Lusitania: Murder on the Atlantic

[Stealth Hunter]

Really good program the BBC had on last year. I believe the Discovery Channel also put this on when the 92nd anniversary rolled around. It's got a couple of notable actors, and it makes you think a bit deeper into the subject (though it does have propaganda against Germany, even suggesting that the knew that they were . There are ELEVEN parts, but I'm not going to put links up to them all. This is the first part, so work your way on from there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KhqZ1mduNo&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KhqZ1mduNo&feature=related)

My personal thought on the ship is that she was carrying munitions during the time of her sinking. Dr. Robert Ballard, who discovered the RMS Titanic in 1985, has concluded that coal dust igniting is EXTREMELY unlikely (which was originally proposed by several people and researchers). The film reinforces this idea, but Britain has continued to deny it, or so I've read over the years. We'll likely never know, as the bulk of the wreck has been smashed to bits. In fact, the British navy used the wreck site as a depth charge training area, and there are STILL unexploded charges around the wreck that are STILL very active and very deadly.

[elanaiba]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

Germany declared the seas around the British Isles a war zone. Effective as of February 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_18), Allied ships in the area would be sunk without warning. This was not wholly unrestricted submarine warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_submarine_warfare), since efforts would be taken to avoid sinking neutral ships.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#cite_note-5)

Lusitania was scheduled to arrive in Liverpool on March 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_6), 1915 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1915). The Admiralty issued her specific instructions on how to avoid submarines. Despite a severe shortage of destroyers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers), Admiral Henry Oliver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Oliver) ordered HMS ships Louis (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_Louis&action=edit&redlink=1) and Laverlock (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_Laverock&action=edit&redlink=1) to escort Lusitania, and took the further precaution of sending the Q ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_ship) Lyons (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=HMS_Lyons&action=edit&redlink=1) to patrol Liverpool Bay. Captain Dow of Lusitania, not knowing whether Laverock and Louis[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#cite_note-6) were actual Admiralty escorts or a trap by the German navy, evaded the escorts and arrived in Liverpool without incident.


On April 17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_17), 1915 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1915), Lusitania left Liverpool on her 201st transatlantic voyage, arriving in New York on April 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_24). A group of German–Americans, hoping to avoid controversy if Lusitania were attacked by a U-boat, discussed their concerns with a representative of the German embassy. The embassy decided to warn passengers not to sail aboard Lusitania before her next crossing.


The Imperial German embassy placed this warning ad in 50 East Coast newspapers, including those in New York. This ad was prepaid and requested to be put on the paper's travel page a full week before the sailing date. However, even though the ads were sent to newspapers in time for the requested deadline, the State Department of the United States intervened by raising the specter of possible libel suits. The ads, intended by the German government to save American lives, were to appear in only one newspaper, the Des Moines Register (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Des_Moines_Register). It has been argued (without any historical evidence) the actions taken by the U.S. government were taken to ensure the U.S. would become embroiled in WWI as the killing of innocent women and children by Germany would stir popular opinion against the Central Powers.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#cite_note-7)



Lusitania departed Pier 54 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_54) in New York on 1 May 1915. The German Embassy in Washington had issued this warning on 22 April (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_22).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#cite_note-8)
NOTICE! TRAVELLERS intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies; that the zone of war includes the waters adjacent to the British Isles; that, in accordance with formal notice given by the Imperial German Government, vessels flying the flag of Great Britain, or any of her allies, are liable to destruction in those waters and that travellers sailing in the war zone on the ships of Great Britain or her allies do so at their own risk. IMPERIAL GERMAN EMBASSY,
Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_D.C.) April 22, 1915

[nikimcbee]

Interesting film. Those rascals in the Admiralty.:dead: I read the book "Lustitania" by Dianne Preston. It was a very difficult book to read, as it went into detail of the survivours. I could only read so much about drowning babies. I was always under the impression that Schweiger didn't know it was the Lustitannia until after the 1st torpedo hit and he couldn't bring himself to fire a second.

On a lighter note, I got a laugh out of the U-571 footage in the film:roll: :rotfl: . You would think the BBC would atleast spent the money and buy a WWI submarine book and a few German WWI u-boats modals.

[nikimcbee]

...and I was going to blame Tony Blair for the whole incident.

[AG124]

In fact, the British navy used the wreck site as a depth charge training area, and there are STILL unexploded charges around the wreck that are STILL very active and very deadly.

I always read that it was the Irish Navy that depth charged the wreck.

Upon a quick internet search, I see that different sources are saying that either the British or the Irish were responsible for the depth-charging, although the sources discussing the British appear to go into more detail.

[Trex]

Sorry to have missed it. There are a lot on unanswered questions about that event.

As to the Irish Navy depth-charging the wreck, well, maybe, but the Irish Navy was always pretty small, although it did get a few corvettes after WW2. Given that the wreck is 8 miles off the Irish Shore, the RN could have used it and they had a lot more ships capable of carrying depth charges.

A coal dust explosion is certainly possible. At the end of her voyage, her bunkers would not have nearly the amount of coal as when she set sail, leaving any dust left behind more likely to be thrown into the air by an explosion. Although it may be unlikely, there are a lot of things that happen against the odds. After all, Chicken Little only has to be right once. I've investigated explosions myself for which there was no plausible answer under the circumstances.

I seem to recall that the Lusitania and her sister ships had been subsidized by the British govt, both as a mail carrier and as an auxilliary cruiser (her decks being reinforced to mount 6 inch guns). I believe that current Jane's noted this fact, which would certainly have swayed me had I been U-20's captain.

[Stealth Hunter]

According to Dr. Ballard, coal dust is extremely unlikely, as the area which the explosion occurred in was completely submerged, and the coal bunkers were also filled with water at the time (henceforth, no dust). Not to be offensive or anything, but I'll take the opinion of a man who does this for a living over a regular person (though once again, don't take that offensively).

[Tchocky]

In fact, the British navy used the wreck site as a depth charge training area, and there are STILL unexploded charges around the wreck that are STILL very active and very deadly.
I always read that it was the Irish Navy that depth charged the wreck.
As far as I know, the RN bombed the wreck from the air. I don't know if we depth-charged it or not, sounds plausible.
I was down that part of the country a few years ago, the Old Head of Kinsale is now a bloody golf course!

[bookworm_020]

In fact, the British navy used the wreck site as a depth charge training area, and there are STILL unexploded charges around the wreck that are STILL very active and very deadly.
I always read that it was the Irish Navy that depth charged the wreck. As far as I know, the RN bombed the wreck from the air. I don't know if we depth-charged it or not, sounds plausible.
I was down that part of the country a few years ago, the Old Head of Kinsale is now a bloody golf course!

I remeber one sub crew that wnet down and found an unexploded Hedgehog sticking out of the sea bed at them! I bet they were glad they looked first!

She was carring rifle ammo as part of her cargo, but that was allowed by the rules of war sighed by both parties, it was also stored in a different area to were the torpedo hit.

She could have be armed as a AMC (she did have provision for it, as did her sister) but was unarmed at the time of sinking (The passangers didn't see any guns or gun crews, it would have been pretty hard to hide that from them)

[Trex]

According to Dr. Ballard, coal dust is extremely unlikely, as the area which the explosion occurred in was completely submerged, and the coal bunkers were also filled with water at the time (henceforth, no dust). Not to be offensive or anything, but I'll take the opinion of a man who does this for a living over a regular person (though once again, don't take that offensively).
No offense taken - always good to get new info. (If it matters, I have done post-grad work on explosives and worked in the field for some years.)

Coal dust can indeed explode under the right conditions, but if it was damp (let alone wet), the odds fade off to almost zip.

This is, however, the first time I have heard that the bunkers had been filled with water. Not having seen the comments in question, I will acknowledge that I am at a bit of a disadvantage. However, there would seem to be two ways they could have been flooded. The first would be from the torpedo damage, which would not likely flood them in time to prevent an explosion (if a dust explosion was otherwise possible). The second was that they were deliberately flooded in advance. Possible, but to this affirmed landlubber, that would seem odd. The bunkers were, as I recall, on the same level as the boilers (makes sense for ease of coal movement.) They were indeed below the water line. That's a given. However, even 'watertight' compartments at the time rarely were completely tight and the main coal bunker was immediately beside a cargo hold; any leakage of salt water would have had the potential to damage cargo in there. Moreover, it would cause one unholy mess which would have to be dealt with at some time. Did the show address these thoughts? Not challenging, just initial reactions and wondering if this was covered.