Evading Escorts- Time Compression does NOT guarantee detection!

[predavolk]

I'm reversing my position on this one. 2nd last patrol, and especially the last patrol, I used up to 32x time compression while being hunted by escorts without any problems. Including at least one destroyer (I was only pinged once). My earlier data was affected by a spurious correlation with weather. I was hunting convoys in glass water off Gibraltar, and was always detected except for one non TC run.

Please note that I'm not saying that TC grants immunity to detection, but it doesn't automatically give you away. Which is a blessing, because I don't have hours to spend waiting for an escort to give up while I slip away at 2 knots.

I'm using a Type IXB, operating at 40M - 170M depth, going 2 knots (so right on 100rpm), silent running, using GWX 2.0. And in heavy sea states, I've had no problems evading the escorts, despite depth charge runs and some pinging. This is in area AM 53. I had the whirlwind tour of 3-days of action (actual tour lasted one week) in transiting from Wil. to Lorient. I ran into FOUR convoys, each thick with a couple of tankers or large merchants. While I missed an ammunition ship (really ticked about that one, shot two torps at it and wanted to see it/hear it blow!!), I nailed 80K of shipping. This is in November of 1940. The escorts strangely only responded with a single ship joining in, which no doubt helped me escape each time by diving to 40M (once) and 160M+ (3x) then creeping along at 2 knots. Typically the escort charged in, dropped a string of depth charges, sometimes pinged, then proceed to drop less and less accurate strings (the 40M got in a good 2nd run, but then lost me). Strangely enough, each convoy had a massive screening escort of 4-6 ships in each time. My tactics were to get in front of the convoy, or to come in from the side (that resulted in long-range shots), take my shots, then immediately go to flank speed and dive for deeper depths while running away from my position. After a minute or so, I'd cut speed and turn another 90 degrees. That got me out of the area quickly, but didn't give other escorts a lot of time to get a fix on me (I hope). Either that or the rough seas (10-15kt winds) helped me out. I never thought I'd be happy for rough seas! Despite the heavy seas, visibility was generally good, which made the attacks possible (and was more realistic than the super-storms so often encountered).

This also worked at the front end of the attacks when I used time compression while waiting in ambush.

I realize this doesn't prove anything, but it does disprove the hypothesis that TC close to escorts automatically betrays your position. At this point in the war, with one escort hunting, in heavy seas, in 1940, it's not a guaranteed problem to use time compression when you're close to escorts. :up:

I'm at 450K tons now (end of Nov. 1940), so maybe it's time to leave tonnage for a bit and try this TC on some renown-heavy task forces! Yes, overconfidence kills, but fortune favors the bold! :arrgh!:

[Bosje]

That may be related to the early war, I can verify TC not being a guaranteed give-away in 1940, used TC plenty of times waiting for the destroyers to use up their depthcharges some 100 meters behind me.

but

I have also seen destroyers running straight back to my position some time after they had gone back to the convoy. This happened several times when i used x32 compression while NOT silent (2/3 speed, reloading tubes while ascending back up to Pdepth)

Also

I got noticed by a sleeping destroyer parked in scapa flow while i passed close by. that was in stock SH3. I am pretty sure I had silent running on but was making more than 100rpm, he woke up and went after me in the shallows almost as soon as I put on TC (like you, I dont always have the time to sit out the 3 hour sneaking in real time)

So far in GWX, I have used Time Compression without being detected, but always when very silent. (silent running and below 100rpm)

certainly in 1940 this has been perfectly safe for me so far.

My conclusions based on my observations up to this point are:
-Time compression is safe as long as you remain absolutely silent, relative to the enemy's abilities
-If the enemy is theoretically able to detect you, they WILL detect you when you use time compression.

So for later war years i suspect TC becomes unsafe at any time whenever they are actively searching for you, in 1940 you are safe at silent running below 100rpm, whether at 1x or 64x is immaterial.

[tomfon]

It seems that you are doing quite well! Just don't rely on the TC too much.
It is better if you play the game at 1x speed from time to time especially when attacking a convoy. You will learn many things observing the behaviour of the destroyers. This early war experience will serve you well when you will have to deal with late war convoys and task forces.:up:
At least, this is my experience.

[Umfuld]

So far in GWX, I have used Time Compression without being detected
See, that's me too. I would have bet my life that TC did cost you when at 1x you'd be safe, but since using GWX2.0 I've found this not to be the case. And I've started to get bolder the more I've played, still not a problem.

[Jimbuna]

The real problem with high tc is that if you commit an error that leads to your detection, the resultant consequence may have quite easily taken place before you are able to react http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Phaedrus]

The real problem with high tc is that if you commit an error that leads to your detection, the resultant consequence may have quite easily taken place before you are able to react http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif


Agreed.

I frequently use TC to clear the area after an attack, but if I'm actively being depth charged, it's best to keep it at 1 or maybe 4 or 8 (if they don't know what they're doing).

The key is using your hydrophones and trying to keep the boat at a proper profile to the attacking escorts.... if you're running at 32 you might get caught broadside.
Late war, half the battle is evading the first escort before the other escorts can get there to join the hunt. When you've got the one pinging you while another two make DC runs, you're into some trouble.



That being said.... I strongly advise against using TC if you happen to get jumped by a Hunter-Killer group.

With run of the mill escorts its not a big deal.... but HK's are lean and mean.

[Kaleun Volk]

I'm reversing my position on this one. 2nd last patrol, and especially the last patrol, I used up to 32x time compression while being hunted by escorts without any problems. Including at least one destroyer (I was only pinged once). My earlier data was affected by a spurious correlation with weather. I was hunting convoys in glass water off Gibraltar, and was always detected except for one non TC run.

Please note that I'm not saying that TC grants immunity to detection, but it doesn't automatically give you away. Which is a blessing, because I don't have hours to spend waiting for an escort to give up while I slip away at 2 knots.

I'm using a Type IXB, operating at 40M - 170M depth, going 2 knots (so right on 100rpm), silent running, using GWX 2.0. And in heavy sea states, I've had no problems evading the escorts, despite depth charge runs and some pinging. This is in area AM 53. I had the whirlwind tour of 3-days of action (actual tour lasted one week) in transiting from Wil. to Lorient. I ran into FOUR convoys, each thick with a couple of tankers or large merchants. While I missed an ammunition ship (really ticked about that one, shot two torps at it and wanted to see it/hear it blow!!), I nailed 80K of shipping. This is in November of 1940. The escorts strangely only responded with a single ship joining in, which no doubt helped me escape each time by diving to 40M (once) and 160M+ (3x) then creeping along at 2 knots. Typically the escort charged in, dropped a string of depth charges, sometimes pinged, then proceed to drop less and less accurate strings (the 40M got in a good 2nd run, but then lost me). Strangely enough, each convoy had a massive screening escort of 4-6 ships in each time. My tactics were to get in front of the convoy, or to come in from the side (that resulted in long-range shots), take my shots, then immediately go to flank speed and dive for deeper depths while running away from my position. After a minute or so, I'd cut speed and turn another 90 degrees. That got me out of the area quickly, but didn't give other escorts a lot of time to get a fix on me (I hope). Either that or the rough seas (10-15kt winds) helped me out. I never thought I'd be happy for rough seas! Despite the heavy seas, visibility was generally good, which made the attacks possible (and was more realistic than the super-storms so often encountered).

This also worked at the front end of the attacks when I used time compression while waiting in ambush.

I realize this doesn't prove anything, but it does disprove the hypothesis that TC close to escorts automatically betrays your position. At this point in the war, with one escort hunting, in heavy seas, in 1940, it's not a guaranteed problem to use time compression when you're close to escorts. :up:

I'm at 450K tons now (end of Nov. 1940), so maybe it's time to leave tonnage for a bit and try this TC on some renown-heavy task forces! Yes, overconfidence kills, but fortune favors the bold! :arrgh!:
I second this, Just last night I was in BE99 in rough waters, sinking that sweet tonnage in a convoy... Attacked from one side, was detected because I left my scope up (a noob mistake), dove under one side of the convoy and snuck out under it on the other at 170M, at 16X, the cans gave up the chase after 30 game minuts elapsed and I went safely for coffie and other snacks (a Kaleun does not run on propaganda alone) and returned to a Safe and happy boat with no cans on the surface.I still believe that loading a saved game may cause detection though, because I have seen some wierd stuff happen when loading a game... although i think that is a glitch that has carried over from the original (im on GWX like most other people)...Good Luck and Good Hunting (at increaded speed :) )

[predavolk]

To keep adding to this, late 1940, I have just ravaged several more convoys. Evasion was remarkably simple. My biggest tip, that I haven't heard mentioned often here, is to run FLANK for a minute or two, NOT to dive silently right away as I have been advised. Running flank seems to get you away from the firing spot, preventing the closing escort from finding you. Said escort is usually charging in, so you have the time to put on some speed without being detected. This gives you the critical advantage of first evasion.

The last six or seven convoys I've attacked have been the same. Submerged, periscope depth, 1-2kts, TC until they get close enough to attack. Then attack, once finished attack run flank 90 degrees from position. Evade first depth charge attack by flank and another ninety, and by then I'm below 100M closing on 160M, slow to silent, and merrily TC your way out. Slow the TC when you expect a depth charge attack (usually takes 3 minutes) to make sure they're falling behind you, then you're home free! Rinse and repeat. I've had some bad luck with torpedo shots, and left a couple of wounded ships, but it's been good for an 80K and a 70K patrol respectively. The 70K was done in tanker alley (BE 39), where, most significantly, the wind was below 5knts max. So I'm not sure what I'm doing better now than before, but TC can work in calm seas too. That's very handy to know. I finished the entire patrol in 4-5 hours real time!

[Umfuld]

run FLANK for a minute or two


Umfuld no like bad medicine.