New USS Scorpion book sighted

[nikimcbee]

I recived my new Military Book club ads, and the new featured book is: "All Hands Down" The True Story of the Soviet Attack on the USS Scorpion, by Ken Sewell. The premise of the book is the Soviets sank the Scorpion in retaliation of the loss K-129.

Isn't this the second book on the subject in the last two years? I don't know too much about the subject, so what do you guys think?

[Bill Nichols]

Trash attracts more trash... not worth the paper it's printed on.

:nope:

[nikimcbee]

This from Amazon's description of the book:

Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
Controversy has steadily shadowed the 1968 sinking of the U.S. nuclear submarine Scorpion. The navy's official version of accidental sinking on a routine mission was challenged by allegations that the Scorpion was in fact torpedoed while shadowing a Soviet task force. Further rumors indict the spy John Walker for providing confidential codes to the Soviets, enabling them to track the submarine. Yet another account purports that the Soviets destroyed the Scorpion in retaliation for the sinking of one of their own subs. The two navies eventually called a truce rather than risk further disrupting relations. Sewell, a submarine veteran, and Preisler, a writer of techno-thrillers, add little new evidence in their version of the story; their new data is unfailingly familiar and they never succeed in making a persuasive case for the conspiracy and cover-up they claim occurred. Instead, Sewell and Preisler devote more time to anecdotes about the Scorpion's crew and their families and little vignettes of the routines on board a nuclear sub. What is undeniably useful is the book's demonstration of the high numbers of accidents between ships and aircrafts that were accepted as routine during much of the Cold War. All Hands Down highlights a truth no less relevant today: international incidents are in good part constructions mutually agreed upon after the event. (Apr.)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Review
"Scrupulously researched, compulsively readable, All Hands Down plunges us back to a dark era of surprise attacks against the United States by devious foreign enemies; of the world at the brink of ruinous warfare; of official cover-up. Fortunately, that era is well in the past. Wait a minute..." -- Ron Powers, coauthor, Flags of Our Fathers; Last Flag Down; and The Man Who Flew the Memphis Belle




Wait, I just realized this. This is by the same guy that wrote the Rogue Star book.

[Subnuts]

I'm already seeing copies of Scorpion Down (and we all know how I felt about that book - I heard from a secondary source that my review on this site apparently upset the author! :rotfl:) showing up at Salvation Army, so I suppose someone has to keep the bandwagon from slowing down, huh?

But seriously folks. Look at the wreck of the Scorpion. The bow is the only part that's still intact, and the rest has suffered massive implosion damage. That basically implies that the bow was completely flooded before the sub passed it's crush depth. Not a single sign of a torpedo impact, or the Jumbotron-sized hole you'd expect from 250 to 500 kilograms of high explosive going off against the hull.

But why let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?

[nikimcbee]

I'm already seeing copies of Scorpion Down (and we all know how I felt about that book - I heard from a secondary source that my review on this site apparently upset the author! :rotfl:) showing up at Salvation Army, so I suppose someone has to keep the bandwagon from slowing down, huh?

But seriously folks. Look at the wreck of the Scorpion. The bow is the only part that's still intact, and the rest has suffered massive implosion damage. That basically implies that the bow was completely flooded before the sub passed it's crush depth. Not a single sign of a torpedo impact, or the Jumbotron-sized hole you'd expect from 250 to 500 kilograms of high explosive going off against the hull.

But why let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?

I kept looking for your review at his website:
http://www.scorpiondown.com/index.html

I didn't see it:rotfl:

[Subnuts]

I kept looking for your review at his website:
http://www.scorpiondown.com/index.html

I didn't see it:rotfl:

Well, he did provide a link to a website showing photos of the wreck... none of which actually show any evidence of a torpedo impact! :lol:

[nikimcbee]

I was thinking about this yesterday. I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

Let's assume all of this is true, the Russian's really did sink the Scorpion and we sank the K-129. Since this was a big "cover-up" and it has just been unearthed, you'd think this would be a huge news story. But the last time I checked, there has been nothing in the news about this, no breaking stories.:88)
There would be PBS, History Channel, etc documentaries on the sinking and the cover-up:hmm: ...haven't seen any yet.

But, you gotta admit, it would make a cool Hollywood movie though.:hmm:

[JetSnake]

Are there more than 3 or 4 pictures of the wreckage? I can't find any more in an online search. The photos shown are the detached sail with a huge chunk missing on the aft end, and a couple of close-ups of the bow and a crumpled section. What did happen then?

[TLAM Strike]

Are there more than 3 or 4 pictures of the wreckage? I can't find any more in an online search. The photos shown are the detached sail with a huge chunk missing on the aft end, and a couple of close-ups of the bow and a crumpled section. What did happen then?

The main theories are:
1) MK 37 torpedo battery heated up and eventaully explosion caused secondary exploson of 1 or more torpedo warheads flooding the torpedo room and sinking the sub. This is suggested by evidince of torpedo battrey fires at plants producing Mk 37 torpedos and simulater tests mimicing the Scorpion's 180 degree turn where the report "hot torpedo" was interpited as meaning "hot running torpedo" (an active torpedo in the tube or rack) and causing the submarine to do a 180 degree turn (to enable torpedo safeties- See USS Tang).

2) A MK 37 torpedo became active and was fired after a 180 degree turn but the weapon remained active and homed in on the Scorpion sinking her.

3) The Scorpion was part of a pilot program in which matenace was reduced signifcatnly which may have resaulted in her sinking.

Did I forget any?

[iambecomelife]

I'm already seeing copies of Scorpion Down (and we all know how I felt about that book - I heard from a secondary source that my review on this site apparently upset the author! :rotfl:) showing up at Salvation Army, so I suppose someone has to keep the bandwagon from slowing down, huh?

But seriously folks. Look at the wreck of the Scorpion. The bow is the only part that's still intact, and the rest has suffered massive implosion damage. That basically implies that the bow was completely flooded before the sub passed it's crush depth. Not a single sign of a torpedo impact, or the Jumbotron-sized hole you'd expect from 250 to 500 kilograms of high explosive going off against the hull.

But why let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?

I agree. The public's obsession with conspiracy theories just depresses me to no end. Why can't they just accept that something mundane may have caused the tragedy? Instead, people want something involving massive coverups, UFO's, Elvis, JFK - you get the idea.:nope:

nikimcbee, for a good non-conspiratorial account of the sinking, try "Silent Steel", by Stephen Johnson. If I'm not mistaken his theory is that the sub flooded through a faulty garbage disposal unit and lost buoyancy. Aside from the book, Johnson wrote a biting article about how conspiracy theorists have spun the sinking (unfortunately I don't have the link).

[nikimcbee]

I've heard of the silent steel book. I haven't read it though.

[iambecomelife]

I've heard of the silent steel book. I haven't read it though.

I highly recommend it. The author maintains a pretty good balance of technical information and human interest stories. The latter aspect is quite depressing at times; apparently the bad maintenance and lack of leave made morale extremely low. In some respects it was like the men knew they were doomed beforehand.

[Subnuts]

Aside from the book, Johnson wrote a biting article about how conspiracy theorists have spun the sinking (unfortunately I don't have the link).

I found it:

http://www.terratol.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/Sinking_The_Myths.pdf

[iambecomelife]

Aside from the book, Johnson wrote a biting article about how conspiracy theorists have spun the sinking (unfortunately I don't have the link).

I found it:

http://www.terratol.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/Sinking_The_Myths.pdf

Thanks. This guy understands conspiracy theorists just as well as he understands pressure hulls.

"...a controversy persists, mostly because some, for their own purposes, desire one."

I'm telling you, we're in a sad state. Everything people need to know about History and Science, they learned by watching "The X Files". :roll:

[Bill Nichols]

Silent Steel, by Stephen Johnson

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

[Frame57]

Before these books came out I can at least tell you that the "buzz" over the Scorpion In COMSUBDEVRON 12 was in fact that the Soviets were to blame. But then again we blamed everything on them, so who knows. I am sure that if the Kursk did not sink in such shallow water that because the Miami was relatively close, that the US would have been high on the list of suspicion.:up:

[XabbaRus]

Well just like with Scorpion there are enough Russians who think the US sunk the Kursk......

Oh and some stupid French documentary maker...

[Subnuts]

Time to drag up the Scorpion again. I must be a masochist.

First of all, if the Soviets wanted to sink an American submarine for "revenge," why not sink one that was already snooping around inside one of their naval bases? It's be a whole lot easier to hide "the deed" that way, they'd know exactly where the wreck was, and they'd have a goldmine of intelligence material right in their laps. If you believe Ed Offley or Jerome Preisler, they were stupid enough to sink one in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, in full "view" of underwater hydrophones, completely out of their reach, and when the Americans found the wreck, it'd be pretty obvious what really sank the boat. You'd also have to believe that the Russians were bloodthirsty warmongers who were willing to risk World War III to make a point to the US.

Thankfully, everything about the state of the Scorpion wreck suggests that some sort of catastrophe occurred, and the boat sank below crush depth with it's torpedo room flooded, with no evidence of any internal or external explosion anywhere to be found.

Unfortunately, I'm not receiving national media attention and a book deal for making this post. :roll: