Interesting 9/11 analysis

[Kapitan_Phillips]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HQdlBAp-24g&feature=related

Whatcha think?

[PeriscopeDepth]

I don't think "Crock of ****" is strong enough, personally.

PD

[Kapitan_Phillips]

You dont think he makes a few good points?

[PeriscopeDepth]

You dont think he makes a few good points?
Did I somehow make it sound like he did? I thought I was pretty unequivocal.

PD

[AVGWarhawk]

This has been analyized to death. Jesse "the body" Ventura...I do not have time to bleed....when he comes up with a paperwork that he fully understand structrual engineering, then we can talk. The trade centers were constructed with a exoskeleton as support. The persons who took control of the planes obviously studied these buildings and it's construction thus understanding it's weak points creating a possible collapse. They studied well and found that hitting the corners of the building could create a unstable structure producing a collapse. Of course we know the results. This was well planned and well executed. The only conspiracy here are those that made some sort of profit from this act of aggression. I guess Jesse will now right a book on his theories and make his profit.

[Sailor Steve]

I've watched the videos many times, and it's obvious in the case of the two main towers that the top portions collapsed onto the crash points first. The rest falls from the top down. There are puffs of smoke lower down, probably from pressure as the higher portions force the air out of the floors below. It doesn't look like there are any interior explosions to me.

I don't know much about building 7, but these guys do:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5

Also see:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

[mapuc]

I hope that one day, if not for the american, than the people of the free world, that the real truth about this will come furth.

I'm not saying that it's your government or so.

Markus

[joegrundman]

The trade centers were constructed with a exoskeleton as support. The persons who took control of the planes obviously studied these buildings and it's construction thus understanding it's weak points creating a possible collapse. They studied well and found that hitting the corners of the building could create a unstable structure producing a collapse. Of course we know the results. This was well planned and well executed.

while i do not disagree with your general point, i'd like to say that it is not necessarily true that the attackers fully understood the weaknesses of the structure.

Firstly, from what is known, the targets were chosen not for their vulnerability but for their symbolic value

Secondly early reports from Bin Laden's camp reported a reaction of surprise that the buildings collapsed completely

[baggygreen]

Not again....

internal 'explosions' below the actual collapse is, funnily enough, like steve said - the result of high pressure you generally get from thousands of tonnes of steel crashing down into a small space... air has to go somewhere!

I'm also sure that the architects of the towers didnt really anticipate the need to make it plane-flying-into-side-of-building-proof, either! The force of the impact would already render any building potentially written-off, and thats before the heat stress brought on by the intense heat from the fuel exploding.

I would like to compare the 9/11 conspiracy theorists to those who believe in aliens and UFOs, but i cant, because theres more chance that aliens and UFOs are real!

[August]

Is it me or are there a lot of people, both around the world and even here in the states who very strongly hope that 9-11 turns out a government conspiracy and bin Laden and his henchmen just innocent scapegoats?

[Wolfehunter]

Good some more americans are waking up and smelling the coffee. So when are the american people going to take back they're country?:hmm:

[mapuc]

Emperors new clothes

Almost no one today, dare to stand up and say what's on his or her mind about many thing, including this 9/11, because we are all more or less very afraid to be pointed at and called

Stupid, jerk, you name it.

So indeed we are looking at emperors new clothes

And what I can see from my point of view
HE'S NAKED

Markus

[PeriscopeDepth]

Does anyone really believe the Bush admin could get away with murdering nearly 3,000 American civillians with nobody talking? They couldn't get away with outing a CIA agent FFS. How is it so hard to believe a bunch of crazies put airplanes into buildings? I don't get it, and am certainly one to question my government. But it just has to make a wee bit of sense.

PD

[PeriscopeDepth]

Is it me or are there a lot of people, both around the world and even here in the states who very strongly hope that 9-11 turns out a government conspiracy and bin Laden and his henchmen just innocent scapegoats?
Or Israeli conspiracy.

PD

[Stealth Hunter]

Does anyone really believe the Bush admin could get away with murdering nearly 3,000 American civillians with nobody talking? They couldn't get away with outing a CIA agent FFS. How is it so hard to believe a bunch of crazies put airplanes into buildings? I don't get it, and am certainly one to question my government. But it just has to make a wee bit of sense.

PD

Hey, these same people typically believe that JFK was killed by the CIA and we never landed on the moon. You can give them all the evidence, but they'll deny it to the end and make up crazy stories to meet their argument.:roll:

I like his part about how could they fall at the speed of gravity... he is obviously just a dumbass with no knowledge in science...

[Wolfehunter]

Does anyone really believe the Bush admin could get away with murdering nearly 3,000 American civillians with nobody talking? They couldn't get away with outing a CIA agent FFS. How is it so hard to believe a bunch of crazies put airplanes into buildings? I don't get it, and am certainly one to question my government. But it just has to make a wee bit of sense.

PDYes and they did. Its not the first time a Government has robbed it citizens of there human rights and lives. If you believe your governments are angels, I'm sorry to say this but your ignorant. You better wake up dude. There only friends are the ones who are rich and have power. Your cattle to them nothing more. They're going to strip every last right you guys have. They're already in the process to unite Canada, Mexico and USA into one new United America behind all our backs in closed doors secret. They're drawing up there own new constitution without everybodies consent.

Most people are too stupid to pay attention to whats going around them because watching Simpsons or Reality shows are more important than there freedom to exist in a free country. Right?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Does anyone really believe the Bush admin could get away with murdering nearly 3,000 American civillians with nobody talking? They couldn't get away with outing a CIA agent FFS. How is it so hard to believe a bunch of crazies put airplanes into buildings? I don't get it, and am certainly one to question my government. But it just has to make a wee bit of sense.

PDYes and they did. Its not the first time a Government has robbed it citizens of there human rights and lives. If you believe your governments are angels, I'm sorry to say this but your ignorant. I don't believe governments are angels. I know they are not. I just don't buy into the conspiracy theories.

PD

[Wolfehunter]

I like his part about how could they fall at the speed of gravity... he is obviously just a dumbass with no knowledge in science...

Your right he's not a scientist and doesn't have the knowledge or vocabulary to properly explain that.

He realized all info happing online watching videos and dug up some research on it from other sources. He should have better prepared himself but they don't give him enough time in TV to explain it so he says it in a way that most Americans can understand.

If you want to find out more there are alot of sources showing proof of what really happened.

If you believe it or not that totally up to you.

[darius359au]

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8821/itsaconspiracywp3jf4.jpg

Kinda says it all really :nope:

[baggygreen]

Gold darius, gold!


wolfehunter, if this is such a huge conspiracy, why is everything about it so publicly known?? more to the point, how are you going to keep the hundreds if not thousands of people who were involved in this great big conspiracy quiet? how do you stop just one of them leaking it all to the media saying IT WAS US!

[Wolfehunter]

Gold darius, gold!


wolfehunter, if this is such a huge conspiracy, why is everything about it so publicly known?? more to the point, how are you going to keep the hundreds if not thousands of people who were involved in this great big conspiracy quiet? how do you stop just one of them leaking it all to the media saying IT WAS US!

Here are some videos,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ixuf236Dk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAiyJ_l2a8

There is much more out there but i'm too tired to check for it all.

here is there motivations why they would do it. Money power control.

Go to the 40th min to start watching below,

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

some reading below on other issue could be related to motivation.

http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/eng.htm

Look guys you can make all the fun you want. Its all common sense. You don't need rocket science to figure out what is happening. I hope for you kids sake you look deeper.

I'm not going to look for all the sources. I believe your intelligent enough to do that on your own should you want to.

I alway look at two sides of a coin before I make my decision. With all the evidence even some being partial I'm favoring the Conspiracy. Your Government is hiding too much. Why I don't know? Why don't you ask them.

[Wolfehunter]

Gold darius, gold!


wolfehunter, if this is such a huge conspiracy, why is everything about it so publicly known?? more to the point, how are you going to keep the hundreds if not thousands of people who were involved in this great big conspiracy quiet? how do you stop just one of them leaking it all to the media saying IT WAS US!

Gauatanamo bay!!! Very nice place I hear. I wonder how many other hidden places they have in the world to hide people....:hmm:

Do some research. Look into it. I did. No one showed me. At first I though oh man someone's attacking the US. I really was shocked when that happened. When I was watching some videos at the time something just didn't add up. So I didn't think about it then. Later I heard more issue poping up. So I wanted to see why. Did some digging and reading etc.

Reasons?

Figure it out dudes.

[Stealth Hunter]

I was amazed at how many people are unaware that the United States once backed Al Qaeda when the Russians invaded Afghanistan... really... I thought more people knew about it...

[AVGWarhawk]

The trade centers were constructed with a exoskeleton as support. The persons who took control of the planes obviously studied these buildings and it's construction thus understanding it's weak points creating a possible collapse. They studied well and found that hitting the corners of the building could create a unstable structure producing a collapse. Of course we know the results. This was well planned and well executed.

while i do not disagree with your general point, i'd like to say that it is not necessarily true that the attackers fully understood the weaknesses of the structure.

Firstly, from what is known, the targets were chosen not for their vulnerability but for their symbolic value

Secondly early reports from Bin Laden's camp reported a reaction of surprise that the buildings collapsed completely

I would have to disagree on the symbolic value....these buildings are the World Trade Centers...I believe it to be more a financial disruption. The stock markets closed for days. Many financial firms were in this building. Symbolically, I would think they would have gone after some structure in DC if that is the point they were attempting to make. The Pentagon, symbolic of the weakness in America the building that houses all the armed forces is readily attacked. The 3rd plane was headed south towards DC. I do not believe it is know were this plane was headed. I suspect a target in Washington DC. Of course the passengers ended that flight in a field located in PA. So we will never know unless the master minds start talking. Perhaps since the trade centers were hit they were after a secondary target of opportunity? I'm not sure. I have not heard or read anything about surprise by the group of individuals behind this that the building collapsed. Hitting the corners looked to be deliberate to me.

[AVGWarhawk]

I was amazed at how many people are unaware that the United States once backed Al Qaeda when the Russians invaded Afghanistan... really... I thought more people knew about it...

It is well known that the US has some very strange bed fellows around the world.

[claybirdd]

I personally do not at all buy intothe conspiracy theory. It was terrorist.

my beef is that I think flight 93 was shot down. It makes perfect sense to shoot the 4th plane down that is attacking your country. and I seriously doubt passangers attacked the terrorists to such a degree that they accidently crashed the plane. An f-16 more than likley fired a AIM-9 at the engines. makes sense to me.

[joea]

....

So what happened to Flight 77?


BTW Zeitgeist is one of the worst films I've seen in terms of history and Alex Jones is a fraud.

[August]

Gauatanamo bay!!! Very nice place I hear. I wonder how many other hidden places they have in the world to hide people....:hmm:

Do some research. Look into it. I did. No one showed me. At first I though oh man someone's attacking the US. I really was shocked when that happened. When I was watching some videos at the time something just didn't add up. So I didn't think about it then. Later I heard more issue poping up. So I wanted to see why. Did some digging and reading etc.

Reasons?

Figure it out dudes.

Right. Guantanamo bay. :roll:

You just figured this all out by yourself with the help of a few websites and books didja? So where did you get your engineering degree Wolfehunter? And how did you get ahold of evidence that nobody else in the world has?

Personally I think you are either:

A. Making fun of the tragic death of 3000 people. (the most likely explanation imo)

or

B. So eager to see the US brought down a peg or two that you'd believe the clouds were made of cotton candy if that would be considered George Bush's fault.

[mrbeast]

Gauatanamo bay!!! Very nice place I hear. I wonder how many other hidden places they have in the world to hide people....:hmm:

Do some research. Look into it. I did. No one showed me. At first I though oh man someone's attacking the US. I really was shocked when that happened. When I was watching some videos at the time something just didn't add up. So I didn't think about it then. Later I heard more issue poping up. So I wanted to see why. Did some digging and reading etc.

Reasons?

Figure it out dudes.

Its one thing to keep a secret detention centre tucked away in the back of beyond; relatively few people need to be in on the secret to operate it and its even better if you locate it in a friendly nation that has little or no freedom of speech, even less chance of its exsistance being leaked.

But to launch an attack on your own financial centre in full view of the world?

Such a conspiracy would have to involve hundreds - thousands of people!

Plus to launch an attack like this would be pure insanity, no government would contemplate such a thing.

9/11 is a gift to conspiracy theorists; the reality is that Islamic terrorists were responsible for the attack, just as Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, there were no aliens at Roswell and Neil Armstrong did walk on the Moon!

[Tchocky]

I'm certain that we weren't told the full and honest truth about 9/11, but I'm equally sure that the Bush administration is so thoroughly incompetent as to make their involvement highly unlikely.

[August]

9/11 is a gift to conspiracy theorists; the reality is that Islamic terrorists were responsible for the attack, just as Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, there were no aliens at Roswell and Neil Armstrong did walk on the Moon!

Way to crush all his beliefs mrbeast! :lol:

At least you left him his Elvis reincarnated as a bat baby theory...

:rotfl:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I'm certain that we weren't told the full and honest truth about 9/11, but I'm equally sure that the Bush administration is so thoroughly incompetent as to make their involvement highly unlikely.


:yep:

[Wolfehunter]

Right. Guantanamo bay. :roll:
Don't look at me dude. I don't own these secret detention camps?


You just figured this all out by yourself with the help of a few websites and books didja? So where did you get your engineering degree Wolfehunter? And how did you get ahold of evidence that nobody else in the world has?
No engineering degree. I don't possess any more information that anyone can get access too.



Personally I think you are either:

A. Making fun of the tragic death of 3000 people. (the most likely explanation imo)
I never make fun of people who were murdered.



or

B. So eager to see the US brought down a peg or two that you'd believe the clouds were made of cotton candy if that would be considered George Bush's fault.No. I would like to see the USA for its people land of the free. Not a fascist like state. (Bush is a pawn nothing more. His purpose is to direct the anger from the real people in power.)

People need to know the truth for or against the issues at hand to have critical arguments. The risk of having a democracy is that there are bad elements who could abuse this info and hurt the people. Those are risks of free societies.

[joea]

....
So what happened to Flight 77?


BTW Zeitgeist is one of the worst films I've seen in terms of history and Alex Jones is a fraud.
One of those annoying little questions...btw I recommend people read Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.

Shows how to apply the BS detector.

[August]

People need to know the truth for or against the issues at hand to have critical arguments.
We know the truth:

19 members of the terrorist group Al Quaeda hijacked four civilian airliners filled with innocent people and flew three of them into buildings packed with more civilians, resulting in huge amounts of death and destruction. The passengers of the fourth airliner, having gotten word of their intended fate via cell phone calls from loved ones, chose to fight back instead, causing the aircraft to crash into a Pennsylvania field but undoubtedly saving the lives of hundreds if not thousands of people on the ground at the hijackers intended target.

Those are the facts of what happened on the 11th of September 2001 and no foolish conspiracy theory is going to change it.

[TDK1044]

The design of the buildings doomed them. They were each struck by fast moving, large commercial planes filled with plenty of gas.

The conspiricy nonsense is just that.

[Wolfehunter]

People need to know the truth for or against the issues at hand to have critical arguments.

We know the truth:

19 members of the terrorist group Al Quaeda hijacked four civilian airliners filled with innocent people and flew three of them into buildings packed with more civilians, resulting in huge amounts of death and destruction. The passengers of the fourth airliner, having gotten word of their intended fate via cell phone calls from loved ones, chose to fight back instead, causing the aircraft to crash into a Pennsylvania field but undoubtedly saving the lives of hundreds if not thousands of people on the ground at the hijackers intended target.

Those are the facts of what happened on the 9th of September 2001 and no foolish conspiracy theory is going to change it.Your only hearing the truth they think you need to know. Same ones who screwed up in protecting you and same ones who are hiding info today. Why? If there so right why hold back on some details?

[Wolfehunter]

The design of the buildings doomed them. They were each struck by fast moving, large commercial planes filled with plenty of gas.

The conspiricy nonsense is just that.Some sources on the building stucture. Alot of stuff out there.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

[August]

Your only hearing the truth they think you need to know. Same ones who screwed up in protecting you and same ones who are hiding info today. Why? If there so right why hold back on some details?

What details? The ones you made up, or misconstrued to fit your conspiracy theories? While you're listing them also please explain the motivation for our own government (or Israeli saboteurs, or space aliens) to do this.

The single most glaring omission behind all of these conspiracy theories is motive.

[Takeda Shingen]

Maybe we should merge this one with the Freemasons thread. The truth is out there.

[TDK1044]

Facts are always more boring than contrived theories. There seems to be a human need to construct conspiracy theories about significant events in history. It's always the boring old facts that win out though. :D

[Wolfehunter]

Your only hearing the truth they think you need to know. Same ones who screwed up in protecting you and same ones who are hiding info today. Why? If there so right why hold back on some details?

What details? The ones you made up, or misconstrued to fit your conspiracy theories? While you're listing them also please explain the motivation for our own government (or Israeli saboteurs, or space aliens) to do this.

The single most glaring omission behind all of these conspiracy theories is motive.I didn't make this stuff up. I read this stuff and hear this stuff from other sources. I didn't pick side yet. But I'm favouring the theorist groups based on the information available. If your government is so right then show the evidence to prove the Theorist hippies wrong. Untill then they're hiding info. So conclusion at the moment shows these X-file fanatics are on the right side.

Why is your government a target? They're the controling factor to a "nation built on freedom" in the world. The example that other nations should respect and hopefully follow.

Now your government is rewritting your nation on a different ideology.

This example is being watched by other nations and will follow and learn from your mistakes. Not in a positive way.


Motivations? Theres alot. A few that seem reasonable is money power and control.

Money = world economic domination for a small select group of greedy people.

Power = This group could manipulate Governments and there military plus citizens also industry.

Control = Government then can eliminate human rights, people, Constitutions etc for the purpose of slaving the population. Tactics are fear, propaganda, force and more. This keeps people disoriented, no belief, weak.

These look like good reasons. Small chance of a revolution if people are influenced by powers to be.

I could have added a hell of alot more but I don't feel like writing a thesis on this.

August pls stop trying to put words in my mouth and make me look like the leader of the great alien invasion force to destroy the US. I'm just showing cons against your statments.

Let me ask you this since you didn't answer question before but you seem to expect me to answer your question which I did in respect. Please add your theories. I'm all ears.;) I should say I'm all eyes in this case.:hmm:

Why is your Government hiding information?

Do you know why?

[August]

If your government is so right then show the evidence to prove the Theorist hippies wrong. Untill then they're hiding info.


Each and every aspect of the incident has been explained and demonstrated over and over again by experts, people with actual degrees in engineering and related fields, but apparently you'd rather believe internet blog written by some anonymous crackpots.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth but really, how am I supposed to take you seriously when you refuse to believe even the stuff you link to?

Seriously, this is your own link, READ THIS. It's only a FAQ but it blows the conspiracy theories right out of the water.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

[STEED]

Care to note Alex Jones. ;)

Problem is poor old AJ has a hard time separating fact from fiction which results in some sort of hotch botch outcome. After all he is known as the worlds No.1 conspiracy expert.

[Wolfehunter]

If your government is so right then show the evidence to prove the Theorist hippies wrong. Untill then they're hiding info.


Each and every aspect of the incident has been explained and demonstrated over and over again by experts, people with actual degrees in engineering and related fields, but apparently you'd rather believe internet blog written by some anonymous crackpots.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth but really, how am I supposed to take you seriously when you refuse to believe even the stuff you link to?

Seriously, this is your own link, READ THIS. It's only a FAQ but it blows the conspiracy theories right out of the water.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
Correct. I put that link there as a pro to the discusion. Supporting your argument. Only problem I see with this link to they're facts and I may have missed it is where are there sources? They claim to have 1000's of specialists looking over all kinds of data and evidence. Who are they? Them? Some independents? etc.

To understand something doesn't mean you need a degree. It helps but not required to think. It's a bonus to know the actual science. But if other do know it and show it then you read or view pro's and con's then you can come to an understanding even with or without a degree.

Just because some old fart sign his signature on a paper saying you know something doesn't grant you god like power above everyone else. People can learn and think. Proper knowledge helps. What I show are sources who did the details and have the knowledge in what they are trying to show us.


Some blogs online seem to make sense. They're is logic in there words. How truthful is debateable but that's what we are doing? Constructive arguements. hehehe.:up:

Peace August, I support american people.. Not your Government.

:D Still I'm waiting for your rebuttal on my 2 questions if possible..:hmm:

[Platapus]

With due respect to UDT/Seal training, their version of demolition training is geared toward the military tactical concept known as "blowing **** up". In EOD school we also under went demolition training. We learned to BSU. However, this is totally different from the civil engineering field of demolition. Ask any EOD troop who tried to apply for a civilian demolition job :nope:

Before I would entertain any theories of US conspiracy...just pause a moment and think about this. Can you really imagine the government blowing up their own buildings and killing their own citizens, adversely affecting entire economies? Do we really think this would happen?... There are far simpler ways to get the end result that are way easier to implement without the losses.......

Anyway, before I would entertain any theories of US conspiracy I would want to hear from a certified Civil Engineer experienced with that type of building and more importantly applicable demolition procedures for that structure type to weigh in. Some retired Seal, as much as I respect them, is not an authority of the complexities of high rise demolition effects. Explosive effects through structures is complicated and difficult to model completely.

The sad fact is that a bunch of highly motivated individuals managed to exploit a security weakness and crash an aircraft each into two high rise buildings.

Whether they intended to collapse the towers is unknown.
Whether they even expected to collapse the towers is unknown.

My opinion: If the objective was the ensured collapse of the towers, I would imagine it would be better to hit them a lot lower.

One of the best ways to refute a conspiracy is to accept it, for the sake of argument, and then analyze the logistics of implementing the conspiracy. Try that with this conspiracy and I wager you will find it to be an awfully complicated conspiracy with little payoff.

Oh by the way, Mr. Ventura. Jet fuel burns pretty fricking hot. One of the many problems with designing a jet engine is to prevent the fuel from burning through components made of pretty strong metal.

[Tchocky]

I take it that's the idea that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel?

All I can say to that is - pour petrol on your hand and light it. It won't melt you, but you'll run around a-whoopin' and a-hollerin'. Don't have to melt to be structurally unsound.

And since the talk has turned to conspiracy in general, have one from this week - http://stevequayle.com/News.alert/08_Nukes/080624.US-Russia.war.html

[August]

Who are they? Them? Some independents? etc.

Again from the link you posted:

Key News and Updates

Minutes of the NCST Advisory Committee meeting, December 18, 2007 (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACmeetingDec18_2007.htm)
NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster FAQs - Supplement (December 14, 2007) (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_12_2007.htm)
National Construction Safety Team Advisory Committee Meeting, December 18, 2007 (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACmeetingDec18_2007.htm)
Federal Register Notice Seeking Nominations for Membership on NIST Federal Advisory Committees (http://www.nist.gov/cgi-bin/exit_nist.cgi?url=http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/07-3548.htm)
NIST Status Update on World Trade Center 7 Investigation (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_062907.html)
NIST WTC Recommendations Spur New Model Building Codes (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_062007.html)
Minutes of the NCST Advisory Committee meeting, December 14, 2006 (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACmeetingDec06.htm)
Presentation: "WTC 7 Technical Approach and Status Summary", December 12, 2006, Therese McAllister, NIST (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/WTC7_Approach_Summary12Dec06.pdf)
Testimony of Dr. S. Shyam Sunder (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/testimony/TestimonySept8_06.pdf) Before New York City Council Joint Meeting, Committees on Lower Manhattan Redevelopment; Fire & Criminal Justice Services Hearing on “Oversight - Issues of Health and Safety Regarding the Storage of Diesel Fuel at 60 Hudson Street, Manhattan”, September 8, 2006
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions About the NIST Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)
Draft Report Available for Public Comment: Best Practices for Reducing the Potential for Progressive Collapse in Buildings (http://www.bfrl.nist.gov/861/861pubs/collapse/index.htm)
Remarks on Progressive Collapse by Dr. S. Shyam Sunder at May 1, 2006 Meeting of NIBS Building Code Experts and Structural Engineering Organizations (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Sunder_Progressive%20Collapse_Remarks_050106.pdf)
World Trade Center Study Spurs Improvement of Codes (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/techbeat/tb2006_0413.htm#wtc)
ICC Code Change Proposals (http://wtc.nist.gov/NIBS_MMC/CodeChangeProposals.htm)
NIST Statement on Progressive Collapse (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/ProgressiveCollapse.htm) NIST WTC Investigation General Information

NIST Response to the World Trade Center Disaster (http://wtc.nist.gov/WTC%20Response%20Presentation%2011122002%20text.pd f) (pdf)
NIST Plan for the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/WTCplan_new.htm)
NIST's Investigation of the Sept. 11 World Trade Center Disaster - FAQs (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/nist_investigation_911.htm)

Launch of NIST WTC Investigation - August 2002

Commerce's NIST Details Federal Investigation of World Trade Center Collapse (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/n02-14.htm)
Remarks by Dr. Arden L. Bement, Jr. at NIST WTC News Briefing (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/bementremarks.htm)
Remarks by Dr. Shyam Sunder at NIST WTC News Briefing (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/sunderremarks.htm)
Highlights of Revisions to WTC Investigation Plan Based on Public Comments (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/highlights.htm) Background on Related NIST Work

National Construction Safety Team Advisory Committee (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/ncst.htm#NCST)
National Construction Safety Team Technical Investigation Plan: The Station Nightclub, West Warwick, RI; February 20, 2003 (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/ncst_techinvest.htm)
Construction Safety Investigations (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/ncst.htm)
NIST Building Fire and Structural Failure Investigations (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/bfrlinvestigations.htm)

[August]

Why is your Government hiding information?

My government isn't hiding information, at least regarding the destruction of the world trade center buildings.

Do you know why?

Why what?

[Wolfehunter]

Why is your Government hiding information?

My government isn't hiding information, at least regarding the destruction of the world trade center buildings.

Do you know why?

Why what?Ah I forgot....:damn: Anyhow thanks for you answer.

Darn it I knew I missed the sources above. Well back to reading...;)

[baggygreen]

I take it that's the idea that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel?

All I can say to that is - pour petrol on your hand and light it. It won't melt you, but you'll run around a-whoopin' and a-hollerin'. Don't have to melt to be structurally unsound.

And since the talk has turned to conspiracy in general, have one from this week - http://stevequayle.com/News.alert/08_Nukes/080624.US-Russia.war.htmlThanks Tchock, that was a brilliant read!

[darius359au]

I blame The Illuminanti ! , everyone knows that their behind everything that happens in the world:yep: - Of course , Echelon is going to discover my use of the Word "Illumunanti" and their enforcers are going to hunt me down because I've revealed their secret (Echelon was created by the Illuminanti to hunt down those who know too much:yep: ).

[August]

Why is your Government hiding information?
My government isn't hiding information, at least regarding the destruction of the world trade center buildings.

Do you know why?
Why what?Ah I forgot....:damn: Anyhow thanks for you answer.

Darn it I knew I missed the sources above. Well back to reading...;)

Enjoy. That stuff tends to put me to sleep.

Oh one more thing before you go:

You said:

Peace August, I support american people.. Not your Government.

Well peace to you too (and i do mean that) but FYI here in the US the people ARE the government. This strange notion you Europeans (I'm assuming you are European since you choose not to let us know in your profile) have that "the Government" is some independent entity with a life of its own is a concept that is barely comprehensible to many of us on this side of the pond.

[MothBalls]

Whatcha think?

I think he spends too much time on the Internets.

[Wolfehunter]

Why is your Government hiding information?
My government isn't hiding information, at least regarding the destruction of the world trade center buildings.

Do you know why?
Why what?Ah I forgot....:damn: Anyhow thanks for you answer.

Darn it I knew I missed the sources above. Well back to reading...;)

Enjoy. That stuff tends to put me to sleep.

Oh one more thing before you go:

You said:

Peace August, I support american people.. Not your Government.

Well peace to you too (and i do mean that) but FYI here in the US the people ARE the government. This strange notion you Europeans (I'm assuming you are European since you choose not to let us know in your profile) have that "the Government" is some independent entity with a life of its own is a concept that is barely comprehensible to many of us on this side of the pond.lol I'm stuned August. I would have thought you have figured out in one of my earlier post that I'm Canadian since you gave me permission to insult the US Media cartels?

Your right technically about the Peoples Government but they are corrupt and still treat the average american like cattle.
Cheers dudes :()1:

[Sailor Steve]

One of the problems I have with the conspiracy theories is that of opportunity. For the buildings to collapse due to a controlled detonation, the detonating charges would have to be put into place. By somebody. And how many charges on how many floors would it take? How many somebodies placed these charges without anybody else noticing?

I said it about the disappearance of NASA's moon photos, and I'll say it again here: I'll believe screw-up before I believe cover-up, every time. A cover-up requires dozens, hundreds or even thousands of people to not say a word, ever. A screw-up just requires one or two people to, well, screw up.

[Platapus]

I'll believe screw-up before I believe cover-up, every time.

Ding!

A winner :up:

[fatty]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.

[baggygreen]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.Now here's a wise man! :up:

Edit: Don't tase me!!!!! :D

[PeriscopeDepth]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.
Ouch! You logic'ed me.

PD

[Platapus]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) the United States government aint too good at planning and implementing these types of big conspiracies.

[MothBalls]

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) the United States government aint too good at planning and implementing these types of big conspiracies.

Just don't tell this to JFK or his family.

[Sailor Steve]

Facts are always more boring than contrived theories. There seems to be a human need to construct conspiracy theories about significant events in history. It's always the boring old facts that win out though. :D
So very true. I once had several run-ins with a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy buff. He was absolutely sure of all of them: JFK, the moon landings, Roswell - you name it. One day I asked him if he knew about the conspiracy to assassinate Lincoln. His eyes got big and he started breathing hard. "There was a conspiracy in the Lincoln assassination?"

I told him "Yep. Booth was to shoot the president, another guy was to kill Vice President Johnson, and a third was to kill Secretary of State Seward. The VP guy chickened out, and the State attempt was foiled by Seward's son. They hanged three people, plus Mary Surrat, the woman who owned the hotel where all the plotting was done."

When he realized the conspiracy was a real one, his eyes glazed over and he walked away. People don't want the truth; they want something exciting and different, however bizarre it may be.

Do I believe such a thing is possible? Of course - anything is possible. JFK may have been killed by the CIA, mafia, or Castro; or by secret order of Lyndon Johnson. There may be aliens stored away somewhere, and FDR may have planned the Pearl Harbor attack himself (I still point that out whenever I see the old footage of Dauntlesses in attack mode immediately followed by shots of Pearl burning). Just don't tell me I HAVE to believe it. The truth is usually much simpler, and sometimes things are exactly what they seem.

[MothBalls]

People don't want the truth; they want something exciting and different, however bizarre it may be.

This is true. I have an idea, we should publish a magazine that tells nothing but rumors, conspiracies, half-truths and doctored photographs of celebrities and politicians. We could make millions.

[darius359au]

People don't want the truth; they want something exciting and different, however bizarre it may be.
This is true. I have an idea, we should publish a magazine that tells nothing but rumors, conspiracies, half-truths and doctored photographs of celebrities and politicians. We could make millions.

Isn't that the National Enquirer ?:rotfl:

[Platapus]

People don't want the truth; they want something exciting and different, however bizarre it may be.
This is true. I have an idea, we should publish a magazine that tells nothing but rumors, conspiracies, half-truths and doctored photographs of celebrities and politicians. We could make millions.

Isn't that the National Enquirer ?:rotfl:


Fox News? :)

[OneToughHerring]

Haven't really gotten into this "it was a hoax" - etc. stuff, IMO the whole thing especially with the Iraq war is crooked enough from the get go that no extra conspiracies aren't even needed.

But just to chime in, that third building, or was it fourth, that did indeed take a while before it collapsed, I remember seeing some footage that was showed on television that showed that there were these loud noises coming from either that building or some other. Noises like very loud cracks or explosions if you really wanna twist it. This was after the collapse of the twin towers and the cause for the delayed collapse of that one building was that there was some tremors or something from the two towers and led to the subsequent collapse of that one building. So no bombs, just a somewhat shoddy building.

Personally I think that the fact that high rise buildings all over USA and also elsewhere in the world are just shoddily built and therefore can collapse much easier then has been previously thought is a much more terrifying thought then some measly conspiracy. Hope someone understand what I'm getting at.

But, alas, this is just My Very Own And Very Subjective And Very Humble Opinion.

[mrbeast]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.

If 9/11 was a US government conpiracy, why didn't they simply fabricate evidence of Iraqi ivolvement? Surely that would have made their future foriegn policy strategy a lot easier to pull off. :hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.

If 9/11 was a US government conpiracy, why didn't they simply fabricate evidence of Iraqi ivolvement? Surely that would have made their future foriegn policy strategy a lot easier to pull off. :hmm:
Hmm. Never thought of that one. You're right - if the rest of the world thought that Iraq was behind it we would have had the entire UN supporting us.

[Enigma]

:damn:

The smoking gun(s) that the government was NOT involved in 9/11 are:

A) It worked

B) In order to pull such a thing off, they would have to be competent.

Case closed.

[August]

But, alas, this is just My Very Own And Very Subjective And Very Humble Opinion.

Be careful! :o

That's enough to get you on ignore lists around here... :yep: :D

[Tchocky]

If the U.S. government was diabolical enough to carry out 9/11, I'm sure they would also be diabolical enough to plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.
If 9/11 was a US government conpiracy, why didn't they simply fabricate evidence of Iraqi ivolvement? Surely that would have made their future foriegn policy strategy a lot easier to pull off. :hmm: Hmm. Never thought of that one. You're right - if the rest of the world thought that Iraq was behind it we would have had the entire UN supporting us.
A large proportion of Americans (~30%) believed Iraq was involved.

[MothBalls]

People don't want the truth; they want something exciting and different, however bizarre it may be.
This is true. I have an idea, we should publish a magazine that tells nothing but rumors, conspiracies, half-truths and doctored photographs of celebrities and politicians. We could make millions.

Isn't that the National Enquirer ?:rotfl:


Fox News? :)

Damn those guys took our idea.

[Fish]

The design of the buildings doomed them. They were each struck by fast moving, large commercial planes filled with plenty of gas.

The conspiricy nonsense is just that.Some sources on the building stucture. Alot of stuff out there.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

Wolfehunter, you wanna talk 9/11?
This is the place for you!

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

[Dowly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRBRBIXbtg

:rotfl:

[Stealth Hunter]

People don't want the truth; they want something exciting and different, however bizarre it may be.
This is true. I have an idea, we should publish a magazine that tells nothing but rumors, conspiracies, half-truths and doctored photographs of celebrities and politicians. We could make millions.

Isn't that the National Enquirer ?:rotfl:


Fox News? :)

Batboy Captures Hussein!

Saw that on the National Enquirer a few years ago inside a Wal-Mart.:rotfl:

[Randomizer]

If the moon landings never happened then how could the National Enquirer know about the statue of Elvis that is supposedly there?:hmm:

Shhh. The total lack of creditable evidence is positive proof that the conspiracy is working.

Good Hunting

[Jimbuna]

The truth is out there....does anyone know the url.

http://planetsmilies.net/alien-smiley-126.gif

[MothBalls]

The truth is out there....does anyone know the url.

http://planetsmilies.net/alien-smiley-126.gif

Yes. I just googled, the truth is out there , and clicked on I feel Lucky. This is what I got:

http://www.aliensthetruth.com/
UFOs exist, the proof is undeniable.That was the first line on the first page, so it must be true if it's on the Internets.

[Wolfehunter]

The design of the buildings doomed them. They were each struck by fast moving, large commercial planes filled with plenty of gas.

The conspiricy nonsense is just that.Some sources on the building stucture. Alot of stuff out there.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

Wolfehunter, you wanna talk 9/11?
This is the place for you!

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

Naw. Thanks I like it here just fine..... ;) Plus I can pick on August...;) he's easy to anger...:rotfl:

Jim I can't get enough of them animated gifs.:up:

[Wolfehunter]

The truth is out there....does anyone know the url.

http://planetsmilies.net/alien-smiley-126.gif

Yes. I just googled, the truth is out there , and clicked on I feel Lucky. This is what I got:

http://www.aliensthetruth.com/
UFOs exist, the proof is undeniable.That was the first line on the first page, so it must be true if it's on the Internets.Ofcourse they exsist the Germans made them,:yep:

http://www.eyepod.org/Nazi-Disc-Photos.html

:o :rotfl:

[TheSatyr]

What I find interesting is that Bin Laden (Who either studied engineering or architecture...I forget which) supposedly was surprised himself that the WTC collapsed. He apparently thought that from his studies of the WTC that only the floors above where the planes hit would collapse.

You can say one thing about that guy...he is persistant. Which makes me concerned about LAX. Al Quaeda has planned at least two attacks there that never went off. He seems to be the kind of person who would keep trying until he succeeds.

[OneToughHerring]

What I find interesting is that Bin Laden (Who either studied engineering or architecture...I forget which) supposedly was surprised himself that the WTC collapsed. He apparently thought that from his studies of the WTC that only the floors above where the planes hit would collapse.

The Bin Laden's have been in construction business.

I read the same thing, although I'm sure there are people who will not take that into consideration as a lenient factor. Like I wrote earlier the fact that there were structural weaknesses in the Twin Towers and also the WTC 7 building is a significant factor in the whole mess. What has happened has happened and can't be reversed but if something good will come out of it all it could be that there is more stricter building codes enforced and high rise builders, the Donald Trumps of the world, will have to take safety etc. into consideration.

I already said this once, I will shut up now about all this. :)