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View Full Version : Survey Question: Can you TC during an attack?


MarkShot
03-15-08, 11:21 PM
GIVEN that you have performed an end run in order to get ahead of a convoy AND
GIVEN that you can hear a convoy from 34km away AND
GIVEN that your SO can hear a convoy from 20km away THEN

from the time your earliest contact with the convoy until you launch torpedoes could be 2-3 hours.

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Of course, you could play that all out in TC 1X. However, that can be rather tedious especially when the convoy is still a fair distance away. For people with busy lives, simply waiting an real hour to close convoy seems a waste when there are much more enjoyable things to do with ones time.

Your other option is to use some TC 4-16X and bring the convoy into range quickly. However, as best I can tell, doing that seems to make the escorts much more preceptive and likely to detect you. (especially when running shallow in a calm sea). I say this, because I might have my SO tracking the lead escort. Prior to TCing, it is the usual "closing medium speed long range". Immediately after TCing, it is "closing very fast" or "closing speeding up". The DE tends to head in your general direction and when within a 1km or so, it begins to ping. Perhaps, it isn't that TCing gives away your position to the escorts, but instead it alerts the AI to your presence.

So, do others agree? Does TCing alert the enemy to your presence?

If so, then how do you conduct your attacks? Do you invest 2-3 hours of reall time in an attack to avoid alerting the AI?

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I've found that by going very deep and later popping up that I can avoid this problem with TCing. The AI still appears to head towards my general position, but perhaps because I am too deep to ping and there is no way to confirm the suspicion of my presence, then the AI gives up on locating me.

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Anyway, I have to say that I am really discouraged that TCing so alters the game. Of course, I can understand how very high levels of TC would. But just 2X, 4X, or 8X. This is discouraging. I makes that game tedious. Clearly, there is no reason that it must be so, since some play on PCs that have 2 to 3 times more CPU cycles than others. And yet, the game still works basically the same. So, the fundamental issue is not CPU cycles, but game engine design.

How do others deal with TCing?

Final comment, it appears that the impact of TCing is not nearly as great when evading than when attacking. Perhaps, it is simply that when attacking losing the element of surprize is a disaster. Comments?

Thanks.

von hally
03-16-08, 08:35 AM
lo mate

im sure i remember reading somewhere that upping t/c does improve the escorts abilities..im sure its the same with gwx too

as for your other problems i hope you find an answer here as im in the same boat (forgive the pun:rotfl: )
some kaleun will give us the answer im sure
they usually know everything:rotfl: :rotfl:

Brag
03-16-08, 09:45 AM
With TCx8 I've had decent success with escort as close as 2,000 meters. With escorts nearer I stay at TCx01. In evading high TC doesn't seem to have as negative an effect as when trying to penetrate screen.

Umfuld
03-16-08, 09:57 AM
TC is a killer. But I've gone at convoys in 256 TC and come out with an escort 3000m away and remained undetected.
In fact, in recent patrols this seems to be happening a little too often for my liking.

Generally getting detected in TC happens for me when I'm trying to get away underwater.

If you don't want to wait the 15 minutes (or is it 30) they spend actively searching after they know something is there and you TC it they often will never lose you again. Even if at TC 1 they would never detect you - at high TC they will never lose you.


Approaching a convoy I try to avoid ANY TC once any ship is under a couple 1000m. But never have any trouble getting to them at high TC.

Jimbuna
03-16-08, 11:09 AM
lo mate

im sure i remember reading somewhere that upping t/c does improve the escorts abilities..im sure its the same with gwx too

as for your other problems i hope you find an answer here as im in the same boat (forgive the pun:rotfl: )
some kaleun will give us the answer im sure
they usually know everything:rotfl: :rotfl:

I'm not so sure upping the tc does improve the AI http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

What it will mean though, is that your not aware of any disadvantage your actions may be placing you at because your reactions are not quick enough to detect and perform countermeasures.....due to said enhanced tc. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

MarkShot
03-16-08, 11:16 AM
With my SO tracking the nearest DE on approach as soon as I go to TC, I get the SO saying that the DE is "moving fast" or "increase speed". Usually that never happens when I stay at 1:1.

predavolk
03-16-08, 12:44 PM
I'm not so sure upping the tc does improve the AI http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

What it will mean though, is that your not aware of any disadvantage your actions may be placing you at because your reactions are not quick enough to detect and perform countermeasures.....due to said enhanced tc. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

With all due respect jimbuna, that doesn't make sense. Especially if you're simply moving at 1knt or 0 kts. There's no countermeasures to perform, no actions to betray you. You're doing what you're supposed to be doing- being a silent hole in the ocean!

I don't have enough experience to offer strong data one way or another, but it wouldn't surprise me if something about time compression altered the sweep sensitivity of the escorts. It would explain, in part, the "uber" nature of the AI at times. IIRC, in real life, it was very rare for WWII escorts, especially pre-1943, to pick up silent, waiting subs! By FAR the most kills were against attacking/heavily maneuvering or surfaced subs. Even with today's technology, a submerged sub on batteries is very challenging to detect.

MarkShot
03-16-08, 01:01 PM
If I TC and then stop when the lead is 1.5-2km out, then I find that the lead escort will tend meander over to where I am and start pinging.

I don't think TCing gives away my exact position, but I do think that TCing changes the DE state from UNAWARE -> ALERTED. And I think the DE gets a rough idea of my location. As has been stated previously by modders, whenever a DE gets within a certain range of a sub (and that sub is shallow), it will automatically begin pinging. Of course, in this case it finds me.

This is why the pop-up attack works much better with TC. The DE never pings. Thus, despite suspecting me, it does not find me. Then, I can still make a stealthy attack. I just wish that low amounts of TC had no impact on game behavior. There is no reason for it to be so.