There are some very sick people in the world

[SUBMAN1]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,546635,00.html

No words possible for that.

Time to start a play about the Germans love for killing jews in my opinion. Its along the same lines.

-S

[3Jane]

A sensitive issue, but hardly sick. I see no real problems with it.

[SUBMAN1]

A sensitive issue, but hardly sick. I see no real problems with it.

You can't be serious?

[Tango589]

That is in such indescribably bad taste that I almost choked on my beer. How someone can think that this is justifiable is completely beyond me.:nope: BTW I thought it was illegal to give the nazi salute in Germany now? Perhaps I'm wrong.

[Tchocky]

A little on the nose, although anything to get more riots in theatres is good in my book.

[August]

Every time i think i've seen the acme of disgusting crap labled as "art" Germany proves me wrong again. :nope:

[FIREWALL]

"One has to introduce new elements," he says. Otherwise it is difficult to attract new theater goers.


That says it all. I wonder how much a head he charges.

They rant about capitalism but, their still out there for the almighty buck also.

Useally if not always at someone elses EXPENSE.

These ASSHATS make me sick.

[Konovalov]

Time to start a play about the Germans love for killing jews in my opinion. Its along the same lines.
-S
How puerile of you.

On the topic I do find it offensive and tacky but I see no need to follow your equally tasteless suggestion. :roll:

[AVGWarhawk]

This looks seriously stupid. Not to mention those seniors need to get some cloths on....

[FIREWALL]

Is this why people yell FIRE in theaters ? :p

[Platapus]

Well that's art for you.

It does not have to appeal to everyone. I can't imagine this play being financially successful.

It is artistically successful evidently. It was meant to shock and offend, and, judging from the comments here it did.

Me? I just don't let stuff like this get to me. Life is way too short to worry about this type of stuff. :nope:

[Trex]

I have always felt that the purpose of art is to evoke emotion. There are however three emotions exempt from that - boredom, contempt and bewilderment. This seems to hit all three.

I would be interested in finding out if this work has received any government subsidies or support. Generally, the ones who are good enough to earn a living at art (of whatever type) do so; the remainder demand public money and complain about capitalism and how unfair everything is.

Let's not waste any more of Earth's rapidly-diminishing electron resources on this sort of heiffer-dust.

[Skybird]

Can't say I like it, but provocative and nude performances in german theatres and operas is nothing new. It's part of artistic freedom - and that includes the freedom of showing bad taste, too, which happens often in german theatre and opera productions. Where freedom usually is accepted to eventually produce conflict and critical comment, or heartbreaking, hysterically exaggerated pathos - there must be freedom for the other extreme as well. That'S what it is about, this freedom. You either take both the light and the shadow - or you are left with only the darkness.

People are also free to buy a ticket - or not. that also is a freedom. the latter is the choice I would make. Was dem einen recht ist, ist dem anderen billig: we had the Fitna movie. Now we have the arab reaction to Fitna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpiccERJaFk.

And occasionally we also have tasteless theatre perfomances like the one in Germany. All that is freedom of arts and freedom of speech. In case of needing to chose - I prefer this freedom, than to censor it.

[SUBMAN1]

How puerile of you.

On the topic I do find it offensive and tacky but I see no need to follow your equally tasteless suggestion. :roll:Exactly the reaction I was aiming for.

-S

[PeriscopeDepth]

Yeah, it's offensive. But so are hate groups. And freedom of speech allows those...

PD

[Ducimus]

>>There are some very sick people in the world


You're just now discovering this?

People bad mouth, walk on, crap on, and do tasteless crap directed at us all over the world, every day. Its nothing new. Or is this the first time you got a good wiff of it?

[Konovalov]

Can't say I like it, but provocative and nude performances in german theatres and operas is nothing new. It's part of artistic freedom - and that includes the freedom of showing bad taste, too, which happens often in german theatre and opera productions. Where freedom usually is accepted to eventually produce conflict and critical comment, or heartbreaking, hysterically exaggerated pathos - there must be freedom for the other extreme as well. That'S what it is about, this freedom. You either take both the light and the shadow - or you are left with only the darkness.

People are also free to buy a ticket - or not. that also is a freedom. the latter is the choice I would make. Was dem einen recht ist, ist dem anderen billig: we had the Fitna movie. Now we have the arab reaction to Fitna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpiccERJaFk.

And occasionally we also have tasteless theatre perfomances like the one in Germany. All that is freedom of arts and freedom of speech. In case of needing to chose - I prefer this freedom, than to censor it.

Exactly. Well said. :yep:

[STEED]

I do believe the more you rant against these people the bigger there smile. Sorry to say that, but it's true. Seen it so many times I lost count, they love to shock people and upset them while another percentage think it's cool.


Sad world we live in...................

[FIREWALL]

>>There are some very sick people in the world


You're just now discovering this?

People bad mouth, walk on, crap on, and do tasteless crap directed at us all over the world, every day. Its nothing new. Or is this the first time you got a good wiff of it?


I'd like to see or hear of one country just ONE that has ever given us even one dollar much less millions.

I notice that most who bash USA don't have the balls to put what country under their avatar there from.

It would put everyone on an even playing field. :yep:

[SUBMAN1]

...And occasionally we also have tasteless theatre perfomances like the one in Germany. All that is freedom of arts and freedom of speech. In case of needing to chose - I prefer this freedom, than to censor it.
Exactly. Well said. :yep:No entirely. This is coming from a country that promotes US bashing, yet at the same time has a ban on freedom of speech? The swastika for example. There is no real freedom of speech in Germany.

-S

[Konovalov]

...And occasionally we also have tasteless theatre perfomances like the one in Germany. All that is freedom of arts and freedom of speech. In case of needing to chose - I prefer this freedom, than to censor it.
Exactly. Well said. :yep:No entirely. This is coming from a country that promotes US bashing, yet at the same time has a ban on freedom of speech? The swastika for example. There is no real freedom of speech in Germany.

-S

Apart from the Swastika example for obvious reasons can you give a broad list of examples to support your claim that "there is no real freedom of speech in Germany"?

[FIREWALL]

>>There are some very sick people in the world


You're just now discovering this?

People bad mouth, walk on, crap on, and do tasteless crap directed at us all over the world, every day. Its nothing new. Or is this the first time you got a good wiff of it?


I'd like to see or hear of one country just ONE that has ever given us even one dollar much less millions.

I notice that most who bash USA don't have the balls to put what country under their avatar there from.

It would put everyone on an even playing field. :yep:


To All : READ THE ABOVE

[Trex]

No entirely. This is coming from a country that promotes US bashing, yet at the same time has a ban on freedom of speech? The swastika for example. There is no real freedom of speech in Germany.

Citing one example, in this case the ban on Nazi symbols, as proving a lack of free speech is dangerous. For instance, it is illegal in the UK to 'glorify' terrorism. Does that mean that the UK does not have free speech? Hardly.

[FIREWALL]

Sadly I think the UK Politicaly and economicaly is slowly becomeing a third world country.

[STEED]

Sadly I think the UK Politicaly and economicaly is slowly becomeing a third world country.

A solid cold hard fact which I've known for a very long time. People will not get off there fat ass to vote as they say, "Voting changes nothing."

And Politicians like to keep it at that, I'm paying more and more TAX and my gas & electric bills have gone up so much I've had it up to here.

People in this country will sit in horse crap for the rest of there lives as long as they have there soaps, sport and gadgets to worship. :nope:

[Tchocky]

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face, STEED. In a 3rd World country you don't get to pay gas and electric bills.

[STEED]

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face, STEED. In a 3rd World country you don't get to pay gas and electric bills.

The UK is falling apart and no one has the guts to grab the nettle even if makes there hand bleed to sort the mess out.

N.H.S now ranks below Poland's Health Service.

I got to wait five weeks to see a GP and this one for the earliest slot I could get.

My own Farther has to wait more than a year for an operation and he's in a lot of pain. So bloody much for this Labour Government telling us all everything is ticker-t-bo.

[mrbeast]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,546635,00.html

No words possible for that.

Time to start a play about the Germans love for killing jews in my opinion. Its along the same lines.

-S

Seems a bit ironic really but this is almost like some of the outrage over Fitna but in reverse.

If you want freedom of speech Subman you have to take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid.

BTW all sounds like a bunch of pretentious tripe to me, the opera that is.

[Konovalov]

Seems a bit ironic really but this is almost like some of the outrage over Fitna but in reverse.

If want freedom of speech Subman you have to take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid.

BTW all sounds like a bunch of pretentious tripe to me, the opera that is.
:yep: I don't think you are the first to have such a thought. Throwing stones and glass houses I'd say. :shifty:

[Platapus]

I'd like to see or hear of one country just ONE that has ever given us even one dollar much less millions.



Poland. I believe Poland paid us their debt for World War II

[mrbeast]

I'm not sure how you can say that with a straight face, STEED. In a 3rd World country you don't get to pay gas and electric bills.

The UK is falling apart and no one has the guts to grab the nettle even if makes there hand bleed to sort the mess out.

N.H.S now ranks below Poland's Health Service.

I got to wait five weeks to see a GP and this one for the earliest slot I could get.

My own Farther has to wait more than a year for an operation and he's in a lot of pain. So bloody much for Labour Government telling us all everything is ticker-t-bo.

Well the longest I've ever had to wait for a GP is a couple of days at the most.

Also when did we fall below Poland? Last time I looked we were ranked 18

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[STEED]

Also when did we fall below Poland? Last time I looked we were ranked 18

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Out of date, did you see Revised 29-FEB-07


It was reference to a section of the N.H.S like A&E or standards, what ever.

[Trex]

Well, there must be limits to free speech. No one has the freedom to shout, "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, for instance. Child pornography is just about universally banned. But within some pretty broad limits, the producer of this little lovefest is, I suppose, free to get on with his production.

Having said that, MrBeast hit the nail on the head with his use of the word 'pretentious'. This isn't bold and it isn't daring; it's a just three year old trying to shock with potty words. "Christ, Hans, we've used every swear word in the book and they are still bored. Maybe if we got some naked grandmothers on stage it would get their attention, yes?"

What is objectionable about this drivel is that the self-appointed art experts will all be wetting their lace knickers in delight and sneering at the overwhelming majority who lack the 'vision' to appreciate its depth.

And the Emperor's new clothes suit him so well, don't you think?

[SUBMAN1]

Seems a bit ironic really but this is almost like some of the outrage over Fitna but in reverse.

If you want freedom of speech Subman you have to take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid.

BTW all sounds like a bunch of pretentious tripe to me, the opera that is.Where do you get the idea that I am saying they can't do it? And, I am not protesting in the streets like Fitna either. You make correlations here that don't stack up. However, someone doing the same thing about the Germans love for killing the Jews would be on equal ground.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Well the longest I've ever had to wait for a GP is a couple of days at the most.
You shouldn't have to wait longer than 30 minutes. You think 3 days is good? Crazy.

-S

[NEON DEON]

>>There are some very sick people in the world


You're just now discovering this?

People bad mouth, walk on, crap on, and do tasteless crap directed at us all over the world, every day. Its nothing new. Or is this the first time you got a good wiff of it?


I'd like to see or hear of one country just ONE that has ever given us even one dollar much less millions.

I notice that most who bash USA don't have the balls to put what country under their avatar there from.

It would put everyone on an even playing field. :yep:


To All : READ THE ABOVE

Islanders are sooooo pushy;)

[Skybird]

Since it is about the fall of nations now, I recommend everybody the book that I currently read myself (still in the middle of it): Machiavelli: "Discorsi". That is a real eye-opener, and so laser-sharp observed by him. Although he takes his many examples from Rome, he could as well have had our present in mind when showing what works and what not in keeping a nation together, and keeping it healthy. Where he shows how experiments and political proceedingsa failed in the past, and why, I immediately realised how precise a description of many most elemental problems of modern Western democracies his comments are. His evil reputation of being mercilessly and egoist, is undeserved - he just does not become sentimental and instead sees reality like it is, in good and in bad. For political dreamdancers wanting to deceive the people for selfish interests, that is of course most unwelcome. Machiavelli is no state tyrant. In fact, he is a strong defender of the concept of a republic. but for a republic to work, many hard truths must be realised, and understood. And from that both Europe and America are lightyears away, judging by Machiavellis descriptions. we only have how both continents were planned to be like - and failed in realising that.

I already had read his biography longer while ago, which already was exciting, too.

[jumpy]

Can't see what difference it makes to reveal where you are from... or the motivation in this context to 'even the playing field'. Is someone taking notes and planning a visit? :lol:

What can I say, if you always hold the biggest stick, you can't expect everyone to like you, and can you be sure that even those who say they do are only saying so because of your big stick? Then there's the attitude one sometimes gets after holding that big stick for a while. The result is not always pleasant.:nope:

[bookworm_020]

IT seems a pathetic play that trys to cash in on poor taste and chep shots.. Still I think if you ignore it it will die quite quickly.

[Skybird]

IT seems a pathetic play that trys to cash in on poor taste and chep shots.. Still I think if you ignore it it will die quite quickly.
Yep, that's what happens with not a few theatre experiments like this. and once gone, nobody conciders them to be a loss. And short time later, only journalists eventually remembers them - when the next chaos group starts a mess on stage :lol:

[Etienne]

More post-modern theather crap. Seriously, I think half of these weirdos don't even do it to troll anymore, they actually believe themselves.

This is probably another of these stupid things that won't be remembered except for the free publicity the climb-the-curtain-in-outrage crowd will give it.

And Eeeeeew, naked old people.

[HunterICX]

I wonder how many people left the theater.....I would.

HunterICX

[Happy Times]

Is the director a communist? I would bet on it..

[Skybird]

Is the director a communist? I would bet on it..
?!
The article say he is Marxist, I think. But he could as well be something different. Bad taste is not limited to communism.

[Happy Times]

Is the director a communist? I would bet on it..
?!
The article say he is Marxist, I think. But he could as well be something different. Bad taste is not limited to communism.

We have these "masterpieces" in Finland also, from the "artists" 90% are commies.
Im not saying they dont have the right for their art. The thing that irritates is that most are financed by tax revenue when there are real artists left without support.

[Skybird]

The thing that irritates is that most are financed by tax revenue when there are real artists left without support.
OH YES...!

Only that I do not know how to separate support for good things from support for bad things. you do not know in advance what a person is going to do when launching a project.

But maybe one could at least stop giving a person that screwed it up the last three times the money to mess it up a fourth time.

[Trex]

If he was serious about using nudity to embody (no pun intended) the victims of capitalism yadayada, he would have hired some street people to wave their willies at the audience. That would have shown a convincing convergence between art and reality as well as helping to address, albeit temporarily, the problems caused by capitalism.

[mrbeast]

Well the longest I've ever had to wait for a GP is a couple of days at the most.
You shouldn't have to wait longer than 30 minutes. You think 3 days is good? Crazy.

-S

I said at the most and a few years ago now, last few times I phoned my GP for an appointment I was sitting in the waiting room about 3 or 4 hours later.

Well we can't all have health systems ruled by insurance companies.

[bradclark1]

What it is is a former East German small time theater in a small time former East German town trying to make the news. These are former enemies who probably aren't too thrilled with the economic realities of Democracy. It succeeded. F--- um.

[Skybird]

"Former enemies" :lol: Nice, I must remember that for next time when the former SED-people of "Die Linke" show up in the Bundestag. :D Those are real nerve-killers, and listening to them reminds me of the sound and phrasing of "Aktuelle Kamera" :lol:

(AK was the official major TV news program in the GDR.)

[Trex]

The thing that irritates is that most are financed by tax revenue when there are real artists left without support.
Only that I do not know how to separate support for good things from support for bad things. you do not know in advance what a person is going to do when launching a project.

But maybe one could at least stop giving a person that screwed it up the last three times the money to mess it up a fourth time.
The Canadian govt has introduced legislation which would give the Minister in charge of such things the right to refuse the current govt subsidy to Canadian filmmakers if the work in question is deemed not to be in the public interest, eg mere pornography or containing excessive violence.

The artistas are - predictably - up in arms, screaming about 'censorship' - which this is of course not. The art world would still be able to produce whatever it wanted to, but the govt would not subsidize, oh, take an extreme example, a movie about somebody urinating on a Koran. (At present, provided that there was sufficient Canadian content, such a flick would automatically be entitled to taxpayer funds.)

Oh, the artistic angst! The shame of it all! How unfair!

How delightful!

[bradclark1]

"Former enemies" :lol: Nice, I must remember that for next time when the former SED-people of "Die Linke" show up in the Bundestag. :D Those are real nerve-killers, and listening to them reminds me of the sound and phrasing of "Aktuelle Kamera" :lol:

(AK was the official major TV news program in the GDR.)
Is it still a little touchy regards employment & economics etc. between the former east and west Germany's though?

[Skybird]

"Former enemies" :lol: Nice, I must remember that for next time when the former SED-people of "Die Linke" show up in the Bundestag. :D Those are real nerve-killers, and listening to them reminds me of the sound and phrasing of "Aktuelle Kamera" :lol:

(AK was the official major TV news program in the GDR.)
Is it still a little touchy regards employment & economics etc. between the former east and west Germany's though?
Yes, but not generally with every person. It depends, last but not least wether you are a winner or looser from unification. But there are massive differences in unemployment rates, and general perspectives. Whole regions in the East are shutting down, have lost all middle- and young-aged population, and only the oldest 15 or 20% of the original population are still living in a given city. Another problem: young women go West by marriage or by taking job options, but young men only can go West if they can compete on the Western job market, which often is not the case: and marriage is no option for them to escape, like it is for the girls. Eastgermany is the one region in europe where the ratio between males and females is more distorted and towards males than anywhere else, and that has demographic and social consequences, it prvents family-forming, which means a dysfunctional society as well, and leaves a generation of males behind that have learned one thing: that they are loosers. The lack of motivation and frustration inside society is enormous. Right wing policies become very popular here, as well as mourning that the wall is gone and the better days of the GDR are no more there. Infrastructure slowly breakes down, and medical caretaking as well. It becomes a problem to keep such systems operational if only so few people are still living in such a critical region. It costs money, but the state does not get any revenue in return. But what to do? Enforced resettlement? It is a big problem - and most politicians do not touch it at all, for fear to burn their fingers.

Add to this future economic perspectives and the demographic developement of giving the old more and more voting power and the young becoming victims of needing to pay for that - and you watch at what can only be described as a most explosive developement. I cannot rule out in principle that in 20, 30 years things blow up over here.

[Etienne]

The Canadian govt has introduced legislation which would give the Minister in charge of such things the right to refuse the current govt subsidy to Canadian filmmakers if the work in question is deemed not to be in the public interest, eg mere pornography or containing excessive violence.

The artistas are - predictably - up in arms, screaming about 'censorship' - which this is of course not. The art world would still be able to produce whatever it wanted to, but the govt would not subsidize, oh, take an extreme example, a movie about somebody urinating on a Koran. (At present, provided that there was sufficient Canadian content, such a flick would automatically be entitled to taxpayer funds.)

Um, if you don't call that censorship, then what is? Seriously, the way the bill is worded, everything is at the minister's discretion. Movie against the war in Afghanistan? Ah, we're down in the poll. Not in public interest. Pro-Québec movie? Not in public interest. Movie about a right-wing dystopia that its too close to home? Not in the public interest. Movie where someone gets an abortion and the world doesn't come crashing down on her? Not in public interest.

And trust me, the federal government HAS tried to scrap project it didn't approve of in the past. 10 février 1837; Dans une Galaxie Pres de Chez Vous (Not enough canadian content, since it was a space-based sci-fi show. They stuck canadian flags and maple leafs everywhere on the uniforms, and got their fundings back... Figures)

Yeah, the artists are up in arm. And they'd better be.

[Trex]

OED defines 'censor' as the suppression, in whole or part, of books, plays, films , letters, news, etc. It defines the verb 'suppress' as "use force or authority to make cease, quell, put an end to an activity or existence of, restrain, withhold or withdraw from publicatuion, keep secret..." In short, if you censor something, you prevent people from writing, painting, filming, etc and/or you prevent them from seeing or hearing it.

China censors things. If you go to the internet in China, certain information (eg the Tiananmen Square Massacre) is blocked - you cannot access it. If you write certain things, you go to jail. If you try to send a video clip on some things, it will be blocked from transmission and you will get arrested. That is censorship.

C-10 will not prevent anybody from writing anything, painting anything, filming anything, saying anything. If somebody wants to make a film on any subject, they are perfectly free to do it; nobody will stop them. If they wish to distribute that film, there will be no penalties. Nobody wishing to view it will be prevented. All C-10 does is prevent the public purse from helping them do it. That is not censorship; it is merely the refusal to support something. There is a big difference.

[Platapus]

The Canadian govt has introduced legislation which would give the Minister in charge of such things the right to refuse the current govt subsidy to Canadian filmmakers if the work in question is deemed not to be in the public interest, eg mere pornography or containing excessive violence.

The artistas are - predictably - up in arms, screaming about 'censorship' - which this is of course not. The art world would still be able to produce whatever it wanted to, but the govt would not subsidize, oh, take an extreme example, a movie about somebody urinating on a Koran. (At present, provided that there was sufficient Canadian content, such a flick would automatically be entitled to taxpayer funds.)

Oh, the artistic angst! The shame of it all! How unfair!

How delightful!

A very good point. It is not censorship when the government does not subsidize art. It is censorship when the government prohibits art.

No one is saying that an Canadian artist can't do their art. They are just saying that the government ain't payin for it.

A very sound policy.

Personally, I feel that the government (USA) should not sponsor/subsidize any art. Let the artists get their sponsorship from corporations or the public.

If their art is good people will pay for it. It it stynks people won't. Thats the way art should work.

We can save a lot of money ditching the NEA.:up:

[Etienne]

C-10 will not prevent anybody from writing anything, painting anything, filming anything, saying anything. If somebody wants to make a film on any subject, they are perfectly free to do it; nobody will stop them. If they wish to distribute that film, there will be no penalties. Nobody wishing to view it will be prevented. All C-10 does is prevent the public purse from helping them do it. That is not censorship; it is merely the refusal to support something. There is a big difference.

Indeed. Free to do it, but unable to - The canadian film industry is in such a position, economically, that the only way for filmmakers to be able to film pretty much anything is to request federal subsidies. So cutting a project's federal funding essentially kills it.

Not to mention the fact that the law can be used to slew cultural production politically. And it opens the door to Sponsorship Scandal II: Gomery's Return.

If the government is going to send money toward culture, it shouldn't be a partisan thing. C-10 allows the insertion of a huge political bias into the country's entire film and television industry.