Muslim baptized by pope says life in danger

[sonar732]

It wouldn't take brain science to figure that out. I commend him for his personal decision.

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A Muslim author and critic of Islamic fundamentalism who was baptized a Catholic by Pope Benedict said on Sunday Islam is "physiologically violent" and he is now in great danger because of his conversion. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080323/wl_nm/pope_muslim_dc)

[Skybird]

Three actively running Islam-threads may be a test to mod's patience. Let's keep it together.

[DeepIron]

Geez... ya think so? These people kill cartoonists few cryin' out loud...:nope:

[Tchocky]

These people.


Anyway, if I was switching religions I can't say Catholicism would be in the running.

[DeepIron]

These people. What?

Anyway, if I was switching religions I can't say Catholicism would be in the running. Personally, I don't think there is a "religion" on the planet that is correct...

[Happy Times]

They have been pushing for a conflict with the Catholic church, seems they have gotten their wish.

[DeepIron]

"Sherman, set the Way Back machine for 1095 A.D. We're going on a Crusade."

[Happy Times]

"Sherman, set the Way Back machine for 1095 A.D. We're going on a Crusade."

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/images/pics/kingdom1.jpg

:rotfl:

[Stealth Hunter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHvynYvtl40

Saladin! Huzzah!:rock:

Seriously, Saladin was perhaps one of the greatest men of the Crusades. When he died, he had given over 3/4 of his treasury to the poor (and the man was EXTREMELY rich; so rich I can't even describe it). There wasn't even enough to pay for a vault for his body. If that's not selflessness, then I don't know what is.

Islam itself isn't the problem. In fact, it's actually a very beautiful religion. PEOPLE are the problem. Don't blame the creation, blame the creator. I personally think the entire globe would be better off if religion was destroyed entirely because I think it causes more problems that it solves AND I also believe that the chance of us being selected in the grand scheme of the universe to uphold the message of God is just ridiculous. The universe is infinite, and WE for some mysterious reason are chosen to spread the "good news"? Bah. It's all a bunch of crock. The only reason why we think we're special is because we humans think that we're the only things in existence in this endless gulf of space and that's because we've never known anything other than ourselves. We don't think things out... PEOPLE are dumb, stupid, panicky, and we should know it. 1,500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was flat. 300 years ago everybody KNEW that our solar system was the only thing that existed... imagine what we'll know tomorrow.

Three actively running Islam-threads may be a test to mod's patience. Let's keep it together.

Indeed...

[Skybird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHvynYvtl40

Saladin! Huzzah!:rock:

Seriously, Saladin was perhaps one of the greatest men of the Crusades. When he died, he had given over 3/4 of his treasury to the poor (and the man was EXTREMELY rich; so rich I can't even describe it). There wasn't even enough to pay for a vault for his body. If that's not selflessness, then I don't know what is.

Islam itself isn't the problem. In fact, it's actually a very beautiful religion. PEOPLE are the problem. Don't blame the creation, blame the creator.
As you expect, I totally must object that. Islam makes and forms the thinking of people, it eductaes them from childhood on. And the result I see: fatalism, stagnation, a certain type of arrogance against all others, conquest, intolerance. Islam IS the problem. the Quran suffering from very lacking authenticity, and massive inner contradictions that nevertheless are accepted and waved off as unimportant. there is no use in nice-talking it and covering it up, SH. And where Islam turns violently agianst others, it is in correspondence with Muhammad's teaching, and muhammad acted like that all his life, and after his death, Islam launched the most successful military offensive against all world in the history of mankind, leading it to Spain in just 83 years, leading into the heart of France, to all Soiuthern europe, all northern coast of Africa, destryoing Perisa, almost destroying Indian culture as well. Where Christians turn violent in conquest - it is in violation with Jesus' teachings.

I personally think the entire globe would be better off if religion was destroyed entirely because I think it causes more problems that it solves AND I also believe that the chance of us being selected in the grand scheme of the universe to uphold the message of God is just ridiculous. The universe is infinite, and WE for some mysterious reason are chosen to spread the "good news"? Bah. It's all a bunch of crock. The only reason why we think we're special is because we humans think that we're the only things in existence in this endless gulf of space and that's because we've never known anything other than ourselves. We don't think things out... PEOPLE are dumb, stupid, panicky, and we should know it. 1,500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago everybody KNEW that the Earth was flat. 300 years ago everybody KNEW that our solar system was the only thing that existed... imagine what we'll know tomorrow.

Three actively running Islam-threads may be a test to mod's patience. Let's keep it together.

Indeed...

Saladin - also was a ruler with an iron fist, by that brutality he was seen as a great defender of Islam. He executed some of the most promising possible reformists and thinkers in all Islam'S history. And history books tell us that there is a encripture at his grave saying "Er säuberte die Erde vom Schmutz der Ungläubigen" (He cleaned the earth of the dirty infidels). I must laugh how much this figure of history is mystified and glorified not only in Islam, but in the West as well, even Goethe and intitially Voltaire fell for their romantic fanatsy abiout the man, although Voltaire later turned against Islam with determination. On the other hand - the same was done with Muhammad, too, and if you look at the historical Muhammad, you can't get the two together. Saladin also used murder and betrayal in his younger years to support his rise to power. the only really positive thing about him that could be said is that he did not retaliate the way the Crusaders did when capturing Jerusalem: where the europeans commited a massacre, he let the inhabitants live - in that, the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" is correct. The rest of the film is very much fictional only, although the names did exist, Happy Times! ;) (and yes, I liked the directurs cut of the movie very much).

The splitted image of Saladin is exactly illusztratin the two faces of Islam, of which you must see BOTH to really understand what you are dealing with. The quran is filled with sweet words - but also with many things that relativise them. Saladin may have been generous - but only when you were following Islam to the word. Islam talks of tolerance - but only when you accpet to live in an inferior state yourself, as a dhimmi, accepting systemtical discrimination and no equal law protection and when you pay protection money. It talks of peace - but only peace there is if Islam is not put in question by something non-Islamic existing. Short, all these nice solunding words are very well as long as it goes all to the will of Islam. where you reject Islam, it calls it a case of self-defense to destroy what is not submitting to it, that way we infidels are the eternal agressors and forever will be responsible for the prevention of peace in the world. You Jews and Chriostians at this board still are relatively well off - people like me are called for to be killed, since we do not even belong to the three communities of the book.

[Skybird]

I almost forgot that detail, islam prefers jews and christians because since they believe, then they can be converted. An atheist is pure evil :lol:
You mean - I'm even less than a woman...? :huh:

:-j

[sonar732]

I almost forgot that detail, islam prefers jews and christians because since they believe, then they can be converted. An atheist is pure evil :lol: You mean - I'm even less than a woman...? :huh:

:-j

To hell with you Sky...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[bradclark1]

I have a simplistic opinion on Islam/Christianity. To me Islam is no different then Christianity was during the inquisition period. The difference is that Christianity was still able to civilize and modernize it's thoughts. Islam is incapable of modernizing because they completely destroy anyone and anything that even attempts to modernize from the Mohammedan age.

[Skybird]

I have a simplistic opinion on Islam/Christianity. To me Islam is no different then Christianity was during the inquisition period. The difference is that Christianity was still able to civilize and modernize it's thoughts. Islam is incapable of modernizing because they completely destroy anyone and anything that even attempts to modernize from the Mohammedan age.
The total sum under the final line is like you say, yes.

[Rockstar]

I almost forgot that detail, islam prefers jews and christians because since they believe, then they can be converted. An atheist is pure evil :lol:


Prefer Christains and jews? I think not, they prefer Islam anyone outside that thinking will be put to death.

Surah 5. Al-Maidah
51. O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are
friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of
them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.



----------------------------------

And as a Christian I can assure you allah and the God of Israel are not the same.
They believe neither in His cruxcificion, Sonship, Deity of Christ or the Tri-Unity of
the Godhead.

Surah 4. An-Nisaa

157. And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's
messenger They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo!
those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge
thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain,


Surah 9. At-Tauba
29. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not
in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His
messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily,
being brought low.
30. And the Jews say:. Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The
Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the
saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (himself) fighteth against
them. How perverse are they!

Surah 10. Yunus
68. They say: Allah hath taken (unto Him) a son. Glorified be He! He hath no
needs! His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. Ye have no
warrant for this. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?
69. Say: Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed.

Surah 17. Al-Israa (Bani Israel)
111. And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who
hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through
dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.




I tell you the things we are warned of concerning the last days look awfully familiar to how Islam presents itself.

[SUBMAN1]

I bet that conversion just ticks them off! :D

Who is that Saudi Cleric that sounded the alarm bell a week or two ago? Apparently he says 16,000 Muslims per day are converting to Christianity and is incredibly upset. :up: They are all incredibly alarmed at that number too, and plan to kill as many converts as they can! What does it say? It says that 16,000 people per day have seen Islam for the evil it truely is, and have now seen the true light! :up::up::up:

That is 5.84 million of them per year. At that rate, Islam is dying a slow death.

-S

PS. Oops! I was wrong! THat is 16,000 each day in 'Africa' alone!

[SUBMAN1]

Here is an article on it:

Islam in Fast Demise

In Africa Alone Everyday, 16,000 Muslims Leave Islam


By Ali Sina
Hitler said if a lie is repeated often enough and long enough, it would come to be perceived as truth. One such lie often repeated is “Islam is the fastest growing religion”.



Despite the fact that Muslims by virtue of being poor and uneducated are much more reproductive than others, Islam as a religion is not growing but dying fast.



More and more Muslims are discovering that the violence evinced by some of their coreligionists is not an aberration but is inspired by the teachings of the Quran and the examples set by its author. Muslims are becoming disillusioned with Islam. They find out that the mechanistic ritual of praying five times per day, reciting verses that they do not understand and indeed mean nothing, getting up at taxing hours of the morning and abstaining from food and water until the sunset are not means to becoming more spiritual but are instruments to control their mind. These enlightened Muslims no more heed to the fear mongering verses of the Quran that threaten to burn them and roast them in the fires of hell if they dare to think and question the validity of that book.



Every day thousands of Muslim intellectuals are leaving Islam. They find Islam inconsistent with science, logics, human rights and ethics. Millions of Iranians already have left Islam. The enlightened Muslims of other nationalities are not far behind. This is the beginning of a mass exodus from Islam. It is a movement that is already in motion and nothing can stop it.



However the exodus from Islam is not reserved to the intellectuals but also the average Muslims are finding that Islam is not the way to God but to ignorance, poverty and wars. They are leaving Islam to embrace other religions especially the Christianity.



Perhaps it is best to listen to the truth coming from the mouth of the horse. The Internet site aljazeera.net published an interview with Ahmad Al Qataani أحمد القطعاني An important Islamic cleric who said: “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."



What Muslims say among each other, is not the same thing that they say for the consumption of the Westerners.


These are huge numbers. If this trend continues we can expect to see Islam become insignificant in Africa in just a few decades. This is good news for those who are concerned about the on going slavery in Africa and the prospects of war and genocide.



In fact with the weakening of Islam, we can hope to see peace in many war-ridden parts of the world including Palestine. By now it should be clear that any road map to peace between Israel and Palestine will be blocked by the Islamists and the terrorists. Peace in Middle East is not possible as long as Islam is the ideology of the masses.



It is important that we realize that this terrorism that is threatening the peace of the world and these wars that bleed the Muslim nations are not economically motivated but are they are hate motivated. They are religious wars. The weakening of Islam means peace for mankind.



Al Qataani and al Jazeera Network were alarmed by these huge numbers of Muslims leaving Islam, but humanity must rejoice over these numbers. The weakening of Islam means the triumph of mankind.


The following is part of the transcript of Al Jazeera's Interview with Al Qataani translated to English. Here is the original transcript in Arabic (http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina31103p2.htm)

(http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina31103p2.htm)
This interview is also posted here (http://web.archive.org/web/20040202063257/http://www.aljazeera.net/programs/shareea/articles/2000/12/12-12-6.htm)

Maher Abdallah:
Dear viewers, peace of Allah be upon you, greetings and welcome to a new episode of the program Islamic Law and Life.

Our topic this evening will be Christianization in the Dark Continent ... Africa. For after Islam was the religion of the majority, the great majority of that continent, the number of Muslims now is no greater than a third of the population. This is taking into consideration, of course, that a large portion of this group are Arab Muslims. No doubt that the missions of evangelization and Christianization played a great role in this demographic shift of Muslims in the continent.

To discuss this topic, it is my pleasure to introduce today a man who is an expert on the issue of evangelization and Christianization in Africa, even though he will concentrate on the issue of Christianization first and foremost…. Sheikh Ahmad Al Qataani; the president of The Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, which is an institution specializing in graduating imams and Islamic preachers.

Sheikh Ahmad, welcome to you on the program.

Ahmad Al Qataani:
Greeting to you.

Maher Abdallah:
If we start by inquiring about your strict stance against the Christian missions in Africa, don’t the followers of every religion have the right to seek new converts, exactly as you train and graduate young Muslims to propagate Islam?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
I seek refuge in Allah the Seer, the Knower, from the stoned devil. In the name of Allah the Merciful the Beneficent. Thanks to Allah the One, the Only, the Permanent One, who did not give birth nor was born, to whom no one was equal. I bear witness that there is no God but Allah who has no partners, and I bear witness that our master Muhammed – Allah’s prayers and peace be upon him - is his messenger and seal of prophets; Allah prayers be upon him and his brothers the prophets and messengers and their families.

The question that you pose is a result of not comprehending the difference between the concept of Christianization and the concept of evangelism.

The concept of evangelism: is inviting the non-Christians to the Christian or Nazarene religion, and this is the right of every Christian and the right of every believer to call others to his faith. However, we are talking about a different matter; which is Christianization. Christianization means the following: preparing plans, and executing these plans and evolving these plans to change Muslims into Christians by taking advantage of the ignorance and poverty (of the people) and whatever necessitates from similar circumstances.

So, we are faced with the issue of taking advantage of circumstances, taking advantage of humanitarian needs, taking advantage of the lack of education for example, that these people (missionaries) use to take Muslims out of their religion.

Maher Abdallah:
Fine. This is a big and dangerous phrase. Taking advantage of poverty, of ignorance, of lack of education, of some need is something that a Muslim can also be accused of. So if you don’t back up what you say with examples, with references, your words remain in the air without much weight to them.

Ahmad Al Qataani:
The reality is that these words say a lot less than they should. As we said in the beginning, everyone has the right to invite others to his religion; this is what is known as evangelism (or proselytizing). As for Christianization, no one has the right to take Muslims out of their religion, and you asked for references and the references are too numerous.

Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa’s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century. On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

As to how that happened, well
.there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity
These numbers are very large indeed …..

Maher Abdallah (interrupting):
Hold on! Let me clarify. Do we have 6 million converting from Islam to Christianity or converting from Islam and other religions?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
Great (question)! The other religions are not placed on the list of Christianization; rather they are placed on the list of evangelization. The other religion in Africa is paganism; so it’s Islam, Christianity or paganism. There isn’t something similar to Asia for example where you have Buddhism or Zoroastrianism. In Africa it is just these three, so if you talk about Christianization then it targets the only other heavenly religion which is Islam. As for paganism, those people worship animals and planets and the like.

Maher Abdallah:
So 6 million Muslims a year convert?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
Every year ….. In the African nations this century a tragedy happened. Take for example what happened in Ethiopia. Ethiopia is an Arab nation and I am not saying a muslim nation. If any student looks up the word Habasha (Ethiopia) in the book Ocean Dictionary written by Al-Fairuz Abady, he will find that the word Habashat means “people of different tribes” and this is what happened. Ethiopia was a place where Arabs from different tribes would go to live for a while. We all know that Islam entered Ethiopia before Islam entered the city of Medina. We all know that AL-Najashy (the ruler of Ethiopia) was a Muslim. It is mentioned by Al-Darkatny in his biography of the prophet – Allah’s prayer and peace be upon him – that during the month of Rajab in the 9th year of the Hijra (Muslim calendar) that the prophet said to his companions: “Rise up and pray on your brother Al-Najashy.” From that year on the practice of praying on the absent was established. Therefore from the time of the prophet – Allah’s prayer and peace be upon him – Islam entered Ethiopia. So what has happened to Ethiopia?

What happened is that in the days of Emperor Hela Silasi who used to force Muslims to bow to the Christian, and if he refused then he was whipped 45 lashes and jailed between 2 and 5 years. In the year 1948, a massacre occurred at the hands of the Amharic tribes; the Amharic being Christians and collaborators, who continued to slaughter Muslims for 7 months and perform the most horrific acts imaginable. For example they deprived them from the most basic human rights, to the point that they mutilated the male Muslim’s reproductive organs so that no more Muslim children would be born. Ethiopia was rewarded after all these horrific acts; rewarded by being made the head quarters of the African Unity League.

Let us move to another location in Africa, let it be Nigeria. Nigeria is known by Muslims by the name of the Land of Takror. Nigeria was founded at the beginning of the last century by the British, and many Islamic sources mention it’s name as the Land of Tekror. There is even a letter by the reciter Suyuti, who died in the year 911 Hijri, where the title is: Opening the blessed request and relating the hidden openly to the questions of the people of Takror. So there was an established relationship, and they used to send questions to the scholars of Islam, so this letter (of questions) was sent from one of the sheikh scholars of Nigeria that was called Takror to the Muslim scholar AL Suyuti in Egypt and he in turn responded and the contents of this letter are published and printed and is found in the book “The collection Islamic decrees”.

Nigeria’s population is 120 million people, 70% of whom are Muslim. In the 1960’s a British missionary came and declared that he will Christianize North Nigeria, the majority of whom are Muslim. As a result, Ahmad Banulo (from the leaders of the Msulims) was forced at the time to move him to Lagos the capital. As a result the butcher Arorese, that was present at the time, eliminated all the Muslim rulers and killed Ahmad Banulo, why? Because he merely dared to move this missionary who declared that he wishes to Christianize North Nigeria.

In another country, Zanzibar, is an Arabic African nation and I am not saying Muslim. Zanzibar was always connected to the Sultanate of Oman (in the Persian Gulf). Concerning Zanzibar, there was a priest by the name Julius Niriry, president of Tanzania, who annihilated 20,000 Muslims (male and female) with a military force lead by a chicken thief. This thief was imprisoned for being accused of stealing chickens; he was released and asked to command the military brigade that annihilated 20,000 Muslims.

Maher Abdallah:
My dear viewers welcome back to this episode where we are speaking about the topic of Christianization in the African continent and we are speaking with the Sheikh who is observing and following this issue, as each hour Islam loses just under 700 Muslims who join the Christian religion which leads us to the number of 6 million Muslims every year.

Our sir, you mentioned that there are advantages being taken of necessities: poverty, ignorance; what you mentioned then are waves of elimination, waves of religious eradication, and there is no need to call is racial eradication….. However, let us go back to the topic necessity and exploitation. This may have all been in the past; the military expeditions that you spoke of were all in the beginning or middle of the last century, but what is happening today in regards to exploiting necessities?

Ahmad Al Qataani:
What I wanted to say is that these military expeditions and wars paved the way for what we are seeing today; converting 6 million Muslims every year did not happen from nothing, but was a result of what I mentioned earlier.

As for the topic of necessity exploitation, then a nation like Somalia, whose population is 9.5 million people, are all Muslim without exception. There are no Christians or pagans. And if you did find any then they are an insignificant number that are not even on official statistics. A Belgian missionary by the name of Sabeh came to Somalia and purchased 30,000 Muslim youth, he took advantage of their parents poverty, and we all know the terrible situation that Somalia is going through now and what it went through a few years ago. This is taking advantage of a humanitarian need that any human can go through.

[SUBMAN1]

Converting to christianism, seeing the true light ? I almost pissed my pants. Converting from a religion to another religion doesn't lead a man anywhere, quiting all that BS does :up: :down: Lets teach are children that they are nothing more than worm food. This is the source of countless anxieties and phycological disorders. People of religion have been proven to be more content with their lives, do better at education, and have much fewer phycological disorders than those who do not have religion.

In essence, regardless of how you feel, there is undeniable evidence to suggest that religion holds together the fabric of society. Remove religion, and your society will die out. Study Quebec for examples.

Edit : I'd like to know the source of that last "article", the whole thing sounds funnyThe interview was done on aljazeera.net

-S

[Tchocky]

Lets teach are children

*giggle*

[SUBMAN1]

The interview allright, I can even read it in OV, but the weird article ? Hold up - just googled it and grabbed the first one I saw. Now I don't know what I googled. I'll find it - give me a sec.


Well you seem to be confident about that, so I trust you. Now I have to figure out a way to stop "dying out" myself, crap :-?You do that! :D :up: We wouldn't want you to die out since there would be no one to argue with! :D

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Lets teach are children
*giggle*Oops! 'Our' :D

I type too fast sometimes. Head is way ahead of the hands!

[antikristuseke]

:down: Lets teach are children that they are nothing more than worm food. This is the source of countless anxieties and phycological disorders. People of religion have been proven to be more content with their lives, do better at education, and have much fewer phycological disorders than those who do not have religion.Could you provide a citation for this?

In essence, regardless of how you feel, there is undeniable evidence to suggest that religion holds together the fabric of society. Remove religion, and your society will die out. Study Quebec for examples.Here in Estonia society functions very well without much religious influence, in fact, if memory serves me right Estonia is one of the most aheistic countries in europe, if not the most atheistic one.

Edit : I'd like to know the source of that last "article", the whole thing sounds funnyThe interview was done on aljazeera.net

-S

I think that we are indeed future worm food. Actualy food for bacteria and funguses(fungi?). Maggots are not worms, allso maggots do not eat burried human remains because flies do not get a chanse to lay their eggs on the body.

[DeepIron]

I'm being cremated... no worms, fungi, maggots, cannibals or flesh-eating zombies for me thank you ... :huh:

[silentrunner]

I commend this guy for his bravery. Sometimes I think Islam is somewhat like Scientology. The church of Scientology has become very defensive just like Islam, but the members are not evil. Once you get to know a Muslim they are not as different as we think. So we should not get as mad at the Muslims for this, but rather Islam's higherarchy, and bigot leaders.

[Stealth Hunter]

The interview allright, I can even read it in OV, but the weird article ? Hold up - just googled it and grabbed the first one I saw. Now I don't know what I googled. I'll find it - give me a sec.

We're waiting. Oh, and you might want to check your sources. That article must be old, since I read, not long ago at all, that ISLAM is actually rising, and Christianity is actually depleting.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/assault/rising.html

That's a bit more on the subject. The part about Christianity I heard on CNN, and that was about four months ago. I don't know if they have an article or not, and I'm not going to go looking for one.

[Trex]

That is 5.84 million of them per year. At that rate, Islam is dying a slow death.

There are various estimates of how many Muslims there are in the world, but let’s say for the purpose of this discussion 1 billion, which is kind of in the middle.

5.84 million divided by 1 billion is 0.00584 percent, or 5.84 per thousand (please correct my math if I have dropped a decimal).

Using the CIA World Factbook as a reference, Nigeria has a birth rate of 40.2 / 1,000 (not all Muslims, to be sure). Iran’s birth rate is 16.57 / 1,000, Iraq’s 41.44 and Saudi Arabia’s 29.1 / 1,000. (Just for comparison, Canada’s is 10.74, that of the USA 14.16 and that of the UK 10.67.)


Even if the 16K/day is in Africa alone and even recognizing that those are just some of the Islamic nations, it's unlikely that the religion as a whole is 'dying a slow death'. It's growing at a fairly substantial rate in terms of the numbers of adherents.

[SUBMAN1]

That is 5.84 million of them per year. At that rate, Islam is dying a slow death.
There are various estimates of how many Muslims there are in the world, but let’s say for the purpose of this discussion 1 billion, which is kind of in the middle.

5.84 million divided by 1 billion is 0.00584 percent, or 5.84 per thousand (please correct my math if I have dropped a decimal).

Using the CIA World Factbook as a reference, Nigeria has a birth rate of 40.2 / 1,000 (not all Muslims, to be sure). Iran’s birth rate is 16.57 / 1,000, Iraq’s 41.44 and Saudi Arabia’s 29.1 / 1,000. (Just for comparison, Canada’s is 10.74, that of the USA 14.16 and that of the UK 10.67.)


Even if the 16K/day is in Africa alone and even recognizing that those are just some of the Islamic nations, it's unlikely that the religion as a whole is 'dying a slow death'. It's growing at a fairly substantial rate in terms of the numbers of adherents.You forgot to include that part about Africa only having 300 mil muslims at the time of the interview, and it declined from a majority of Africa - which used to have what? 700 mil? DOwn to 300 mil? You tell me. - It doesn't take rocket science to figure out it is dying in Africa. Did you miss that part?

And this is just Africa.

-S

[Rockstar]

The interview allright, I can even read it in OV, but the weird article ? Hold up - just googled it and grabbed the first one I saw. Now I don't know what I googled. I'll find it - give me a sec.

We're waiting. Oh, and you might want to check your sources. That article must be old, since I read, not long ago at all, that ISLAM is actually rising, and Christianity is actually depleting.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/assault/rising.html

That's a bit more on the subject. The part about Christianity I heard on CNN, and that was about four months ago. I don't know if they have an article or not, and I'm not going to go looking for one.

You are correct, there is no denying Christianity is for the first time in history "falling away" as an anti-christ, anti-parallel doctrine takes it's place.

[SUBMAN1]

You are correct, there is no denying Christianity is for the first time in history "falling away" as an anti-christ, anti-parallel doctrine takes it's place.You may be right in that regard, but they have a long way to go if this is going to happen:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.gif

Seems to me that no one even comes close to Christianity.

-S

[Trex]

Let’s not forget that that this is based on an interview with one man. To be sure, he’s an Islamic cleric, but it would seem to basically be his personal conclusions. Moreover, let’s not overlook the possibility that he’s being deliberately alarmist in order to get attention or to sway people back to his faith. (The 'Rally 'round the flag, boys!' pitch has been used by Christians, too, I recall.) Consider that even one conversion is alarming to Muslims; in many countries, it is a capital offense. Finally, perhaps I missed it in the full article, but there is no mention of the reverse ‘flow’ – conversions from other religions to Islam, which needs to be considered.

While I may have misread Subman’s first post, there’s little doubt that Islam, considered worldwide, is growing. I did a google search on ‘world religions’ + growth and looked at the first few hits. You cannot trust the internet completely of course, but they do seem to be pretty consistent. Just as a sample:

www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm). Christianity 32% and dropping, Islam 19% and growing. This is the site SUBMAN’s graph comes from.

http://t21.ca/religions/tp.htm (http://t21.ca/religions/tp.htm). Under trends, this mentions, “A rising growth rate of Islam. Among world religions, Islam ranks as the fastest growing faith. This is demographically driven by higher birth rates in the third world rather than by an increase in conversion growth. Worldwide, the number of Muslims has doubled since 1970 to 1.2 billion adherents.”

Given the numbers, it’s going to be a while before Islam becomes the leading faith, but it’s certainly not dying worldwide.

As to Africa, Wikipedia lists the Islamic population of that continent as 402 million, but admits that it’s hard to be sure due to bad records. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Africa). It also notes that Islam is the largest religion in Africa and is growing. As anybody can change the contents of the wikiworld, one must again use caution, but it is indicative. About.com (http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa120298.htm (http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa120298.htm)) gives the figure at 302 million.

Even if we take the lower figure for African Muslim population, 5.84 million is less than a 2% ‘loss’ rate. One must of course factor in deaths and emigration, but even considering war, AIDS and famine, Africa’s population is growing at a pretty good clip. In short, I would be less than confident that Islam is fading there.

[Zayphod]

Geezzze, all this trouble would be solved if everyone just joined MY church!!!!!


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=670852&postcount=59

[Stealth Hunter]

The interview allright, I can even read it in OV, but the weird article ? Hold up - just googled it and grabbed the first one I saw. Now I don't know what I googled. I'll find it - give me a sec.
We're waiting. Oh, and you might want to check your sources. That article must be old, since I read, not long ago at all, that ISLAM is actually rising, and Christianity is actually depleting.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/assault/rising.html

That's a bit more on the subject. The part about Christianity I heard on CNN, and that was about four months ago. I don't know if they have an article or not, and I'm not going to go looking for one.
Yeah actually the interview is from 2000, talk about fresh news. The article itself sounded like some football club fan magazine.

It's natural for you to attack the article, given some of the past posts you've made on Muslims. Here's Europe's case then. Only about 8 months old:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0726/p01s08-woeu.html


Trex, thank you for that detailed information. I'll be damned if I could find it.