17 wounded during military performance France

[jpm1]

A soldier misunderstood blank bullets with real ones during an hostages liberation performance article (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23948218-2703,00.html)

[August]

I just can't see how he could do that. The differences in appearance between blanks and live rounds are significant.

[SUBMAN1]

I just can't see how he could do that. The differences in appearance between blanks and live rounds are significant.Such as a slug of lead on the end of the rd?

Rambo shoots blanks - you can see the red paper wads in the bullets specifically in the M-60 scenes.

-S

[MothBalls]

I can't believe it's a mistake, it's just not possible IMO. The guy at the armory would never mistake live ammo for blank ammo in the first place. Then the guy has to load his magazines himself like everyone else, when you load 25 rounds you have more than enough time to figure if they're blank or live !
And when you fire blank ammo with a famas you need a special cap on the mouth of the barrel, clearly visible if it's missing, with that on you would blow your gun if firing live ammo. And last, even when firing blank ammo you're never supposed to fire with the trigger on unlimited burst. That makes a damn lot of mistakes for at least 2 peoples supposed to be trained professionnals use to that stuff.
And 17 people hit with 25 rounds, that's quite a good ratio for an accident :shifty:
My money is on another retard breaking a fuse.

I agree with everything you just said. It just couldn't be an accident, no way.

I have a couple of these blank adapters (http://www.combathunting.com/AR_15_M_16_M4-AR_15_M16_Blank_Firing_Adaptor.html).

If you fire a blank round without one, you'd have to manually eject the round. The main reason it's there is to chamber the next round. If you fire a blank without one, you'll get a big flash, big puff of smoke, and 1/2 the noise. If you fired a live round with this on there, the weapon would explode in your face.

Secondly, the noise and kick are distinctly different. Anyone qualified with that weapon would know if it's a blank or not after the first shot. There's just no way anyone in their right mind could ever believe the person firing it didn't know they were live rounds. Period. A 5 minute demo with any jury or judge and they would know immediately.

Whatever reason you'd like to think after that, conspiracy, nutjob, revenge, or just plain negligence, whatever you choose, it's 100% more likely than an accident.

[SUBMAN1]

Some people just don't have the experience. That is another alternative. Maybe he just went through basic training last year and doesn't know?

-S

[August]

Some people just don't have the experience. That is another alternative. Maybe he just went through basic training last year and doesn't know?

-SNaw these were paratroopers doing a demonstration. Not some new trooper fresh from basic. Even if he were it's unlikely he could have made that mistake. I think Mikhayl's right, somebody blew a fuse...

[baggygreen]

I'll also agree with a blown fuse,

Blanks have a different weight about them, they look different, and you need the blank firing attachment in order for any gas-chambered weapon to reload properly.

I also would've thunk that anyone in their right mind, (even if they'd miraculously missed seeing they were live rounds, feeling they were live rounds, and leaving off the BFA) would have stopped firing immediately upon seeing people crumpling into heaps on the ground....

its the asylum for this lad!

[Stealth Hunter]

Sweet Jesus! The man went on a rampage!:o

[Schroeder]

And 17 people hit with 25 rounds, that's quite a good ratio for an accident :shifty:
My money is on another retard breaking a fuse.
Maybe the people where standing behind each other. A bullet goes through more than just one guy before it's out of power.

But I also doubt that it was an accident.

1. No real soldier mistakes live ammo for blanks. (not even I would and I only served 9 months)
2. No blank adaptor
3. He fired into the audience

[rifleman13]

Paratroopers are elite soldiers.
They should know the difference when firing blanks and firing live rounds.
He should have ceased fire on the first round instead he fired 16 more times...

It ain't an accident!:down:

[Fincuan]

The latest news around here is that this really wasn't intentional. The press call it an accident. Unbelievable...

Has it been btw stated somewhere that he did not have a blank adapter? Just asking because at least with the Finnish adapters(in our blanks the "bullet" is made of wood) a live 7.62x39 round would just pass right through the adapter. It might wreck the end of the barrel and the adapter, but it would definitely fly quite far and hurt people if it hit something. I have no idea how a 5.56x45 would behave.

Just a year ago there was an incident where the tips of live 7.62x39 FMJ rounds in factory sealed boxes were painted in light blue(the color of blanks). The end result was that a reservist got shot in the lower abdomen with a live round through the blank adapter. He was wearing a type III or IV ballistic vest, but the round penetrated the vest just under the plates. Luckily the adapter and the vest still slowed it down so that it didn't penetrate deep enough to hit any vital organs.

[Schroeder]

Why would a piece of blank ammo have a wooden bullet on it? Blank ammo is the stuff that just goes "Bang" without any bullet at all IIRC.
Here in Germany the blank ammo has no bullet or anything that might look like a bullet. It's just the cartridge that is closed at the top (where the bullet would normally close it).

Here you can see nicely the difference between the ammo types:


http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/54/1012554/400_6438306565666138.jpg


Found here:
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/556mm_ammo.html

As one can see, the blank one looks quite differently.

[Fincuan]

I don't remember exactly why the wooden bullet is there, but anyway it completely disintegrates indide the barrel even without the blank adapter. The blank adapter is there mainly to redirect gas fumes and thus to allow the next round to be loaded in the chamber, because the reduced amount of powder in the wood-tipped rounds is not enough for that. All that comes out of the end of the barrel is gases and the wooden "bullet" in tiny little chips(I've been in the receiving end 20 cm away). If you tried hard you could maybe hurt someone who is real close, but then again you aren't allowed to fire at people closer than 50 meters when using this system.

Again this is what we have here, I have no idea how the French do it. Back to the topic: The French army chief of staff has resigned.

[HunterICX]

also the fact that 5 children got injured is very disturbing and the fact the ones handling these weapons are trained profesionales...the ''elite'' so to speak.

HunterICX

[UglyMowgli]

Well the NCO made a terrible mistake, he was the armorer of his platoon and after a live exercice he keep with him a mags full of ammo in one of his pockets.
He is a member of the GCP (Para Commando Group wich is the elite force of the french paratroopers) and for the demonstration they load all their pocket with blank mags.
There is videos of the incident and the NCO after unloading a blank mag get a new one and unfortunatly it was the mag with real ammo. The first burst (3 rounds) exploded the aluminium blank fire adapter and the fragment injured some of the public, after he fire 8 other 3 rounds burst until the chief saw people laying and bleeding on the ground.

Sarkozy want heads for this accident and he didn't like the army :down:so in the next days, there will be a lot of good soldiers releived from the army.
The chief of the army just leave this morning.

[Schroeder]

How can someone be so stupid to fire more bursts after the blank adaptor has already be blown to pieces?

Besides in our Army the weapons and magazines were always doublechecked after a live ammo exercise. How can a professional forget to have live ammo with him?:damn:

[SUBMAN1]

Come on guys! Give them a break! They are French! They never fight and don't know how to fight, so they don't know what live ammo looks like! Shesshh! Get with it already.

-S

[Schroeder]

Come on guys! Give them a break! They are French! They never fight and don't know how to fight, so they don't know what live ammo looks like! Shesshh! Get with it already.

-S
You have obviously never heard of WWI or the Resistance and the free French in WWII and there is the rumor that there are even some French in their foreign legion.:nope:

[UglyMowgli]

Subman1 : yes, we only know how to wave white flag and wait for good americans to save us, but they alos told us that your are a big dickhead.

[Oberon]

Just one seconds lapse... :damn: :cry:

Now the entire French military will no doubt receive a Soviet purge :nope:

[SUBMAN1]

Come on guys that was some subtle humour. A bit dated though since this was trendy 5 years ago, but I have no doubt Subman can and will do better to amuse us :DAt least someone liked my joke! :D

-S

PS. There are no French in the foreign legion.

[baggygreen]

How can someone be so stupid to fire more bursts after the blank adaptor has already be blown to pieces?

Besides in our Army the weapons and magazines were always doublechecked after a live ammo exercise. How can a professional forget to have live ammo with him?:damn:In our army every time you leave a firing range you make a declaration that you have no live ammo on you. if you're found to have ammo later on, well... you dont want to be found, much better to hand it in.

[bookworm_020]

IF the guy wasn't nuts before the shooting, the inquest will make him so:doh: