SUBSIM's totally awesome Empire: Total War thread

[Raptor1]

Did they release a new patch... my ETW now mysteriously stops working after the start up screen now... But worked yesterday.:shifty:

Disable yar mods...

[Task Force]

hmmf... works without mods... but without mods... pff...:shifty:

[Raptor1]

Blame the DLC...

Ah, well, most of the stuff should be updated before long.

[Task Force]

wounder if I can still use darthmod, the naval mod, and the music mod...:hmmm:

[Raptor1]

wounder if I can still use darthmod, the naval mod, and the music mod...:hmmm:

I'm pretty sure the latest DarthMod (5.3) is already updated. Naval mod, probably not. Music mod...who knows...

[Task Force]

lol. I hate you steam/CA... lol

[Task Force]

YOUVE GOTTA BE *******ING KIDDINGME!!!:o With this new patch I cant even run darthmod.:nope:

Why dosent steam have a do not patch option...:damn:

Imo the game without mods is nothing but a utter POS...

[Task Force]

For those useing darthmod, and your game will not start... I believe this is a Hotfix for it.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=331141
:up:
will try after reinstall.
(sorry for tri-posting)

[tater]

Yeah, I thought I posted that i got it working with the hotfix. I forgot.

Welcome to the future world of SH5 (assuming yer gullible enough to buy it).

[elanaiba]

The entire Total War series is on sale on Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=total+war

Rome Total War - Gold : 4.41 euros - haven't played much of this but hear its kind of the best. I own it already though.

In other news, I have pre-ordered NTW :)

[Arclight]

Ah, another guinea-pig. Would be interested in opinions on NTW. :yep:

Bought all of the series since RTW, but didn't like the adition of guns in Medieval 2, so ETW isn't high on the list of favorites either. Still considering NTW though; Total War isn't a bad series. :hmmm:

[Task Force]

Hmm, for some reason the AI seems to have the malee bug again... they didnt even stop to fight, just run into me.:shifty:

[Raptor1]

The entire Total War series is on sale on Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=total+war

Rome Total War - Gold : 4.41 euros - haven't played much of this but hear its kind of the best. I own it already though.

In other news, I have pre-ordered NTW :)

RTW was $2.5 on Steam a little while ago, one of the best deals ever IMO

[Task Force]

RTW was $2.5 on Steam a little while ago, one of the best deals ever IMO

2.50.:o Yea, but I still perfer a CD for games that big.:yep: (but It is a good opertunity to get MTW 2...)

[tater]

I found the mod-breaking auto-update pretty annoying since vanilla is pretty horrible from a naval standpoint.

I'd LOVE a role-playing Mediterranean age of sail game concentrating on 5th rates and smaller. Love. With a great sailing model, but a UI that allows it to not require a lifetime at sea to use. I'd pay whatever the market would bear for that.

Add sailing to SH5 (and boarding and surrender for taking prizes).

Wow.

PotBS was such a terrible disappointment from the ancient dev days where they claimed they wanted the sailing model to be "an HMS Surprise simulator with stunning graphics" instead of what it turned out to be (WOW with ships).

[Task Force]

well... I guess the closest to the old naval mod now is darth mod... which since my pc pre upgrade couldnt handle, but now runs fine.:DL

Useing darthmod Ultmate commander edition.)

[tater]

More observations.

One, it's fun, even if crappy in many ways.

The BAI sucks, even with darthmod. Sucks. The AI makes no use of terrain that I can tell. They charge piecemeal into canister, I can easily take out far superior forces, and I stink :)

They like to pause just outside canister range (sensible), and I expect them to then charge the guns, minimizing the effect due to reload times, and they instead calmly get wiped out.

Forts? Awful. BAI is torn between crowding the center flag to prevent capture (making a great target for arty), or storming out in an ant-line (into waiting horse-drawn field pieces and more canister. The grapnels? Yeesh. Might make sense if troops placed on the wall were even marginally effective (they aren't). On the defensive side? You can't sway guns up onto the ramparts (even though the 3d fort model includes canon up there, lol). So you must deploy canon outside.

From a naval POV, there seems to be a bonus when you manually fire the guns in simultaneous broadside (instead of the rolling broadside ("fire as they bear!" that the AI frequently uses). The bonus is profound, too. Park a 2 rate next to a smaller ship, and the AI damages the target badly. Fire yourself, and whatever the smaller target is either instantly strikes, or is crippled with one blow. Way overdone. In RL, only the first broadside was usually done this way, and the primary benefit was that it allowed all the guns to be laid carefully, without the din and smoke. I suppose that's the bonus, but it's still over done. I use it for the first shot, then let the AI fire.

Has anyone fought any actions online in multiplayer? Strikes me that such an engagement would be far far more interesting.

[Task Force]

MPs Ok, Single battles can be fun... Played the campaign with hunter for abit... :yep:

I just wish the naval mod worked with the new patch, I really liked it added some new ships also.

[Task Force]

Lol, just realised that I have a general with the first name Oleg, in my russian campaign...:rotfl2:

So thats why storm of war BOB is comeing along slow.

[Task Force]

Prussia V Russia!

Russia, attacked my army, with about 1 and a half full stacks. (6009 men) while me and my 5090 men. (most were re-enforcements, my origional army was in ruins.) Held off the russian assult as long as we could...

We held for about seven to nine minutes, till it was not possiable, my origional army of just around 1, 500 men was quickly mowed over by the massing russian troops. By the time the retreat got really bad, the re- enforcements arrived.

Luckly for us, we massed on a hill, with are cannon divisions (one at the top, two at the bottom.) and had A long rough fight ahead of us. for the next 20 minutes the hill turnt into a mass grave, my units desperately trying to defeat the russian Foe.

In the end, my units took large losses, the origional army was distroyed, only 4 or 5 divisions left. The russians lost 4056 men from there army (I dont know If the battle chart in the end includes re-enforcements) and I lost 2500. (was probably more tho.)

At the end of the battle the results were lear, both, my eastern armys, and the russians western armys were in shambles.

[tater]

With 3 sets of cannon (assuming at least 2 were field pieces with canister) 5000 should have slaughtered 6000.

I had 600 line infantry (2 groups of 300) and 4 guns (a 12lber group) take on over 2000 men (no arty) and win easily. I tend to use the later English practice of having my infantry units stand in a long line 2 men deep to maximize the volume of fire.

So far the only time I have had trouble with superior numbers was pirates (a rebellion on hispanola I think). I had 2 line inf groups and a militia vs thousands and they swarmed me melee style. Last night I liberated Spain from the pesky Spaniards ;)

THEY declared war on me, they have some of Mexico and Central America left at the moment, and that's it. Now they keep asking for peace. They should have let me fight France alone (I'm putting the torch to all their churches, too). I also have Morocco, I'm gonna burn all the Mosques, too.

[Rilder]

Finally managed to get ETW downloaded, its pretty fun, on EPIII of the RTI campaign I got George Washington killed.(by accident) :rotfl2:

[Castout]

. . . on EPIII of the RTI campaign I got George Washington killed.(by accident) :rotfl2:

To the British that would mean being patriotic :rotfl2:

[haz]

ok it says finished american campain but still cannot play as american,have all dlc,am wondering if anyone knows how to unlock americans to play.or dont they?any help appreciated.

[HunterICX]

I take it is about the Grand Campaign?

The American Grand Campaign is playable, but its not listed in the Grand Campaign menu

IIRC it's a option in the RTI campaign menu to play the grand campaign as the USA starting in 1783 ofcouse.

HunterICX

[Rilder]

Edit beaten. Also currently playing an Austrian campaign atm, Quelling rebellious provinces that aren't close to a warring front is a major pain. :P

[Task Force]

Wow, This why I love darth mod...

My army, 4 full stacks, 15000-16000 russian army, 7000-8000 man... will my pc handel it, will it blow up in my face... I dont know. lol:rotfl2:

WAIT!!! DOES ETW ONLY LIMIT 20 UNITS AT ONCE!!! GAAAAA

[HunterICX]

That has always been in the TW games a player can only get 1 full stack to play.

if he has more, then the rest will come in as reinforcement when one of your units has fallen or retreated.

you can get them all on the field at once but then you'll have to let the AI take over the reinforcement. (you then have no control over them)

HunterICX

[Task Force]

Yea, never knoticed this before... guess cause I never really payed attention. lol

[Castout]

Well I just tried Darthmod with the AUM(many many more new units). I'll be damn I really like the new units. There are too many new units to count :D

And now the neighbors are going to know when I play Empire the gunfire is LOUD. Those rifless now feel like they are more powerful than their contemporary counterpart as they should. Despite the rounded ammo a person is far more likely to survive from being shot by a single M4 rifle ammuniation than one from one of those long rifle.

[tater]

Improper medical care played a huge role in deaths. Heck, they might have had a better chance wounded if they didn't get treatment.

Hell, they didn't even have a concept of hemostasis, they BLED people, lol.

[Castout]

Umm actually I read somewhere that the muzzle speed from a musket rifle is far higher than say the M4 rifle thus a a hit from a musket is far more lethal than a single hit from the M4.

[Raptor1]

Umm actually I read somewhere that the muzzle speed from a musket rifle is far higher than say the M4 rifle thus a a hit from a musket is far more lethal than a single hit from the M4.

A rifle is not a musket and a musket is not a rifle. Some weapons in the Victorian era were referred to as rifled muskets, but in effect they were rifles.

I think muzzle velocity on a musket would be lower because of windage, but musket balls are usually of a far bigger caliber than modern rifles.

[Arclight]

Muzlle velocity isn't everything. Bullet mass is the other half of that equitation, and a 5.56 behaves differently than a musketball after hitting something.

Doubt a musket would be any worse than a M4 with standard issue 5.56 though. :rotfl2:

[Lionclaw]

But both are still bullets and it would be nasty to be hit by any of them. :O:

[tater]

The muzzle velocity of a muzzle loader—any of them—is not remotely close to the muzzle velocity of an M-14/M-4. Not even close.

The former is closer to a pistol (or my break-barrel bb gun) at around 1000 ft/s, and 5.56mm guns are more like 3000 ft/s.

The 5.56 is more lethal under identical conditions I'd wager, big slow bullets do a different kind of damage, and either type is not a good thing in a world with effectively zero medical care sans amputation—a procedure that maybe 50% of people died from afterwards (sepsis).

One guy with an M-4 and a crate of ammo could wipe out a huge Napoleonic force before they could get into range to send the dirt flying near him. Heck, given some over-penetration with FMJ, he'd likely hit a few guys per shot (go right through the first one, and hit the guy behind). OTOH, if you used deformable/frangible bullets...

[Arclight]

Ah, but you don't want the bullet to overpenetrate. And that's exactly what 5.56 does after 100-150m... if you can hit anything; it's not the most accurate cartridge at that range when fired from a short barrel.

Make it an M16, or anything firing Mk 262, and it's a different story. :)

[Task Force]

Hmm, which would I rather be hit with, a bullet M4 or a musket...

Well, I wouldnt want to get hit by ither, but...

A M4 in modern days, sure, a M4 Back then, not really, but ok, a musket from back then, in the 1700s. NO THINKS, you would probably be killed by the lead poisoning from the ball, and the treatments...

[Raptor1]

You would die just the same from the M4, wouldn't you...?

[tater]

Well, on one level (ie: the modern world) overpenetration is bad, but the hydrostatic shock is still there, and I was thinking of Napoleonic times, not modern. At that point, the destroyed tissue would necrose and likely get septic, and virtually anyone hit at all would die—so in 1800, hitting 2 guys with one bullet likely means 2 kills, even if they take a few days or more to happen :)

[eddie]

As far as a musket is concerned, how far would the ball travel before it would start to drop? I know a modern day 44 Mag is not far, don't imagine the musket ball would be either.

[Castout]

A rifle is not a musket and a musket is not a rifle. Some weapons in the Victorian era were referred to as rifled muskets, but in effect they were rifles.

I think muzzle velocity on a musket would be lower because of windage, but musket balls are usually of a far bigger caliber than modern rifles.

Umm thanks for the correction I always thought that a single musket fire packs more punch than a single M-4 fire :oops:.

For modern rifle power well nothing beats the M-14 and the M-16 had more power than the M-4 or am I wrong again?:D

I'm finding the game anew again with Darth mod, AUM mod and AUM graphics mod. This game is incredible. I doubt NTW would give me more fun than this.

[Task Force]

Lol, yea, I like NTW, but I still play ETW more, I think Im haveing abit more fun with ETWs grand campaign, Takeing over the world is fun, lol...

Just wish they would have expanded the map to the asian/ rest of the american theatres...

[tater]

Surprising...

Napoleonic guns fired big ass, slow balls. They did well in the mv department, but not in kinetic energy—or did they?

A brown bess (.75 caliber) fired a 450 grain round (~29 grams). A typical .223 (M-16/M-4 round) is more like 3 grams.

So, the momentum of the brown bess ball at the muzzle is ~304.8*0.029 = 8.84Ns

For the M-4/M-16 round it's 2.74 Ns. So about 1/3 the momentum.

The energy OTOH...

Brown Bess = 1347 joules
M-4/M-16 = 1254 joules

Similar KE. 3X the velocity (which implies 9X KE), but the bullet mass is 10X less. For modern firearms, muzzle velocity dominates because the mass difference of different bullets is small... but huge round balls have huge mass.

I'm honestly surprised, never worked it out before.

BUT, that's at the muzzle. This is where the moder, boattail rounds win out. The .223 is dead flat to 2-300m. That means that the velocity (and hence energy and momentum) at a longish engagement range of 300m is virtually the same as at the muzzle. The non-aerodynamic round ball at 300m is spent.

So if you're unlucky enough to be shot at bayonet range, the musket is worse, but as the range increases, the musket gets worse and worse.

Looks like a musket ball might lose maybe 30% of it's muzzle velocity at 100 yards. That makes the KE = 660 joules. The .223 round wou;d still be around 1200. The ball drops off rapidly after that, too.

[eddie]

One thing tater that we have to keep in mind too is the powder they used back then, and even during the American Civil War. Of course, modern day rounds are made pretty uniformally, where as back in those days, the amount of powder ending up in the weapon would be far from uniform. I can't imagine that during the heat of battle, that all the powder required would even come close each time you fired it.

I've been lucky enough to have visited a lot of Civil War battle fields in Virgina when I lived there, and at a lot of battlefield museums, they have noted accounts of where soldiers, again in the heat of battle, would get so pumped up or excited, that after packing the round in with the ramrod, they would forget to take it out,lol And they would shoot anyway! Now, at long ranges those rods wouldn't go far at all, but at close range, that would be like getting hit with a Scuba Divers speargun, ouch!:haha:

[tater]

Yeah, there was a lot of variability there that contributed to lower lethality. My calcs above were the best case of sticking the barrel of the musket into someone, the energy drop with range quickly renders them not so lethal, and that's not even counting missing the target, loading 8 rounds and never shooting, etc :)

I read that since powder residue so rapidly clogged the barrel, musket balls were a very loose fit—so the final trajectory would depend on the last collision they had with the barrel, explaining inaccuracy.

Civil war stats for smoothbores are also not perfect for earlier periods because they frequently used "buck and ball" which increased the chances of hitting.

Then of course there is smoke... after the first volley, no one could see the target.

[Castout]

Lol, yea, I like NTW, but I still play ETW more, I think Im haveing abit more fun with ETWs grand campaign, Takeing over the world is fun, lol...

Just wish they would have expanded the map to the asian/ rest of the american theatres...


Still waiting for NTW here :nope:

[Rilder]

If anyones interested I started a Lets Play/AAR of ETW on the Bay12 Forums. :)

Here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=50685.0)

[mr chris]

Nice read Rilder.:up:
Might dust of my copy for a play while i wait for the SH5 patch.

[Safe-Keeper]

Improper medical care played a huge role in deaths. Heck, they might have had a better chance wounded if they didn't get treatment.

Hell, they didn't even have a concept of hemostasis, they BLED people, lol.
Homeopathy (the art of giving patients pure water with a spiritual imprint of one of the substances that it contained in the past) had its birth in this environment, and was apparently highly successful because the combination of doing nothing + placebo effect was such a huge leap forward from other quackery which had actual ill effects. Such as bleeding:shifty:.

Then the world moved on, treatment became highly effective, life expectancy soared, and homeopathy... uhm... homeopathy... well... it...
:nope: