Hospital ships: Have you ever been tempted...

[Murr44]

I know that you're penalized BIG TIME for sinking them but have you ever had such a rotten patrol that you're tempted to take out your frustrations on the first hospital ship that dares to cross your path?
On my last patrol with U-69 I came across 2 convoys but managed to get myself noticed by the escorts both times!:damn: :damn: After being depth charged for what seemed like forever I escaped with some minor & easily repairable damage. Cruised around AM 51-52 for a few days but only managed to sink a 1215 ton coastal tanker. While I was cursing my sh*tty luck one overcast & very gloomy night; what do I see in the distance but a Red Cross Hospital ship all lit up so prettily, like a Christmas tree. I very briefly considered attacking but let her pass unmolested. They never knew how close they came to becoming just another heap of scrap metal, rusting on the ocean floor. Let this be a warning to all masters of Red Cross ships: steer well clear of my boat because you never know when I'll be in a very bad mood...:D

[Red Heat]

Sinking a hospital ship can give to the enemy a very hight strike in this moral...but all so to the U-Boat Commander will be regret of this action...specialy in his renow and all so can say good bye to the XXI type! :know:

[Brag]

Sinking a hospital ship does not fix grumpiness.:roll:

[Red Heat]

Sinking a hospital ship does not fix grumpiness.:roll:

True, mate... :up:

[msalama]

Sinking a hospital ship does not fix grumpiness.:roll:

True. A good weekend, however, does. :up:

[STEED]

Who gives a toss. Sink the swine I say. :arrgh!:

[Bismarck]

Surfaced and fired 30 shells at a hospital ship just to annoy 'em.

[Ivan Putski]

I just saw one on this patrol, in fact, it was the only ship I have seen. Frustrating at times, but she got safe passage from me. Puts

[VonDos]

@Bismarck:

Don't shoot on red cross :nope:

Torpedos her!! :arrgh!:

[Yorktown_Class]

Never:nope:

[HunterICX]

Who gives a toss. Sink the swine I say. :arrgh!:

what a waste of beautifull nurses...:nope:

HunterICX

[TarJak]

Sinking hospital ships is bad juju. Personally I never do it.:nope:

[rifleman13]

Who gives a toss. Sink the swine I say. :arrgh!:

what a waste of beautifull nurses...:nope:

HunterICX

Rather go to the Eastern Front than sink a Hospital Ship!:shifty:
Well, maybe not there but desk job might be good!:rotfl:

[Venatore]

No, never, as a soldier/pilot/sailor you should always have a place in your heart for compassion, if you want to see what I'm talking about read this;

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137443

[UnderseaLcpl]

They may not be real wounded soldiers in there but I don't have the heart to even entertain the thought.
See somebody wounded on the battlefield (friend or foe) and then ask yourself if you could sink his vessel. It may be harder than you think.

[The_Yugster]

Ive just started my first patrol in GWX 2.1, after a week at see the only ships ive seen have been a group of 3 destroyers and a hospital ship.
I just dived to 30 meeters and let her sail by, its August 1940 btw.

[STEED]

Next time you come across a destroyer that sinks you, there could be sailors on that ship who will laugh at you when you go down saying you should had sunk that hospital ship I was on a few months back. For they could be the sailors that got you bang to rights. :p

[Red Heat]

The war all aways show the best or the worsth of the human soul... :know:

[Bismarck]

True Very True...

@VonDos

I only shoot the command deck and the masts. I doubt a wounded soldier would be steering the boat.

[popcorn2721]

yes, I have been tempted a few times. They are like the "carp" of the sea...nice and big, but nothing you wanna take home and cook.

[Tombow]

Actually, at least one real submariner did it big style. Does the name Alexander Marinesko ring a bell?


Call it nemesis or just bad luck, after the sinkings of the Gustloff and the Steuben he fell in absolute disfavour with the command for reasons totally unrelated to the sinkings and his carreer as well as his whole life took a nosedive he was never able to recover.

[STEED]

So should I let this one slip by? No sir, I do not. :yep:

That is no Red Cross Flag. :smug: :know:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/HS.jpg

[Tombow]

Tempting your nemesis = BAD IDEA! And a similar accident to remember - just google a bit about how Franz von Hipper was nicknamed after the Scarborough raid.

[popcorn2721]

So should I let this one slip by? No sir, I do not. :yep:

That is no Red Cross Flag. :smug: :know:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/HS.jpg

anyone noticed that the red crosses lie just in the right spots for critical hits..they are almost begging for a torp.

[artcore01]

I say let them meet with Davy Jones :arrgh!: What if one day those sailors drops the depth charge that sinks your boat, I say you'll be doing the fatherland a great deed by giving the enemy such a vicious blow, of course you'll be saving many of your own mens lives by sinking these men plus you'll take their hospitals out of the equation of war ;) but then again if you would like to keep your soul then maybe don't sink them

[bookworm_020]

I must admit, I have thought about it! As one American skipper said about letting a hospital ship go, "I let it go despite knowing that it had 2000 to 3000 troops with mild cases of foot fungus aboard!"

[Murr44]

So should I let this one slip by? No sir, I do not. :yep:

That is no Red Cross Flag. :smug: :know:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/HS.jpg

anyone noticed that the red crosses lie just in the right spots for critical hits..they are almost begging for a torp.

They almost look like bull's eye's (sp?).

[FIREWALL]

Every chance I get.:p

Tonnage, Tonnage, Tonnage.:yep:

I even practice my AA on liferafts. :arrgh!:

[coronas]

No, never. We are Kriegsmarine's Kaleuns, men of honour. War rules must be respected. Reward for sinking an Hospital Ship must be bound for a punishment batallion in East Front.

[FIREWALL]

No, never. We are Kriegsmarine's Kaleuns, men of honour. War rules must be respected. Reward for sinking an Hospital Ship must be bound for a punishment batallion in East Front.


http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll316/NO1TOPGUN/pointingqq8.gif

[Frank0001]

Agreed with the majority. Sinking (or even shooting at) hospital ships is immoral. (not to mention how 'moralistic' the war itself is...)
For those saying it diminishes enemy morale:

It doesn't help at all. The only thing you'll end up with, is an angry enemie, who is willing to fight even harder at 'those hartless swines of the Kriegsmarine'.
Hospital ships aren't military targets, or have military value. Sinking one would be nothing more than an act of inhumanity, I doubt even Hitler would be proud of such things.

[FIREWALL]

Sh-3 was not sold as a Morals Instructor.

It was sold as a GAME.

No rights, no wrongs Just a game.

[Tombow]

Another sidenote:

In the Battle of Tsu-Shima the position of the russian fleet was given away by an "auxillary cruiser" (apparently a hospital ship) trailing the main fleet and travelling in the dusk with lights on. Admiral Togo's forces didn't bother with engaging it, instead they just appreciated the information and set a course for crossing the russian main fleet's T. Engaging that poor "auxillary cruiser" wouldn't have helped them at all.

[Stealth Hunter]

Who gives a toss. Sink the swine I say. :arrgh!:

Second.

what a waste of beautifull nurses...

Second.


yes, I have been tempted a few times. They are like the "carp" of the sea...nice and big, but nothing you wanna take home and cook.


.......................................second....

[Stealth Hunter]

I've sunk many hospital ships in my career... but that's only because I wanted to.

Renown is so high that it barely affected my career status.

Here's a few screenshots of the first hospital ship I ever sent to the deep:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/Sgt-Smithy/Silent%20Hunter%20III/sh32007-10-2617-59-06-95.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/Sgt-Smithy/Silent%20Hunter%20III/sh32007-10-2617-59-19-60.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/Sgt-Smithy/Silent%20Hunter%20III/sh32007-10-2617-59-30-03.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/Sgt-Smithy/Silent%20Hunter%20III/sh32007-10-2617-59-37-04.jpg

Ship sank in 13 minutes. Surprisingly for a hospital ship, she went down nice and clean (I usually hit a medical supplies area that causes a huge explosion or totally destroys the vessel in seconds.

[Bismarck]

Poor Fraulein Jessica Smith, she had a huge pair of knockers. :cry:
But they could be carrying war supplies...

[rifleman13]

Ship sank in 13 minutes. Surprisingly for a hospital ship, she went down nice and clean (I usually hit a medical supplies area that causes a huge explosion or totally destroys the vessel in seconds.

Explosive medical supplies?:hmm:

[Stealth Hunter]

Well, yes. It's actually very accurate.

Some of the things used in medicine are actually very dangerous when stored in high quantities (such as alcohol, compressed air tanks, etc.). If you have a torpedo slam into the storage room for these things, it's not going to be good. That compressed air is not only going to make a hell of a racket, but it's also going to send fragments flying about, and the pure oxygen in it is going to ignite very quickly. Alcohol... well... it pretty much just burns things to a cinder.

[Hendrik von Trapp]

I found a hospital ship and fixed my crosshairs on her. I can't convince myself to sink her. So, I just parked 900m alongside her and watched her sail by. She didn't bother directing her spotlights on me.

[Rammstein0991]

I agree, avoid shooting them at all costs, look at it this way. IF you sink a hospital ship you'd best hope they sink you before the war ends, otherwise your Kaleun will be getting a first class ticket to a charming little place called Nuremburg >.>

[Aktungbby]

Hospital ships were covered under the Hague Convention X of 1907 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_(1899_and_1907)#Hague_Convention _of_1907). Article four of the Hague Convention X outlined the restrictions for a hospital ship:


Ship must be clearly marked and lighted as a hospital ship
The ship should give medical assistance to wounded personnel of all nationalities
The ship must not be used for any military purpose
The ship must not interfere with or hamper enemy combatant vessels
Belligerents, as designated by the Hague Convention, can search any hospital ship to investigate violations of the above restrictions
Belligerents will establish the location of a hospital ship

According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_Manual_on_International_Law_Applicable_to _Armed_Conflicts_at_Sea), a hospital ship violating legal restrictions must be duly warned and given a reasonable time limit to comply. If a hospital ship persists in violating restrictions, a belligerent is legally entitled to capture it or take other means to enforce compliance. A non-complying hospital ship may only be fired on under the following conditions:


Diversion or capture is not feasible
No other method to exercise control is available
The violations are grave enough to allow the ship to be classified as a military objective
The damage and casualties will not be disproportionate to the military advantage.

In all other circumstances, attacking a hospital ship is a war crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime).
Modern hospital ships display large Red Crosses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblems_of_the_International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Cre scent_Movement#Red_Cross) or Red Crescents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblems_of_the_International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Cre scent_Movement#Red_Crescent) to signify their Geneva convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_convention) protection under the laws of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war). Even so, marked vessels have not been completely free from attack. Notable examples of hospital ships deliberately attacked during wartime are HMHS Llandovery Castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMHS_Llandovery_Castle) in 1915, the Armenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia_(Soviet_hospital_ship)) in 1941 and AHS Centaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Centaur) in 1943. 23 hospital ships were sunk in WWII: complete lists with photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_II) And oddly enough...23 hospital ships were also sunk in WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_I) So much for the rules of war!:nope: In both wars war crimes trial were held and the Japanese commander who sank the Australian hospital ship Centaur received 8 years. Mitigating consideration was given to whether the ship was properly marked and that Japanese hospital ships had been similarly attacked.:salute: BOTTOM LINE: based on real life: SINK "EM ALL!

[Rammstein0991]

Hospital ships were covered under the Hague Convention X of 1907 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_(1899_and_1907)#Hague_Convention _of_1907). Article four of the Hague Convention X outlined the restrictions for a hospital ship:


Ship must be clearly marked and lighted as a hospital ship
The ship should give medical assistance to wounded personnel of all nationalities
The ship must not be used for any military purpose
The ship must not interfere with or hamper enemy combatant vessels
Belligerents, as designated by the Hague Convention, can search any hospital ship to investigate violations of the above restrictions
Belligerents will establish the location of a hospital ship

According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_Manual_on_International_Law_Applicable_to _Armed_Conflicts_at_Sea), a hospital ship violating legal restrictions must be duly warned and given a reasonable time limit to comply. If a hospital ship persists in violating restrictions, a belligerent is legally entitled to capture it or take other means to enforce compliance. A non-complying hospital ship may only be fired on under the following conditions:


Diversion or capture is not feasible
No other method to exercise control is available
The violations are grave enough to allow the ship to be classified as a military objective
The damage and casualties will not be disproportionate to the military advantage.

In all other circumstances, attacking a hospital ship is a war crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime).
Modern hospital ships display large Red Crosses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblems_of_the_International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Cre scent_Movement#Red_Cross) or Red Crescents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblems_of_the_International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Cre scent_Movement#Red_Crescent) to signify their Geneva convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_convention) protection under the laws of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war). Even so, marked vessels have not been completely free from attack. Notable examples of hospital ships deliberately attacked during wartime are HMHS Llandovery Castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMHS_Llandovery_Castle) in 1915, the Armenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia_(Soviet_hospital_ship)) in 1941 and AHS Centaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Centaur) in 1943. 23 hospital ships were sunk in WWII: complete lists with photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_II) And oddly enough...23 hospital ships were also sunk in WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hospital_ships_sunk_in_World_War_I) So much for the rules of war!:nope: In both wars war crimes trial were held and the Japanese commander who sank the Australian hospital ship Centaur received 8 years. Mitigating consideration was given to whether the ship was properly marked and that Japanese hospital ships had been similarly attacked.:salute: BOTTOM LINE: based on real life: SINK "EM ALL!

Yep, like I said, sink a Hospital and enjoy that trip to Nuremburg :haha:

[Gargamel]

Kudos for the necro! I had to read the thread to see if I had ever sunk one! I don't remember!

[Jimbuna]

I found a hospital ship and fixed my crosshairs on her. I can't convince myself to sink her. So, I just parked 900m alongside her and watched her sail by. She didn't bother directing her spotlights on me.

IRL you'd have been in irons for more than the six years this thread has been dormant had you been found guilty of committing the act.

How about a compromise?

Off to the eastern front :03:

[Rammstein0991]

IRL you'd have been in irons for more than the six years this thread has been dormant had you been found guilty of committing the act.

How about a compromise?

Off to the eastern front :03:

Depending on the loss of life I figure hanging would also be a consideration wouldn't it?

[Jimbuna]

Depending on the loss of life I figure hanging would also be a consideration wouldn't it?

Oh yes, most definitely worthy of being classified as a war crime.

[Sailor Steve]

Which is the bigger crime: Sinking a hospital ship or responding to a six-year-old thread?

[Rammstein0991]

Just means its a good'un :haha:

[Redbear]

I'd never consider it. Remember that it is just as likely that the ship carries our fellow countrymen and/or allies as our enemies. Not to mention it is just plain wrong (did anyone say war criminal?)

[Rammstein0991]

I may have mentioned an all expenses paid "vacation" to Nuremburg...:haha:

[Otto Fuhrmann]

I will admit that I sank one out of pure frustration once. It was a convoy attack gone bad, then to worse. It turned out to be a primarily neutral convoy, with Vichy French, Portuguese and Swedish ships, with a French escort and one British hospital ship.
It was so dark all I could see was darkened ships and one brightly lit British hospital ship, and with the escort, I assumed it was a British convoy.
I had to get closer and closer to make anything out, until I saw so close that I saw they were all flying neutral colours. I was then angry for having wasted my time and fuel on the pointless hunt. Without realising I stupidly got to close and had a near miss with a French Merchant that slight damaged my hull and at this point I was throwing my keyboard and mouse around cursing the French! :88)
So I sank the Hospital ship in a rage, only to feel terrible and I had to reload with the loss of half my patrol.....
Not my brightest moment.. :oops:

[BigWalleye]

Mush Morton may have been denied the CMH because of his attack on Japanese sailors (and BE prisoners, who he didn't know were there) in the water after a sinking. There was evidence that the lifeboats fired small arms first and an inquiry exonerated Morton, but the incident affected the reputation of a brave and resourceful leader.

It is doubtful that a government run by the NSDAP would react as sharply, and if your persona is a committed Nazi, you have to make your own choices. But a number of U-boat skippers were actually cautioned for endangering their boats to rescue survivors. So an historical case can be made for showing humanity, let alone avoiding atrocity, even in the middle of war.

[Riccardo1975]

Had two pass me in 1941 heading West just NW of Londonderry then a single contact yesterday between Halifax and Boston, 3rd of May 1942.

Thought about sinking it for the 12000 tonnes, after being hammered by Hurribombers all patrol, then felt guilty all the way to Halifax.

Bet you get a right telling off from BdU for putting one of those under the waves.... :down:

Any other ships off limits that anyone's seen in GWX?

Rich

[Nobon]

Just exactly the place Riccardo saw two, NW of Londonderry, I spot two lonely hospital ships travelling together. 1940 juny...

Saw them from a good 15k plus distance first, so I ID-d them as some kind of troops ships. Calculated an engage route, and went way before them. Set the trap with a diagonal approach, and waited for them... Because of the angle, I doesnt saw the red cross at all. Id-d them 100% positive as "Large cargo/troop ship" or what that type is, calculated their speed two times,
(painstaking method, via no contact update / geometry on the map, timing, nomograph...) and set up four torpedo.

1500 meter distance, a few minutes til' zero degree.

Only -Then- I saw the red cross...

I was a tad angry ^^ spent two hours of precious gameplay, to perfectly set up the attack...

Well, just for a tryout, I shot the four torpedoes.

Two for each, one magnetic, one impact, with corresponding depths. (still set up for the Troop ship, but the only difference is the red cross, so..)

Well, I missed the second craft, shot before its bow like 20 meters... O_o (still trying to calculate what I did wrong) but as for the first ship, it was a perfect hit. Magnetic hit first, then on almost the same spot, the impact.

SHe's going down. After the "going down" the ship was still afloat for more than ten minutes... Sank very slowly AFTER its death XD

Well, this only happened in "theory", as I doesnt saved this. Im going to leave them alone of course, for the sake of any RPG vein left in me, and for the sake of humanity. But I needed the experiment, that how a large troops ship tolerates a well placed combo.


Edit:
Actually, I realised one thing: The red crosses are only visible from an angle, very close to 90°...
And damn I never see them fly a white flag.





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