

if i had the bad luck to be discovered by them, they always hunt me down. why? i followed normal tactis, as described in original kriegsmarine tactis for uboats:

- attack at night
- hit n run, fire 4 torps and leave the battlefield as fast as you can
- leave on surface, if you can, at full flank speed
- if traced by a destroyer, dive to >150-200m and head for one direction just make little changes, to avoid accurate wb-runs
- run silent
- during wb-run give full flank and change course

...but all this didnt work in most cases. and i learned the following:

escape one destroyer - possible
escape two destroyers - hard/ impossible
escape three destroyers - impossible

but why? there must be more successful ways to led your boat to victory!

regards
urfisch

:hmm:

[rifleman13]

if i had the bad luck to be discovered by them, they always hunt me down. why? i followed normal tactis, as described in original kriegsmarine tactis for uboats:

- attack at night
- hit n run, fire 4 torps and leave the battlefield as fast as you can
- leave on surface, if you can, at full flank speed
- if traced by a destroyer, dive to >150-200m and head for one direction just make little changes, to avoid accurate wb-runs
- run silent
- during wb-run give full flank and change course

You just gave the ONLY options a u-boat commander has of escaping!:up:

It just keeps harder later in the war!:nope:

Just stay alert and keep in mind of SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!:arrgh!:

[UnderseaLcpl]

I have found destroyers remarkably easier to evade when they are underwater.

[Hondo314]

I have found destroyers remarkably easier to evade when they are underwater.

Well said!

[urfisch]

but not helpful...

:know:

[Brag]

You have to use tactics that work for the game.
Visit my kielman website. There are several articles there that will help you survive. :up:

[UnderseaLcpl]

but not helpful...

:know:

OK quick summation. Allow the destroyer to approach you at a right angle or close to it. This is what it wants to do so it is fairly easy.

1) Go to "slow ahead" trying to keep the DD as close to 90 or 270 degrees as possible.

2) When the DD closes to 200-400m go to flank ahead full rudder in the direction of the approaching DD.

3) The DD will swerve toward you and you may have to lower your periscope to avoid damage to it. However, the DD will swing his stern away from you, thus removing his stern racks as a threat.

4) as he passes astern of you go full rudder in the dierction he is travelling and slow to "slow ahead"

5) this will set you up for a bow shot as he steams around in a circle to line up for another run. Set a G7a steam torpedo for fast speed and set the fire angle for 0.

6) This is where it gets tricky. If the DD is a shallow-draft vessel like a frigate or corvette it is best to identify the vessel and use a magnetic torpedo. Otherwise use an impact at 1.5m depth Rough seas can also make it more difficult as it varies the draft of the target vessel but silent running at periscope depth with the periscope low should prevent them from detecting you in the first place.

7) Swivel your periscope to 10 degrees in the direction they approach from as they circle.

8) Open the tube as the appear in the periscope and fire just as their bow crosses the vertical line of your crosshair. (Assuming you have manual targetting on. Otherwise just wait for the green arrow.)

9) 90-95% of the time this will produce a crippling hit. If it doesn't, repeat the process and try using shallower depth setting or a different fuse after properly idenifying the ship. Most impact duds are caused by the slope of the ship's bottom. Most mag duds are cause by torps running too deep or heavy seas.

10) Against K-gun DD's this is harder but (see step 2) just as his bow comes abreast of you go full rudder in the direction he is travelling. You may still take some damage, repair flooding first to keep from sinking below Periscope depth.

11) Against hedgehog, K-gun DD's use a Zaunkonig acoustic torpedo with a "down the throat shot". Set it for impact at 1m. Immediately after firing go hard rudder to bring yourself perpendicular and slow to "slow ahead" If the torpedo misses go deep at flank speed and pray while spamming BOLD. Once you are deep slow to "slow ahead", go silent running and go flank as the bearing line passes over you.

12) If you choose to evade the idea is to let the DD pass over you at a right angle while you are at flank speed and changing depth. If you wish, use the Observation periscope to spot the DC's and evade. Its not realistic but neither are DD's using ASDIC immediately after a depth charge attack or at under 200m range.

13) These methods take practice, esp. when you confront multiple DD's. It is not unrealistic to use multiple carreers or saves to do this as real Kaleuns got to practice against German DD's.

Hope this helps a bit. If all this fails, go extra deep and spam BOLD. Remember that a blown attack is not worth salvaging. Escape and fight another day.

[urfisch]

interesting topic :)

to spend torps on a dd is not really what i want to do. and i guess, that it is not the only solution for a successful escape ;) but thanks a lot for the detailled explaination.

brag, your hinds are not bad. the tactis sound very promising...but i already tried a lot of it. changing course, speed and depth during a wb-raid is what i already have done instinctively. but in most cases without any lasting success...to deal with one dd is not the problem, even he might be experienced. but if there are two dd´s, the situation becomes critical. as they ping you over cross with active sonar, they always have a quite detailled picture of your position and drop endless and well placed series of bombs. and in most cases the 6th or 7th raid was successful to cause heavy damage with a lot of flooding in my boat. at least: no chance to escape...this cant be the way!!!

in ww2 the uboats also had to deal with 2 or more dd´s under water and escaped very often. and note: the most losses of boats where caused by planes, not by dd´s.

[urfisch]

any more ideas? anybody...

:hmm:

[Brag]

What works for me.
1) Go deep.
2) If I hear the DD on top of me and it drops wabos, I go full speed ahead to avoid them for about 30 seconds. I go quiet before all the bombs finish exploding.

What happens, the DDs must find you again, and again and again. I keep doing this until they lose me. It might take some time.

[Mush Martin]

its always a two edged sword go deep n quiet lose situational awareness.
stay up and be closer to the depth charges. each situation is different.
consider trying to stay at peri depth put up the scope and let the enemy see
it. they will steady up there courses to intercept, the steadier the enemy course the better your solution. fight. be more agresssive. evade one two or three attack four five or six.

Open on the escorts instead of the fatties.

theres always possibilities.
M

[Mittelwaechter]

Hi urfisch,

aren't you flying on the other board? :)

Well - some hints to make you live a little longer:

Avoid detection!

Never attract a DD.
Before you shoot at a guarded convoy have an escape route, away from the assumed DD searching path, showing your stern.
Shoot from far out! Going into the convoy attracts more than one DD to hunt you down. Don't try to pass the DD screen past 1940.
Deploy four eels and leave for the next planned point of attack.
Turn at flank, as long as the torpedos are on their way and the watchdogs are not aware of you.

Sometimes it's not possible to avoid detection?

Stay at PD!

You double your sensors (ears AND eyes) and you keep the opportunity for action.
You have a much smaller echo surface than at 200 meters down in the deep as long as you (try to) show your stern section - your six.
The worse the weather the worse the DD sensors work at PD! In heavy fog surface, and run at flank after a DC run - as long as the DDs have no RADAR. The heavy fog is a perfect cover.

Use the DC alley! (only possible at PD)

There is a safe alley between the DC stern rollers and the K-Gun splash point area on both sides of the DD.
In the early years, whenever a DD heads for you because he "sensed" you - head for him on the countercourse. Bow to bow - at PD! When 300 meters apart turn outward at flank and when close, turn back at countercourse.
This brings you some meters off the DD course - but parallel - into the safe alley.
(The shallow DC settings may even cause damage to his stern racks! Often happens with GWX)
Stay at flank and steer staight. The DD can't pick you up in his sternsection.
Observe him through the periscope and turn accordingly to his determination. If he turns to port after the run, you turn to port too! This keeps you a little longer in his sternsection and turns you away from his circle for the next run. Now try to keep him in your six. Use the periscope carefully.

If he picks you up again, turn to his course and let him close in at you, but at a small angle to enable you to head into the safe alley.
Stay slow until he is close - now speed up to flank and turn to the parallel course after a few seconds.
Try to get into the DC alley again! This time he may do some damage, because it is difficult to get your aftsection out of his stern rack path. Do some practice to time it right and have a repairteam asigned.

Go flank and watch what direction he turns. Turn into the other direction and try to show your six again. Of course you have to fall back to silent running and 1.8 knots/~ 90 rpm in both cases, when the DD turns over his 150° AOB. That's the point his sensors start to work again.

In all cases you have the opportunity to bite back if necessary.

Getting caught by a lonely DD is not avoidable from time to time.
In the later years you'll have some bolds to spend. I prefer to use them as cover "in the direct line". Now reported a DD I don't go head to head but turn away. I sneak under the waves at flank. No crashdive! I go down to PD and watch the DD coming after me. When lined up perfectly - we are on the same course - I go down to 20 meters and release a bold.
Still at flank I come up to PD again and "keep" the bold between the DD and me.
The DD gets only one signal - it covers my escape - until the lifetime of the bold is over.
Slow down to 1.8 knots and run silent. Keep you six showing.
Watch the DD leave the scene in disappointment - but be aware of possible air support in the region.

Viel Glück und gute Jagd!