Scapa Flow and the Royal Oak.

[Freiwillige]

I began a new career and on my second patrol I noticed that it was october 1939.
That is when U-47 and Gunther Prein snuck into the impregnable Scapa Flow and sunk the Royal Oak. Well odly Enough I was assighned U-47 by the game! So I decided that I would pull off the stunning attack using the same route that Prien did. (For maps showing Preins route into Scapa Flow see www.u47.org (http://www.u47.org))

I carefully stuck to his Historic time table, and was easily able to slip in. But the Royal Oak was nowhere to be found. So I laid a pair of eels into a heavy tanker then a pair into a troop transport. Flairs shot up into the night and searchlights scanned the water. It was only when I was menouvering to make my exit that I realised What I thought was a destroyer parked in the distance due west was infact the Royal Oak! I would not have noticed if it wasnt for the flairs lighting her up.Okay so she was not where she should have been historically in fact she was off by about 1 1/2 miles but that matters little. Its so dark I have a hard time making out her distance. I let loose my final three torpedos. Minutes tick by as I await the reaction. I wasnt kept waiting long, One after another the torpedo's found their mark. First one about midship, Second along the stern and the third into the bow. I waited to see If she would go under. I turned the boat until my last torpedo was facing her out the stern tube. Torpedo Los! Again minutes tick by. I am giving up and creeping out of the estuary when my fourth and last torpedo finds its mark! She's going down!

11,000 ton tanker
7,000 ton Troop transport
35,000 ton HMS Royal Oak

833 men perished in that attack http://www.hmsroyaloak.co.uk/index.htm
Abbott, S.E.
Ackerman, A.G.
Adams, W.P.
Agnew, C.W.
Alberry, J.
Allen, A.F.
Allen, P.L.
Amos, E.J.
Anderson, E.
Anderson, H.L.
Anderson, R.F.
Anderson, W.B.
Anderson, W.T.
Andrews, E.H.
Andrews, G.C.
Andrews, W.E.
Annell, F.W.
Armfield, L.
Armitage, F.C.
Armstrong, G.H.
Arno, R.
Ashby, K.
Ashwin, A.W.
Atherton, J.
Atherton, N.
Atkinson, J.
Atkinson, T.E.
Attard, F
Attard, L.
Attfield, H.G.
Azzopardi, A.
Baigent, G.H.
Bailey, C.W.
Bailey, E.R.
Bain, R.
Baker, A.E.
Baker, A.W.
Baker, W.G.M.
Baldwin, A.S.
Ball, R.J.
Ballard, E.F.
Balls, H.E.
Barber, A.S.
Barber, F.
Bargery, A.E.
Barker, E.H.
Barnes-Moss, H.W.
Barnfather, R.A.
Bartlett, A.
Bartolo, J.
Bealing, F.C.
Beange, J.
Beddall, H.
Bedwell, H.
Beechey, A.C.
Beer, A.E.
Bell, R.W.
Bendall, R.F.J.
Bennett, W.
Benney, C.E.
Beswick, H.W.J.
Betts, H.J.
Betts, W.T.
Billyard, N.
Binnington, A.
Binns, F.B.
Binsley, G.F.
Birtchnell, C.E.
Black, J.

Blackborough, J.W.
Blagrove, H.E.C
Blenkiron, N.
Blood, S.
Blyth, H.B.
Boening, J.
Bold, P.W.
Bonello, S.
Bonner, W.C.
Borland, D.A.
Bottomley, R.J.
Bowden, R.C.
Bowen, J.
Bowhay, W.J.R.
Boyd, T.A.
Boyes, L.S.
Boyle, W.
Brading, C.E.
Bradwick, A.H.
Bramley, R.J.
Branch, H.
Bridges, J.G.C.
Bright, H.
Brightman, G.R.
Briscoe, E.
Britton, T.F.
Brookin, J.F.
Broughton, A.E.
Brown, A.G.
Brown, D.A.J.
Brown, H.
Brown, H.W.
Brown, J.
Brymer, E.A.
Buckett, S.V.
Bucknall, A.G.
Budge, J.
Bull, A.N.
Burden, A.E.
Burnham, P.
Burns, A.
Burns, J.E.
Burrows, R.W.
Burt, E.H.
Burtenshaw, C.H.
Burton, J.W.
Butler, A.A.
Butler, A.E.
Butler, A.E.
Bydawell, L.R.J.
Cachia, J.
Cairns, J.
Campbell, C.H.
Campbell, D.
Campsie, C.
Cannon, R.J.
Capel, C.W.
Card, A.R.W.
Carnegie, A.K.
Carpenter, E.G.
Carr, F.C.
Carter, G.W.
Carter, J.
Carter, R.W.H.
Carter, W.F.
Cartwright, W.
Cass, L.
Cast, R.I.
Chadwick, J.C.



Chadwick, T.
Chalk, R.G.
Challenger, A.L.
Chappell, W.G.
Cheesley, W.H.G.
Chesman, W.E.
Chick, A.
Church, O.
Clacher, W.H.
Clackson, R.G.
Clark, A.H.
Clark, A.J.
Clark, F.H.
Clark, J.
Clark, R.L.W.
Clarke, F.H.
Clarke, R.E.
Clements, E.F.J.
Clementson, J.
Cloute, E.C.
Cock, C.H.
Coffin, L.J.
Colbourne, F.E.
Colbourne, J.W.F.
Colbran, P.B.
Coleman, E.W.
Coleman, J.A.
Coleman, M.G.N.
Collins, G.A.
Collins, R.
Comber, A.E.B.
Connor, F.
Connor, R.J.
Conroy, F.
Cook, G.J.
Cooke, F.A.
Cooper, L.L.
Cooper, N.
Cope, J.R.
Coreschi E.
Cornelious, K.T.
Cornelius, H.J.
Cornish, C.F.
Cousins, H.J.
Cox, E.
Cragg, W.
Craven, A.
Cree, J.D.B.
Crockett, J.S.
Crofts, E.A.
Cross, E.V.A.
Crosswell, W.H.
Cumbes, R.W.
Cumming, L.T.J.
Cummings, H.
Cunningham, E.W.
Curtin, C.
Curtis, H.H.W.
Cutler, J.A.
Daniels, G.
Darnell, G.T.
Daughtrey, A.
Davey, C.B.
Davie, R.C.
Davies, H.R.
Davies, M.C.
Davis, J.F.
Davis, R.E.
Daysh, A.

Deacon, W.J.
Dear, A.J.
Deighton, E.C.
Derbyshire, R.
Derry, J.O.H.
Diaper, S.T.
Dickie, W.A.
Doe, S.P.
Doggett, I.E.
Dowding, P.W.G.
Downes, A.F.
Draper, B.H.
Druce, A.
Duncalf, T.
Dunk, C.A.
Dunk, W.W.
Dyer, H.
Eade, J.H.
Easton, F.
Ede, F.
Edwards, A.
Edwards, J.F.
Edwards, R.G.
Edwards, W.R.A.
Efemey, R.B.
Elliott, R.
Eltringham, N.
Emery, A.
Emery, F.C.
Evans, B.
Evans, J.E.
Eyers, C.E.
Fairbrother, J.W.
Farr, E.W.
Farrell, R.
Fenn, T.R.P.
Finlay, M.B.
Fisher, B.L.
Fisher, J.B.
Fitch, C.E.
Flogdell, A.E.
Flounders, A.
Ford, W.J.
Forsey, H.S.
Foster, D.C.
Foster, G.W.
Foulger, A.
Fowler, J.W.
Foyle, A.A.
Francis, H.A.
Franckeiss, E.L.
French, C.
Fuller, C.W.
Furbear, T.G.
Furby, E.A.
Furlong, J.
Furnell, L.T.
Gallagher, J.W.
Gibbons, J.A.
Gibson, G.
Gibson, S.J.
Gile, W.H.
Gill, G.E.
Gill, H.W.
Gillis, G.W.
Glasspool, H.
Godley, S.G.
Godwin, T.G.
Godwin, W.

Golding, A.
Goodyear, J.C.
Goorlay, J.R.G.
Gorsuch, E.D.
Gough, E.J.
Gough, T.E.
Gowan, J.D.
Grace, V.M.
Graham, G.M.
Graham, P.W.C.
Graham, S.
Graham-Brown, J.L.T.
Gray, A.
Gray, E
Gray, H.W.
Grech, J.
Green, F.
Green, F.A.
Green, R.
Greenwood, L.
Griffin, H.
Griffiths, E.J.
Griffiths, J.R.
Grindey, A.E.
Grogan, J.
Giusti, I.
Gutteridge, R.G.N.
Guy, R.
Hales, J.
Hall, H.J.
Hall, J.
Hall, K.E.
Hall, W.R.
Hamblin, G.A.
Hamblin, H.J.
Hammond, J.S.
Hammond, W.L.
Hance, T.R.
Harkin, P.R.
Harle, G.
Harley, J.A.H.
Harper, R.R.J.
Harris, G.J.
Harris, K.J.
Harris, N.H.
Harris, P.W.
Hawkins, K.R.J.
Hawkins, W.J.
Hayes, T.
Hayward, J.G.
Heather, C.W.
Helmore, W.L.
Hemestretch, C.W.
Hemsley, C.F.
Henstridge, C.
Heslop, C.
Hicks, A.E.
Higgins, J.J.
Higgs, H.H.
Highfield, J.E.
Hill, A.
Hill, D
Hill, D.
Hill, E.F.
Hill, S.
Hillier, C.W.
Hingston, E.
Hiscock, F.J.
Hixson, H.H.

Hocking, J.R.
Hodgson, A.R.
Hodgson, J.S.
Hudson, F.H.J.
Holland, C.
Holyoak, E.
Hotton, L.W.T.
Hudson, J.C.
Huggins, H.S.
Hughes, F.E.
Hughes, T.
Hughes-Rowlands, R.
Hull, E.C.
Hull, R.G.
Humber, J.F.
Hunt, A.V.
Hunt, E.G.
Hunter, F.
Hunter, J.
Hurst, F.
Huscroft, R.W.
Hussey-Yeo, A.J.
Hutchcocks, T.
Hyde, A.J.
Hyde, G.M.
Ing, R.
Jack, J.D.
Jackman, J.J.
Jackson, L.T.D.
Jackson, T.W.
Jacobs, W.A.C.
Jago, L.
James, L.J.
James, R.
James, V.L.
Jay, V.G.U.
Jelley, L.J.
Jenkins, E.J.A.
Jenkins, T.S.
Jennings, R.E.
Jewell, A.
Jewer, S.A.
Jobson, J.B.
Johns, P.H.M.
Johnson, F.W.P.
Johnson, T.W.
Johnston, A.J.
Jones, C.E.
Jones, H.
Jones, H.G.
Jones, S.
Jones, T.J.
Jordon, F.
Jordon, H.D.
Judge, P.R.
Kane, R.C.
Kearey, A.
Keel, J.
Keel, W.
Kemp, L.H.
Kempster, A.
Kennedy, R.H.
Kennedy, W.T.
Kennett, E.H.
Kent, H.A.J.
Kenworthy, J.
Kersey, H.A.
Kidby, W.F.
King, C.E.M.


King, F.W.
King, W.L.
Kirkby, D.E.
Knight, G.E.W.
Laban, K.G.
Lardner, F.M.
Lawrence, J.E.
Leach, E.C.
Lenz, B.H.
Lester, R.
Lewis, C.E.
Lewis, D.J.
Liddell, R.
Lilley, H.G.
Liptrot, F
Lister, H.G.
Littlejohn, J.B.M.
Lloyd, R.G.
Lloyds, S.R.
Loats, T.R.
Lock, L.F.
Lockwood, W.
Logan, F.
Long, A.
Lowery, D.
Lynch, H.C.
Lyons, J.
MacAngus, D.
MacDermott, A.D.
MacGibbon, T.H.
Mackinnon, D.
MacReady, J.A.
Magion, J.P.
Maher, C.
Malyon, S.H.
Mamo, F.
Manning, J.
Mansfield, W.H.
Manwaring, D.
Manwaring, W.
Marlow, A.J.
Marsh, J.W.
Marsh, O.F.
Marshall, F.
Martin, E.J.
Martin, H.J.
Martin, L.G.
Matfield, A.H.
Mather, G.
Matthews, F.H.
Matthews-Sheen, T.
McArthur, A.
McBain, D.
McBrown, R.S.
McDonald, A.
McGregor, G.D.
McGregor, R.
McLaren, W.
McLennan, A.J.
McMilland, G.A.
McPherson, C.J.
McTaggart, D.
Meaden, F.E.B.
Medley, B.
Mellor, S.
Merifield, W.J.
Middleton, A.F.C.
Milborn, P.
Miles, A.
Miles, A.W.S.
Miles, E.H.
Miles, P.
Milford, A.E.

Miller, A.E.
Miller, J.H.
Milligan, J.M.
Millis, R.
Millmore, F.
Milness, R.W.
Minns, F.A.
Mirfin, G.D.
Mitchell, J.H.
Mitchell, J.S.
Moar, J.W.
Moffat, J.B.
Mooney, P.
Moore, I.
Moore, J.E.
Moore, L.G.
Moore, W.J.
Morey, F.J.M.
Morris, C.H.
Morrison, J.
Morrison, J.
Morse, D.L.G.
Moses, L.D.
Mosley, J.H.
Mould, R.W.
Mountain, F.
Mountford, H.C.L.
Moylan, T.
Mullen, T.G.
Mullin, C.T.
Munro, J.
Murphy, P.
Murphy, T.
Murray, W.R.
Mutlow, L.C.
Myers, G.E.
Naisby, T.F.
Needham, E.
Newman, W.H.
Newnham, E.
Newnham, K.G.
Newsham, H.
Newsome, G.
Niblett, C.H.
Nichol, G
Nicholls, A.H.
Nicholson, W.D.
Nixon, H.
Nuttall, F.R.M.
O'Brien, A.E.
O'Shea, M.
Offer, C.H.
Ogden, G.R.
Osborne, T.G.
Overton, J.J.
Oxley, G.R.
Oxley, H.
Paice, H.F.
Palfreyman, J.
Palmer, C.J.
Palmer, G.J.
Pape, E.W.A.S.
Park, A.A.
Parker, A.G.
Parker, J.
Parker, R.T.
Parkinson, G.H.
Parr, W.A.
Parrish, W.H.
Parry, G.J.
Parsons, G.E.
Partlett, E.G.
Patch, D.G.

Paterson, W.D.
Patterson, N.M.
Paul, L.W.C.
Pearson, A.R.
Pennel, J.A.
Pennycord, J.A.
Percy, K.B.
Perkins, E.E.G.
Perkins, R.J.
Perry, D.W.
Pesci, E.
Peters, E.R.
Peters, G.
Phelps, C.E.
Phipps, C.P.
Pickard, S.E.
Piddington, P.G.
Pierson, A.J.
Pike, A.C.
Pilkington, H.
Pine, B.
Pitkin, F.
Pollard, G.E.
Pollard, G.R.
Pope, G.A.
Porter, E.R.
Porter, H.W.
Porter, J.S.
Potter, A.
Potter, S.
Pottle, R.V.T.
Poulter, R.
Powell, A.
Powell, D.W.
Powles, W.
Pragnell, S.L.
Pratt, C.
Preston, F.H.
Priest, W.C.H.
Priestley, A.J.
Prince, G.A.
Pryor, R.A.
Puddy, R.G.
Pye, P.K.
Quantrell, O.
Quigley, A.
Quinn, H.
Quinney, G.
Radford, R.
Raine, G.H.
Ramsay, W.D.
Rann, F.
Razey, A.E.
Read, R.V.
Reed, W.G.F.
Reid, D.
Restell, A.E.
Reynolds, D.A.
Richards, W.M.
Ridsdale, G.H.
Riley, J.
Ritchie, R.C.
Roberts, A.
Roberts, F.W.
Roberts, T.O.
Robertson, N.G.
Robertson, R.U.
Robins, C.F.
Rollo, D.
Roper, S.D.
Ross, G.I.McL.
Ross, T.W.
Roupell, M.P.

Rouse, P.
Rowell, A.W.
Roxborough, T.
Royal, W.D.
Ruck, W.S.
Russell, W.F.E.
Rustell, S.
Rutherford, J.J.
Rutter, W.
Ryall, M.G.
Ryan, M.J.
Ryan, W.D.
Sa-ib-a, L.
Sandford, F.W.C.
Sandham, G.M.
Savage, C.H.
Savage, W.J.B.
Scarlett, A.
Schiavone, E.
Schofield, R.
Scott, W.
Searle, J.G.
Seaton, E.F.
Seeley, E.J.
Senlor, F.
Sharp, R.
Shaw, S.
Shepherd, G.
Sheppard, E.W.
Sheriff, J.G.
Shorrock, K.W.
Short, W.
Sibley, A.
Sibley, C.
Simmons, J.S.
Simmons, O.A.J.
Simpson, G.R.
Simpson, J.R.
Simpson, R.H.
Simpson, S.
Sinclair, G.W.
Sinclair, W.
Slade, S.J.
Slawson, W.
Small, W.
Smith, C.J.
Smith, D.E.
Smith, D.H.
Smith, G.
Smith, G.W.
Smith, H.
Smith, J.A.
Smith, R.
Snellock, R.A.
Sorley, J.N.
Spalding, R.F.J.
Sparrow, L.
Spelman, D.B.T.
Spence, W.G.
Spencer, A.K.
Spencer, C.J.
Spencer, H.
Spencer, W.H.
Spicer, H.H.
Squires, L.G.
Stables, G.
Stanbridge, H.W.
Standen, G.H.
Stanley, A.G.
Stanley, C.J.
Stannard, W.E.
Steele, C.A.
Steele, R.F.

Stemp, N.H.
Stephens, H.
Stephens, M.W.
Stephenson, J.G.
Stevens, H.J.
Stevenson, E.J.
Stevenson, J.
Stewart, D.C.C.
Stewart, H.
Stokes, H.J.
Stokes, J.L.
Stone, W.F.
Strickley, H.F.
Summersby, F.
Sumner, P.
Sutherland, H.J.
Talbot, F.G.
Tanner, B.C.
Targett, T.H.
Taylor, D.
Taylor, E.G.
Taylor, R.J.
Taylor, S.
Taylor, W.M.
Tee, J.G.
Tester, C.A.
Thirkell, R.
Thomas, R.A.
Thompson, J.
Thompson, R.
Thompson, R.
Thomson, J.
Thorne, L.F.
Thwaites, R.W.
Tidey, A.E.
Tiplady, T.
Todd, G.
Touse, J.W.
Townsend, T.H.
Trayfoot, A.G.
Treleaven, C.N.E.
Trenholm, T.W.
Trevett, E.M.
Trussler, L.G.
Tuckwood, W.S.
Turner, S.V.
Tutton, R.E.
Usmar, H.W.B.
Vass, B.
Vass, D.
Vass, H.
Vass, H.
Vine, J.
Wadsworth, A.H.
Wakefield, H.
Walker, C.
Walker, D.
Walker, E.
Walker, F.
Wallace, A.J.
Walton, J.H.
Ward, G.
Ward, G.
Ward, R.D.
Warner, L.J.
Warriner, J.B.
Waterfield, W.A.
Waterman, V.P.
Watkins, S.M.
Watson, G.
Watson, J.
Watson, R.H.
Watson, W.

[moscowexile]

My old next door neighbour, Tommy, served in the RN and was in Scapa when the Royal Oak was torpedoed. He told me that the old World War I "battlewagon" was nothing more than a floating barracks, too antiquated to put to sea and that the majority of those that died on board were new, green ratings.

My neighbour served in the navy throughout the Second World War; for the bulk of his war service he was a submariner.

He was also my workmate. He retired in 1980 when he was 65 years old; I was only a 30-year-old "lad" then. We both worked in the local coal mines. I used to be surprised at how many of my older workmates down the pit had been submariners during WWII.

My old mate, Tommy, had joined up immediately at the outbreak of the war so as to escape the drudgery of life "down the pit", volunteering for the RN. Not long after he had joined the Senior Sevice, coal mining was made a "restricted industry", namely one from which the manpower could not be drafted as it was too vital for the war effort.

He explained to me that the RN used to sort out the "pit lads" for "the silent service". The navy logic was simple: it was expensive to train a submariner and, no matter how well a trainee submriner had done during his induction and training, if he cracked up under the claustrophobic conditions of a WWII submarine, all that training had been a waste of time and money. Miners, they reckoned, would find living in a cramped, stuffy steel tube a piece of cake.

It seems, judging by the number of ex-submariners that I met working down the pit, that they were absolutely correct.

Tommy must be dead now, although he was still alive and kicking in 2003 when I last was in the UK.

He was a tough old nut.

[Kipparikalle]

It's nice to know that you have War Veterans as your neightbours.

And honor to the mens lost on that ship, I can't imagine the horror when being deep in the ship, the only way out is blocked by a door that got stuck on its place due to the blast of torpedoes, and watch as the water rises around you.

And honor to everyone lost on war(s)

[Freiwillige]

Yea I kind of whondered if I should not have posted all of the names of those lost but my excitment of sinking the Royal Oak was tempered by the research that followed that mission. After all there are 3 Martins on that ship and I am a Martin. Kinda strikes close to home if you know what I mean. A very sombre feeling.

Here's to those who were lost.

[quote]"He told me that the old World War I "battlewagon" was nothing more than a floating barracks, too antiquated to put to sea and that the majority of those that died on board were new, green ratings."

I beleive she was sea worthy and was out with the fleet right before the incedent.
Also Had Prein been to Scapa a few days earlier he would have caught the majority of the northern fleet at anchor. A great what if scenario.

I found out that she had just been out to sea looking for the Scharnhorst early oktober but her sea speed of less than 20 kts was holding up the fleet and also she was battered by the winter storms and was in bad shape when she returned to scapa.

[moscowexile]

Oh she was seaworthy, all right, but slow and well past her "sell-by" date. She was antiquated because the limitations of the Washington Naval Treaty prevented the construction of "state-of-the-art" big-gun capital ships: the Kriegsmarine tore up the Washington Treaty when Bismark and Deutschland etc. were built.

In fact, all capital, big-gun ships were past their sell-by date in 1939. But the "big-gun" admirals yearned for a classic surface fleet action, another Trafalgar as it were, just as they did in round one, 1914-1918.

The penny finally dropped for the British "big-gun" admirals when H.M.S. Prince of Wales and H.M.S. Repulse were sunk by Japanese aircraft in 1942; the U.S. navy still lined up its beautiful, magnificent battleships in "Battleship Alley", Pearl Harbor until December 1940, in preparation for the day when they too might have to have a surface "Schlagfest" with the Imperial Japanese fleet.

With the U.S. navy too, the penny also quickly and bloodily dropped about the the role of navy "wings" and at Midway neither fleet saw each other, the contest being determined by airpower.

My former neighbour told me that many of the Royal Oak ratings were "boy sailors": in the Royal Navy you could become a "boy sailor" at 15.

"Jack" Cornwell VC was only 16 when he died of wounds received at the Battle of Jutland, 1916: he was a gun-layer on the cruiser H.M.S. Chester with a rating of "Boy Sailor First Class". Jack Cornwell stayed at his post, a 5.5 inch gun, even though the rest of the crew had been slain and he had received mortal wounds in his chest from shell plinters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cornwell

Like the U.S.S. Arizona at Pearl Harbor, H.M.S. Royal Oak remains to this day a 29,000 ton tomb.

[bigboywooly]

Aye the Oak was seaworthy but deemed too slow to keep up with the rest of the fleet
Luftwaffe ariel shots had shown the bulk of the home fleet in Scapa before U 47 got her orders
Unfortunately the fleet had sailed in response to a German ploy to bring them out
The Oak was left behind and the fleet docked at Loch Ewe leaving the old Oak as the only major target left in Scapa by the time Prien got there

[Pikes]

Haha, i read up on it last night and saw GWX had recreated the mission. So i pulled up Prien's route in and copied it. We must have done the same thing, i was at the troop transport and destroyer near the north end of Scapa...

Thankfully i was listening to an audio interview with Silent Otto on the net and reading up so was in no rush, did the whole thing on x1 speed and i picked up the Royal Oak behind me, as you said, out of position . Unlike Prien though i sent the full four into her and she went dark....unlike the rest of the harbour. I had previously sent tube 5 onto the troop ship behind me, i was out by a good 15 seconds but it was near enough simultaneous.

She went down quietly, no big bangs, there after 5 minutes, listing slightly towards me, not there after 20 minutes when i peeked again (as a DD began a DC run at me).

Probably enough time for a lot more folk to have gotten off.

I played it in the day and couldnt see anything in the dark with the brightness of the room so I didnt feel I cheated too much. Prien expected more ships, I expected less! I wish i had his torpedo crew though, my guys were all "!". 23mins per torp isnt particularly fair considering they had been idle up until then:o Prien had two shots.

From a realism vs excitement aspect I was pleased the mission was there and pretty good fun - probably because it didnt play the same way as the historical incident. On the realism side you cant see very far, no way i could even see the BB from 3k yds, let alone identify it. I know Prien had the "northern lights" but he also didnt have at least 4 DD's on "ready 5" ;).

Played it from my save game a couple of times and my sub is doomed if i fire from the inside, even submerged. I can sit on the bottom all quiet and im still blown to pieces inside 10 minutes. If i ran, i'm going past two destroyers parked... Doing that for real, i would have taken the first DD and never bothered going any deeper into Scapa or discoved the Royal Oak. I think i was looking for it rather than playing it objectively. But i'm inspired to write it again accurately and see how it goes. (Rather boring i imagine!)

From a karma perspective, Prien died later in the war, suggestions it was possibly by one of his own malfunctioning torps circling. I think the game does inspire an appreciation about the real circumstances of war but I like the way we are far enough away from that period in time to be able to put it into perspective in the current modern world. There's a nice balance on this website with a mature respect of the past. Don't think my Grandad would have understood how i could enjoy playing the German's so much though ... :D

Right time for me to 'scapa'!

[Tessa]

Raiding Scapa isn't too bad long as you plan ahead. Knowing that there's gonna be 4-6 destroyers to make it out you're probably gonna need to take a few of them out. Once you get into the harbor there's usually at least 1, sometime 2 DD's that are sitting idle, take them out first and then hug the coast to position yourself for whatever targets are moored there. Gotta watch out for the subnets, they can either ruin your shot or cause major damage. Have found hiding next to a sunken ship is generally a good place to reload as it doesn't seem to attract attention.

If/when you find yourself getting harrassed by a DD there's an easy way to take them out; just have to be prepared and hope you don't get a dud. Once they pass over you pop up your attack scope and wait till they hit 300m; fire a T1a at fast speed and there's a very good chance they won't have enough time to accelerate or turn much. In such short range can usually score a shot directly to the stern and blow it to pieces.

[Bosje]

Good morning Kaleuns

first of all: Hey everyone, great forum. I've been reading it for a couple months now while playing SH3 stock. loving it.

I too had a career in U-47, starting in Kiel sept. '39.
Sunk 1 C2 and hurried back just to be able to have a new patrol start in the first week of october. succeeded in this, even though it meant not being able to do any upgrades on the boat. So there I was, just east off Kirk Sound, watching the sunset, preparing to do it. date: october 9th. I saved the game, against my principle but it has crashed on me before and also i wanted to be able to replay it.

zooming in on the map didnt show any ship barriers, just solid landmass on the historic approach (holm sound iirc). having a look around with the free camera revealed solid landmass too. being disappointed by this i just snuffed it there and then. i thought it might be a bug or glitch so i just ran the sub through it and, of course, died.

reloaded at sunset, sailed all the way around the orkneys for a western approach. spotted by the shore batteries, bit of damage but nothing serious, all those sleeping DDs were on my sterntube though. i may sound like a nubje but i've played all the silent hunter games for a bit, so between 23:00 and 03:00 i sunk 5 destroyers, using about 8 torpedoes. (best thing to happen was the moored DDs searching for a bit, then going back to sleep wherever they were. 2 hunts and a tribal were easy prey on 2 kilometer shots).

after clearing the searchlights i surfaced inside the mooring. keeping at least 2,5k between myself and the remaining Hunt(ed). 4 bow shots at 3 km into the Royal Oak, close to abeam. still on the surface with the hunt now behind me. As soon as the first fish hit, and i am talking the very second, those 6 or so 5inch? guns opened up on me. they didnt hit me but i was still annoyed. I heard 3 torps hit, possibly a 4th. 2 hunts on my tail. I ran, was spotted, had half a minute of gun battle (very bad idea), was down to 12% hull but still alive and after some dodgy minutes they had given up on the hunt. So there I was. somewhere in between the heavily listing, but still apparently operational, Battleship and the shore batteries. one hunt laying still between me and the BB, the other back on his patrol round. I saved the game again, successfully slipped out (using a bit of submerged time compression, i was alarmed when it suddenly went to 4x, glanced through the obs. periscope, gave a hard right and missed the wreck of a hunt by about 1 metre). Made it back to Kiel eventually after venting my frustrations on a tugboat off scapa. Using the free camera, the last I saw of the Royal Oak, it was listing to the point where her keel was about 1 meter away from hitting the bottom. those secondary guns were still manned by guys sitting about 2 meters below the waves. I didnt get credit for it, in fact i only got a couple hundred renown for sinking some DDs, and 2 silly iron cross 2nd class.

I loaded the last save, went back in, submerged in front of the sitting DD while running 1/2 speed. while not being spotted even at 2kilometers, i was instantly heard when submerged. Dead.

All this had taken me an entire day. A very interesting and exciting day but I still have to actually officially sink the Royal Oak.

[Bosje]

So I made another run, reloaded from the sunset east off Scapa, went around the south this time. (night, the sea is like a mirror, i can make 16 knots while not getting spotted. closest observation i had was 2200 meters, all remains quiet. hugging the coasts, sneaking my way past all the little islands etc, i sneaked past 5 patroling DDs, into the backdoor which opens southwest of the mooring, at the same point where i had ended up on my western run. there was a net, i figured i should be able to drive the boat over that thing at 1kts while blowing ballast. the game thought otherwise and decided to destroy my sub for brushing some iron cables. I was annoyed, went back in, this time straight for the big gap to the south of the mooring. submerged just off the net which is there, there is an opening in the net which brings you close to the shore lights there. so i went around the net at periscope depth, now leaving all those patrolling destroyers at least 2 or 3 km behind me. one patrolling DD in front of me, 3 DDs sitting still (the ones i had killed on my western run).

The plan was to sneak submerged to the point where Prien originally ended up, sink the 2 sleeping DDs there with bow shots while sinking the Tribal next to the Royal Oak with a stern shot. that would leave just 1 Hunt in the immediate area. try to lose that one while reloading, put 4 fish in the BB and see where things go from there. I thought it was a good plan but I didnt feel like doing the 4km sneaking in real time. I later read on these forums that time compression will result in submerged detection and indeed before i can figure out what went wrong there are 5 or 6 destroyers depthcharging me in shallow waters. as i run flank to keep alive from one run, the others hear me and make a run of their own. managed to stay alive for 10 minutes but finally i got hit hard, heavy flooding, hit the ground, dead.

so thats about 5 attempts. died on 4 of them, back in kiel after the first one but never got the kill credits. screw you guys i'm going home. i'm annoyed because i cant get in through the historical path (i presume i need GWX for that?), because the Royal Oak is all but kapseized and still has her guns manned by scuba divers, because time compression messed with my best attempt to date (inside the mooring without so much as a searchlight switching on), because my hull is destroyed by brushing along a net at 1 kts. Anyway, the date is september 3rd 1939. Im in command of a typeII, spent 2 days in the dock looking at my shiny new 2cm gun being installed, as i leave wilhelmshaven i get a funk that British shipping is now fair game and I have a boat full of new recruits. This time, I'm gonna kick some sterns.

I'll stick to DiD from now on, even if i had sunk the Royal Oak, I would have felt unsatisfied because I reloaded a saved game.

Oh wait, my first name in real life actually is 'Bernard'. Perhaps thats where the problem lies?

[Freiwillige]

Yea maybe you need GWX for that? I stayed under from my entrance past the block ships (Historical route) to my exit. silent running w/ time compression

[Pikes]

i have GWX and i would think maybe you do as all the block ships are there and the exact route etc. and GWX is well worth having, its a different game. if you do nothing else with your bandwidth all month, go download it.

:)