Are MG's legal since 1991?

[SUBMAN1]

Ummm... Why is it that MG's are still illegal if the courts have already decided on this?

-S

In sum, since enactment of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o), the Secretary has refused to accept any tax payments to make or transfer a machinegun made after May 19, 1986, to approve any such making or transfer, or to register any such machinegun. As applied to machineguns made and possessed after May 19, 1986, the registration and other requirements of the National Firearms Act, Chapter 53 of the Internal Revenue Code, no longer serve any revenue purpose, and are impliedly repealed or are unconstitutional. Accordingly, Counts 1(a) and (b), 2, and 3 of the superseding indictment are dismissed.

The gov never appealed this decision in 1991.

[Yahoshua]

could you post the source for this so we can read the whole document?

[SUBMAN1]

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/court/fed/us_v_rock_island.htm

I'd say anyone that wants a machine gun can probably have one based on this ruling that clearly makes any ban unconstitutional. Unchallenged by the United States Gov!

-S

[SUBMAN1]

This may be an easier to read version - http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/rock_island.txt

-S

[Yahoshua]

These statements really struck me:

"Id. at 512, 57 S.Ct. at 555. In other words, the defendant contended that the Tenth Amendment power of the states to regulate firearms in their criminal codes was an exclusive power not delegated to the federal government."

"No federal jurisdiction existed to enforce alcohol Prohibition, because the Eighteenth Amendment had been repealed. Id. Similarly, no federal jurisdiction exists to ban mere possession of machineguns, and the NFA provisions at issue are not supported by the tax power to the extent they enforce a prohibition rather than taxation. "

"The ban enacted in 1986, and the government's refusal to accept registrations and tax payments, simply left the registration requirements with no constitutional basis. It is the duty of the judiciary to declare such laws unconstitutional. Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch. 137, 176-77, 2 L.Ed. 60 (1803)."

"In sum, since enactment of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o), the Secretary has refused to accept any tax payments to make or transfer a machinegun made after May 19, 1986, to approve any such making or transfer, or to register any such machinegun. As applied to machineguns made and possessed after May 19, 1986, the registration and other requirements of the National Firearms Act, Chapter 53 of the Internal Revenue Code, no longer serve any revenue purpose, and are impliedly repealed or are unconstitutional. Accordingly, Counts 1(a) and (b), 2, and 3 of the superseding indictment are

DISMISSED."

WOW:o


I'm holding onto my horses and checking to see if this case was ever overturned or appealed before I start jumping for joy.

[Stealth Hunter]

I knew a black guy who bought an AK-74, but he had to appeal to the state before they allowed him to own it. He must also keep permits with him, when he shoots it, at all times and must agree to have checks done on it regularly. Don't know if it was modified to be single-shot, though.

[SUBMAN1]

I knew a black guy who bought an AK-74, but he had to appeal to the state before they allowed him to own it. He must also keep permits with him, when he shoots it, at all times and must agree to have checks done on it regularly. Don't know if it was modified to be single-shot, though.That sounds like a registerable AK-74. ie. it is fully automatic to be under those restrictions. You can have one too if you have the $$$.

-S

[Ducimus]

Why would you want to own a Machine gun? Going to war? :rotfl:

I know why you can't own MG's, Nobody wants to see something like Colombine or any other mass shooting incident one could name, being executed with something like an M60E3. Thats just insane.

[SUBMAN1]

Why would you want to own a Machine gun? Going to war? :rotfl:

I know why you can't own MG's, Nobody wants to see something like Colombine or any other mass shooting incident one could name, being executed with something like an M60E3. Thats just insane.
Umm, because that doesn't happen? If you did a little research, you would know that every citizen in the US of A can buy an M-60 if they really want it. There are plenty in civi hands right now. But gee! no one shoots anyone with them! imagine that?

Whacko kids can't afford one in the first place, let alone the bullets to make it work.

-S

[Ducimus]

Wacko kids don't buy guns, they "borrow" them from relatives most likely then not. Im not gonna argue this one. My stance has always been the same with military hardware.

Its a tool designed for a specific job. Military hardware is designed for one specific purpose, and for no other purpose. To kill people. Excepting the case of self defense, killing people is generally considered illegal in the civillian world, and so long as thats true, why the fascination of owning tools to do a job that you cannot legally do as a civillian?


Personnally, i think all this military hardware hysteria, is simply that people think their cool. I know i do, i think for target shooting their alot of fun. But, people don't really *NEED* them, they just think their cool. Unless your in a uniform, you really don't have any buisness owning them.

And besides, even if you could get one off the shelf at your local turners, they'd be so stripped down and euthianized, it would be pointless to own one. Ever see the californian regulation compliant AR 15? What joke. It can no longer accept a box magazine. the magazine limited to a few rounds and was made internal. You have to release the rear retaining pin and slide the upper receiever with the bolt cariage and charging handle up as if you were going to field strip it, and insert rounds one by one into the internal magazine.

So.. phhht why bother either way.

[SUBMAN1]

Wacko kids don't buy guns, they "borrow" them from relatives most likely then not. Im not gonna argue this one. My stance has always been the same with military hardware.

Its a tool designed for a specific job. Military hardware is designed for one specific purpose, and for no other purpose. To kill people. Excepting the case of self defense, killing people is generally considered illegal in the civillian world, and so long as thats true, why the fascination of owning tools to do a job that you cannot legally do as a civillian?


Personnally, i think all this military hardware hysteria, is simply that people think their cool. I know i do, i think for target shooting their alot of fun. But, people don't really *NEED* them, they just think their cool. Unless your in a uniform, you really don't have any buisness owning them.

And besides, even if you could get one off the shelf at your local turners, they'd be so stripped down and euthianized, it would be pointless to own one. Ever see the californian regulation compliant AR 15? What joke. It can no longer accept a box magazine. the magazine limited to a few rounds and was made internal. You have to release the rear retaining pin and slide the upper receiever with the bolt cariage and charging handle up as if you were going to field strip it, and insert rounds one by one into the internal magazine.

So.. phhht why bother either way.Well you're talking about Kalifornia where nothing is legal practically. 47 states see things the way they should be. 3 or so have identity issues - Kali being one of them.

An M-60 registerable will be the real deal, not stripped down, fully auto, though Kali doesn't permit them. You need to leave that messed up state.

Guns serve many purposes, and military guns serve a purpose in civi life as well.

-S

[VipertheSniper]

Well you're talking about Kalifornia where nothing is legal practically. 47 states see things the way they should be. 3 or so have identity issues - Kali being one of them.

An M-60 registerable will be the real deal, not stripped down, fully auto, though Kali doesn't permit them. You need to leave that messed up state.

Guns serve many purposes, and military guns serve a purpose in civi life as well.

-S

UMMMMM seriously, what purpose do military guns have in civil life exactly? Guns like the M-60 for example? I guess even penis enlargement would be cheaper than getting an M-60 as a potence prothesis. Well that's just polemic, but I really can't think of another reason to own a fully-fledged MG, than having a my gun is bigger than yours issue of some kind.

[SUBMAN1]

UMMMMM seriously, what purpose do military guns have in civil life exactly? Guns like the M-60 for example? I guess even penis enlargement would be cheaper than getting an M-60 as a potence prothesis. Well that's just polemic, but I really can't think of another reason to own a fully-fledged MG, than having a my gun is bigger than yours issue of some kind.As i said before and asked you before - Why not?

-S

[VipertheSniper]

UMMMMM seriously, what purpose do military guns have in civil life exactly? Guns like the M-60 for example? I guess even penis enlargement would be cheaper than getting an M-60 as a potence prothesis. Well that's just polemic, but I really can't think of another reason to own a fully-fledged MG, than having a my gun is bigger than yours issue of some kind.As i said before and asked you before - Why not?

-S

I've answered in the other thread, hadn't seen you had posted there, before I wrote here.

[SUBMAN1]

UMMMMM seriously, what purpose do military guns have in civil life exactly? Guns like the M-60 for example? I guess even penis enlargement would be cheaper than getting an M-60 as a potence prothesis. Well that's just polemic, but I really can't think of another reason to own a fully-fledged MG, than having a my gun is bigger than yours issue of some kind.As i said before and asked you before - Why not?

-S
I've answered in the other thread, hadn't seen you had posted there, before I wrote here.And I replied already! :D

-S

[Yahoshua]

UMMMMM seriously, what purpose do military guns have in civil life exactly? Guns like the M-60 for example? I guess even penis enlargement would be cheaper than getting an M-60 as a potence prothesis. Well that's just polemic, but I really can't think of another reason to own a fully-fledged MG, than having a my gun is bigger than yours issue of some kind.


1. Machine guns are fun

2. I'd like one because I can. I could ask the same question you have on why rich people buy a dozen cars or why women usually have a dozen pairs of shoes.

3. Who said our industry had anything to do with NEED?

4. Having, wanting, or playing with guns or machine guns does not imply that I have a complex over the size of my dick. It is insulting and childish to think and assume so.

[Lurchi]

UMMMMM seriously, what purpose do military guns have in civil life exactly? Well, those weapons are potentially most effective against groups of persons ... this makes them best choice for the next school shooting. :rock:

:huh:

[panzer 49th]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.

[SUBMAN1]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.
Hmm, in Canada? I know you guys have more guns per capita than the US, but still? An MG up there? Unlikely I think.

And I hope you have a lot of money. Bullets for what you are wanting cost way more than the gun itself given enough time.

I was paying $1.20 per bullet for .45 hydrashock the other day.

-S

[nikimcbee]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.

Wow, who's paying your ammo bill?

[SUBMAN1]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.
Wow, who's paying your ammo bill?Thats what I said! And I said it first! :up:

-S

[nikimcbee]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.
Wow, who's paying your ammo bill?Thats what I said! And I said it first! :up:

-S

oh, yeah, well I said it... with... more flair:lol: so there.

i think we should start a "One-upsmanship thread" Now that would be fun.

[SUBMAN1]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.
Wow, who's paying your ammo bill?Thats what I said! And I said it first! :up:

-S
oh, yeah, well I said it... with... more flair:lol: so there.

i think we should start a "One-upsmanship thread" Now that would be fun.Oh yeah? :p

[panzer 49th]

It shouldn't be that hard to find bullets for all those guns(I'm sure the US customs wouldn't mind if i brought those in my luggage when I go on vacation to the US:D)

[SUBMAN1]

It shouldn't be that hard to find bullets for all those guns(I'm sure the US customs wouldn't mind if i brought those in my luggage when I go on vacation to the US:D)As long as you declare it, sure! Ammo is typically frowned upon in luggage however so the airlines might not like it as much.

-S

[UnderseaLcpl]

I'm afraid Sub, that you have made the common mistake of believeing that the U.S. Constitution has much to do with the way it is governed. It's ok, I've done it too.

[August]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.

Something like this suit ya? :D

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/gunroom3.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/gunroom2.jpg

[SUBMAN1]

How did you get a picture of my house? I never let anyone take any pictures! :-?

-S

[Morts]

well the sick thing is that if subman could have he's house like that, he probably would

[Platapus]

The flame throwers on the wall gives that room that homey welcome feeling. :yep:

[Skybird]

I want a thermal detonator.

Why? Because I can.

That's freedom dude. :88)

:dead:

[August]

I want a thermal detonator.

Why? Because I can.

That's freedom dude. :88)

:dead:

Here take two they're small.

http://greenasathistle.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/match.jpg

[Seth8530]

I want a thermal detonator.

Why? Because I can.

That's freedom dude. :88)

:dead:
Here take two they're small.

http://greenasathistle.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/match.jpg

ROFL good one man:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

The funny thing is, the Euro's think this is some sort of museum. I will tell you it is not! This is someones house, and all those guns work as designed in fully auto mode, including the flame thrower, and were used for fun! I can tell you the guys name too:

Charleton Heston.

Like the .50 cal with the belt of ammo? That gun is 'loaded' and you could walk up and shoot it right there! I bet all the guns in this place are 'loaded'.

-S

[panzer 49th]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.
Something like this suit ya? :D

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/gunroom3.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/gunroom2.jpg

That will do nicely.

I am assuming by the walls and such that those guns are inside a boat. Now the question is, What boat, and where is this boat docked.

[SUBMAN1]

If I can own MG's then here is a list of what I want

Let's see, what do I want: M-249, M-60, M4, M16, SPAS-12, SPAS-15, 870-MCS, V-23 Skorpion, AK-47GP30, AKS-74U, XM-8LMG, SCAR-HCOC, M-11, MP-9, MP-5, MP-7A1, MG-3, M-95, M-24, UzI, SV-98, MK-48, M-136, AN-94, L-96, GOL, 21-E, W-1200, AUG-A3, G3KA4, G-36c, G-18, M-9, M1911, 92FS, D-E, USP-40, MK-23, M-14, M-21, M-82, M-107, DAO-12, FAMAS, M-134, P-90, UMP-40, AR-556 ,L85A2, RPD, PKM, MG-36, TAR-21, AUG-PARA, 5TAC, W-PPK, 552-C, TYPE-05, FNC, M-203, SR225D, P5G1K, M-8, A-91, AA12, AEK-971, AR-34.
Something like this suit ya? :D




That will do nicely.

I am assuming by the walls and such that those guns are inside a boat. Now the question is, What boat, and where is this boat docked.See my above post. It is not a boat. It is Mr. Hestons gun collection.

That is his house.

-S

[August]

It is Mr. Hestons gun collection.

That is his house.

-S

There was a chain email that made that claim but apparently it isn't.

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50646

Here's a couple more pictures from the set:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll151/airacobra/image00144.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/Gunroom1.jpg

[SUBMAN1]

It is Mr. Hestons gun collection.

That is his house.

-S
There was a chain email that made that claim but apparently it isn't.

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50646

Here's a couple more pictures from the set:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll151/airacobra/image00144.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/Gunroom1.jpg

Interesting. I wonder what Mr. Hestons house looks like then? Must see if I can find it.

Whomever this guy is, he has a ton of cash, and that plane is a turboprop as well! Nice aircraft. :up:

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Definitely nots Hestons house. This is:

http://thumbsll.virtualglobetrotting.com/2/5/25557.gif

And besides, that house kind of looks like the middle South with its foilage, I'd opt for Texas, but it could be Georgia, or maybe even Alabama. It looks like tornado country too!

And why are his props not feathered?

-S

[August]

All that expensive weaponry and everything else and check out the el cheapo Staples furniture. :nope:

[SUBMAN1]

All that expensive weaponry and everything else and check out the el cheapo Staples furniture. :nope:I'm sure he doesn't sit in there and hang out! :D He grabs and MG and heads out to shoot it!

-S

[August]

All that expensive weaponry and everything else and check out the el cheapo Staples furniture. :nope:I'm sure he doesn't sit in there and hang out! :D He grabs and MG and heads out to shoot it!

-S

On the contrary, i'll bet most of those weapons haven't seen the light of day since they were put in that vault. What's that in the foreground of the first picture? A stainless steel .30cal? I never heard of that before. :o

[SUBMAN1]

All that expensive weaponry and everything else and check out the el cheapo Staples furniture. :nope:I'm sure he doesn't sit in there and hang out! :D He grabs and MG and heads out to shoot it!

-S
On the contrary, i'll bet most of those weapons haven't seen the light of day since they were put in that vault. What's that in the foreground of the first picture? A stainless steel .30cal? I never heard of that before. :oMan, someone with that kind of love for weaponry and money loves to pull out weird crap and shoot it to show off. So I don't agree with you!

I know people personally like this - its a given!

-S

[Platapus]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/Shredder_M1/gunroom2.jpg

On the back wall to the right, at the bottom is the M2 flamethrower. I can't ID the middle flamethrower though. However my question is at the top, Is that a Japanese Type 98 grenade launcher, tragically named Knee Mortar?

And can anyone ID the middle flamethrower? I am scratching my head on this one.