50/50 chance you can sail to North Pole this summer

[NEON DEON]

"There is no land at the North Pole, but as long as anyone has looked, it has remained a giant block of ice year-round. Scientists have been watching Arctic sea ice melt more and more each year. But each summer in recent years, the amount of ice has gotten thinner and thinner. Each winter's freeze, therefore, results in a thinner pack that, this summer, could melt altogether."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080627/sc_livescience/northpolecouldbeicefreethissummer;_ylt=AqC8a_tLHYk 3cCkjGI37rzSs0NUE


GW is a myth:p

[SUBMAN1]

A. This may simply be a scare tactic and...
B. If this happens with below average historic tempuratures (remember we are still on the way out of our mini Ice-Age and still below the 3000 year average), then this is a normal event and of no concern.

-S

[Ducimus]

or
C.) A "normal" event who's onset is being accelerated by man made emissions. :88)

Yes, ice melts, and things come and go, but not this fast (http://www.livescience.com/environment/060324_glacier_melt.html).

Things that have existed for 1000's of years should not be disspaearing in the timespan of a 100 years.

[SUBMAN1]

or
C.) A "normal" event who's onset is being accelerated by man made emissions. :88)

Yes, ice melts, and things come and go, but not this fast (http://www.livescience.com/environment/060324_glacier_melt.html).

Things that have existed for 1000's of years should not be disspaearing in the timespan of a 100 years.Huh? Man made? Where? No proof and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has no effect on climate.

And a good point was made by a climate scientist about two weeks ago - He said all this data is flawed. Man can't even accurately predict the weather in a week, and he basically said anyone that thinks data for 10 years out, let alone longer into the future, is basically an idiot - his words more or less.

I'd say he has a point.

-S

[Zachstar]

Id say this idiotic debate is pointless. Who cares? The world leaders say there is global warming. Chimpy says there is Global Warming. Its obvious the deniers are going to go on just like the Moon Hoax people of last generation so why even bother?

[MothBalls]

Id say this idiotic debate is pointless. Who cares?

My kids. My niece. My neighbors kids. My friends children. They all seem to shive a git about what will happen in their lifetime. I don't blame them.

[Ducimus]

I tend to say things that i think are the Plain and honest truth. Gets me into trouble, quite often. Now here global warming is concerned, i think denial is based on a subconcious resistance to change.

Few people like change. ( I know i dont. Infact im afraid of dramatic change in my daily life. ) A day to day example i used to get while working base maintenance was "But I always park my car here". The bottom line on that was, "Well, not today you are". After explainiing that they had to change this part of their daily habit so you could get your work done, they'd go off into their building in a little bit of a huff after having to park there car somewhere that was less then convienant. Global warming denial to me, is the exact same thing metaphorically speaking.

Another thing is attitudes that are NIMBY like. A parrell to NIMBY is "not in my lifetime". Many people only give a **** about something if its going to be in their backyard. if its not in their backyard, they don't care. Similarly, if its not going to be in their lifetime, they don't care, and to be honest, if i didnt think things would happen in my lifetime, i woudln't care either.

Anywho, thats my 2 cents on it. Not really interested in debating my opinion.

[SUBMAN1]

I tend to say things that i think are the Plain and honest truth. Gets me into trouble, quite often. Now here global warming is concerned, i think denial is based on a subconcious resistance to change.

Few people like change. ( I know i dont. Infact im afraid of dramatic change in my daily life. ) A day to day example i used to get while working base maintenance was "But I always park my car here". The bottom line on that was, "Well, not today you are". After explainiing that they had to change this part of their daily habit so you could get your work done, they'd go off into their building in a little bit of a huff after having to park there car somewhere that was less then convienant. Global warming denial to me, is the exact same thing metaphorically speaking.

Another thing is attitudes that are NIMBY like. A parrell to NIMBY is "not in my lifetime". Many people only give a **** about something if its going to be in their backyard. if its not in their backyard, they don't care. Similarly, if its not going to be in their lifetime, they don't care, and to be honest, if i didnt think things would happen in my lifetime, i woudln't care either.

Anywho, thats my 2 cents on it. Not really interested in debating my opinion.Its not a resistence to change. You need to show me proof that this change will have a positive outcome on my life! That means, it needs to affect weather changes, it needs to affect the good of the planet, and it needs to do both those things and more!

You know whats driving the change? It has not a damn thing to do with wheather changes. It has everything to do with lining Al Gore's pocketbook (He has $1.8 Billion invested in the hopes we are all idiots), and it has everything to with the UN and control over America. That is what it is driving.

Sad that you buy into that muck. Scientists can prove to you over and over, but you need to wake up and look at the data. Not the 400 years the IPCC is feeding you - the 3000 years the rest of the worlds scientists are trying to make you see!

Funny part of it is - this glacier melt, and upwards trend in temp happened 'before' man started using hydrocarbons. After man started using hydrocarbons, the same slope in temp remained 100% stable!!! So don't feed me horse crap! Wake up and smell what is really happening!

-S

PS. NASA is not going to help you - they have $2 billion in funding at stake in this. Remove Global Warming, and they lose another $2 Billion! Their scientists have been told to shut up or they are out of a job!

[clive bradbury]

Not often I agree with you, subman, but you are spot on here.

[SUBMAN1]

Not often I agree with you, subman, but you are spot on here.Wierder things have happened! :D

-S

[Ducimus]

SUBMAN1, im not pointing fingers at you. Im speaking in general terms, and if you notice, i did not exclude myself.

Now you keep spouting statistics and data. I simply do not read anything linked in that reguard because as the old saying goes, theres lies, damn lies, and stastics. Any statistic can be spinned to suit anyones agenda. Having said that, i was a skeptic until i started looking into it more, and i saw far too much that was beleiveable, physically visible, and things that correllated.

But here i'll degress on something. I think theres far too many people and reports (both pro and con) that have an opinion, and then go look for the info to back up that opinion, as opposed to forming an opinion based on info found.

[SUBMAN1]

SUBMAN1, im not pointing fingers at you. Im speaking in general terms, and if you notice, i did not exclude myself.

Now you keep spouting statistics and data. I simply do not read anything linked in that reguard because as the old saying goes, theres lies, damn lies, and stastics. Any statistic can be spinned to suit anyones agenda. Having said that, i was a skeptic until i started looking into it more, and i saw far too much that was beleiveable, physically visible, and things that correllated.

But here i'll degress on something. I think theres far too many people and reports (both pro and con) that have an opinion, and then go look for the info to back up that opinion, as opposed to forming an opinion based on info found.Already have. The evidence is overwhelming to the contrary of Global Warming. Real data. Real scientists. There is a thread here full of it if you care to read.

And as a concered citizen, you should at least buy the fact that the IPCC is not telling the whole story. Do you know that the scientists on their board were not even allowed to review the data before the IPCC published the data? That is Absurd! They cherry picked what they wanted to keep their funding! Now the rest of the world is going to pay some price for it! Forget it! This has long since turned from scientific to propoganda years ago! I'm surprised anyone still pays them any credibility, or NASA for that matter! They lost their top scientist on cimate models because he figured it out! Crazy.

The funny thing is, the data shows an Ice Age is coming. So everyone has been told to buy shorts, when they need fur coats! Wonderful!

-S

[NEON DEON]

I dont think so Subman.

Real scientists that couldnt find a core sample much less interpert it.

Those scientists?

http://climateprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/nasa-2007.jpg

High temperatures even tho the sunspot peops say we should be cooling.

Hmmm.

[SUBMAN1]

I dont think so Subman.

Real scientists that couldnt find a core sample much less interpert it.

Those scientists?

http://climateprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/nasa-2007.jpg

High temperatures even tho the sunspot peops say we should be cooling.

Hmmm.Scuse me, but notice your Ice Age data? Try George Washington was in the hieght of a mini Ice Age when he was leading troops against the British!!! But you would know that if you did your research!!!

So go look at your graph again!!! 1776 was about the low point for our mini Ice Age!!!

Duhhh!!! Come on Neon! you should do better than that!

-S

PS. I forgot to mention that the increase in temp is the same from 1776 till 2006! It is perfectly linear! Get more data. You will see you have been lied to. Or maybe not told the whole truth. Notice this was before hydrocarbon use in 1776!!!

[SUBMAN1]

Here you go Neon - a much more accurate graph to pull data on - 3000 years at your finger tips!!! Notice even today, we are slightly below average! :p

-S



http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide1.png

[Zachstar]

Like I said folks the Web 2.0 version of the moon hoax theory.

"SEE SEE THERE IS NO WAI THEY PASSED THE BELTS!! THEY WERE GONNA BE FRIED!!11"

The rest of the world has moved on and accepted the problem and is working to mitigate it like those who accepted that we did go to the moon. But as always a select group just can't.

Whats next? The liberals caused 9/11 to elect Clinton again?

[August]

If human caused global warming is indeed a reality then it is not caused by industry or modern conveniences, it is caused by the fact that we have over 6 BILLION freaking people on this planet and every one of them has the same rights to the best life they can obtain for themselves and their families, and unfortunately if that means plowing under the rainforest and strip mining the oceans of fish then that is what is going to happen and nobody will be able to stop it short of a war the likes this planet has never seen before.

Therefore every carbon credit boondoggle, mandatory emissions cap, energy use reduction plan or any other wealth redistribution scheme we can dream up is doomed to eventual failure as long as the global human populations are allowed to continue to grow unchecked.

Its like using a spoon to try and hold back the tide. Even if the spoon is as effective as it was designed to be it will still be swamped by the incoming waves and make no difference in the end result.

[Wolfehunter]

Well since our world is getting hotter maybe I can move more north and take advantage of the new fresh land up there.... My only issue is the cold.:hmm: Most likely going to have to plant some trees and stuff.:88)

[SUBMAN1]

Like I said folks the Web 2.0 version of the moon hoax theory.

"SEE SEE THERE IS NO WAI THEY PASSED THE BELTS!! THEY WERE GONNA BE FRIED!!11"

The rest of the world has moved on and accepted the problem and is working to mitigate it like those who accepted that we did go to the moon. But as always a select group just can't.

Whats next? The liberals caused 9/11 to elect Clinton again?As you are saying, no hope for the closed minded. We did go to the moon, there is evidence of that beyond any reasonable doubt, but Global Warming is designed for the idiot and banking on it. Below avg temps as recorded in history of 3000 years at this point in time, linear rises in temperature before and after hydrocarbon use, and ultimately no sun-spots which means we are headed to an ice age due to decreases in solar activity - possibly for 40 years in length. Did the previous 40 years of science warning of a new Ice age go out the window? Did NASA's own Ice Age warnings go unheeded? When I was in school, this is what we were taught until recently - the 2000's. We were all told for ages that we are headed for another Ice Age until Al Gore hit the scene. Amazing! He must be right! How stupid can the general population be? Pretty stupid I can see. Very stupid, as is some on this board.

Some people here are complete sheep minded idiots.

-S

[Zachstar]

Yes all these nations and all these world leaders and all these people working their butts off are sheep eh?

Yes we hear that from the conspiricy crowd all the time. That we are little more than sheep because we don't think the moon landing was fake or we don't the Pentagon was hit by a missile. Or we don't think the gov is trying to poison us with something.

It is exactly what people like you are starting to sound like. This fringe of people that think Global Warming is some kind of Conspiracy to steal all our rights and make Clinton president while making Gore and NASA a Brazillion dollars or something else completely idiotic and if we don't think like that we are a bunch of sheep they say.

Face it for it is the right wing Web 2.0 version of the Moon Hoax crowd. It is happening and it is time one just accepts it and tries to make the best of it rather than making oneself look like a fool posting crap all over the place. For in the meantime people are actually trying to do somthing with it. Such as Bioreactor technology that will remove the need to import oil from terrorist supporting nations. And battery technology so Americans can afford to drive again. And CFL technology so we can turn on a light without worrying how much it is going to add to the bill.

There is no conspircy. Wake up!

[SUBMAN1]

Yes all these nations and all these world leaders and all these people working their butts off are sheep eh?

Yes we hear that from the conspiricy crowd all the time. That we are little more than sheep because we don't think the moon landing was fake or we don't the Pentagon was hit by a missile. Or we don't think the gov is trying to poison us with something.

It is exactly what people like you are starting to sound like. This fringe of people that think Global Warming is some kind of Conspiracy to steal all our rights and make Clinton president while making Gore and NASA a Brazillion dollars or something else completely idiotic and if we don't think like that we are a bunch of sheep they say.

Face it for it is the right wing Web 2.0 version of the Moon Hoax crowd. It is happening and it is time one just accepts it and tries to make the best of it rather than making oneself look like a fool posting crap all over the place. For in the meantime people are actually trying to do somthing with it. Such as Bioreactor technology that will remove the need to import oil from terrorist supporting nations. And battery technology so Americans can afford to drive again. And CFL technology so we can turn on a light without worrying how much it is going to add to the bill.

There is no conspircy. Wake up!Simple answer - show me proof. Plenty above to show that it doesn't exist already. Any climatologist that doesn't work for the IPCC will also like to know where you get your proof. Do you know what the term sheep stands for? Use your own mind for once. You will go much further in life.

-S

[Zachstar]

We can show video of the decent stages of the LEMs during the Apollo missions on the moon and the hoaxers will say it is fabricated.

So you will forgive me if I don't give a flying hell what you accept as evidence in the face of Google these days. You are not the one designing the Bioreactors that will get us off the tit of terrorist supporting nations. You are not the one designing EEstor batteries so our economy can get back on track with our own sources of energy.

And before you say it. I do not worship Gore. I dispise how he gave Lieberman slime his start in power and his weakness in the face of Clinton lies that led to 8 years of a president who can't even talk right.

I do not worship NASA whos plans for the return to the moon amount to little more than political failure with the next administration. The Ares V alone is beyond politically unacheiveable.

[SUBMAN1]

We can show video of the decent stages of the LEMs during the Apollo missions on the moon and the hoaxers will say it is fabricated.

So you will forgive me if I don't give a flying hell what you accept as evidence in the face of Google these days. You are not the one designing the Bioreactors that will get us off the tit of terrorist supporting nations. You are not the one designing EEstor batteries so our economy can get back on track with our own sources of energy.

And before you say it. I do not worship Gore. I dispise how he gave Lieberman slime his start in power and his weakness in the face of Clinton lies that led to 8 years of a president who can't even talk right.

I do not worship NASA whos plans for the return to the moon amount to little more than political failure with the next administration. The Ares V alone is beyond politically unacheiveable.All neat.

Problem is, show me where I or anyone else disputed we landed on the moon?

-S

PS. I am being a bit of an *ss. i apologize for it too because I am not normally this direct when I disagree, though you kind of threw me in it about the moon landings. The point being, it's all a farce. And there are major incentives to convincing the general population that it is as well. We can get into it later, but I have not the will or time at this very point in time. We will continue later.

[Zachstar]

*Facepalms* That one flew into orbit it seems. WAYYY over thy head.

BTW calm down on the forum Refreshes. I am not THAT politically dangerous :P

[SUBMAN1]

*Facepalms* That one flew into orbit it seems. WAYYY over thy head.

BTW calm down on the forum Refreshes. I am not THAT politically dangerous :PSee my previous post. I'm just messing with ya. Going to bed. We can pick it up later.

-S

[Zachstar]

*Facepalms* That one flew into orbit it seems. WAYYY over thy head.

BTW calm down on the forum Refreshes. I am not THAT politically dangerous :PSee my previous post. I'm just messing with ya. Going to bed. We can pick it up later.

-S

Only thing I'm picking up is an CityZENN from Canada. I am ready to get off the oil tit.

[NEON DEON]

Here you go Neon - a much more accurate graph to pull data on - 3000 years at your finger tips!!! Notice even today, we are slightly below average! :p

-S



http://www.oism.org/pproject/Slides/Presentation/Slide1.png


Not according to the Nation Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration:

"These results provide important insight to the global warming debate, as the observed twentieth century temperature increase appears unprecedented compared to our mean North American temperature reconstruction of the past

14,000 years."

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/viau2006/viau2006.html

If you dispute those numbers take it up with the...

Department of Commerce.:p