How to get most out of campaign?

[KeldorKatarn]

I just finished my 5th patrol during Weserübung and I notice so far that I have a little too little to do.

I kinda wanted to play spending my time in one grid, the assigned one, and hope that the assignment makes sense.. I'm not so sure anymore.

The first patrol I went home empty, the third too but I managed to attack the british escorts of a neutral convoy near Norway and sunk a cruiser. Now in Weserübung I met the Hipper but let her go to hunt after a merchant in sight which turned out to be a German.

To make a long story short: I'd like to hear a few opinions, advices about how you guys play the campaign? (GMX 2.0 here, if refering to scripted events).

Should I stick to my assigned grid or search around using the convoy map and maybe the map my Operation Spinnennetz (which I found only now, never checked that thread before :P)
Should I have followed the Hipper to Trondheim? (I actually followed her for a while)

Any war stories, suggestions, opinions are welcome.

[Jimbuna]

I just finished my 5th patrol during Weserübung and I notice so far that I have a little too little to do.

I kinda wanted to play spending my time in one grid, the assigned one, and hope that the assignment makes sense.. I'm not so sure anymore.

The first patrol I went home empty, the third too but I managed to attack the british escorts of a neutral convoy near Norway and sunk a cruiser. Now in Weserübung I met the Hipper but let her go to hunt after a merchant in sight which turned out to be a German.

To make a long story short: I'd like to hear a few opinions, advices about how you guys play the campaign? (GMX 2.0 here, if refering to scripted events).

Should I stick to my assigned grid or search around using the convoy map and maybe the map my Operation Spinnennetz (which I found only now, never checked that thread before :P)
Should I have followed the Hipper to Trondheim? (I actually followed her for a while)

Any war stories, suggestions, opinions are welcome.

Get used to searching farther afield because Operation Spinnennetz will be less accurate in GWX2.1.

Following Hipper would have been a good move.

The convoy route map is still good for rough estimation of the routes used.

Tip: Try lurking approx 250km west of Gib.....Always a good spot for catching convoys inward and outward bound. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[TS13]

first, I patrol my assigned grid, but it's never enough. I don't see why I have to go back while I still have torpedoes and fuel (usually I don't find anything there, anyway). So then I proceed to AM51/52/53 or
BE38/39 to unload my torps. I get so many contacts there, that I have never gone to Gibraltar yet.

[KeldorKatarn]

I didn't exactly mean just recommendations for good grids.. more like how you play.. do you follow ships that you know belong to something scripted?

Do you stay in one chosen grid or change during a patrol.. if so how many grids and how long do you stay in one. Stuff like that =)

[filefool]

I just daved the bismarck (i guess) just zwo hours ago. Sunk the king george V and put two torps into the Nelson. Didn't catch up with the bismarck but i think she could handle a single damged BB.

Read the GWX manuals for scripted events and a good book about u-boats for nice places to hunt.

And if that's not enough thrill try to raid a harbour.;)

[Ducimus]

>>How to get most out of campaign?

Why, by transffering to the 2nd flotilla and getting a type9C uboat of course. :rotfl:

[Brag]

>>How to get most out of campaign?

Why, by transffering to the 2nd flotilla and getting a type9C uboat of course. :rotfl:

Ducimus, let's have a drink when we are in Lorient. :up:

[Ducimus]

That might be a little hard for me to do right now; im on patrol in that big fishpond called the Pacific. But if i were to be in this campaign again, id be in a 9c, hunting down tankers in the carribean.

[Madox58]

Not all patrols ended with massive tonnage.
But todays standards, with GPS and all that?
They were kind of abismal per days spent at sea.
In all reality?
Playing a WWII sim should have you going home
without scoreing a single kill.
It happened.
Is it really a sim if you beat the true odds?
Or is it just a game where you want to score the
most?

Each player will determine what they want.
And no one will be wrong.
:up:

[Keelbuster]

Don't go home until you are out of torps, or fuel. Do yer grid, then move on to somewhere you know you'll find action. Get a hot radio operator and wait for contact reports. Plot intercepts. Kill....

[SmokinTep]

I'll make it to my patrol grid, stay for 24 hours, then depending on fuel, etc, plot a course for a known convoy route making sure I will have enough fuel to get home.

[Elmer Kosterman]

If you want to patrol your grid and see more action, make sure you follow shipping lanes on your way to and from. You might also allow yourself to chase contacts reported outside your grid square. I remember a post from a guy that simulated a grid square reassignment from BdU: if he'd had no contacts for a week, he'd roll a die. If an even number came up, he'd remain in his square. If an odd number came up, he'd "assign" himself a new square. How he came up with the new square, I don't know, but you can radomly pick a nearby square.

Privateer is right, many patrols ended with torpedos and without fuel. If you have a dry patrol, try to bring it into the experience... it must be those idiots at BdU... have no idea what it's like out here from behind their desks (it can't be because the British have cracked our code, and are rerouting convoys around us, ;) ).

[melnibonian]

If you are looking for more historical play you should try the Wolves at War Campaign. It's really good fun and it tries to follow historical events

[Jimbuna]

.....and if you get sunk before leaving the Biscay area, don't get annoyed......It happened to many boats (especially 43 onward) http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9708/piratebf4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[predavolk]

I just daved the bismarck (i guess) just zwo hours ago. Sunk the king george V and put two torps into the Nelson. Didn't catch up with the bismarck but i think she could handle a single damged BB.

Read the GWX manuals for scripted events and a good book about u-boats for nice places to hunt.

And if that's not enough thrill try to raid a harbour.;)

Really!?! Did you set it up that way, or was this a random event? :o

[Jimbuna]

I just daved the bismarck (i guess) just zwo hours ago. Sunk the king george V and put two torps into the Nelson. Didn't catch up with the bismarck but i think she could handle a single damged BB.

Read the GWX manuals for scripted events and a good book about u-boats for nice places to hunt.

And if that's not enough thrill try to raid a harbour.;)

Really!?! Did you set it up that way, or was this a random event? :o

Nope.....tis already scripted into the game.........but they will respawn shortly after/if you sink them :lol:

[moscowexile]

As regards the lust for action and the thrill of the chase whilst playing this simulation, I think that it should be realised that in reality many U-boats spent many a patrol without ever sighting their prey: Atlantic calm days and clear days are not numerous and lookouts, even German lookouts, were not always alert.

I have recently read volume one of Len Deighton's "Blood, Tears and Folly - An Objective Look at World War II". In this work, in which Deighton deals at length with the early stage (1939-1940) of the Battle of the Atlantic, the author states:

"Always we must remember the speeds at which the opposing units could travel. It has been nicely depicted by a historian who suggested that we think of the Atlantic in terms of European distances: a U-boat commander in Vienna is told to attack a convoy in London. On the surface he can move at the speed of a pedal cycle, submerged he will go at approximately walking pace. Then we understand why convoys escpoed intact, despite the men of B-Dienst."

I have been trying to find the historian whom Deighton alludes to in the above quotation, but to no avail.

[Jimbuna]

As regards the lust for action and the thrill of the chase whilst playing this simulation, I think that it should be realised that in reality many U-boats spent many a patrol without ever sighting their prey: Atlantic calm days and clear days are not numerous and lookouts, even German lookouts, were not always alert.

I have recently read volume one of Len Deighton's "Blood, Tears and Folly - An Objective Look at World War II". In this work, in which Deighton deals at length with the early stage (1939-1940) of the Battle of the Atlantic, the author states:

"Always we must remember the speeds at which the opposing units could travel. It has been nicely depicted by a historian who suggested that we think of the Atlantic in terms of European distances: a U-boat commander in Vienna is told to attack a convoy in London. On the surface he can move at the speed of a pedal cycle, submerged he will go at approximately walking pace. Then we understand why convoys escpoed intact, despite the men of B-Dienst."

I have been trying to find the historian whom Deighton alludes to in the above quotation, but to no avail.

I would highly recommend the two volume work 'Hitler's U-boat War by Clay Blair :up:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-U-Boat-War-Hunters-1939-1942/dp/0679640320/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206034893&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-U-Boat-War-1942-1945-Library/dp/0679640339/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206034893&sr=8-5

[Gezoes]

I can vouch for that. I'm reading the first part now.

Excellent book!

[Jimbuna]

I can vouch for that. I'm reading the first part now.

Excellent book!


http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9026/wolfthumbsuprw5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[mr chris]

BBW, Jim and all others will vouch for my love of this spot.
AM52 :arrgh!:

[Col. Caldwell]

BBW, Jim and all others will vouch for my love of this spot.
AM52 :arrgh!:

:hmm: This grid is always mentioned in some shape or form around here.:p I try to avoid the AM grid. The storms there can be a bit of a pain, though useful for surface travel in the early years of the war. BF13/15 is where I go to pick up some good tonnage and some visits to BE39 for the tankers.

[Jimbuna]

BBW, Jim and all others will vouch for my love of this spot.
AM52 :arrgh!:

Yep....that be his own personal pond http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9678/gwx21gifuj3.gif

[deepboat]

Half way through Part 1 "The Hunters", a very good read. Wish some more pics were included. Am trying to find some of their earlier concepts like the UXI cruiser and the U-A and other boats which were designed but never built.

[Jimbuna]

Half way through Part 1 "The Hunters", a very good read. Wish some more pics were included. Am trying to find some of their earlier concepts like the UXI cruiser and the U-A and other boats which were designed but never built.

There are books out there which show fine depictions of what was planned but you may want to try some websites such as:

http://uboat.net/types/projects.htm

[deepboat]

I Googled u boat XI cruiser and it brought me to combatsim.com, interesting read indeed!

[emtmedic005]

If you want to get alot out of your patrol/campaign then you have to put in alot of extra effort. Lets say BDU gives your a patrol grid of AM12, you get there and you do your 24 hour patrol and you find no targets. hmmm dont just go home, go to another patrol grid and HUNT for some targets or if ur an experienced skipper who knows the North Atlantic then go to your favorite hunting grounds and start stalking. The best advice i can give to you is to check with Naval Intelligence aka SH3 Forum and talk to your fellow captains. Once you know where the good hunting grounds are then you dont have any good excuses to comming home empty handed.

some personal advice, try sailing down to about 200-250kms west of the Straits of Gibraltar, or the Bay of Biscay (before the Germans Occupied the French ports) or try hunting a little north of Ireland or a little south of Ireland, cause pretty much all of the Allied merchant and warship traffic had to pass through those areas.

Hey i got two questions for those out there. 1- What would happen in real life if a Uboat Captain came home empty handed after a patrol? 2- Im about to start my 8th patrol, its early April 1940, i got the invasion of Norway/Denmark/the Low Countries And France comming up (I cant wait till Dunkirk) Well i still dont have my U-Boat War Badge? I have my 1st/2nd Class Iron Crosses and i have about 230,000 tons sunk.:arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

[KeldorKatarn]

If you want to get alot out of your patrol/campaign then you have to put in alot of extra effort. Lets say BDU gives your a patrol grid of AM12, you get there and you do your 24 hour patrol and you find no targets. hmmm dont just go home, go to another patrol grid and HUNT for some targets or if ur an experienced skipper who knows the North Atlantic then go to your favorite hunting grounds and start stalking. The best advice i can give to you is to check with Naval Intelligence aka SH3 Forum and talk to your fellow captains. Once you know where the good hunting grounds are then you dont have any good excuses to comming home empty handed.

I don't go home after 24h, I go home when my fuel gets low.

But again, I didn't mean "getting most out of the campaign" in terms of "most tonnage", but rather, most fun.

This is especially about being more involved in the game. I really miss communication with BdU here. I get orders to go to one grid.. so what now? Am I allowed to leave it after 24h? After all the uboats where deployed in a certain way to patrol the entire north atlantic. me just leaving without asking would produce gaps.
I know that doesn't matter in SH3 but it just doesn't fit to the roleplaying aspect.

I have to say in GMX and most other mods I've tried so far and of course stock too, I feel very alone out there. I hear those fake radio reports from other boats but I know those are just fill messages. Nearly nothing about them has any connection to what's really going on in the game.. the reports about convoys are the only thing that ever makes you feel involved and even those are ridiculously seldom. I don't get those reports unless I'm pretty much running into the convoy anyway.

And the historical events? They happen but the player has no idea what and why and how. I mean, here I am, patroling my grid off the coast of Norway and all hell breaks lose, I meat the Hipper, hear radio reports about the entire German Navy rushing up here, suspect a huge invasion is going to come.. and I don't get any orders.. In entire April I sunk one British transport (that was 30th March) on my way up there, and then later one small Norwegian coastal tanker with my deck gun.. all while there was all hell going on around me in Trondheim and up in NArvik or down in Oslo. And I spent my days in my grid (AF84 I think) and waited and waited and waited and went back home...

So what I was really asking is how you try to get more involved in the actual war.
I am not talking about always driving to the same convoy hunting grounds and get yourself some more tankers.. I'm also not talking about getting those unrealistic 50,000-100,000 ton patrols some people are getting this way.

I'm talking about getting more of a "being part of the German navy" feeling.
I mean sitting in the grid I got reports of uboats swarming out all around me.. and I felt like the BdU had forgotten I was also still up there...

[emtmedic005]

You mentioned that you want more of a "being part of the German navy" feeling. hmmmm thats sorta on you. Read some history books, look things up on line.
When i know the Invasion of norway is comming up i will assigne my own patrol grid via SH3Cmr that is close to Norway.
Yea i wish we got more info and more communications from BDU but o well

[KeldorKatarn]

You mentioned that you want more of a "being part of the German navy" feeling. hmmmm thats sorta on you. Read some history books, look things up on line.
When i know the Invasion of norway is comming up i will assigne my own patrol grid via SH3Cmr that is close to Norway.
Yea i wish we got more info and more communications from BDU but o well

Being close to Norway is not the point.. I WAS assigned to Norway. GMX has good assignment grids related to dates. But I still felt left alone.. I mean.. the entire Germany Navy went out of their posts and I didn't even get a message that Operation Weserübung was even planned. I just got a "Operation Hartmut has begun" or something like that.. I didn't even know what Hartmut was (from a captain's point of view). I do of course know what historically happend. I know the Hipper went to Trondheim, the Blücher was sunk near Oslo.. all that.. but I'd like to hear about that in game. I hardly know anything inside the game as a captain persona. I mean I get all sorts of contact reports of English and German ships heading for Norway and I don't know what the hell is going on. Then several U-boats are sent all around Trondheim and Narvik and various Fjords to intercept troops... only I am left alone in a relatively calm area... That was frustrating. I never knew what to do.. follow the Hipper or stay in my grid because I didn't know whether GMX had something planned for me in that grid or not. I didn't know whether some convoy might have taken that route or something or why that grid was one of the possible assignments...

I hope you get the idea what I'm talking about.. a simple "all uboats in the Norway area, assist there and there" or somethign. I immediately would have felt he's talking to US, not just THEM and would have sailed to Trondheim or wherever at ahead full and do my best...

I mean it's all about roleplay.. of course I can position myself at places where I know stuff is gonna happen and I can also sail every patrol to the same big fat tanker spot once I found a good one, but that isn't really realistic emerging play.

Again I'm not critizising GMX for this, I'm just trying to suggest a few ways to maybe change that. Huge free campaign is good but once important events happen the player should actively be pulled in and ordered around. And on other occasions he should get voluntary missions or something.. try to infiltrate that harbor if fuel allows, or relocate there and therer by that date... stuff like that. Stuff that makes you feel you're being adressed and not forgotten out there. :)

Also in this post http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=815071&postcount=7
difool2 suggested something interesting about seeing more convoy reports, even if you cannot reach most of them. It makes you also feel something is going on around you, without totally giving you too much information that makes your job too easy.

Again, just suggestions...

[Sailor Steve]

"Patrol grid for 24 hours" is a holdover from when SH3 was going to have scripted missions instead of a full career. The mission orders are still there. Nothing except a little renown (disabled in GWX anyway) is at stake, so it's a good idea to just find out where the best hunting is.

This is odd advice coming from me, because I actually go to my assigned grid and stay there until my fuel is low. If I don't see anything, that's the way it is. I'm long past my days of playing the game for the thrill; my style is to imagine I'm doing the real thing and pretend a lot.

This made it funny back when I was writing regular patrol summaries. I would describe my captain's frustrations, and thinking they were my frustrations people would give me all kinds of advice about where to go and how to get better at finding traffic. I could never convince them that I didn't want to just sink things, I wanted to live the life.

You have to play the way that makes you happy.

[mcf1]

On my 2nd patrol I found two large convoys. One about 150 km west of the dover canal and another close to Gibraltar.
I scored about 80000 tons. I could hit more, but I was out of torps.

[HanSolo78]

I advise you to try our mod... you will be find a campaign where you get radio messages assigned to the player and the most detailed skripted events in sh3 ;)
Have a look! :rock:

Just click my signature!

[KeldorKatarn]

"Patrol grid for 24 hours" is a holdover from when SH3 was going to have scripted missions instead of a full career. The mission orders are still there. Nothing except a little renown (disabled in GWX anyway) is at stake, so it's a good idea to just find out where the best hunting is.

This is odd advice coming from me, because I actually go to my assigned grid and stay there until my fuel is low. If I don't see anything, that's the way it is. I'm long past my days of playing the game for the thrill; my style is to imagine I'm doing the real thing and pretend a lot.

This made it funny back when I was writing regular patrol summaries. I would describe my captain's frustrations, and thinking they were my frustrations people would give me all kinds of advice about where to go and how to get better at finding traffic. I could never convince them that I didn't want to just sink things, I wanted to live the life.

You have to play the way that makes you happy.
Finally someone who seems to understand what I mean.. I usually play exactly like this.. stay in my grid until fuel is low and do a lot of roleplay in my log.
I didn't mind all that until I re-read my log from April 1940.. I even had stuff in there like us going alongside the Hipper, being frustrated that their captain refuses to give us more information about the upcoming battles because of security reasons and being told to wait for message from BdU which pretty much never arrived. It sounded ridiculous, that U45 would sail at the coast of Norway, not being informed about Operation Weserübung which was about to begin while the entire rest of the Navy was getting into position.

@Han Solo. I've wanted to check out your mod yes, but I see several problems with other supermods so far.. GWX changes pretty much everything, not just the campaign. Switching from it I get a different damage model, different aircraft weapons, different sinking model and whatever else.
Also most other mods are optimized for it. OLC Environment e.g. and other stuff.
I might check it out anyway, but I want to point out that my ideas are not just about historical event but gameplay in general.

Another possible solution comes with the SH3Gen tool which I just stumbled upon after being pointed to the thread.

I'll see, but I just wanted to hear from you guys how you play.. Sailor Steve, pretty much answered nearly exactly what I do. Just wanted to hear what other people do.
E.g. how many of you use SH3Gen.

And what is the compatibility of WAC with other mods which are originally designed for GWX ? And what are the differences between WAC and GWX except the campaign files? Especially in terms of sinking model since I definately will not go back to anything that is not based on the NYGM sinking model anymore.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

What the heck is "GMX?" :lol:

[KeldorKatarn]

What the heck is "GMX?" :lol:

Aww geee, I must stop doing that.. forgive me.. it comes from typing my email adress very often recently I guess :P

[emtmedic005]

You mentioned about how you wanted to get a message saying "all uboats in the Norway area, assist there and there" Well i think i have recieved messages like that during the invasion of Norway, but there was a catch, i wasnt anywhere near Norway, that was when i was playing GWX1.0.

Anyways.............Play the game the way you want too. If BDU sends you to a grid that is out in the middle of nowhere, you dont have to go to it, i usually will stop by the grid but i wont stay there for 24 hours. Soo i hope you have fun in Norway, please let us know whats up there. I found a small group of British ships made up of two troop transports and 3 DDs hiding out in a Forjd, i was heading up towards Narvik, it came in as a task force, its stationary. Also i was entering the Forjd that leads to Narvik when i spotted 3-4 British DDs infront of me. Now at this point Narvik was in German hands, and i was thinking that those British DDs were going to cause trouble for the German Troops, soo i sunk them and ended up being the Heroe of Narvik, cause the Germans only had a few small armed vessals up there.

I wish we could get Campaign ribbons and badges for participating in those kind of events.