French Waffen SS ?

[Mikhayl]

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[3Jane]

Neo-Nazi idiots really have nothing to do with the WWII waffen ss.

[Takao]

Is it a joke since they are holding the flag upside down?

or are they just idiots who have no clue.

[Trex]

Old adage - When stupidity is a sufficient excuse, don't waste your time looking further.

SS Charlemagne died in Berlin 60 years ago. These are just fools.

[mrbeast]

Neo-Nazi idiots really have nothing to do with the WWII waffen ss.

I wouldn't say that, they both subscribe to the same twisted ideology.

I do find it rather perverse though that Frenchmen should idolise nazi Germany when it invaded France causing death and destruction.

[STEED]

Whats new?

[Trex]

I do find it rather perverse though that Frenchmen should idolise idolise nazi Germany when it invaded France causing death and destruction.
Fascism, like communism, tended to cross borders quite easily. There was a substantial pre-war Nazi-linked movement in virtually every Western country, including the UK and the USA. Many important people saw fascism as a counterweight against anarchy, communism and, oh yes, 'international Jewry', all of which were seen as bigger threats. The 30s were a time of internal foment and revolution; many nations were suffering serious internal splits in their societies.

If your main worry is communism (and many people considered it a real threat) and if there has been a substantial, perhaps violent, communist movement in your country (and there had been in most), it’s not hard to understand that some people could see the Nazis as a viable defence against the reds, one worthy of support. If you were brought up anti-Semitic (and anti-Semitism was very widespread, including at high levels), anybody willing to take on the ‘Jewish conspiracy’ might be considered with favour. If your country has been overrun in a week and your army made to look like a bunch of boy scouts with gout, you might begin to consider your own society as decadent, corrupt and by extension unworthy and be willing to transfer your loyalty to the strong as a higher loyalty. Milk all this with sophisticated propaganda (and they were damned good at it) and you get a lot of young men willing to serve what should have been their enemy. About the only nationality who did not buy into it were the British – the Legion of St George never got much beyond 30 people.

The Waffen SS at one time or another had 39 divisions. Of these, 15 were formed entirely from non-Germans, including Dutch, French, Hungarian, Belgian, Russian, Italian, Yugoslav, Ukranian, Latvian, Estonian and Albanians. On top of that, there were mixed three more mixed German/foreign divisions with strong contingents from Scandinavia, Latvia and Italy. Then there were still more divisions formed all or in part from ‘ethnic Germans’ – foreigners of German ancestry. The Waffen SS had hundreds of thousands of foreigners in it.

All of that was at a time of war, confusion, state propaganda and such. While it does not excuse treason, it does to some extent help to understand it. With what we know today, the odds of a French Waffen SS starting again are pretty slim.

Which leads us back to Point One – when stupidity is sufficient excuse, don’t bother looking further.

[Trex]

Mikhayl,

No argument. And yet the Foreign Legion, undoubtedly with its intake of ex-German troops, served France pretty well in the years thereafter, as I recall. Mind you, there was a small fuss about Algeria, I seem to remember, but the motivation for that doesn't seem to have been facsist in nature.

Reference our two idiots. It has long been a maxim in most armies that the most dangerous thing in your career will be a second lieutenant with a compass. To that list might well be added a drunken corporal with a video camera.

[Jimbuna]

Most true :yep:

[antikristuseke]

The Waffen SS at one time or another had 39 divisions. Of these, 15 were formed entirely from non-Germans, including Dutch, French, Hungarian, Belgian, Russian, Italian, Yugoslav, Ukranian, Latvian, Estonian and Albanians. On top of that, there were mixed three more mixed German/foreign divisions with strong contingents from Scandinavia, Latvia and Italy. Then there were still more divisions formed all or in part from ‘ethnic Germans’ – foreigners of German ancestry. The Waffen SS had hundreds of thousands of foreigners in it.

All of that was at a time of war, confusion, state propaganda and such. While it does not excuse treason, it does to some extent help to understand it. With what we know today, the odds of a French Waffen SS starting again are pretty slim.

Which leads us back to Point One – when stupidity is sufficient excuse, don’t bother looking further.

Treason? When it comes to the Waffen SS and its foreginer legion things are not quite as simple as you seem to be making them out to be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Esto nian)#Modern_controversy

[caspofungin]

i remember reading that the last defenders in the reichstag were a french waffen ss unit.

just as screwed up as the neo-nazi soldiers is the fact that the military authorities apparently tried to cover things up.

[Trex]

Treason? When it comes to the Waffen SS and its foreginer legion things are not quite as simple as you seem to be making them out to be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Esto nian)#Modern_controversy

I was not talking about political indoctrination. By definition, if you volunteer to fight with the armed forces of a nation at war with yours, it is treason. That would include many of those countries.

It was, to be sure, a confusing time. The Baltic states in particular were in a bind. But, for instance, a Russian volunteering to fight with the SS wrote his own eventual label.

[antikristuseke]

Misunderstood what you ment, my bad, sorry.

[Trex]

Not at all. I suspect I did not express my thoughts clearly enough.