Torpedo Firing

[ddiplock]

hey guys, so i've got back to SH4. Got RSRD installed along with TM Overhaul for 1.4.


I got some questions though and would like to hear from you. I've been doing the torpedo training mission to reaquaint myself the finer points of manual firing after being in a U-boat for so long :)

I'm getting my torpedos to hit, but they're all hitting the same spot, despite me firing at different aiming points down the length of a target in the periscope view. How can I get the torps to hit different parts of a target, as my periscope aiming doesn't seem to be working. Also, i've been putting on the Position Keeper AFTER I gather my target data and input it into the TDC, is this the right way to use the PK? As I can't remember :( lol

Another thing, has anyone encountered any bugs with any of the mods? Its probably nothing to do with the mods but some of the torpedos in the training mission have seriously been acting up. In some cases, despite me making NO changes at ALL to torpedo depth, i've had some torpedos in a salvo run deeper than their comrades in the same salvo if you get my meaning. Ie, i fire 4 torpedoes. Torpedo 1 runs deep and under the target, the other 3 torps all run normal at the same depth and hit....and this is when i've made NO changes to torpedo depth.

Another thing is, i've had a couple of torpedos get fired, and then just go round and round and round in circles and then detonate. Another time I fired I had one torpedo go right round and head back towards my sub before detonating prematurly.

Any advice on the torp shooting query above, and anyone else encoutnered some of these bugs?

Cheers guys :)

[Sailor Steve]

Real life: from 1941 until the final fix in 1943 torpedoes prematured, dudded and ran deeper than planned, causing huge amounts of frustration to captains. Some torpedoes were circle-runners--USS Tang was sunk by one of her own torpedoes.

What you are experiencing is not a bug; it was planned that way. Answer to you last question: everybody has encountered one or all of these behaviors, and they are not bugs.

[ddiplock]

Real life: from 1941 until the final fix in 1943 torpedoes prematured, dudded and ran deeper than planned, causing huge amounts of frustration to captains. Some torpedoes were circle-runners--USS Tang was sunk by one of her own torpedoes.

What you are experiencing is not a bug; it was planned that way. Answer to you last question: everybody has encountered one or all of these behaviors, and they are not bugs.

Ah right, ok. So the fact I just fired 2 torpedos at my first ever japanese merchant and the first one underran the friggin ship, and the 2nd was a dud is normal......right ok then :) lol

grrrr. Is this going to be more frustrating with its torpedos than SH3 was?? ;)

[Quillan]

One difference you'll have to get used to is this: bearing to target does NOT constantly update based on where the scope is currently pointing. If you have the position keeper off, it fires to hit a target based on the bearing of the scope at the last time you sent in the range data. If the PK is on, it's based on the current calculation of the position of the ship, and where the scope is pointing no longer matters. So, you basically have two options:

1) Using the PK - if you have the PK on, the only way to vary the impact point is by playing with the spread angle settings for individual torpedoes. Fire the first one with a 0.5-1° left angle, the second with zero, and the third with 0.5-1° right angle depending on range. This should get you one hit forward, one center, and one aft on the target.

2) Forget the PK - after figuring out course and speed, decide on a firing position. Turn the scope to that firing position, and input range/AOB/speed of the target for once it's at the firing position. Then just keep the scope unlocked and fire torpedoes as the ship passes the center of the scope. Each torpedo should hit the point on the scope at the time of firing if all your data is correct.

[Platapus]

Really sucks that it is so different from SH3.

Is this historically accurate?

Could the German's spread their torps by the periscope and the American's couldn't?

[ddiplock]

Really sucks that it is so different from SH3.

Is this historically accurate?

Could the German's spread their torps by the periscope and the American's couldn't?

Yeah I find that to be annoying also. :( I think German subs were better than the American subs. They weren't as luxurious as the US boats, but they could dive nearly twice as deep as their US counterparts.

Also, does anyone know what the red indicator line on the deep depth guage is for?? Is that meant to be you're crush depth or something?

[Platapus]

Also, does anyone know what the red indicator line on the deep depth guage is for?? Is that meant to be you're crush depth or something?

That is a really important question.

Is it the max normal operating depth? meaning I can dive to this depth with no worries

Is it the design max operating depth? Meaning that I can dive to this depth only with risks

Is it the anticipated crush depth? Meaning that if you go below this you is a deader?

I guess we can alway start a single mission and sacrifice the crew to find out

"Executive officer, I want you to take the crew out and determine the maximum depth capabilities of this boat. I will be on shore...uh.. compiling the data. I will wait for you to report back to me (<muttering> or I will report to new construction). Good luck!"

In any case it does seem that the American Subs can't dive anywhere near where the German ones could.

But then the American Subs had ice cream makers so that compensated for the lack of diving depth. :up:

[ekempey]

Also, does anyone know what the red indicator line on the deep depth guage is for?? Is that meant to be you're crush depth or something?

The Red line is the submarine's Test Depth. The Test Depth is designed to be the maximum safe depth for subs to operate in during normal (i.e. peacetime) operations. The sub can dive deeper than the test depth, and it sometimes can be a handy tool for espcaping escorts and DD's. One word of caution, as you take damage to your boat, the crush depth decreases in depth, so dive lower than the test depth at your own will at that point.

Ducimus has all of the mathematical equations, and if you search Test Depth, you'll find his explaniation.

[ddiplock]

The depth guague, the deep one goes to 450 feet, I took a Narwal class boat down to that depth with no problems at all. But I couldnt go any deeper. Each time i brought the planes to dive ,the dive crew brought the boat back upto the red dial, to 250 feet.

I dont expect Jap DD's to be too hard to evade in SH4, if thery're anything like reality from what I know the Japs were not the best at sub hunting. Quite often they would set their DC's too shallow, and US subs would just dive deep and under to evade them.

[Sailor Steve]

Really sucks that it is so different from SH3.

Is this historically accurate?

Could the German's spread their torps by the periscope and the American's couldn't?
I'm not sure what you mean by "spread". If you mean having different angles on the gyros, so the torpedoes would hit different parts of the ship, then neither Americans nor Germans could do that from the periscope; the spread angle had to be dialed directly into the TDC. If you meant firing salvoes of several torpedoes at once, then yes, the Germans could do that and the Americans couldn't, but with one caveat: the Germans had a 'Salvo' selector switch, but it's a pretty good bet that it didn't actually fire the torpedoes; it likely just told the torpedomen which tubes to fire. SH3 has it wrong there, in firing them all at once. They certainly still fired them several seconds apart. If fired at the same time there would be too big a chance of them hitting each other, and the problem with the magnetic detonators would be even worse.

[SuperCavitation]

Ie, i fire 4 torpedoes. Torpedo 1 runs deep and under the target, the other 3 torps all run normal at the same depth and hit....and this is when i've made NO changes to torpedo depth.


When you lock your scope on a target, watch what happens to the depth setting. It will jump to some insane number like 22 (for large merchants). You actually have to cycle out of the torpedo tube by either "w" or clicking on it to get the setting to 'default' back to 6. If you unlock from that target and relock on it (or another target), the setting will again jump to some deep number. Once you cycle out of that tube (regardless of whether you fire) the rest of the tubes will be at 6.

This is why most players first torp runs deep and the rest do not. My best guess is the devs wanted an autocalc of draft available to the player. Or maybe it's a bug. Either way, it isn't consistent.

As for duds, set to run slow and impact. For me, it's caused my torpedo dud rate to drop bigtime. Out of 24 total torps, I'll average about 4-6 duds on a patrol, shooting from between 800-1200 yards.

[Sailor Steve]

grrrr. Is this going to be more frustrating with its torpedos than SH3 was?? ;)
My computer still won't run it, but I read these boards faithfully; and yes, it has been as frustrating as it was for the real captains. In fact SH3 should have been just as bad. I kind of wish it was.

Sorry.:sunny:

[Munchausen]

Germans had problems with magnetic exploders but disabled the function early in the war. Americans had problems with similar exploders but the Navy Brass refused to believe the exploders were at fault ... instead placing blame for poor performance on the skippers.

American torps ran, on average, 11 feet deeper than their setting because trials were done with dummy warheads ... and the dummies were too light. Circular runs were blamed on an early function that was supposed to be disabled: the ability to set a torpedo so that it would circle back and hit a pursuing DD (pre-war tactics always had the sub firing while submerged ... the surface attack made circular run a dangerous gambit).

P.S. The easiest method of picking your point of impact (on the target) is to use the O'Kane procedure.

[Niedziak]

I have newest version without mods. I'm playing canpaing from the beginning with externals views only on (i have duds turned on) and experience no problems with torpedoes. Game is too easy. I have no duds od strangly moving torpedoes so far, with is rather annoying because game is too easy and unrealistic :)

[Munchausen]

Game is too easy. I have no duds....

Try this link:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125529

:roll: But be careful what you wish for.

[Ducimus]

Really sucks that it is so different from SH3.
Is this historically accurate?
Could the German's spread their torps by the periscope and the American's couldn't?

TDC in SH4 is historically accurate. Both could fire salvo's, but as sailor steve mentioned, its the torpedomen who fire the fish. Not the TDC. It just had a selector switch that notified crewman what tubes to fire when the order was given. If one was to compare the US and German TDC, i think the US TDC is acutally superior. It was one of the first analog computers and could track a target and predict its position based on information feed to it. German TDC's could not do this.

They weren't as luxurious as the US boats, but they could dive nearly twice as deep as their US counterparts.

Also, does anyone know what the red indicator line on the deep depth guage is for?? Is that meant to be you're crush depth or something?

US subs diving ability is, generally, underestimated. True, most uboat types could dive deeper, but not "twice as deep". Particuarly where the Balao and Tench class is concerned. (boats so well built, they were still in service well into the cold war). How deep US subs could go, is really a matter of conjecture. For the most part depth gauges stopped at 450 feet, and US command often reprimanded the sub captain who took his boat below test depth without a VERY good reason or excuse. So how deep they sometimes went, is often glossed over. Test depth BTW, is whats indicated by the red needle. you can go deeper. Test depth is not to be confused with crush depth. Whats the crush depth? Im not saying. :smug:

I took a Narwal class boat down to that depth with no problems at all. But I couldnt go any deeper. Each time i brought the planes to dive ,the dive crew brought the boat back upto the red dial, to 250 feet.

Theres a button with the tooltip, "Dive planes to deep dive".Similary SHIFT+ D will do the same. The D key itself will always bring you to your subs test depth.
As for the Narwhals depth at 450 feet, when diving deep, stand in the conning tower. That is where hull stress will show first. NOT in the control room.