Your opinions please

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Patrol 2, November/December 1939. I've been assigned to patrol grid BE 67 from my base at Wilhelmshaven. Rather than risking Der Kanal, I decide to take the scenic route up the English coastline. See results below:

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/The_Terrabyte_Pirate/Patrol2A.jpg

Question 1: Well, I'm having fun, but I've only got 3 fish left. I'm normally a stickler for following the orders I'm given, but do you think Uncle Karl will mind me coming home early? I've still got plenty of deck gun ammo, but the weather has been too bad to use it. Is it worth staying out any longer than my fish last?

Here's the list of ships sunk this patrol...

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/The_Terrabyte_Pirate/Patrol2B.jpg

Question 2: Am I wasting eels? Everything under 3000T was sunk with one torp. Both Granvilles were sunk with a salvo of 2, and the ore carrier with a salvo of 3. All were set to impact due to the weather, and no duds. Is this just a very lucky patrol, or should I be more cautious with my torpedoes and save them for the big targets?

Question 3: Patrol so far has netted just over 28,000T. With my 3 fish left I'll hopefully get at least another 5,000T. Is a 33,000T patrol good?

Opinions please?

[Tessa]

Going through der kanal early in the war isn't too bad, nothing like going through Gibraltor. 30k isn't too bad for an average patrol, unless you start attacking warships finding convoy's is the best way to get your average tonnage up. In the early stages of the war you can get away with a lot of things that will decimate you in the later part of the war, namely harbor raiding. Can generally get 30-100k per harbor (one that's decently populated). Loch Ewe is great as there's 2 floating docks there, 2 eels and you bag 65,000 tons.

The extra reknown is worth it imo if you aren't having a good patrol, its not much but every little bit helps.

[predavolk]

1- Uncle Karl will order you home if you use up your torps. With extra gas, I usually take a leisurely route home hoping for some targets and gunnin' weather!

2- You could probably sink a Granville with one forward torp hit, especially in poor weather. In better weather, use the deck gun to finish it off. But it's not awful to use an extra torp. Ore Carriers are big, but in my experience, they sink easily. One torp is usually enough. But I think you're doing very well for all those torp hits- good aiming, and excellent practice for rapid-action, high-pressure convoy shots!

3- I find that my patrols are averaging about 40ishK tons. 33K certainly isn't a bad patrol for the game. A lot has to do with getting lucky and finding good targets or good gunnin' weather. In reality, 33K tons and 8 ships would have been a very good patrol.

4- The English Channel is a piece of cake in bad weather. Just hug the French coast and move through quickly on the surface. In the middle of a storm, you're almost guaranteed safe passage. I've made it through there twice submerged in calmer weather too. Yes, that's risky because of mines, but I move very slowly to evade warships, then stop, then wait for night before moving on the surface again. I once got caught in a running gun battle with a patrol boat and a small surface ship, but that's because I was foolish enough to surface without checking my periscope first. I got away after exchanging gun fire and taking some serious hits.

[Brag]

30,000 tons is a respectable result :up:

[Hanomag]

Aye depending on your realism setting that could be an excellent result!!

Keep up the good work Herr Kaluen! :arrgh!:

[Tessa]

If the weather is favorable make as much use of the deck gun as possible. With some good shots below the waterline a ship can go down pretty quickly saving a torpedo for a juicy target, or for use if the weather is poor. With enough fuel you can go trolling for single merchants by cruising at 7-8 knots in a zig zag pattern. Caleigh is a good port to pottentially sink a juicy large tanker with your remaining torpedos. The defenses are pretty light, just come into it directly south; the area to the west is heavily mined and best way out is the way you came in. Otherwise nice job so far :up:

[TS13]

I have never gone so close to the eastern coastline. I am too scared of mines, I guess.

I usually let tramp steamers go because they are not worth much, but in 1939 I guess you take what you get (because more may not come). I think 33'000 is very good in 1939, when traffic is not so heavy. Well done, Captain!

[Elmer Kosterman]

Here are my humble opinions:

In general, you should think about how you want to play the game, either for realism or for maximum Renown/tonnage. These two goals are not completely exclusive, but there is a trade-off at some point. With that in mind...

Question 1:

In real life, BdU wouldn't have minded at all if you used up your torpedos sinking targets of opportunity on the way to your patrol station, although they probably would have advised against your route as too dangerous. As in the game, you probably would have been ordered home if you used all your torpedos.

With renown in mind, you can patrol your square for 24 hour hours with or without torpedos, and if the weather clears up, you probably have enough fuel to sail around gunning down additional ships for a while, even if this was dangerous to do close to England's coast in real life. There are a few other things to keep in mind:

--You happen to know that undefended ships will be become rarer as the war drags on, so you might strike while the iron is hot.

--If you find a convoy, you're SOL without torpedos.

--The sooner you return to port, the sooner you'll be sent out with a fresh load of fish, especially if your boat hasn't taken any damage. If you need major repairs, you might want to use up some ammo on the way home, but you run the risk of being surprised and sunk.

Question 2: Are you wasting torpedos?

If you're in a type VII, your desciption indicates that you've fired 11 torpedos and scored 12 hits, with 8 ships sunk. Assuming for a minute that you really went 11 for 11, this would still have been absolutely unheard of during the war. There were a lot of duds back then, and a lot of boats came back to port with torpedos to spare. With shooting like that, and targets as plentiful as they are early in the war, you can certainly afford to set a minimun for yourself. Im sure the real captains didn't send a fish at every trawler they came across.

Question 3: Is 33,000 tonnes a good patrol?

It depends. A quick glance at uboat.net tells me that there were forteen u-boats at sea on the day you started your patrol. The most tonnage of any of those patrols was ca. 25,000 and the most ships sunk was 6 (for only 5,000 tonnes total). In this regard, your patrol would have set the bar back then.

If you want to compare yourself to other SHIII players, you're going to find that being stingy with torpedos and ammo can net you over 100,000 tonnes early in the war, not to mention that it's easier to rack up tonnage on low realism settings.

In diesem Sinne

Sink them all!

[Keelbuster]

30k is pretty good. The way to jack it up is to hit convoys and go for tankers. For me, I tend not to fire a torp at something that's ~2k. I'd rather deck gun them if anything. If a small merchant is alone and weather-permitting, I'll take her on at night. If there's two small freighters, I'll torp one, and sink her, so that I can safely deck gun the second. I wouldn't take on two guns vs. my single 88. Everything over 5k I give two torps - one to the bow, one to the midsection. It's a lethal combo for almost every ship.

[GoldenRivet]

The Brit East Coast is a nice hunting ground for the first several months of the war.

but i strongly caution you, several U-boats have been lost to mines in those very areas as early as Spring/summer of 1940... maybe earlier.

the Brits stopped making so many mistakes in that area fairly early on.

traffic in the area was reduced, and more escorts were assigned the area as they became available, but the biggest threat is the shallow water and the mines.

if you get pinned down by ASDIC you have virtually no place to escape to

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

They were all targets of opportunity while moving up the east coast. If I'd had better weather, most of the smaller vessels would have been sunk with the deck gun.

Would anyone here pass by a small/coastal merchant and save the torp for a better target later on, or would you go for it?

I know it's not a realistic patrol.

[Graf Paper]

If you wish to talk realism, according to the "U-Boat Commander's Handbook" you are supposed to aggressively attack the enemy. This means sinking any enemy target you find and not holding your torps for bigger fish to fry.

Personally, I'd take those last three torps you got, sneak into Hartlepool, and sink some of those fat merchies that are moored at the docks there. The only thing you have to worry about is one ASW Trawler that you can easily slip past when you're in his baffles as he patrols in a more or less straight line from north to south and back again.

Since the ships are docked, you can take your time lining up the shots and fire from 2,000 or even 3,000 meters but about 1500 meters gives you better firing angles on some targets you may prefer to hit.

Wait to fire your eels when his back is to you and then slip out at silent running. You ought to be able to rack up another 10,000 tons that way.

Keep your speed to one knot in a VIIB or two knots in a type II or else you'll have that trawler all over you and screaming for help from his buddies.

I used to always raid Hartlepool in 1939-early 1940, every time my patrol took me anywhere near it! :arrgh!:

If you want the renown, make your patrol zone, take out any merchies you find with your DG, weather permitting, and then head for home. I don't recall if you actually have renown subtracted for "failing to obey orders" by not patrolling your assigned zone.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

I've heard it's risky sinking ships that are tied up to dock. You don't always get the credit if the water is too shallow.

[Pikes]

this is that realism vs playability topic again... Vote realism and come back home a hero, youve exceeded your luck rolls of the dice :P

[Sailor Steve]

Harbor raiding is realistic? It happened once.

[Jimbuna]

I've heard it's risky sinking ships that are tied up to dock. You don't always get the credit if the water is too shallow.

If the water is quite shallow, the ship won't sink 'totally', it will probably remain rendered and you'll likely not get the "She's going down" message.

Stay away from Newcastle or HMS Toon will get ya!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Elmer Kosterman]

Yeah, sub commanders couldn't decide on their own to raid a harbor. On the other hand, commanders in SHIII can't recieve orders to do so. If you do go, just be careful. There was a skipper (me) who just last week got sunk in Hartlpool on his second patrol, by a single destroyer. Just lookin' to burn his last two torpedos. Word is, it was the time compression that gave him away.