How the HELL do you torpedo a fast moving ship??

[ddiplock]

As the title says. I've tried 3 times by reloading to unsuccessfully torpedo a lone British Dido crusier outside Gibralter. he's clipping along at quite a speed, and my 3 minute calculation with the nomograph gave me 2.6km in 3 minutes. Now, because teh nomograph is quite small, unlike the one in SH4 its quite trickly to actually read the speed properly....so.....in the end i ended up estimating his speed to be some 30 knots.

Fired off the torps after calculating the range, AOB, bearing etc and the torps sailed behind him. The manual says a dido can do a max speed of 32 knots, so, i releaded and thought "bugger it, i'll stick 32 in".

Same result, the torpedos went behind teh ship.

So.....how the heck do you torpedo a target moving that fast?? If i can't even torpedo a cruiser clipping along at this speed, i've got no chance if i encounter a carrier or a battleship!!!!!! :damn: :damn: :damn:

[geosub1978]

If you have the perpendicular coarse and the target is making 30 knots then fire at 33 degrees for high speed torpedoes or 45 degrees for low speed torpedoes.

If you hane the perpendicular coarse and the target is making 32 knots then fire at 35 degrees for high speed torpedoes or 47 degrees for low speed torpedoes.

So I suggest the perpendicular coarse and 3 torpedoes of 1 degree spread for a 1500yds shot!

This has to work!

[ddiplock]

If you have the perpendicular coarse and the target is making 30 knots then fire at 33 degrees for high speed torpedoes or 45 degrees for low speed torpedoes.

If you hane the perpendicular coarse and the target is making 32 knots then fire at 35 degrees for high speed torpedoes or 47 degrees for low speed torpedoes.

So I suggest the perpendicular coarse and 3 torpedoes of 1 degree spread for a 1500yds shot!

This has to work!

well, where i have the game saved just now, its probably too late for me to set that up. :(:(

[ddiplock]

The only other thing i might try, is plotting the guys course, choosing a point on the map to calculate the AOB from that point on, and then fire the torps when he reaches that point.

It might be the AOB thats ending up off, as a fast moving target the AOB detereorates very quickly in the few seconds it takes to calculate it, and then input that value into the TDC.

[Platapus]

my 3 minute calculation with the nomograph gave me 2.6km in 3 minutes.

Are you using imperial measurements for your set up? If using the native metric system aint you supposed to be using 3:15?

I have never used the nomograph before. I personally find the nomographs to be awkward to use.

[gord96]

turn on WO assist and turn off manual targeting and wait for the arrow to turn green. hehe. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[ddiplock]

my 3 minute calculation with the nomograph gave me 2.6km in 3 minutes.

Are you using imperial measurements for your set up? If using the native metric system aint you supposed to be using 3:15?

I have never used the nomograph before. I personally find the nomographs to be awkward to use.


hmm, good point. maybe i should have calculated it in 3 minute 15 seconds instead.

i'll need to give that a go. that would probably put the distance from the originally measured 2.6km to 3km then i'd say.

[Teh_Diplomat]

The best bet is to learn how to take down a myriad of ships at varying speeds. To learn this I first turned OFF automatic targeting, but left the officer assistance on. Then I can compare those shots for a better success rate, eventually you'll only need his assistance for these types of shots - the rare and fast moving ships to which you can't hope to catch up to - and then see how far off your calculations are.

Secondly, remember that Electric torps have a max range of 3km and travel @ 30 knots. Steam propelled eels have a maximum range of 5km at the highest speed of 45 kts.

[ddiplock]

Nah, the extra 15 seconds didn't make a difference. lol.

i've been trying for the last hour and a half to sink this bugger, reloading time again and again and again. using varying speeds for the target. Nothing works, the torpedos seem to go behind teh crusier.

the only thing i can concieve is a wild guess that maybe the crusier speed is totally wacked and he's racing along at like 40 knots. lol

I dunno, i guess i'm just going to have to give up. In which case, battleships and carriers usually fly along at that speed so.....guess i wont sink one of those any time soon. :(

[ddiplock]

I decided to break with tradition this time, and reverted to using the notepad instead. The notepad at least seemed to corrolate with my own speed calculations and reported the crusier was clipping along at 30 knots. using the protacter on the map, I calculated the AOB and then put it into the notepad.

Let loose the torpedos and they STILL went behind the ship. I just dont whats wrong. Range is fine, bearing is fine, AOB is fine, speed calc is fine....the torpedos just keep going behind the cruiser. :(

granted, i'm using electric torpedos as they don't leave a wake. i prefer stealth as if you're attacking a convoy and you miss, they dont see the wakes and scatter.

oh....and i AM opening the tube doors before firing too ;)

[Subtype Zero]

Are you moving or still when you launch your eels? Speed of your sub could affect your solution. I figured this out when all 4 of my shots on a convoy missed just in front of each ship. I then realized I was moving backwards at 2 knots instead of forward. :damn:

[ddiplock]

Are you moving or still when you launch your eels? Speed of your sub could affect your solution. I figured this out when all 4 of my shots on a convoy missed just in front of each ship. I then realized I was moving backwards at 2 knots instead of forward. :damn:

i've been moving slowly forward at 2 knots, but i've tried firing even when stationary and it doesn't make a difference.

arghhh its so frustrating because i can't find a simple reason for the torpedos not hitting. all the calculations are right so, by rights, the bastards should HIT!!!!! :damn: :damn:

[Hartmann]

Well, sometimes firing solutions are not an exact science, and like in real life , a lot of torpedoes missed their targets by some factors.

Think that 15 seconds seems to be a very short time but if the target is moving at 25 or more knts perhaps it could make acumulative errors and miss the shot.
with high speed you need to be very accurate with AOB, Range,and SPEED, and plot in the map the correct lines.

in my last patrol i sunk a destroyer circling at 25 or more knts estimating the speed and moving the bearing dial in the tdc map, it take three torpedoes with one impact
(sunk)

in prepared attacks i always use the rule of the 3:15 seconds,

first i mark one point, start to count 3:15 and mark again a point,
plot a line, the target route, it gives you the target speed
introduce the speed data in the tdc,
and finally using the notepad and stadimeter for distance and AOB.

[Platapus]

Range is fine, bearing is fine, AOB is fine, speed calc is fine....the torpedos just keep going behind the cruiser. :(

oh....and i AM opening the tube doors before firing too ;)

It is good that you are opening your tube doors, always good to eliminate that as a factor.

You posted that you are using Electric Torpedoes. Were you previously using steamers in the tubes. There is still a torpedo speed setting bug that may affect your torpedoes if you shoot steamers and then load electrics. There have been some excellent threads on that bug and the workarounds. (hey at this point I am grasping at straws for trying to explain why you are shooting behind your target.

If your torps are consistently going behind the target then I respectfully disagree that "Range is fine, bearing is fine, AOB is fine, speed calc is fine" Something must be off. I doubt that you are having that many malfunctions.

Are you using the OLC GUI to calculate the AoB a bit more precisely?

Range is always a killer as it can affect the other calculations. Is your target traveling light meaning that the normal waterline is higher than the actual level of the water. This can affect your Stadimeter readings.

Have you tried calculating the speed of the target using the

Speed (kts) = 1.94 x Length of target (meters) / Time (seconds) formula?

Where time is the time it takes the target to pass through the stationary cross hairs of your periscope?

Maybe this can get you a more accurate speed?

In any case with respect to Range, Bearing, AoB, Speed; one or or more of these has to be wrong. :damn:

In any case, if you had any nuts you would eschew the torpedoes, battle surface and take the sucker with your deck guns a blazin!!! :arrgh!:

[predavolk]

I agree. The torp settings are screwing something up. There's no reason why you should miss. It's simple geometry. Are you maybe mixing starbord-port AoB? If nothing else works, why not take note of how far behind you're missing, and then just aim that far in advance of the cruiser?

[joegrundman]

how are you so sure taht your range and AOB solution is exact?

You say that it is too late for you to set up a perpendicular attack course, which suggests that you may be doing curved fire.

Curved fire is much more dependent on an accurate range solution than is straight fire.

And anyway, fast targets are harder.

[ddiplock]

I guess one thing I could try, is to fire "ahead" of the target to try and compensate for any innacuracies. I understand that the solution needs to be very accurate for fast moving targets.

I never have problems hitting ships going at 10 knots or so. I'll reload and try firing ahead of the crusier, see if i can strike gold.

[Mittelwaechter]

May I suggest to do a second speed calculation a little later - just to test it out.
Maybe the target is crossing a waypoint and speeds up to 32 knots?

[ddiplock]

Well, i've had some mixed results. After several reloads, and after inputting a solution, then firing ahead of the target, i'm having SOME luck in getting them to hit. All be it however by the time the torpedos DO hit, the crusier is pretty far away from me. Wonder if thats what happend with real uboats.

Essentially, the TDC appears to be firing them with the data i put in, so that, aproxx 2 minutes after firing the torpedos can hit. But by that time the target is really far away after passing my boat. Is that realistic in anyway?


What i'll do is, i'll reload again, and take some screenies later, so you guys can see the overall picture, where my torpedos etc are going when they've been fired.

[JHuschke]

If it is a single destroyer, with no allies to support it..I would try to gain some attention for him to come "straight" to you at 0 degrees. Await the enemy until he reaches near 700m and fire the torpedo..keep your music on! :smug: Then there should be torpedo impact and it sinks immediately!

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Well, i've had some mixed results. After several reloads, and after inputting a solution, then firing ahead of the target, i'm having SOME luck in getting them to hit. All be it however by the time the torpedos DO hit, the crusier is pretty far away from me. Wonder if thats what happend with real uboats.

Essentially, the TDC appears to be firing them with the data i put in, so that, aproxx 2 minutes after firing the torpedos can hit. But by that time the target is really far away after passing my boat. Is that realistic in anyway?


What i'll do is, i'll reload again, and take some screenies later, so you guys can see the overall picture, where my torpedos etc are going when they've been fired.

Well, sounds to me like you've left it way too late to be setting up a firing solution. Your torps should be travelling towards your target while your target is approaching you, intersecting when the target is crossing your bow at it's closest point (ideally) at 90 degrees AOB. If your torps are taking 2 minutes to hit the target, then I'd consider that the target is too far away at those speeds, and considering the rapidly changing AOB, it would be impossible to get an accurate trajectory. How far away from your target are you, and at what point is it heading away from you? Can you give us a diagram?

[Nicolas]

What you use to find AOB?
My little opinion is that torpedoes missing back of the ship, its because the data you enter is old. That ship if i remember right, its not big, and if it go at 30 knots, the data you enter degrades in very few seconds. Before firing recheck visually if the aob 'sounds good'. The speed need to be accurate of course, and a last final quick range reading its good to do before you fire. If the data is good, but have past a few seconds aim at the front part of the ship, the more fast they travel most forward. And i always observe the Gyroangle. Steam torpedoes are good for accuracy, i prefer steam torps. Large ships never saw them on time to get enough speed to avoid. I hope this can help you.

[Elmer Kosterman]

I(f) your target (is) traveling light ... the normal waterline is higher than the actual level of the water.
Are empty ships really modelled in this game?

[ddiplock]

I think i've figured out what the problem has been all along with this crusier problem :)

there's a few more things i'd like to do to confirm this, but, i think i might have got it cracked, and can target fast moving ships now like any other.

I'll keep you guys filled in on the results and let you know. But....it looks promising that i've found out the problem :rock:

[ddiplock]

I FINALY managed to nail that Dido crusier, sending them to the depths just outside Gibralter. Fired a salvo and had two out of the four torpedos fired hit, so, that wasn't too bad. A salvo I think is the way to go though when firing at a fast moving target.

The problem in the end: I had been looking at the WRONG dial when inputting my bearing, yes....the WRONG dial. The scary thing is...its the same dial i've been looking at in the past when firing my torpedos and ships and they all hit before :S So i dont know how i've managed that.

I think I need to go back and do some torpedo training though to aclimatise to using the right dial. I came across a medium merchant and fired a stern shot, torpedo sailed just ahead of the target, just missing, so i can only assume my AOB might have been slightly off. Some training is needed though.

Got back to base with only 3 crewman dead, so, not too bad considering they were the first men i lost under my command. ;)

[Jimbuna]

The margin of error is really very low with fast moving ships and not as punishing as the merchants chugging along speed.

It was a few weeks after finding myself semi proficient at manual tergatting before I felt comfortable/confident with warship firing solutions.

Back to training academy with you....Germany expects perfection Kaleun http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Platapus]

Glad you found out the problem.

Don't worry, we have all made similar mistakes.

I had this perfect setup on a nice large cargo traveling alone. Everything calculated nicely. Steady course and speed. Plenty of time to set up a nice 90 AoB from the starboard.

Nothing could go wrong.

Unless, of course you confuse starboard and port when you are setting the dials :damn: :oops:

[ddiplock]

Glad you found out the problem.

Don't worry, we have all made similar mistakes.

I had this perfect setup on a nice large cargo traveling alone. Everything calculated nicely. Steady course and speed. Plenty of time to set up a nice 90 AoB from the starboard.

Nothing could go wrong.

Unless, of course you confuse starboard and port when you are setting the dials :damn: :oops:

thing is though, i'd been looking at the wrong dial since learning how to shoot manually, and still hitting targets. now, having to aclimatise to the new dial i need to be extra careful in making my torpedo solutions to ensure hits. I just had to abandon an attack on convoy after i stupidly went in doing 4 knots and was detected....no suprise there. lol

Well, hopefully things should look better, and if i do come across a fast travelling task force, I might have a good chance of sinking a big warship now I am using the RIGHT dial. lol :)