China leads world in Executions

[SUBMAN1]

I figured the US would rate higher than 4th place.

One thing that is not taken into account - population. I bet it might be a different story if you base the number on per 100,000 people.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24121932/

-S

[SUBMAN1]

On the same subject - SHould executions be justified for those that rape children?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24115142/

-S

[Ducimus]

I think so.
For starters, if your a rapist, your a piece of sh*t to begin with.

Pedophiles are the lowest of the low. So low, even convicted felons won't tolerate their company. (as evidenced by inmate "housecleaning")

Combine the two? Just give the scumbag his well deserved needle and save everyone a whole lot of time, trouble, and money.

[Tchocky]

Remember that pedophilia is not so much a criminal typology as a mental disorder.

[Wreford-Brown]

We got rid of executions in the UK a number of years ago after some executions of innocent people. Given modern technology and advances in forensics, I think it should be reintroduced, especially for murderers. If you take someone's life, you should give up your right to your own life. There is one golden rule for UK armed police and soldiers regardless of where they are deployed - take a life to save a life.
There's currently talk about creating a DNA database for the UK, with all DNA being taken at birth. Needless to say, the 'human rights' people are dead against it. My personal view is that it will reduce crime. If criminals know that their DNA is on a database then they will be far more likely to be caught therefore less likely to commit crimes.

I'd happily sign up to having my DNA on a database. I'm a law abiding citizen and have nothing to fear from the government having this information particularly if it is backed up by regular police work.

It would be interesting to see how many false convictions there have been on DNA evidence - I doubt there have been many in the last 10 years as the technology has improved.

[Platapus]

Perhaps we can benefit if we adopt some of the Chinese policy of executing corporate executives who are guilty of fraud. That should thin out the corporate population a bit :)

Executing people for raping children is a difficult issue.

Emotionally I am all for the immediate shooting of any scumbag who rapes a child. I think that all people who rape children should be slowly beaten to death with sticks. However emotions are not the basis for laws.

Intellectually, I have to think 'If we are going to execute for child rape, why not execute for adult rape?" Is an adult being raped somehow less of a heinous crime than raping a child? Is it easier for a child to "survive" a rape than for an adult?

Well it has been 40 years since I was raped and sexually abused. I still have memories but frankly it does not affect my life. Some bad men and women did some bad things to me. It was not my fault. I had an otherwise good and loving childhood and you move on. Frankly if the people who raped me were killed, it would not have made much difference to how I would feel. My only regret was that these people were never caught and probably continued to rape children. I know of several adults who have been raped and it seems to affect them more. People are different I guess. Everyone handles personal trauma differently.

If we execute for child rape, do we execute for people who give illegal drugs to children? In some cases more continued harm is done to child drug addicts than child rape victims.

Where do you draw the line? There are heinous crimes abound. Victims are traumatized and some never recover. Can we really base our justification for killing criminals based on the effect their crime had on the victim?

Personally, I am for the death penalty. I am against how the death penalty has been implemented in the United States, but I support the concept.

One aspect of the death penalty I feel strongly about is that I believe that before anyone can be put to death, there has to be scientifically defendable evidence that proves (always a tough word) that this individual is guilty of the crime. No more eye witnesses as the primary evidence. The justice system (an oxymoron if there ever was) is full of examples of witnesses being bullied by spunky ADAs, not remembering correctly, misidentifying people.....

I also believe that witnesses who lie should be convicted of perjury... and ADAs who pressure witnesses disbarred. Fat chance of that ever happening huh?

This is the 21st century. We can't do the stuff we see on TV but we can do a lot. If there is no scientifically defendable evidence, then the person is ineligible for the death penalty. Life with no parole should be the max.

However if there is scientific incontrovertible evidence, that has been independently verified (thanks a lot FBI labs :down: ) then I have no problems with the death penalty.

I believe that the death penalty should be restricted only to those crimes against our society. The really heinous crimes like:

-Taking up two parking spaces so your precious car does not get scratched
-Playing crappy rap music loudly. We don't like your music and now we don't like you
-Bringing small babies into movie theaters or restaurants
- Cutting in to any line or queue. You are not special in any way shape or form.
-Rooting for the Washington Redskins
-Claiming that U-571 is the best submarine movie ever made

If I were king, it would be so.

[Letum]

If your gonna get the death sentance for rapeing a child, then you might as well kill the child as well.

This is why there is allways a lesser sentance for rape than murder.

[Platapus]

If your gonna get the death sentance for rapeing a child, then you might as well kill the child as well.

This is why there is allways a lesser sentance for rape than murder.

Good point. I never understood the death penalty for kidnapping. I thought the whole idea was to not to push the criminal into killing their victim.

When faced with the same penalty, I imagine that the criminal will consider the slight chance of getting away with it if the primary witness (the victim) is eliminated.

Is this really the end state we want?

Good point Letum :up:

[Konovalov]

I figured the US would rate higher than 4th place.

One thing that is not taken into account - population. I bet it might be a different story if you base the number on per 100,000 people.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24121932/

-S

The US is at a major disadvantage with these stats. It doesn't execute political prisoners like China does. China can keep it's number one ranking.

[joegrundman]

Wow platapus, kudos to you for speaking about it so frankly

[Ducimus]

If your gonna get the death sentance for rapeing a child, then you might as well kill the child as well.

This is why there is allways a lesser sentance for rape than murder.

No, you send the sick f**k who raped a CHILD to the execution chamber so he can't ever do it again, then you send the poor kid to a whole lot of counseling and professional help. Kill the child as well? WTF kind of horsesh*t is that? Kid didn't do anything wrong, the kids the victim here.

If we acutally enforced the god damn death penatly rather then have John Q public feed their sorry asses tell they die in prision, our prisions would probably be alot less crowded and people might think twice before they do something really stupid.

[Wreford-Brown]

If your gonna get the death sentance for rapeing a child, then you might as well kill the child as well.

This is why there is allways a lesser sentance for rape than murder.

No, you send the sick f**k who raped a CHILD to the execution chamber so he can't ever do it again, then you send the poor kid to a whole lot of counseling and professional help. Kill the child as well? WTF kind of horsesh*t is that? Kid didn't do anything wrong, the kids the victim here.

If we acutally enforced the god damn death penatly rather then have John Q public feed their sorry asses tell they die in prision, our prisions would probably be alot less crowded and people might think twice before they do something really stupid.

Calm down, Ducimus. I think Letum was saying that the rapist may kill the child as the sentence would be the same and they therefore have nothing to lose.

[Ducimus]

I still say they should be put to death. More ofthen then not, when a kid goes missing, the kid turns up dead anyway, so what difference does it make? Infact, how often in the US have you heard of a missing kid coming back alive as compared to dead in a ditch with his or her pants gone?

The SOB goes to prison and if the inmates don't take care of the problem, hes out on the streets again in 5 to 7 years to do it again. That system just isnt working.

edit: In case anyones figured out, theres three things i hate:
1.) Rapists
2.) Pedophiles
3.) having our tax dollars go to keeping those "hopeless romantics" in the joint

(The combination of all 3 is apparently a hotbutton with me :roll: )


"People" such as these aren't going to change. Prison does NOT rehabilitate, they go in, they come out worse then how they came in. They WILL do it again.

[joegrundman]

Those are cases, indeed, but i believe the vast majority of child rape cases are not random abductions by psychopathic strangers. It is the ones you describe that become not just personal tragedies and terrible crimes, but media events.

Given that the majority of sexually abused children do survive, Letum's point does not deserve instant dismissal.

[Ducimus]

I know, lets bury our heads in the sand and ignore them.. maybe they'll go away and not hurt anymore kids.

yes yes, the prison system works, no really, it does! They acutally get rehabilitated (:roll:), and come out as better individuals then how they came in (:roll:), and they'll NEVER do it again (:roll:).

edit: Oh and , nevermind that rape is a violent crime to begin with. As much as both sicken me, i think there is a BIG difference between child molestation , and child rape.

[SUBMAN1]

..."People" such as these aren't going to change. Prison does NOT rehabilitate, they go in, they come out worse then how they came in. They WILL do it again.I have to agree on this point. Wasted tax dollars.

[Letum]

..."People" such as these aren't going to change. Prison does NOT rehabilitate, they go in, they come out worse then how they came in. They WILL do it again.

The repeate offense rate for pedophilia is around 13% and as low as 7% with
treatment programs. i.e. 93% do come out better than they go in.
This is a low repeate offense rate compared to most crime.

[SUBMAN1]

..."People" such as these aren't going to change. Prison does NOT rehabilitate, they go in, they come out worse then how they came in. They WILL do it again.
The repeate offense rate for pedophilia is around 13% and as low as 7% with
treatment programs. i.e. 93% do come out better than they go in.
This is a low repeate offense rate compared to most crime.Try 98% repeat offense rate in the US. They never get better, or rarely. Unless you know something I don't?

-S

PS. Here is a solution - chemical castration - http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1778

[Platapus]

Try 98% repeat offense rate in the US. They never get better, or rarely.

-S

Got a source or citation for that number? Seems a bit high

[SUBMAN1]

Got a source or citation for that number? Seems a bit highIt might be - I heard it somewhere, though my chemical castration link says 75%. CLick it and check.

-S

PS. THis one says nearly 100% repeat rate - http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/090306/loc_pedlaw001.shtml

PPS. I think sexual predators can never be cured. SOmething in them makes them do it forever. So the chemical castration probably is the best answer.

[Letum]

Im more than a little doubtful of my source.
I can't seam to find a good source that isn't from the press or the public.....:shifty:

[SUBMAN1]

Its got to be high. Normally, as a man, you like women. Imagine if that same drive went to children instead? I don't think its cureable personally. Once you like women, you like women for life. If you happen to like children you will like them for life. I'd guess without reading anything that its a high repeat offense and one that is incureable I would think.

Just my two cents on it. I could be wrong.

-S

[Letum]

It is true that people cant be "cured" of pedophilia in the same way you can't "cure"
someone of heterosexuality or homosexuality, but that does not mean they will offend or
re-offend. There are plenty of non-offending pedophiles who never offend. (Perhaps
the majority).

Crime can be cured, sexual preference can't.

As long as the don't offend at all... Ever.... At all then there is no reason why they can
not live in normal society.

My gut reaction is strongly against what I have written above, but I think it is rational.

*edit*
OK, I have found a second source. The first claimed a repeat offense rate of 7%-13%.
This second source from Canada claims a repeat offense rate of 12%-14%, which is close.
I think 13% looks like a good ball-park figure. (LINK) (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/november97/offenders1.html)
1st more unrelyable link (http://getunderground.com/underground/columns/article.cfm?Article_ID=860)

The repeat offense rate for criminals over all is around 75%


*edit2*
Intrestingly, wiki informs me that:
Regressed offenders are primarily attracted to their own age group but are passively aroused by minors (pseudo-pedophiles).
[...]
Fixated offenders are most often adult pedophiles who are maladaptive to accepted social norms. They develop compatibility and self-esteem issues, stunting their social growth.

"This offender identifies with children, in other words considers him or herself to be like a child and thus seeks sexual relationships with what the offender perceives to be other children".
[...]
The great majority of offenders fit into the regressed category. Only between 2-10% percent of all offenders are fixated.

Im feeling a little ill reading through this stuff on google. I have a close friend directly and most very adversely effected by this issue. :(

*edit3*
It's hard to find credible sources. My 2nd source is the only one I could find with the name
of a Dr. One sourced claimed a 99% re-offense rate with each pedophile molesting a average
of 200 children. A lot of sources with motives.