8km vs. 16km

[VIICDriver]

OK have started playing using 16km in GWX 2.1. Hardly no frame rate impact at all.

My question is this...using 16km I cannot duck anything! LOL

I mean a destroyer, trawler, whatever appears and they are already beeling for me by the time I see them (or hear them if submerged). As well as I remember using 8km I did not have this issue of them seeing me before I see them.

So basically is 16km harder than 8km? It appears so thus far on my end but only have a couple of patrols in with it so far so I may be wrong.

Thanks in advance!

Chuck

[wizardmatt]

hiya.
to tell the truth i dont know much about the 8km environment. as soon as i installed the game - pretty much - i'd found subsim and gwx: the only time ive used an 8km, and the vanilla game generally, environment was the training missions!
from what ive noticed in my current campaign, my watch officer and crew are more than capable of spotting ships before they spot me. therefore, if youre having problems, could it be time compression? my TC values for "ship spotted" and "plane spotted" are set to "1". if yours are set higher, then it could be that you missed a "spotted" message from your crew and, with the higher TC, have rapidly sailed close enough to the enemy for them to see you and take appropriate action.
i dont know for sure, but i swear ive read somewhere that your (crews or you personally) vision is generally better than the enemys; like i said, i dont know for sure.
i could be wrong. the gwx2.1 manual has loads of advice for maintaining stealth
good luck! :up:

[Sailor Steve]

I've used 16km ever since the first version almost three years ago. GWX does make it harder, as enemy spotters are better, but as VIICDriver said, so are your own. The only time I've had trouble with them is in some of the single missions, when you start close enough for them to see you instantly. On a clear day they can spot you out to as much as 10 km, so you have to plan carefully.

[predavolk]

I too recently switched to 16K, and I haven't noticed a major increase in enemy pick-up distances. Other than having merchants firing on me at 5km!

I don't buy the whole TC reason either. I constantly use TC (I have no idea how you can have a life outside of SH3 without it!:o ), and between ship spotted and returning to 1x is about 1 second game time. You don't travel very far. It MIGHT make a difference in giving you an extra couple of seconds vs. airplanes, but that's about it (and perhaps not even that).

I haven't tested destroyer sight, but using GWX 2.1, with 16K, I have managed to spot enemy destroyers and not be engaged by them in return. In reality, you should have something like a 2:1 detection range advantage. I haven't tested that specifically in the game, but I do believe that you have some degree of advantage.

[VIICDriver]

Just back from another patrol and I was not getting "jumped" as bad as previous missions.

I'm thinking it has more to do with my crew now has somemore experience and a few badges now and they are getting better at picking up the enemy before he does me.

Chuck

[Sailor Steve]

I don't buy the whole TC reason either. I constantly use TC (I have no idea how you can have a life outside of SH3 without it!:o ), and between ship spotted and returning to 1x is about 1 second game time. You don't travel very far. It MIGHT make a difference in giving you an extra couple of seconds vs. airplanes, but that's about it (and perhaps not even that).
I think the problem wizardmatt was talking about wasn't TC itself, but the fact that the stock game has "When Enemy Spotted" set for 8x, not 1x; so when the crew spots an enemy ship it only drops to 8x TC, meaning they can spot you before you can react.

[Reece]

GWX 2.1 has the visual sensors (not AI) set to 16km in either environment, so naturally it is much easier in 8k as your crew can still see 16k, but AI can only see to 8k, however, I don't actually know if AI is set to 16k in both as well, someone may be able to shed some light here!:-?

[danlisa]

GWX 2.1 has the visual sensors (not AI) set to 16km in either environment, so naturally it is much easier in 8k as your crew can still see 16k, but AI can only see to 8k

Mate, that's not right at all.;)
It might be the right figures but there is more than one file/area that governs the visibility sensors.

I use the 8km ATM and I can assure you that my crew can NOT 'see/detect' anything over 8.5km. In fact, I have edited my game, so I (me personally) can see targets before my crew, up to around, 9-10km.

The actual consensus about the comparisons of the 8/16KM ATM is that the 16KM should be the easier as you can spot targets long before they spot you. In fact, the 16KM is the version recommended by the GWX team, not only in terms of realism but also in terms of sensor balance.

[Reece]

Hi Dan, if you look into the GWX - 16km Atmosphere option folder you will see that it only contains the Env files & the Scene.dat file. The same sensors.dat & AI_Sensors.dat are used regardless,( answered my question above) so only the "Atmosphere" has changed", I use the 8k Atmosphere & have both dats set down to around 9k.:yep:
Here is a test, run the Navigation Academy mission & using the GWX 8k Atmosphere check the maximum distance in Map with ruler from U-boat, till the Destroyer shows, it is about 12k, now use binoculars, it is around 8k before you can actually see it! Do the same test with 16k atmosphere enabled, both crew (Map) & binoculars will be around 12k!:yep:
What you see through binoculars is the difference of the selected Atmosphere, the Map distance to target is determined by settings in the Sensors.dat file, just for fun I changed the Visual range in Sensors.dat to 50k & you should have seen the fps drop at the start of a mission!!:lol:

[wizardmatt]

I don't buy the whole TC reason either. I constantly use TC (I have no idea how you can have a life outside of SH3 without it!:o ), and between ship spotted and returning to 1x is about 1 second game time. You don't travel very far. It MIGHT make a difference in giving you an extra couple of seconds vs. airplanes, but that's about it (and perhaps not even that). I think the problem wizardmatt was talking about wasn't TC itself, but the fact that the stock game has "When Enemy Spotted" set for 8x, not 1x; so when the crew spots an enemy ship it only drops to 8x TC, meaning they can spot you before you can react.

what steve said :up:

[danlisa]

Here is a test, run the Navigation Academy mission & using the GWX 8k Atmosphere check the maximum distance in Map with ruler from U-boat, till the Destroyer shows, it is about 12k, now use binoculars, it is around 8k before you can actually see it! Do the same test with 16k atmosphere enabled, both crew (Map) & binoculars will be around 12k!:yep:
What you see through binoculars is the difference of the selected Atmosphere, the Map distance to target is determined by settings in the Sensors.dat file, just for fun I changed the Visual range in Sensors.dat to 50k & you should have seen the fps drop at the start of a mission!!:lol:

Done!

Don't know what you've done to your Scene.dat but here's my results:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/danlisa_photo/NavSceneTest1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/danlisa_photo/NavSceneTest2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/danlisa_photo/NavSceneTest3.jpg

[Reece]

I have to concede Dan, it has nothing to do with the Scene I'm using though, it is the Sensors that I used, an old edited version of Der Teddy Bars, I somehow got this in without JSGME, must have deleted the mod without disabling first, that's the trouble with modding!:damn: Obviously the GWX team found a fix for the sensors regardless of scene used!:yep:
Will have to make a slight adjustment to my 8k SH4 Scene for GWX users.:oops:
Sometime I wonder if I should give modding away!!:doh: ...... Nah!!:lol:

[Captain Nemo]

I currently use the 8km atmosphere and whilst my crew and I cannot see beyond this distance there is a cheat (if thats the right word) that enables you to see much further. On the surface using the UZO, if I know that there is a convoy on a rough bearing I can pan the UZO whilst clicking the lock key either side of that bearing and pick up ships much further out than the 8km limitation and if I remember rightly further out than the 16km atmosphere limitation. Having said that its not something I do very often as I feel it is unrealistic.

Nemo