Question - Torpedos - REALISTIC?

[Grayson02sept1980]

This just crossed my mind yesterday while I was attacking a convoy

How realistic are the torpedo pistols in SH3?

I mean I attacked the convoy and had all torps set with magnetic but two were FaT so I changed them to shallower running depth and impact.

How quick couold this be done on the Boats? I mean I just turn the switch in the F6 screen (or attack scope view) and suddenly the torp is running on an impact pistol/igniter
Realistic?

Did all torps back in those days carry both systems? Magnetic and Impact pistols?
Or were they set up before loading and could not be changed that quick as it is in the game?

Just a thought

[msalama]

Did all torps back in those days carry both systems? Magnetic and Impact pistols?

I _think_ those equipped with both did, but I may be wrong... anyone?

[Sailor Steve]

Someone showed a picture a long time ago (it was during my homeless phase or I would have it to show again) of magnetic and impact pistols being switched, and the picture showed the torpedo on a cradle with the head removed, and they were physically switching them out.

The picture could have been wrong, but if not then it was a major process and not something they did with the flick of a switch.

[magicsub]

i went to the museum and there was a huge big black torpedo and it had switches on it and i recognized them all!!! i tried to turn it on but the swithes did not want to move. this was in a australian war museum

[Sailor Steve]

i went to the museum and there was a huge big black torpedo and it had switches on it and i recognized them all!!! i tried to turn it on but the swithes did not want to move. this was in a australian war museum
Cool! Now go back, take a picture and post it here so we can see too!:sunny:

[trongey]

I've wondered similar things about updating a solution. Did changing the solution on the TDC somehow transmit settings to a torpedo already in the tube? Or did it just provide the settings that someone would apply before loading the tube?

Tony

[Letum]

I know that the electric torps had to be preheated and prepared for at least half a
hour before launch.
The VII could not fire electric torps from the aft tube as it lacked the equipment
needed to heat the torp's batteries.
I am not sure if the same is true of the IX.

[klh]

I've wondered similar things about updating a solution. Did changing the solution on the TDC somehow transmit settings to a torpedo already in the tube? Or did it just provide the settings that someone would apply before loading the tube?

Tony

Now this one I can answer. There were changes during the war, but for the most part, the TDC sent a signal for the gyro angle (and eventually other variables) to the torpedo while it was in the tube using a retractable spindle. This way the firing solution could be fed to the torpedo immediately prior to firing.

[trongey]

I've wondered similar things about updating a solution. Did changing the solution on the TDC somehow transmit settings to a torpedo already in the tube? Or did it just provide the settings that someone would apply before loading the tube?

Tony

Now this one I can answer. There were changes during the war, but for the most part, the TDC sent a signal for the gyro angle (and eventually other variables) to the torpedo while it was in the tube using a retractable spindle. This way the firing solution could be fed to the torpedo immediately prior to firing.

Aha! Thanks.

[Voyd]

I know that the electric torps had to be preheated and prepared for at least half a
hour before launch.
The VII could not fire electric torps from the aft tube as it lacked the equipment
needed to heat the torp's batteries.
I am not sure if the same is true of the IX.

Technically, they didn't have to be heated. They could be launched, but would loose more than half of their range when running 'cold'.

[Grayson02sept1980]

I know that the electric torps had to be preheated and prepared for at least half a
hour before launch.
The VII could not fire electric torps from the aft tube as it lacked the equipment
needed to heat the torp's batteries.
I am not sure if the same is true of the IX.
Technically, they didn't have to be heated. They could be launched, but would loose more than half of their range when running 'cold'.

now I wouldn't dare to say that .. about the distance... you never know how long the torp would really go when the battery is cold cause you have to keep in mind that the water around the torpedo was very cold most times.
So just to make sure the torp would reach its target I would not have fired a cold torpedo

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

From the (very few, alas) pictures and diagrams I've seen, changing pistols was an involved process. A torpedo could be set up with either a contact pistol, a magnetic one, or both.

See here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=819980#post819980) for both some images and descriptions.

[finchOU]

ah...love the realism theads....it is this kind of in depth stuff I want to HAVE to think about when trying to attack a ship.

[Uncle Goose]

I believe I read in Dönitz Memoirs that the crew was not supposed to handle the pistols while on sea. The crew of a certain U-boat disassembled a pistol to see what was wrong with the pistols (this was early in the war when they had serious troubles with the pistols), Dönitz noted that this was not a habit. So it seems that the pistols were set in harbor and weren't easily changed aboard.

[kurtz]

I've just been reading Hoyt's book on American submarines, these were plagued by unreliable magnetic pistols. Apparently some skippers disabled the magnetic pistols whilst they were on patrol, from this I surmise that this was not an easy switch job, yeah I know different torpedoes.

[trongey]

I've just been reading Hoyt's book on American submarines, these were plagued by unreliable magnetic pistols. Apparently some skippers disabled the magnetic pistols whilst they were on patrol, from this I surmise that this was not an easy switch job, yeah I know different torpedoes.
Yeah, when I played SH1 some guys dug up a lot of detail about the US fish. It's a wonder they ever blew anything up:
1) Torps ran about 2m deeper than they were set for.
2) Impact pistols deformed and failed if contact was made near 90deg at high speed (oh, you mean the preferred shot setup?).
3) Magnetic pistols were basically non-functional near they equator ( like, the heart of the Pacific Theatre, doh!).
4) Torps had a weird habit of turning 180deg if they breached in rough seas. At least one confirmed self-sinking.

Tony

[kurtz]

4) Torps had a weird habit of turning 180deg if they breached in rough seas. At least one confirmed self-sinking.

Tony
Hoyt mentioned this too apparantly there was an anti circular running device in the torpedoes, but it was disabled as top brass thought it would be good to shoot hunting destroyers with as the then official US shooting method was to shoot from depth using sonar/guessing.

As you say a wonder they ever bagged anything.

[moscowexile]

In an attempt to answer some of the enquiries posed above, I should like to quote at length an extract from "Blood, Toil, Tears and Folly" (Deighton, Harper Collins, 1993), which extract may shed some light on the technicalities concerning the use of torpedoes in WWII:

"... The whole purpose of submarines was to fire torpedoes. These big G7 - seven metres long - devices were no less complicated than the submarine itself, and, in some respects, exactly like them. They were treated with extraordinary care. Each torpedo arrived complete with a certificate to show that its delicate mechanisms had been tested by firing over a range. It had been transported in a specially designed railway wagon to avoid risk of it being jolted or shaken. One by one, with infinite concern, the 'eels' were loaded into the U-boat.... All through the voyage, each and every eel would be hung up in slings every few days so that the specialists could check its battery charge, pistols, propellors, bearings, hydroplanes, rudders, lubrication points and guidance system.

To make an attack, it was necessary to estimate the course and bearing of the target. Usually, the submarine was surfaced and the captain used the UZO (U-Boot-Zieloptik)...and from it the bearing, range and angle of the target was sent down to the Vorhaltrechner. This calculator sent the target details to the torpedo launch device, the Schuß-Empfänger, and right into the torpedoes, continuing to adjust the settings automatically as the U-boat moved its relative position. By means of these instruments the U-boat did not have to be heading for its target at the moment of launching its torpedo. The torpedo gyro mechanism would correct its heading after exiting the tube. Thus a 'fan' of shots, each on a slightly different bearing, could be fired without turning the boat. This device was coveted by British submarine skippers, who aimed their torpedoes by heading their submarines towards the target."

To go off the topic of this thread, though what I shall quote is certainly no less interesting, Deighton then describes the living conditions of German submariners:

"...There were no bathing facilities, and only one lavatory which could not be used when the submarine dived. When under attack, the lavatory might well be out of action for twenty-four hours. No one shaved and most didn't change even one article of clothing for the entire voyage. The stink of human bodies was mixed with those of oil and fuel. There was also the pervading smell of mould, for in the damp air everything, from bread to log books, went mouldy. The men - mostly young, for only young men could endure the hardship and the stress - were apt to douse themselves in Eau de Cologne to exchange one smell for another."


Mr. Deighton should have written Kölnischwasser instead of Eau de Cologne! And I don't think that His Majesty's Royal Navy submarine commanders would have taken it too lightly being called "skippers" either: "skippers" command tugs and fishing boats!

:hmm: