Interesting article on Merchant Seaman and U-Boats

[danurve]

http://www.barrymerchantseamen.org.uk/articles/BMSww2part1.html

I found this page while researching information on certain cargo for the upcomming RadioLog_Expansion update. Good quote by Churchill at the end. You can almost hear his voice while reading it.

[von hally]

well danurve

churchills speech and the following speech by the government today says it all mate.

one full of admiration and respect....the other full of s***

looking forward to your update

[iambecomelife]

It really makes you wonder how those men went out there, day after day, and kept it up until the war was won. For us it's just a game. With these sailors, it wasn't like they could hit the escape key and restart if things went wrong... :nope:

[Jimbuna]

It really makes you wonder how those men went out there, day after day, and kept it up until the war was won. For us it's just a game. With these sailors, it wasn't like they could hit the escape key and restart if things went wrong... :nope:

Makes me even more proud of my father (84 and still with us) who served in the merchant marine throughout the war. :rock:

[Wreford-Brown]

There's an outstanding book called 'War of the U-boats' by Bernard Edwards (no, not that Bernard!!!). It's primarily a book about the merchant navy and covers a number of single ship and convoy actions from both the U-boat and merchant marine point of view.

Well worth a read, IMHO.

[msalama]

one full of admiration and respect....the other full of s***

Yep :nope: But the author has a brilliant last say on the subject nevertheless, by stating that "without the Merchant Marine and the food and raw materials they brought, there would not have been any 'military operations'". In-effin'-deed!!!

[msalama]

Makes me even more proud of my father (84 and still with us) who served in the merchant marine throughout the war. :rock:

He must have a carp-load of interesting stories concerning that particular side of naval ops I'm sure... ever interviewed the old gentleman about his experiences, and if so, care to share?!

[Slick Rick]

For some reason when I click on the link I only get the first two paragraphs and one repeats itself...anyone else have this??

[moscowexile]

What few people seem to realise now is that every merchant seaman in WWII was a civilian: he was under no military obligation to go to sea; he was just doing his job. Yes, that "job" not only contibuted to, but was, indeed, essential to the allied war effort against the axis powers in Europe, hence merchant ships and their crews were considered to be legitimate targets of military action. And here we come to the thorny question of unerestricted submarine warfare: sinking without warning and refusal to rescue survivors.

The very nature of the U-boot weapon necessitated such tactics as did the very nature of Nazi Germany's enemy, Great Britain. That is why Churchill said after the end of the hostilities that the U-boat threat was the only thing that had seriously worried him during the whole of the hostilities. (Quoted on the frontispiece of the SH3 user's handbook.) As former First Lord of the Admiralty in WWI, Churchill knew what he was talking about: in 1917 British shipping losses in the Atlantic had become so perilously high that Admiral Jellicoe, he who had got a bloody nose in containing the German surface threat in the shape of the Imperial German High Seas Fleet in 1916, informed Lloyd George (the British Prime Minister at that time) that he was ready to throw the towel in, that the war would shortly become unwinnable.

Another often unkown or forgotten point concerning British merchant seamen in WWII is the fact that statistically a merchant seaman (and I repeat: all such seamen were civilians) had the lowest survival rate of all when compared to the survival rates of any other section of allied combatants during World War II.

Another point: as a boy I often used to visit the waterfront at Liverpool. Then, as now, I was fascinated with all matters maritime. Then, but not now, the River Mersey was choc-a-block with ships nearly all bound for or returned from the New World. (One of the liners at that time that I remember well was the Canadian Pacific Lines Empress of Canada.) And also at that time the Mersey estuary was littered with the rusting hulks of ships that had run the Atlantic gauntlet only to be sunk by air attacks whilst waiting to be unloaded in the Liverpool docks.

On the Pier Head at Liverpool is a memorial to those that did not survive the Atlantic run and voyages in other convoys; their names and the names of their ships are all meticulously registered on tablets of bronze; a great many of those names are not English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh: they are Hindu, Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Portuguese, African....

When the war began, Britain's merchant service included 45,000 men from the Indian sub-continent and over 6,000 Chinese, as well as many Arabs. According to the Official History 37,651 merchant seamen died as a result of direct enemy action: the true total that includes deaths indirectly due to the war would be 50,525. (Source: Blood, Toil, Tears, Folly: Deighton, L, HarperCollins 1997.)

And they were all only doing their job when they died: very quickly if they were lucky and agonisingly slowly if not; dying, often mutilated, crippled or burnt, in their open boats upon the storm wracked North Atlantic, where it was seldom anything but cold; going mad whilst slowly and agonisingly suffering from thirst and exposure.

The sea lanes were kept open because, in the final analysis, enough ships were built and there were enough brave men and boys to man them. During the war Britain's Shipping Federation (the recruitment organisation for the British merchant marine, renamed the Merchant Navy after WWI in honour of the valour of merchant marine sailors) was receiving over 100 letters a day from boys (16 was the minimum recruiting age) asking for a job afloat.

They were too young for the fighting forces but old enough to drown in the Atlantic.

[msalama]

An excellent post MoscowExile. Yea, it's an altogether tragic story indeed, isn't it?

I'm getting carried away a bit here and thus digress, but cr4p, I'm still glad this is just a game :-?

[Captain Nemo]

And did you know that a British merchant seaman's pay stopped when his ship was sunk? Although I believe a new law was passed in May 1941 which addressed this outrageous injustice.

Nemo

[moscowexile]

Aye! I remember old sailors regularly beefing about that one.

[Jimbuna]

Makes me even more proud of my father (84 and still with us) who served in the merchant marine throughout the war. :rock:

He must have a carp-load of interesting stories concerning that particular side of naval ops I'm sure... ever interviewed the old gentleman about his experiences, and if so, care to share?!

Theres an amazing and informative thread here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124491&highlight=fathers+grandfathers

I've contributed on # 17, 31, 53 and 62 http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[msalama]

Thank you for the link Jim. Fascinating histories all around. S!

[Jimbuna]

Rgr that matey http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[moscowexile]

Below is possibly one of the most famous British cartoons published during WWII. It appeared in the "Daily Mirror" on March 6th 1942.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Jzec1.jpg

The picture shows a torpedoed seaman adrift on a raft in the Atlantic. The Mirror published this cartoon after the British government had increase the cost of petrol by one penny a gallon. (I think an Imperial gallon is about 4.4 litres. I should imagine that a penny those days would be worth about 2 U.S. cents now.) The cartoon was entitled: "The price of petrol has increased by one penny - official."

The British government, however, took great umbrage over the cartoon: Winston Churchill believed that the picture suggested that the sailor's life had been put at stake to enhance the profits of the petrol companies; in the House of Commons, Herbert Morrison, the Home Secretary, called it a "wicked cartoon"; Ernest Bevin, the Minister of Labour, argued that the cartoon was lowering the morale of the armed forces and the general public.

The cartoonist was Philip Zec (born London 1909 of Jewish émigrés from Imperial Russia- father tailor Simon Zecanovskii). He had been contracted by the "Mirror" to draw a daily cartoon throughout the hostilities. Zec's intended message for the above picture was: "Don't waste petrol - it costs lives!"

Churchill arranged for MI5 to investigate Zec's background, and although they reported back that he held left-wing opinions, there was no evidence of him being involved in subversive activities. The government considered closing down the "Daily Mirror" but eventually decided to let the newspaper off with a severe reprimand.

[Jimbuna]

That was indeed a famous WWII era cartoon.....caused quite a stir at the time.

1 Imperial gallon = 4.546 litres

[Captain Nemo]

I should imagine that a penny those days would be worth about 2 U.S. cents now.

Substantially more in fact. A pre-decimal penny (before 1971) in 1942 taking inflation into account, would be worth 14 new penny's today. At current exchange rates that would make it worth 28 US cents.

Nemo

[moscowexile]

I've just simply lost contact with with how I lived and counted and measured in England some 40 years ago!

I remember the cost of my first pint of bitter: 1/5d. That's "one and five" to the uninitiated, or one shilling and five pence, which in decimal coinage is now about 7p (seven pence or about 14 US cents). The last time I was in the UK some 6 months ago I paid about £1.90 for a pint in Manchester.

When I was a child, we used to call 2/6d ("two and six", i.e. two shillings and six pence) "half a dollar". That meant a dollar (U.S.) was 5/- (five shillings), namely there were $4 to £1. That wasn't true, of course, during my childhood, but pre-WWI, before which war the United Kingdom was "on the gold standard" and after which war the UK was virtually bankrupted, I think the term "half a dollar" meaning 2/6d was a fair approximation.

When I start converting metres to yards here and litres to pints, the locals sometimes begin to mock what they believe to be my English eccentricity: they ("they" being Ivan) shut up, however, when I inform them that the same measurements are used in the U.S.A., Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc.

[Captain Nemo]

1942 was a long time ago and inflation has taken it's toll so not an easy one to work out. I was nine years old when decimalisation took place and I always remember my mum saying that prices would go up as a result and I suppose they did what with rounding up etc.

I remember 2/6d being called 'half a crown' and remember my mum calling five shillings a 'dollar'. The other monetary term often used was a 'guinea' which was 21 shillings. Ah, the memories are flooding back!

Nemo

[Jimbuna]

1942 was a long time ago and inflation has taken it's toll so not an easy one to work out. I was nine years old when decimalisation took place and I always remember my mum saying that prices would go up as a result and I suppose they did what with rounding up etc.

I remember 2/6d being called 'half a crown' and remember my mum calling five shillings a 'dollar'. The other monetary term often used was a 'guinea' which was 21 shillings. Ah, the memories are flooding back!

Nemo

Don't forget the farthing, halfpenny, penny, threepence, sixpence, the Churchill Crown etc. etc. ;)