Can anyone recommend a good pistol?

[nikimcbee]

This was my alarmclock yesterday.
I heard a knock at the door at 4pm (I work nights):dead: , which I ignored. A few minutes later, I heard a banging on the wall (I live in a duplex), so I thought the neighbours were putting up a pichure on the wall or something like that.
The next words I hear: "This is the Eugene Po-lice, we know you're in there, come out with your hands up. We want to talk to you!:o "
WTF! I got up and looked out the bedroom window. I could see the top of a bald guy's head with sun glasses, banging on the neighbour's window!

I ran to the front window to look (sheepishly) outside to see what is going on. Police were surrounding the house, yelling at my neighbour to come out! At this point I decided I better get dressed and brush my teeth. To make a long story short, if he didn't come out, they were going to send the police dog in after him!:o

The police came back over to my door and asked if they could search my garage for anybody that may have jumped the fence and would hide in there.

fortunately, nobody. I had search in there earlier. (very sheepishly):oops:

After a few minutes he appeared. Then.... "If there is anyone else in there, come out now, or we are sending in the dog!"

Silence. "okay, we are coming in with the dog!" I could hear some crashing around in the living room as the dog began to search. I ran back into the bedroom to listen to what was going on. No sooner, had I got into my bedroom, I could hear barking, screaming, and yelling. Guess what, the dog found somebody!:o Appearntly he was hiding under the bed.

My neighbour had been robbing cars at the local mall and the police followed him home on a tip. My neighbour was high on meth and was wanted by the police anyway.

Now, he (the neighbour) has some really scummy friends that would come over, so...

I figure Mr. SKS isn't going to do, can anybody recommend a good self defence pistol?

I'm thinking about getting my concealed carry permit also.:arrgh!:

Any ideas?

[Platapus]

This will be an impossible question to answer as there are wide and diverse opinions on the matter.

Under the right circumstances a .22 can kill just as well as a .500.

I would highly recommend reading: In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection by Massad F. Ayoob. You can buy it from Amazon for about 12 bucks. Anyone who is interested in owning a handgun for personal protection needs to read this book.

Second, I would find a good range that offers the appropriate types of training for using handguns for home defense. Depending on the state you are in, this training may be mandatory for your ccw. Ask the instructors for advice on a appropriate type of handgun for your purposes. Also get advice on the proper ammo as ammo types vary widely.

Third, get with your insurance agent and make sure you have a liability umbrella. As Mr. Ayoob describes in his book, even a justified self-defense shooting may end up in a civil case (weird but it does happen).

Fourth, look over your budget. A good quality handgun is not cheap. Also expect to burn through one or two thousand rounds for practice at a minimum. FBI statistics show that untrained shooters will often miss a moving target at 7 feet and have missed a stationary target at 21 feet (the distance most self-defense shootings occur). You will find this out when you start going to a range. Looking at how often people miss the targets should put the fear into you. :)

Choosing to own and carry a handgun for self-defense is not a decision to be taken lightly.

Good luck with it.

[Yahoshua]

9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are going to be your primary calibers of choice.

Glock, Springfield XD, 1911-A1, Taurus PT92, Taurus PT111, and the Taurus 24/7 are all excellent semi-automatic sidearms. Since your primary problem will be people who are high on drugs or home-invasion my suggestion would be to go with a .40 or .45 caliber sidearm.

As far as revolvers go you can't go wrong with S&W.

[bradclark1]

Get a Ruger 22/45 Mk III .22 if you can afford the $300 bucks or buy used. One of the best pistols around and will do what you need it to do. You really don't need anything bigger for what you want and the ammo is cheap enough that you can have fun becoming proficient in it.

[Hakahura]

This baby looks lethal

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6013/supersoakermi0.jpg

http://http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6013/supersoakermi0.jpg

[MothBalls]

Visit some gun shops, call some shooting ranges. There are some ranges that have demo weapons and charge a fee for you to fire them. Some work with local shops and have an inventory of demo weapons. They may not have the exact one, but check the differences between revolvers and semi-autos.

Each type has certain strengths, best to see what works for you. Example, revolvers are easier to maintain but slower to fire and reload. Semi-autos are nice but much more complex. Maintainability is very important, you need to clean it every time you fire it. In the shop have them take it apart and show you how many parts it has.

Look in the shops to see what you might want. Then go to the range and test fire some different weapons.

Common mistakes people make when buying;

Too large. Bigger isn't better if you can't hit anything with it.
If you are going to carry it, get something you can hide 100%.
Think about where you'll keep it in the house, securely.
Think about the style of trigger lock you'll use. All locks don't work on all weapons. A trigger lock is a 100% essential item to have, and a cleaning kit.
Getting the right ammo makes a difference.

Can't stress this enough. Practice and training. Take a class, get some training, fire it often. Get comfortable with it and don't be intimidated by it. You want to practice so much that drawing, firing, and reloading become second nature. Practice with the scenario you'll most likely use. Removing the trigger lock, turn off the safety, then fire, something like that.

[Kaleun Volk]

Mr. SKS would do nicely, however if you do not want to send stray ammunition on through to other people's houses, I would reccomend something smaller. Magnum Research Baby Eagle 9mm is a fine handgun, made by those legendary folks over in Israel.... Some might try to tout about the ".45" but 1911's are costly and fairly large. they are hella reliable but of you are not accustomed to larger weapons I would not reccomend one... PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!! IF YOU CANNOT USE A WEAPON PROPERLY YOU ARE MORE DANGER TO YOURSELF AND LOVEDONES THAN TO THOSE WISHING TO HURT YOU!!!!!!!!!


And always practice FIREARM SAFETY,
-Volk

[Onkel Neal]

Visit some gun shops, call some shooting ranges. There are some ranges that have demo weapons and charge a fee for you to fire them. Some work with local shops and have an inventory of demo weapons. They may not have the exact one, but check the differences between revolvers and semi-autos.

Each type has certain strengths, best to see what works for you. Example, revolvers are easier to maintain but slower to fire and reload. Semi-autos are nice but much more complex. Maintainability is very important, you need to clean it every time you fire it. In the shop have them take it apart and show you how many parts it has.

Look in the shops to see what you might want. Then go to the range and test fire some different weapons.

Common mistakes people make when buying;

Too large. Bigger isn't better if you can't hit anything with it.
If you are going to carry it, get something you can hide 100%.
Think about where you'll keep it in the house, securely.
Think about the style of trigger lock you'll use. All locks don't work on all weapons. A trigger lock is a 100% essential item to have, and a cleaning kit.
Getting the right ammo makes a difference.

Can't stress this enough. Practice and training. Take a class, get some training, fire it often. Get comfortable with it and don't be intimidated by it. You want to practice so much that drawing, firing, and reloading become second nature. Practice with the scenario you'll most likely use. Removing the trigger lock, turn off the safety, then fire, something like that.


I agree with all of the above.


You might also consider moving!




Can't go wrong with a .357 Mag, 4" bl. It will kill dead, no doubt. It's easy to load and shoot, and very accurate. You can use .38 Special rounds for target practice. I have one of these (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=272&category=Revolver), a very sweet gun.

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/65B4.jpg



You have kid in the house so you NEED a trigger lock. No question.


Not sure why you think you need a CCL, have you or anyone you know been mugged? It's a lot of trouble carrying a weapon around in public.

[nikimcbee]

This baby looks lethal

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6013/supersoakermi0.jpg

http://http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6013/supersoakermi0.jpg

...if I fill it with HF or HNO3?:cool:

In all seriousness, I don't really like pistols. I have a black powder .44 colt navy, but that's not practical for home defense. I work with 3 people that have their concealed carry permit:cool: . So I hear all about the pros/cons/legal issues. I haven't hit that level of paranoia yet, where I need to carry a weapon at all times, but I'm rapidlly approaching it.:shifty:

I'm leaning towards a .40 or .45, but I don't really want to pony up the money to buy a good gun.

[nikimcbee]

This baby looks lethal

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6013/supersoakermi0.jpg

http://http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6013/supersoakermi0.jpg

...if I fill it with HF or HNO3?:cool:

.

Speaking of acid... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/650550/nitric_acid_acts_upon_a_copper_penny_experiment/

Been there, done that. Although, whoever did this video is absolutely retarded for not wearing acid rated gloves.:nope:

[nikimcbee]

I agree with all of the above.


You might also consider moving!




Can't go wrong with a .357 Mag, 4" bl. It will kill dead, no doubt. It's easy to load and shoot, and very accurate. You can use .38 Special rounds for target practice. I have one of these (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=272&category=Revolver), a very sweet gun.

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/65B4.jpg



You have kid in the house so you NEED a trigger lock. No question.


Not sure why you think you need a CCL, have you or anyone you know been mugged? It's a lot of trouble carrying a weapon around in public.

There's a gun shop around here where you can "rent" pistols to test them out. I'd rather get a Rotweiller, but they eat/poop too much, plus I don't trust them.

And the kid thing is a major factor not to get one (for home defense).
...and the CCL thing sounds like a major hassel. I'd get it more for the training than anything.

[Officerpuppy]

How about a Wildey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildey) .475 caliber handgun :rotfl:
Just look what it did to that guy in the movie Death Wish III:up:
http://www.pozitifpc.com/editorblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/254299charles-bronson-posters.jpg

[SUBMAN1]

Depends on what you can afford. My personal preference:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/compactprocarry/

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/compact/06_14_01.jpg

The Pro Carry II is a good gun, but if you can find it, buy an older Pro Carry which is even better. The original Pro Carry doesn't have all the extra crap on it that some lawyer made Kimber add to it to prevent it from firing if it were dropped (It was already an impossibility, and the lawyer just made up the case for gun manufacturers so he could make a buck I think - he had no case where this actually happened).

For defense, you probably don't need 17 rounds - your SKS is a better alternative if you need more, and you are in serious trouble (multiple baddies) if more than 9 rds are needed anyway.

I'm a strong advocate of .45 / 230gr ammo. 9mm should be your minimum caliber (with a minimum of 147 gr bullets, since 115 gr have been shown to not work at all!) but I personally wouldn't buy anything less than a .40. I don't trust 9mm unless I'm gonna spray it such as with an MP5.

Short answer - buy a .45. Makes a dramatically bigger hole (especially with something like hydrashock ammo) resulting in a greater chance that your encounter will be over with quickly and you going on living another day.

-S

PS. Here is a shop selling it:

Kimber Pro Carry II Stainless 45 ACP

$941.00 $799.00 On Sale!
3200052

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/Kimber-Pro-CarryII-SS-med-nam.jpg
Powerful. Dependable. Safe. The best pistols for carry.

The Tacoma, Washington Police Department recently completed a testing program to determine what pistol their officers would carry. The test involved nine brands, 39 models and three calibers of semi-automatic pistols. Kimber won, and officers now have the option of selecting a Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry HD II for duty.

The test results are staggering. Other than Kimber, pistols had a failure rate as high as 22%. Kimber had the lowest failure rate Tacoma PD has recorded in over 20 years of testing for any type of firearm – less than one half of one percent! They also determined that the Kimber was safer than other test pistols when the safety was in the “on” position.

Compact and Pro Carry pistols are similar to Custom models. Their 4-inch bushingless bull barrel makes them easier to conceal and reduces weight. Keeping barrel weight forward also reduces recoil, allowing faster recovery from shot to shot. Each one has dovetail-mounted low profile fixed sights with rounded edges to prevent snagging, and some models have Meprolight Tritium three dot (green) night sights.

The Compact Stainless II features a stainless steel slide and frame. The frame itself is .400 inch shorter than the full length Pro Carry but still holds 7 rounds. Pro Carry models are available with either stainless steel or aluminum frames. Kimber aluminum frames are machined from solid blocks of 7075-T7, the hardest and strongest available. Moreover, these frames are run on the same machines and hold the same tight tolerances as steel frames. Tested to 20,000 rounds with no meaningful wear, the weight savings they offer does not come at a compromise.

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product47.html

PPS. I use 8 rd mags in mine, with another in the chamber for 9.

[Platapus]

for ease of carrying and concealment check out the Khar PM-9. It is one of the smallest and lightest seven round 9mm out there. It is double action only so it is pretty safe to carry. But it has a very smooth trigger pull for a gun that size.

They can be a bit pricey but with handguns you get what you pay for.

[SUBMAN1]

for ease of carrying and concealment check out the Khar PM-9. It is one of the smallest and lightest seven round 9mm out there. It is double action only so it is pretty safe to carry. But it has a very smooth trigger pull for a gun that size.

They can be a bit pricey but with handguns you get what you pay for.There is another one too. Let me find it. Give me a min. i have it here somewhere.

Its not a Kimber though. :p A good used Kimber (maybe picked up for $500) is the best pistol you're gonna find.

-S

[TLAM Strike]

I would recomend a shotgun rather than a pistol unless your a great shot and if someone does break in to your house you don't need to aim perfictly.

But if you a dead set on a pistol I would recomend a revolver over a semi-auto for home defense since as prevously stated are low matenace, don't jam and in the event of misfire are self clearing. You can also get "clips" for revolvers that hold all the rounds together for easyer loading if you are worried about reload time.

[les green01]

for home i still relie on both of my 44 blackpowers for conceal i use the 1911 just remember if you do have to shoot go for a chest shot

[Hylander_1314]

Try this link: http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/saarmy.44-40.asp

They have been very popular with lawmen for over 100 years. Must be a good piece then. I prefer my M-1 Carbine myself though, or the old Mossberg street howitzer.

[silentrunner]

I would say an FN Five-Seven

or as Officerpuppy said... http://www.protozoic.com/content/images/0105/wildey18.jpg

[Platapus]

mmmmm FN five seven <drool>

[Koondawg]

I have a Llama 45...it Will go through walls...

very affordable....

http://ranchomagdalena.com/images/gun/llama45.html

Koon

[geetrue]

Get a revolver not an automatic ... you can always tell when a revolver is loaded, but an automatic has a nasty habit of one in the chamber and you don't know it.

It only takes a few seconds to quick load a revolver, plus never shoot at shadows or you could spend the rest of your life in jail wondering why you did that.

Don't forget the trigger lock with children around.

[SUBMAN1]

Get a revolver not an automatic ... you can always tell when a revolver is loaded, but an automatic has a nasty habit of one in the chamber and you don't know it.

It only takes a few seconds to quick load a revolver, plus never shoot at shadows or you could spend the rest of your life in jail wondering why you did that.

Don't forget the trigger lock with children around.Not a big deal - just treat every gun as though its loaded and you won't have a problem.

Revolvers have a nasty habit of not absorbing recoil. If you have to take a follow up shot (likely if surprised), nothing beats an automatic for the second shot.

-S

[Monica Lewinsky]

Any ideas?

Not a pistol lover here, but I do believe in excellent weapons in protecting the home.

Free rock included with every purchase:
http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/BurglaryCommercial.wmv

My weapon of choice - A1 - here is a friend of mine trying mine out.
http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/100_1408.MOV

I like it because you can take them out at the front door, and then the next day you go to Home Depot and get a new front door.

You need Apple's QuickTime Player for the second one - sorry open it in a new tab Window and it works fine. OR save it locally to your PC [Save Target as] - then look at it.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Dunno much about pistols, but I think it's time to move!

PD

[Stealth Hunter]

I have an old German revolver. Carries 8 bullets, uses .22 ammunition, very accurate, loud, and packs a hell of a punch. It's made by REGENT, and is a BURGO Model 106.

Actual barrel of the gun is 5 inches long, and it's one of my personal favorites since it can be loaded with hollow-point ammunition.

Of course if that doesn't work for you, there's always the Smith & Wesson revolver Model 10 MP used during the 1930s and 1940s by police officers. It, like the BURGO, can fire 6 bullets of the .22 calibre ammunition type and has a barrel just about the same size as the BURGO, although the weight of it is much heavier than the BURGO. It's accurate, it's loud, and it is very powerful, especially at close range (that comes from practice on melons, lol).

I'd prefer the BURGO if I were you, but that's just me. They're both good guns and they're both perfectly legal to own. The BURGO my dad bought when he went overseas in the 1960s for $10 at the time, and he also bought a Springfield 1903 rifle with a scope and bayonet for $25 total. The Smith & Wesson I bought about 10 years ago just for novelty value.

[FIREWALL]

Buy what you can afford and feel comfortable with from a reputable gun dealer.

Get a trigger lock. Even if you live alone.

As for the revolver is safer than an
auto is B.S. It is YOUR weapon.

iF YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A ROUND CHAMBERED AT ALL TIMES....

You have no bussiness owning a firearm. Get a big Ax.

[SUBMAN1]

...iF YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A ROUND CHAMBERED AT ALL TIMES....

You have no bussiness owning a firearm. Get a big Ax.

The short answer is, there is ALWAYS a round chambered, regardless if one is or not!

-S

[geetrue]

This is why you don't keep a bullet in the chamber ... lol

The Major Cause of Gun Accidents — People’s Own Stupidity

Sometimes I cannot believe how utterly stupid people can be when dealing with matters of life and death. I’m probably to the right of Charlton Heston on the right to keep and bear arms, it never ceases to amazes me just how cavalierly some people treat guns.
A front page story in my local newspaper today is all about one such act of idiocy. A woman in Milton Township, Michigan, discovered a Glock .40-caliber pistol in her kitchen — several people lived in the home, including the woman’s daughter and grandchild, and there is no word yet on who owned the gun.
So what would you do if you discovered a Glock just laying around, and, of course, you don’t want children getting a hold of it? Make sure the weapon isn’t loaded and lock it in the trunk of a vehicle? Or maybe make sure the weapon isn’t loaded, remove the magazine and place it on top of a tall appliance like a refrigerator?
No, of course not! You’d do what this woman did — she put it in the oven. That’s right, the oven.
I’m sure you can see what’s coming next. That night, the family decided to cook a pizza and preheated the oven. There was a round in the chamber, and the intense heat caused the weapon to discharge.
Killing a male infant who was sleeping about 25 feet away in the living room.
The paper seems to indicate that all of the adults in the house at the time were aware that the gun had been placed in the oven earlier in the day, though obviously they had forgotten this fact when the oven was being heated. I hope all of them are charged with negligent manslaughter.

http://brian.carnell.com/articles/2002/the-major-cause-of-gun-accidents-peoples-own-stupidity/

[SUBMAN1]

Always keep a round chambered. If you don't, you might as well lock the gun in a safe. The idea is, your typical baddie isn't going to wait for you the chamber one when he wakes you up in the middle of the night! :D :p You probably have one chance if that happens, so you better make it count!

Just my 2 cents.

-S

[FIREWALL]

...iF YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A ROUND CHAMBERED AT ALL TIMES....

You have no bussiness owning a firearm. Get a big Ax.

The short answer is, there is ALWAYS a round chambered, regardless if one is or not!

-S :up: :up: :up:

[nikimcbee]

Thanks for the input! It's interesting to see what you guys came up vs what my friend at work (who has a CCL on is really into personal protection/guns).

Here is what he recommended:


revolver >.357
semi auto= Kimber
shot gun if you are a bad shot:oops: .
Don't get a cheap (low quality) gun.
I never really realized how expensive all this would be:roll: .

[AVGWarhawk]

Thanks for the input! It's interesting to see what you guys came up vs what my friend at work (who has a CCL on is really into personal protection/guns).

Here is what he recommended:

revolver >.357
semi auto= Kimber
shot gun if you are a bad shot:oops: .
Don't get a cheap (low quality) gun.I never really realized how expensive all this would be:roll: .


Hand gun: $700.00
Ammo: $30.00
Your life: Priceless!

[nikimcbee]

Thanks for the input! It's interesting to see what you guys came up vs what my friend at work (who has a CCL on is really into personal protection/guns).

Here is what he recommended:

revolver >.357
semi auto= Kimber
shot gun if you are a bad shot:oops: .
Don't get a cheap (low quality) gun.I never really realized how expensive all this would be:roll: .


Hand gun: $700.00
Ammo: $30.00
Your life: Priceless!

Can't argue with that.

[SUBMAN1]

By the way, i don't agree with the shotgun theories above. Yes, you have to aim a shotgun just as much as a pistol. The only type you don't have to aim as much are scatter guns created by sawing the barrel off. Legal barrel length on a shotgun is 18", and at that length, there is no apprecieable shot spread at close indoor ranges.

Figured I'd mention that since it's always annoying to me that people think a shotgun is more likely to hit in these close ranges. Go to the range, and rent one if need be, and see what kind of spread you get on buckshot at 20 ft. Not much - its tightly grouped.

Two advantaged to the shotgun -

1. Probably going to stop whatever you hit immediately

2. Buckshot 01 probably won't travel far enough to hit your neighbors house. The same cannot be said for buckshot 00.

Major disadvantages with the shotgun -

1. Very unweildy compared to a pistol in such a tight confined space such as your house

2. Follow up shots are not going to be very accurate if fired in close together. (An exception may be made for the FabArms/HK combo that can absorb recoil internally)

Buy a pistol. Much quicker and more useful when you are being woken up from sleep. .45 should do the job, though it might hit your neighbors house so some thought might be put into shot placement if given enough time.

-S

[Stealth Hunter]

Hand gun: $700.00
Ammo: $30.00
Your life: Priceless!

Robber's life: Who Gives a ****?

[FIREWALL]

Go with Koondogs post.

That way when in panic you miss the perp with a couple of rounds and kill your new neighbor you'll think to yourself as your being led off in handcuffs " Hey this is the gun my buddy recommended ".

Go to a reputable Gun Dealer. Their not used car salesman.

Tell them your needs (you live in an apartment/duplex and your price range and that you have minimal expeirence with handguns.

They will not only sell you the right gun but, the right ammo. You live only a wall away from your neighbor.

Some dealers have used or on consignment hand guns.

My local dealer has a range in his basement to try different handguns .

If and when you get a gun,go to a local handgun range and get proficient with your weapon.

They will set the sillouette target to the distance you require.

Good Luck nikimcbee.:up:

[Platapus]

if you do decide to get your CCL, please be careful


http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8451232

4-year-old out of surgery after shooting self at Sam's Club

Adult gun owners have an absolute moral and legal responsibility to prevent children from gaining access to their weapons. This women did not exercise the judgement expected of a citizen authorized to carry a concealed weapon.

There is no such thing as an accident involving children and handguns, only negligence and liability. :nope:

Maintaining positive control of your weapon is mandatory. :yep:

[SUBMAN1]

Last bit of info - The ideal penetration depth for ammo is 12 to 18 inches. Less penetration, and you risk not getting to a vital area such as going through a persons side (unlike hollywood, you will never get a straight on shot). In the case of a crack addict, this will simply tick them off!

Over 18" and too much energy is wasted on the back side of the shot, and not enough energy is transfering to the body as hit. Of course, over penetration is always desirable to under penetration.

What this brings me too (the bloody business of the day as they say) is barrel length. Anything less than a 4" barrel does not generate as much velocity in handguns, and 5" and 6" barrels produce the highest velocities. 4" is ideal as an all around size in my opinion as both a carry arm and a home defense arm, so start looking there.

-S

[silentrunner]

This Five-SeveN has a bruss catcher, and the magazine extension allowing it to fire 30 rounds instead of 20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghbcXa0xD0&hl=en

[Platapus]

A very good point.

With handguns, length IS important :yep:

Don't make the poor investment in a .357 revolver with a 2" barrel. :nope:

Longer barrels allow the cartridge powder to fully expand as well as make it easier to aim. So yes, length makes your shot more powerful and you can put your shot where you want it (no snickering in the back please!!)

Like I posted prior, talk with your instructor, he or she can usually be trusted to give you the collimated feces.

If you are lucky enough to have a responsible dealer, talk to him or her. However, like any salesperson, some may be more interested in the sale than in good advice.

Independent of any advice you get concerning the choice of handguns, the ultimate authority is your hand. Make sure that the gun you are considering fits comfortably in your hand (I said no giggling!)

I have big hands, but I am more comfortable holding a smaller gun (last warning!!). Some of the higher capacity staggered magazine handguns are too wide for my comfort. An appropriately sized gun will also help you attain your natural point of aim (your instructor will explain this), which will help tremendously with your accuracy.

what determines an appropriately sized gun? Only you.

So don't worry about getting the best handgun (there is no best), worry about getting the best handgun for YOU.

[Platapus]

This Five-SeveN has a bruss catcher, and the magazine extension allowing it to fire 30 rounds instead of 20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghbcXa0xD0&hl=en


Man, I want a five seven so bad :damn:

1. I can't really justify the expense to Madam Platapus
2. I don't believe there any reloading dies for the Five seven out yet. Five seven ammo aint cheap

But it is a sweet weapon. My local range had one to rent. Nice weapon! you will need a brass cacher as the Five Seven sure throws the brass high and to the right.

I would liked to have seen the target. He may have kept all the brass, but I don't think he had 30 holes in the target :)

[SUBMAN1]

This Five-SeveN has a bruss catcher, and the magazine extension allowing it to fire 30 rounds instead of 20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghbcXa0xD0&hl=enI hope this isn't your fav gun of all time, and no offense if it is. The FN Fiveseven is a step backwards in handguns in my opinion. It uses a small caliber 5.7 mm round (an expensive round by the way), so it lacks the bullet diameter of a .40 or .45 (and less than 1/3rd likely to hit anything important to stopping your encounter). It also uses a round designed for a longer barrel, so you lose the velocity advantage. It can penetrate initial armor, but lacks any bodily penetration power from a low weight, and low velocity rd that should be travelling much faster from a rifle.

Only thing its got you already describe - 30 rd capacity. You are going to need 30 rds because you will need at least one lucky shot to bring down your attacker! Why not shoot one single .45 rd to do the same job? 1 rd, game over, or 30 rds, game over. You decide.

Just my two cents. It probably works good on the battlefield though where soldiers want to wound, not kill the enemy.

-S

[HunterICX]

OT:

Pistol?
what about something a itsy bitsy bigger then that:smug:
you would really feel safe if you have this baby.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7186/minigun2lw2.jpg

Only disadvantage....when sleeping and wanting to have the gun in hand reach it wont be comfy with this under your pillow :D

now I dont really have knowledge about pistols, the specs and stuff...but as long it fires a bullet it the right direction you cant go wrong I guess ;)

HunterICX

[SUBMAN1]

Don't make my jealous! I always wanted to try one of those! Never have. Can't afford the ammo for it anyway, but then again, I scrape together 3000 rds for a go!

-S

[Platapus]

Using a 10 inch barrel (P-90) for testing, the 5.7mm (.224) round with a 32gr bullet is clocked at 2,350 Fps with 390 Ft/Lbs energy. With the 5" barrel in the Five seven slows down to 2,100 Fps . However, keep in mind that the 5.7 round is designed not to expand but to tumble, which will affect the "stopping" ability.

Using a 5 inch barrel for testing the .45 ACP (11.5mm) with 230 gr bullet is clocked at 900 Fps with 414 Ft/Lbs energy.

I don't think anyone is denying the effectiveness of the .45 round. But at the same time, I don't think it would take 30 5.7 rounds to kill someone.

The biggest problem with the five seven is, in my opinion, over penetration.

I would agree that the FN Five Seven is not the optimum self-defense handgun. One simply can't go wrong with a 9mm (.35), .40, or .45 for home defense. :up:

But from a target shooting stand point, I will still drool for my Five seven.

But for $1,000 there are, frankly better handguns out there. The Five Seven is an exotic gun and if I had the cash, I would love to get one for target competition.

But for home defense? :nope:

[SUBMAN1]

As a target pistol, it might be pretty good. I was looking at it from a home defense POV.

In the home defense viewpoint, it brings back memories of those 3 cops that shot a suspect 32 times with 115 gr 9mm and it still didn't kill the guy. This is with many rds (if pentrating a bit deeper) would have killed him with another caliber. Only a lucky shot to the juggler took him out.

The point being, Hollywood has made us all think that shooting someone kills them. Hardly the case. Only hitting a vital will do that for you. Anything under 9mm I would not trust my life on unless it has something else going for it (5.56mm fragmentation comes to mind here, but I guess we are talking handguns). Even 9mm I have problems with 'trusting' it.

Part of it comes from the weight of the bullet. Even though the .45 hits with appox 414 ft/lbs, energy, it's actual kenetic energy does not deplete very fast because it has 230 gr of weight behind it. Compare that with a 32 gr 5.7 mm? The only way to offset that is extreme velocity and hitting with higher energy than the .45. For example, the 5.56 mm M855/SS109 rd fired form an M-16 hits with 1390 ft/lbs energy (over 1000 ft/lbs more than the 5.7 fired from a longer 10" barrel, and it also has double the weight at 62 gr than a 32 gr 5.7 mm), yet has less penetration (partially due to fragmentation) than a .45.

You know what that makes me think? That makes me think that I wouldn't even trust a P-90 to save my life!

In ending, I think you should do what most target practice shooters do - make yourself a highly specialized .22 LR target pistol. It may initially be more expensive, but the results will be the same (or better), and the ammo is a hell of a lot cheaper! :D

-S

[Stealth Hunter]

Then again, why go for a gun when you could always have a sword?

Better yet, buy a sword AND a gun.

[rifleman13]

Then again, why go for a gun when you could always have a sword?

Better yet, buy a sword AND a gun.

But always keep in mind...

Don't bring a sword to a gunfight!:arrgh!:

Stay safe to all of you out there!:up:

[Stealth Hunter]

But then you're prepared for a swordfight AND a gunfight! It's a win-win situation!

[joea]

...and lasers, can't forget them. :cool:

[Raptor1]

But then you're prepared for a swordfight AND a gunfight! It's a win-win situation!
But what if your foe brings a Tank? You're not prepared for THAT

I suggest buying an 88mm Maschinenpistolepanzerschreck, With a bayonet

[rifleman13]

But then you're prepared for a swordfight AND a gunfight! It's a win-win situation!
But what if your foe brings a Tank? You're not prepared for THAT

I suggest buying an 88mm Maschinenpistolepanzerschreck, With a bayonet

That would be sweet :rock:, and a little awkward.:oops:

==IMAGINING==
FlaK 88 with pistol grip and a 30 round box. With a bayonet, and a very long shoulder strap of course.:roll:

That is the most beautiful firearm anyone could conceive!:arrgh!:

Bolt that 2nd one on my u-boat please!:rotfl::rotfl:

[geetrue]

Then again, why go for a gun when you could always have a sword?

Better yet, buy a sword AND a gun.

Somebody already thought of it ... a pirate no doubt.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/replicaweaponry_2002_20050869 (http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/replicaweaponry_2002_20040978)http://us.st1.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/Img/trans_1x1.gifEnglish Flintlock Pistol Dagger combination

The flintlock pistol was notoriously slow to reload - a severe limitation in close encounters of the dangerous kind! Many solutions to the problem were tried, but one of the more successful was a pistol/dagger combination, whereby a very effective weapon was still to hand after the shots had been fired (or maybe not fired - misfires with flintlocks were common). The original of this pistol was made in London, early in the 18th. century and the skill of the maker is very evident. :

http://www.replicaweaponry.com/enflinpisdag.html

[Doolan]

he or she can usually be trusted to give you the collimated feces.
:o

In other news, nothing, and I repeat nothing will give you more cool points in home defense than a blunderbuss.

If I were a judge, any lunatic having iced an intruder with a 17th century muzzle-load weapon would instantly get a "dude of the year" badge! :|\\

[Raptor1]

he or she can usually be trusted to give you the collimated feces. :o

In other news, nothing, and I repeat nothing will give you more cool points in home defense than a blunderbuss.

If I were a judge, any lunatic having iced an intruder with a 17th century muzzle-load weapon would instantly get a "dude of the year" badge! :|\\

With the risk of being the "Dead of the Year", Possibly with a Darwin award

[SUBMAN1]

In other news, nothing, and I repeat nothing will give you more cool points in home defense than a blunderbuss.

If I were a judge, any lunatic having iced an intruder with a 17th century muzzle-load weapon would instantly get a "dude of the year" badge! :|\\
With the risk of being the "Dead of the Year", Possibly with a Darwin awardSo True! :rotfl:

[Doolan]

Correct, but what about artistic impression? :lol:

[Raptor1]

Correct, but what about artistic impression? :lol:
The blood and brains of a man holding a 17th century gun splattered all over the floor, walls and ceiling?

[Doolan]

That alone would be grade A fark.com material :D

Also, anyone with the slightest interest in history probably has developed an odd form of respect for people willing to use weapons that have two equally dangerous ends.

A guy getting a kill with a F22 raptor is badass. A guy getting the same kill with a Fokker Eindecker is awesome in seven different levels.

A similar analogy would be, it's a remarkable feat to win a race with an Enzo Ferrari, but anyone as much as participating in the 1903 Paris-Madrid race and surviving the simple gesture of starting up the engine is, in my book, a hero of the common man.

[Raptor1]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be awesome for a guy to take out an intruder with a blunderbuss, The chance's of it happening are practically nill

[Doolan]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be awesome for a guy to take out an intruder with a blunderbuss, The chance's of it happening are practically nill

Ahem... :D

Other suggestions in this thread include knives, swords, a minigun and a hypothetical auto-firing 88mm anti-tank SMG. I'm not sure, but I dare venture that none of those were serious either :P

[SUBMAN1]

Problem with black powder as I see it (after thousands of rds through both 50 cal black powder rifles and 45 cal black powder pistols) is the delay. When i want to shoot, I want it to happen now!!! Not a second from now, Now!!!

This is what makes them poor close range weapons.

In along to medium range setting, not a big deal because you are trained on your target and continue to train through the firing sequence.

So, if one of you ever manages to kill let alone hit an intruder in your home with a black powder based weapon, kudo's! Though I pray that not one of you ever has to deal with an intruder in your entire lifetime!

-S

[Doolan]

So, if one of you ever manages to kill let alone hit an intruder in your home with a black powder based weapon, kudo's!

That's why it surprises me that people were so good at killing each other back when only black powder muzzle-loaded weapons existed :D

Man, we've obviously lost a tad of skill at some point... :lol:

[SUBMAN1]

That's why it surprises me that people were so good at killing each other back when only black powder muzzle-loaded weapons existed :D

Man, we've obviously lost a tad of skill at some point... :lol:If you analyze the rifles of the period, you can tell they never relied upon the bullets when it got close and personal! :D

Oh, and trust me, we are much more efficient killers today in modern war! :p

-S

[TLAM Strike]

But then you're prepared for a swordfight AND a gunfight! It's a win-win situation!
But what if your foe brings a Tank? You're not prepared for THAT

I suggest buying an 88mm Maschinenpistolepanzerschreck, With a bayonet

Lob a Moltov in to the air vent! Its a lot cheper. Or shove a pole charge up its tracks. :rock:

If you find your self in need of improvised anti-armor weapons read the US Army Field Manual FM21-75 Appendix G-1.

http://www.deltagearinc.com/Downloads.htm

The Eagle Cocktail and Fireball are my favrotes! :arrgh!:

Good old 21-75 also covers placment and defusing of land mines. Which if you live in a real bad neborhood could be a good investment. Or is that against the Geneva Convention? :D

[Raptor1]

But then you're prepared for a swordfight AND a gunfight! It's a win-win situation!
But what if your foe brings a Tank? You're not prepared for THAT

I suggest buying an 88mm Maschinenpistolepanzerschreck, With a bayonet
Lob a Moltov in to the air vent! Its a lot cheper. Or shove a pole charge up its tracks. :rock:

If you find your self in need of improvised anti-armor weapons read the US Army Field Manual FM21-75 Appendix G-1.

http://www.deltagearinc.com/Downloads.htm

The Eagle Cocktail and Fireball are my favrotes! :arrgh!:

Good old 21-75 also covers placment and defusing of land mines. Which if you live in a real bad neborhood could be a good investment. Or is that against the Geneva Convention? :D

While improvized anti-armor weapons are nice, It still means you have to carry around more objects, While my 88mm Anti-Tank Submachine gun with a Bayonet can take care of anything (Except Aircraft, But you can always attach the special Radar-Guided AA kit)

[Stealth Hunter]

Well I actually was being serious with the sword and gun combo part. In all honesty, you're good to go on all levels. If he's got a gun, shoot him. If he's got a knife or baseball bat, skewer him THEN shoot him.

[Raptor1]

Well I actually was being serious with the sword and gun combo part. In all honesty, you're good to go on all levels. If he's got a gun, shoot him. If he's got a knife or baseball bat, skewer him THEN shoot him.

Aren't you better off shooting him before he even gets close with that knife or baseball bat?

[Stealth Hunter]

Well... do you want to lose a perfectly good bullet when you could simply crack his skull in with a saber? Bullets cost money... but if he's not as cheap as I am, then he wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Raptor1]

Well... do you want to lose a perfectly good bullet when you could simply crack his skull in with a saber? Bullets cost money... but if he's not as cheap as I am, then he wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'd much rather lose a bullet then get close to a lunatic with a knife or a baseball bat...

[SUBMAN1]

I'd much rather lose a bullet then get close to a lunatic with a knife or a baseball bat...Baseball bat usually works! Though I'd prefer to lose a bullet too. Safer.

-S