New Rig.. off topic

[C DuDe]

Hi,

I'm currently thinking of buying a new rig but it's bin 5years since I had the pleasure of doing so. I'm a bit lost in the maze of goodies.


This is what I'm thinking of:

Case : (big tower yet to be determined)
Power : Chieftec CFT-1200G-DF (1200watts 80% capacity)
Mobo : XFX Nvidia Nforce 790i SLi (1333MHz)
Processor : 2Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9450 (1333MHz)
Processor Coolers : (No idea at all but it has to be up to the task)
Additional Coolers : (No idea at all but it has to be quiet)
Vid.Card : Nvidia 9800GX2 (as this card is... well a bit expensive, I would like to know if there's a card which performs about the same but costs less)
Memory : (Brand yet to be determined) 2GG cas/ras 9.9.9 (1333Mhz)
Hardisk : 750GG Maxtor DimondMax 22
Sound Card : Non (as I have a Plantronics Game headset which is awesome)

I'm not interested in overclocking just want a stable rig that will work for the next 5 to 8 years.

This rig is around 1500,00 euro's which is just a coupple of 100,00 euro's over my budget.

Is there somenone who can give me an idea of what to buy for the things marked in RED & GREEN or has other or additional ideas?

Thx for replying,

CD

[antares81]

I have a 9800GX2,
Be absolutely sure that you have a huge case for this card, as it is very very large.
I had to make some modifications to my case and to my south bridge heat sinks for this card to fit. ( though I would think that your mobo would fit it)
Good ambient cooling is a must. The 9800GX2 can sometimes idle between 72C - 78C.

I would also consider getting a power supply with 1X 12V rail.(and this is up for debate)
It should be at least 32A, but most decent supplies can put out 52A and above on the 12V.

1200Watts means nothing to the video card, stability is all about stable amperage.
Several people have not been able to get the best results with multi-rail power supplies, I am one of them.

So in short, the 9800GX2 kicks ass, but you usually have to make some concessions to get it to work properly.

Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer. They had none in stock, so was forced to send me a 9800GX2.
With the current drivers, I notice almost no difference in performance at this time.

I would use any Zalman CNPS cooler. They look ridicules but are very effective. Also pretty easy to install compared to the crappy intel stock cooler.

[Ishigami]

I wouldn’t recommend a multi GPU solution like CF/SLI or multi GPU card. I think it is better to rely on a single GPU card.
Multi GPU solution like CF, SLI or multi GPU cards suffer from the same problems. They need a good driver to be effective and this varies from game to game and even then they all suffer from micro stuttering which ruins partly the performance advantage.
I feel buying e.g. the new GTX 260 is more appropriated (maybe too expensive). Depending on the game it’s as fast as or even faster than a 9800 GX2 and has no micro stuttering.
Yet the new Radeon 4870 which will soon be released could be an alternative. No physic acceleration but Dx10.1 which will result if support by game in a better AA.

The next thing is that I think an SLI board is unnecessary. As I do not consider SLI as an option a board for it is of course a waste. CPU from Intel runs best on a chipset by Intel. Even if not faster they are more stable.

As for the CPU cooler I recommend a tower cooler form Noctua. They are quiet and effective. I recommend the NH-U12P. You may want to consider changing the shipped NS-P12 fan to a NF-S12 fan if you want to further optimize the noise level.
The NF-S12 is also the fan I recommend for the case, these are really quiet. They also have 80mm fans if necessary but that’s only a NF-R8.
Noctua Homepage: http://www.noctua.at (http://www.noctua.at/)

A 1200 watt power unit is oversized by far. For this PC without SLI or CF a 500 to 600 watt power unit is enough. You could save about 50 to 100€. I’m not telling you to buy cheap one the power unit is very important and most time it’s not considered accordingly BUT it’s just that you never will need 1200 watt.
Good power units would be the Enermax Liberty or Infiniti series in my opinion.

As for Quad Core CPUs most games do not take advantage of it at all. I bet the fastest Core 2 Duo will be faster in all games than this quad.
I thereby recommend the Core 2 Duo E8500 which will save another 100€.
Remember: A FASTER 3D ACCELERATOR IS BETTER THAN A FASTER CPU!
You better spend this 100€ on your GPU than on the CPU.

[UnderseaLcpl]

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

[antares81]

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

Judging by his taste in hardware, I would suspect that he wants to be able to play all the newest games. That is something that a Mac just can't offer.

[C DuDe]

@ antares81

[Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer.]
I presume your talking about this card : (brand in this case: PNY) GeForce 8 8800GTX PCI-E 768MB.
Or are you talking about a different card?


@ Ishigami

[I feel buying e.g. the new GTX 260 is more appropriated (maybe too expensive)]
Are you talking about those?
XFX GeForce GTX 260 ,896MB, DDR3, PCI Express (going for €327,60)
Leadtek GeForce GTX 260 ,DDR3, PCI Express x16 (going for €348,60)
Which in any case is cheaper then the 9800GX2 (cheapest going for €390,00)


I hope you don't mind, I've visited so many sites and read so many articles, I'm getting lost in the maze called PC building.

I came up with this rig:

Case : NZXT Zero Tower
Power : PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad CrossFire Edition
Mobo : MSI X48 Platinum (not quite happy about this one though) any recommandation whould be appreciated.
Processor : Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8500 (considering your input Ishigami)
Processor Coolers : Zalman CNPS 8700NT (odd thing, I was already looking at those coolers antares81).
Additional Coolers : Not needed as the case has 7 of them already (120mm)
Vid.Card : on of the above mentioned GTX 260
Memory : Corsair DIMM 2 GB DDR3-1333
Hardisk : 750GG Maxtor DimondMax 22 (might replace this with the one I have in my old rig)
Sound Card : Non (as I have a Plantronics Game headset which is awesome)
(http://tweakers.net/pricewatch)

[C DuDe]

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

Judging by his taste in hardware, I would suspect that he wants to be able to play all the newest games. That is something that a Mac just can't offer.

For his next PC he might want to go to www.alienware.com (http://www.alienware.com) :smug: . I've bin thinking about it but came to the conclusion that the shipment cost would be to great as I live in Europe.... not to mention getting it through Customs without them noticing it :88) and having to pay additional tax over it.:doh:

[kylesplanet]

I could hardly be considered a computer geek (to my everlasting detriment) as my knowledge of computers is limited to rather basic software troubleshooting, some ability to fix the registry and an even more limited knowledge of hardware conflicts and the like but I suggest you evaluate Macs.
I may be speaking out of ignorance here but since I got an iMac (running Vista under Boot Camp) my PC troubles have all but evaporated. Even if I ever had a catastrophic failure on Vista I can always go to the Mac portion of the drive and just delete/reinstall the whole damn thing.
Please remember that in no way am I qualified to give you good advice about computers but I have been through 4 pc's in 5 years and so far the Mac has been my best investment.
In any case good luck with whichever system you choose.

Judging by his taste in hardware, I would suspect that he wants to be able to play all the newest games. That is something that a Mac just can't offer.

For his next PC he might want to go to www.alienware.com (http://www.alienware.com) :smug: . I've bin thinking about it but came to the conclusion that the shipment cost would be to great as I live in Europe.... not to mention getting it through Customs without them noticing it :88) and having to pay additional tax over it.:doh:

I have an Alienware and it is a great system but you can build your own for a lot less. I don't build computers because I just don't like the hassle and honestly, I probably don't have enough knowledge to do it correctly.

That is why I went with the Alienware. I really love the thing and have no regrets whatsoever but I might try building one myself next time just for the heck of it.

[antares81]

@ antares81

[Interestingly enough, I had started with an 8800GTX that I had to send back to the manufacturer.]
I presume your talking about this card : (brand in this case: PNY) GeForce 8 8800GTX PCI-E 768MB.
Or are you talking about a different card?


I was talking about the factor OC'd MSI board...
MSI NX8800GTX-T2D768E-HD


and as far as alienware..... you pay a premium for that lower hassle.
Alienware computers are much more expensive, and they often skimp on even the most menial or parts (fans, power supply)

You can often build better systems for 50% of the price, it just takes a little know-how...and sometimes a little sweat.

[Ishigami]

Are you talking about those?
XFX GeForce GTX 260 ,896MB, DDR3, PCI Express (going for €327,60)
Leadtek GeForce GTX 260 ,DDR3, PCI Express x16 (going for €348,60)
Which in any case is cheaper then the 9800GX2 (cheapest going for €390,00)


I hope you don't mind, I've visited so many sites and read so many articles, I'm getting lost in the maze called PC building.

Yes one of those.

[FIREWALL]

I heard Alienware was bought by Dell.

[Ishigami]

Thats correct.

I wouldn’t recommend Alienware or Dell anyway. They are freakn expensive…

[UnderseaLcpl]

Why can't a mac do what a PC can do? It runs the same OS (Vista) and I have 2gigs RAM with and 512mb ATI Radeon something.

[Seminole]

I think it is better to rely on a single GPU card.


That is an interesting observation to say the least.

My 3 SLIed 9800s crank out fantastic framerates .(SHIV for example,runs over 70fps in the middle of the biggest convoy attacks even with the enhanced effects mods installed) With all the games I play, some released back in 2000...and thats with eveything maxed out ...AA...Aniso...ect...ect..ect...I have seen nothing short of fantastic improvement in gameplayability.


Sorry but I have trouble understanding just how it could possibly be better to "rely on a single card." ?

[Arclight]

Why is everyone so in love with Vista? Always have used XP, never any of the issues a lot of poeple have with games. Gaming performance is also better since it's not such a resource hog. I don't get it, but nevermind.

Tip for better performance: get 2 HD's. Install OS on one, put page-file on the other. Gives a very minor benefit, but since you're throwing money at it like there's no tomorrow I figure you have the option to spend. ;)

For excellent advice on these matters I can recommend http://forums.guru3d.com/

You might wanna consider signing up there and posting your rig, they'll straighten you out. Especially picking MoBo can be tricky. I just stuck with a P35 chipset, SLI and such still seems far to fickle.

IMO: -If your gonna run Vista you might consider 4gb RAM.
-A good soundcard is a must for a gaming rig.
-Just buy E8400, spend the money you save on good cooler and overclock. Less money, same performance. Maximum CPU OC will be a little lower, but GPU is way more important.
-Scythe offers some excellent CPU coolers as well.
-Don't forget to order some high performance thermal paste/grease!
-Perhaps some cable-sleeving kits to tidy up inside and increase airflow. Nothing will kill the cooling capacity of your case like wires dangling all over the place.
-Alot of large fans is nice, but make sure they have good capacity (move a lot of air) and they don't sound like a jet-engine when you switch on your PC.

My 3 SLIed 9800s crank out fantastic framerates .(SHIV for example,runs over 70fps in the middle of the biggest convoy attacks even with the enhanced effects mods installed) With all the games I play, some released back in 2000...and thats with eveything maxed out ...AA...Aniso...ect...ect..ect...I have seen nothing short of fantastic improvement in gameplayability.

I manage the same on "old" p35 MoBo with 8800GTS 512. Not in terms of framerates, but certainly playability. Old games all maxed out, no stutters whatsoever in SH4 on max ingame settings + 16xAF and 4xMSAA (any more and sun halo disappears). SLI does however offer much benefit if you're gonna be running everything at 1600x1200; lot more bandwith available (still use old CRT monitor for better colours, max 1280x960 @70hz). Multi GPU also doesn't always work "as advertised".

[Seminole]

:lol: ...whuts stutters????...wasn't that something people used to experience and complain about way back in the old days of XP before dual HDs, quad core , and 8Gbs of RAM as standard gaming requirements:hmm:


Since eveyone is giving advice I'll jump in with mine ....take it for what it is worth...

Don't settle. Wait until you can get a state of the art rig. As soon as you buy a system- what you paid for it immediately becomes irrelevant....that part is over and done.

HOWEVER:


....the problems and limitations associated with a less than optimal gaming computer will stick around to haunt you for a long ...long time.:shifty: :shifty: :shifty:

[C DuDe]

:lol: ...whuts stutters????...wasn't that something people used to experience and complain about way back in the old days of XP before dual HDs, quad core , and 8Gbs of RAM as standard gaming requirements:hmm:


Since eveyone is giving advice I'll jump in with mine ....take it for what it is worth...

Don't settle. Wait until you can get a state of the art rig. As soon as you buy a system- what you paid for it immediately becomes irrelevant....that part is over and done.

HOWEVER:


....the problems and limitations associated with a less than optimal gaming computer will stick around to haunt you for a long ...long time.:shifty: :shifty: :shifty:


I know, as soon as you press 'OK' on the credit card machine and get the "payment accepted" sign it's old.
It would make it a lot easier if I would go for the top nudge but I simply don't have that kind of cash.
To pay about €3000,- to €4000,- for a rig is a bit much even though you might enjoy it for a longer period of time.

@ Arclight
I didn't forget to post there, just didn't have the time to do so yet... did some checking on the site among others.

Vista isn't my thing... waiting for the new Windows version (and see what it does)which is said to come out next year or the year after as Vista flunked the expectations.
Can't remember the name of it though.

[C DuDe]

I know this is going to sound dumb but why are people saying not to go for a SLi if....

Could someone please explain to me in plain English what the difference is between a SLi and a non-SLi board.

I'm getting bombarded by the term on most sites and in reviews but never really understood the idea behind it.

[Arclight]

I'm not an expert on it, don't have SLI, but I'll give it a go;

In a nutshell: SLI-board has multiple slots for graphics cards, preferably all PCI-E 16x. The cards are connected by a bridge that connects the cards at the top. Now the cards can work together to render the frames before they are sent on, dividing the workload. Average gain is about 30%. The biggest benefit AFAIK is the increase in available bandwith. More bandwith means more data can be sent at once. Anti-Aliasing and high resolutions require a lot of bandwith. Especially modern games like Crysis require a lot of bandwith to run smooth on (really) high settings.

In short; if you want to run everything at 1600x1200 with all possible settings maxed, SLI is something to consider.

Something to read; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

Personally, I'd prefer a single card with 2 GPU's (effectively the same as running 2 cards), like Geforce 9800x2 or Radeon 3850x2 / 3870x2. Bandwith of the bus (basically the slot you put the card into) might be an issue in this case, don't know for sure. Guess that's why they came up with PCIE 2.0

As with most things, SLI has benefits and drawbacks. Best advice I can give you is; do some research (that link is a good start), determine what you want to accomplish and decide if you need SLI or not. Ohh, and if you have quesstions just ask, offcourse. ;)

[bunkerratt]

i really like to listen to the guys that complain about sli or crossfire rigs....but they have yet to own build or run one ...and give advice on them...if the man want's to build a sli or crossfire rig ..let um build it ...personaly..i'd never go back to a single gpu rig...

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/391/1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_CrossFire



intel core2 duo e6750 2.66ghz thermaltake big typhoon cpu cooler
asus p5wdh deluxe
twin 100 gb hdd's raid 0 sata 7200 rpm
asus EAH3850 512mb x2 crossfired video cards/w/zalman vf700-cu vga coolers
creative x-fi extreme gamer fatality pro soundcard
coolermaster realpower pro 850 watt psu
dvd r=rw
dvd r=rw dl df
floppy drive
11 in 1 card reader
2 gb pc2 6400 oc'd ocz crossfire memory
1 120 mm front intake fan
1 120mm rear exhaust
1 90 mm top exhaust w/controler
1 90mm rear exhaust w/controler
logitec 5.1 surround speakers/turtle beach 5.1 surround headset
saitek eclipse keyboard
razer deathadder mouse
xp pro sp2
20inch viewsonic vx2035wm
thermaltake armour steel case/250 mm side intake

3dmark06 score 14264

[nikimcbee]

Thats correct.

I wouldn’t recommend Alienware or Dell anyway. They are freakn expensive…

I totally agree. They are way too expensive, just build your own computer, it's not that hard. A little intimidating at most.

[Arclight]

i really like to listen to the guys that complain about sli or crossfire rigs....
And I really like to read posts made by a lot of (but not all) SLI owners containing full specs and benchmarks to prove their rigs superiority. :D

C DuDe: Again, consider what you want / need, do your homework and decide for yourself. ;)

[McBeck]

Vista isn't my thing... waiting for the new Windows version (and see what it does)which is said to come out next year or the year after as Vista flunked the expectations.
Can't remember the name of it though.
Windows 7 is the current codename.
MS has stated that Vista is a step towards the framework that Windows 7 will have.
Something about how programs are linked together etc..

[kylesplanet]

Thats correct.

I wouldn’t recommend Alienware or Dell anyway. They are freakn expensive…

I totally agree. They are way too expensive, just build your own computer, it's not that hard. A little intimidating at most.

Expensive yes but that doesn't make them a bad rig. Building your own is fine if that is what you want to do and as I said before, I may do it in the future just for the heck of it (to see if I can) but right now (or back when I bought my Alienware) I have neither the time nor inclination to do that and they provide a service for a top notch machine and I give them the money for it.

It's kinda like saying "I wouldn't recommend (insert top end sports car) because they're to expensive." I can build a five thousand dollar engine that will smoke most cars that are sold from a dealership but am I willing to do that? I've done it a few times but I'm not likely to do it again anytime soon.

[Defiance]

Hiya's,

Check out replacing the vidcard with an ATI 4870

Just a thought

Def

[C DuDe]

Within 2weeks I should have my new rig!!!:rock:

Spec's:
Case: Antec Performance one P180
PSU : Cool Master Real Power 850W
Mobo: Gigabyte X48-DQ6 (DDR2)
RAM: 4GB Corsair Dominator
Processor: Inter E8400
Cooler: Cool Master Hyper 212
Harddrive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11
Vid-card: 2 Sapphire HD 4870 crossfire
DVD burner (no Blue-ray as yet)
OS: Vista 64bit

This should do the trick for the next couple of years

Thx for all the advice you gave me and I whish you happy hunting!

Greets,

CD