Clayp, I feel your pain

[Slick Wilhelm]

Clayp, I was reading about your troubles shadowing that convoy, and was thinking "Poor guy, hope that doesn't happen to me". Well, as you may guess, nearly the same thing happened last night.

Working out of Manila on my first patrol of my first career, in about twenty days of solid patrolling, I've managed to find one whole Japanese freighter, a small composite one in the Java Sea. Of course she was zigzagging, and because of this, I porked my setup and three fish I fired at her missed. I'm doing the TMO/ROW mods, using 100% realism. Not wanting to waste any more of the government's money on torpedoes, I decided to surface and sink her with my deck gun. No problems there, at least my gunners are worth their salt.

So, I'm no longer a virgin, and things were looking up. I stopped at Surabaja to rearm/refuel, and then headed north to patrol the Makassar Straight. The seas were rough, very high waves and I was fighting a gale force headwind. Lo and behold, my watch crew shouts a warning "Warship sighted, 002, long range!"

I ordered flank speed and the chase began. What started out as a lone IJN destroyer, turned out to be a huge convoy, looking like it was headed for the Celebes area, or perhaps Leyte. I ended up staying up way past my bedtime last night, as I spent the next two hours desperately trying to overtake this convoy, which was inconveniently heading nearly parallel to my original course. I could not coax more than 9 knots out of the old girl, because of the wind & mountainous waves. Oh yes, the chase started out at around 19:30, so the approaching darkness was making it difficult to keep an eye on the convoy.

Eventually, I decided that I wasn't going to catch the convoy until the seas calmed down, so I ordered a dive to 60ft and took a bearing on the convoy, with the thought of tracking it via sonar until the seas were calm enough to over take the convoy. Unfortunately, sometime during the night I guessed wrong on the convoy's course, and I lost them. Of course, in the morning the seas calmed down and by sunrise, it was smooth as glass, and the S-37 was able to do 12 knots at flank speed. But, alas, the convoy had slipped from my grasp. Crushed and disappointed in my performance, I went to bed....a dejected and forelorn captain.

But, tomorrow is another day......

[Rockin Robbins]

The exact situation happened to me. I was in a storm and couldn't see 100 yards. That's when this convoy came by with six merchies and four escorts. I was playing the stock game then, so I sailed right on through the escorts, stuck myself in the middle of the convoy and couldnt draw a bead on my own shadow! I sailed in the middle of the convoy for a day and a half and posted just like you did, "What do I do now?" I got about as helpful suggestions as you got. It was the most frustrating experience I've had in the game.

You did the right thing, stuck in there and searched for answers. Sometimes you get the elevator and sometimes you get the shaft. Sail away and find more targets. A collision at sea could have ruined your whole day!:up:

But keep the chin up. You're undefeated until they sink you!:rock:

[ReallyDedPoet]

But keep the chin up. You're undefeated until they sink you!:rock:

Yes this :yep::up: You won't be sunk here clay, we got you covered ;)


RDP

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Fork over $100 and I'll shadow you and sink 'em for you, whaddya say? Hell, I'd even sink RDP for ya! I'll be fun!:yep::lol:

Mods LOCK THIS THREAD NOW!!:yep: I feel the heat of another Flame War! In fact it'll break a record for 4 locked threads in one day!:yep:

[clayp]

Well thanks for the words and sentiment guys..The problem is you all are much better players then me,its taking a long time for me to learn the ropes..I had a thread going dictating my troubles and getting tips and just like in the past and I have no idea why a guy up and calls me a liar so I had the thread locked..This is why I really miss Dave....:cry: Besides being a great guy and a friend I could always count on him to help me..I think I'm going to step away from the game for awhile..

[AVGWarhawk]

Sometimes when playing you have to realize that weather, broken sub, fast moving convoy or any cause just might have your crew sit there watching your fat prize sail away. I have often sailed away in my head down knowing I will not get the chance to sink a few.

Clayp you can PM me anytime you like! You know I will do what I can to help you out. :up:

[Midnight Hunter]

Well thanks for the words and sentiment guys..The problem is you all are much better players then me,its taking a long time for me to learn the ropes..I had a thread going dictating my troubles and getting tips and just like in the past and I have no idea why a guy up and calls me a liar so I had the thread locked..This is why I really miss Dave....:cry: Besides being a great guy and a friend I could always count on him to help me..I think I'm going to step away from the game for awhile..

Don't let the words of one person stop you from playing this wonderfull game. I am facing many of the same issues you face being a new guy here, but I have found that 99% of the community members are beyond helpfull. Starting from scratch on such an advanced sim can be frustrating to say the least.. feel free to PM me as well, I have gone through many of the growing pains you are experiencing and may have some tips and tricks that you can benefit from. :up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Hey, some of the youngsters are just a bit full of themselves and are in full strut mode. Anything I can help with PM me and we'll figure it out. We're here to help. You have a lot of friends on Subsim. Don't let one unfortunate comment shut you down. Count up your supporters. I see six of them right here and more are lurking.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I think I'm going to step away from the game for awhile..

Listen to some of the suggestions here clay, folks are willing to help.


RDP

[1480]

It was my fault and I do apologize whole heartedly to ClayP. I sent him a pm about it but I figured I should make it public to the rest of the community. I sometimes forget that the medium we use never lets us truely convey the sincerity or conversely the lack there of, to others, as say face to face or via telephone. I truly hope ClayP reads this and the pm and considers this to be water under the bridge.

[Slick Wilhelm]

Good on ya, 1480. It's so easy to mis-perceive someone else's post. I whole-heartedly salute you for apologizing. Hopefully clayp will accept it and we can all gather around for a big...

GROUP HUG! :()1:

[1480]

I got the 1st round of Rhinelanders and Makers Mark shorties instead :arrgh!: .

[Rockin Robbins]

Good on ya, 1480. It's so easy to mis-perceive someone else's post. I whole-heartedly salute you for apologizing. Hopefully clayp will accept it and we can all gather around for a big...

GROUP HUG! :()1:

I just had that happen in a PM! Update to number of clayp supporters: 7 and growing! And I count 1480 as supporter #1. Good deal, 1480. You figured out what was going on and didn't hesitate to make things right.:up:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Big of ya 1480, but does this mean I don't get any money?:lol:

[swdw]

Clayp, if you counted the number of ships and convoy contacts lost by real skippers before radar trying to outguess where the enemy was going, you'd find you're in very good company.:up:

If you totaled the number of aborted attacks by real skippers because of bad weather, loss of visual and sonar contact at the last moment, or bad guessing as to the convoys base course, you'd again be in some really good company. :yep:

What made the sub aces wasn't infallibility, it was persistance in being willing to shake off a bad situation and go into the next one with a positive outlook about their chances in the new engagement.:arrgh!:

So keep your chin up, there's always a new chance to do well looming over the horizon.

And we're rootin for ya all the way!:rock:

As for us SH4 players. here's an example that shows a bad day can happen to anyone.

I picked up a task force and was in a great position. THe task force was only doing 14 knots, so I took my boat in an end run at flank as I was drooling at the chance at a battleship or a couple of cruisers.

Stoopid me, I forgot to check the local sunrise time. I wsa just about in position where I could dive and make a submerged approach when I was silhouetted by the sunrise only 5000 yds from the convoy. Even with a crash dive I was holed by a couple of destroyer rounds and had some critical damage to deal with. Thankfully the TF escort only dropped a few DC's and left as the hull was damaged and she probably couldn't have taken much more.

So for an all night run, I got zip, didn't even get a torpedo off, and now had a damaged boat that could only make 14 knots top speed instead of 20.

This is the same boat that later jumped a convoy of 6 freighters and 2 escorts and made 2 seperate attack runs. Of course because I use the RFB mod I had 3 hits for damage to the freighters, 4 duds, 4 under runners/ gyro failures and 3 prematures. No sinkings:damn:

Not exactly what I would call a stellar performance. At the end of the patrol I'd exhausted all my fish and scored one sampan and one small composite freighter that I had to finish off with the deck gun because only one torpedo hit and exploded and I was out of fish.:nope:

Yet, this is the same person on another patrol that snuck into the middle of a TF and sank one BB, one CA and damaged another CA.

So having a bad experience doesn't mean you're a bad player, it means you had a bad day. Keep playing, and on the bad days, go have a beer and a pizza.

[Midnight Hunter]

SWDW.. that is a great post, it is truely hard for new players or people having trouble to feel good about the game when they come here and hear stories of guys busting 50000 tonnes on thier first patrol with a "sugar" boat and never missing a shot and so on... I know for myself (and clayp you should do this too) as soon as I get a "ship spotted" message I save the game and pause, evaluate what I need to do, plan out my method of attack and then unpause and do it. I figure until I can get better and actually hit what I shoot at more than 1/3 of the time I need every advantage I can get :smug:

Now I am to the point where I plan on the fly and can get into good position and play like a hole in the water, now if I could only aim :damn: :damn: :damn:

[clayp]

SWDW thanks for the words....

[Rockin Robbins]

SWDW.. that is a great post, it is truely hard for new players or people having trouble to feel good about the game when they come here and hear stories of guys busting 50000 tonnes on thier first patrol with a "sugar" boat and never missing a shot and so on... I know for myself (and clayp you should do this too) as soon as I get a "ship spotted" message I save the game and pause, evaluate what I need to do, plan out my method of attack and then unpause and do it. I figure until I can get better and actually hit what I shoot at more than 1/3 of the time I need every advantage I can get :smug:

Now I am to the point where I plan on the fly and can get into good position and play like a hole in the water, now if I could only aim :damn: :damn: :damn:
Not only that but don't be ashamed to use some of the "easy" settings. They're not cheating they're learning tools. A game that doesn't get played because it's too frustrating is no good to anybody.

And when you find yourself with a convoy in sight, do a special save! Call it "Convoy in Sight" or something. Then if the attack goes south you can load it up and go again.

Even (or especially!) if the attack does NOT go south, load it up and go again to see what else you can learn. Yes, you know already that it's on course 347 at 9 knots, but now you can just use what you already know and concentrate on things you didn't have time for last time.

Running through the exact same situation four or five times can teach you more than you can imagine. And saving the game lets you get skunked and know you can go for it again to see if you can change anything.

So: USE THE EASY SETTINGS (we won't tell:88))
SAVE THE GAME BEFORE AN ATTACK (do it over if....:damn:)

And have fun!!!!!!!!!!:up:

[Midnight Hunter]

I had been doing just that, but I have been having issues that even with automatic targetting my weapons officer must be on crack because I still miss (event camera on) more than 50% of my shots with a 90 AOB and all stop from about 1000 yards (set up a mission to practice on) I don't know how or why so I just said the hell with it, if he misses 50% of the time then I may as well do it on manual and miss the same amount.. atleast I will feel good when I do hit a ship :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

Midnight, the reason for that is that the estimate you get is dependent on .......hold it. I thought I had something to contribute here, but you're on auto. It's a mystery because I don't know anything about auto targeting!

I encourage you to miss 50% of your shots manual targeting, though. It's a LOT more fun! Be sure to check out WernerSobe's instructional videos and I have a seminar on the Dick O'Kane targeting technique on page 4 of his thread that will really help you if you get into the SH4UBM add-on! Manual targeting isn't as hard as it first appears. Go for it.:up:

[Midnight Hunter]

I have seen the videos, and to be honest, I "tried" to read your thread and with all the story telling in it I honestly couldn't follow what you were trying to instruct :doh: lol... I am more of a "by the book" when trying to learn, so although you were doing it for immersion into the whole teaching thing, it left me going WTF!?!?!? And after following what the videos said step by step I found that my position keeper was WAY off, I finally went to youtube and found a vid there that went step by step and I have since used that method and hit a little more often that I used to. I would be interested in looking at your method if you could do a step by step without all the other distracting stuff (distratcing to me anyways) and explain a little more how and why you are doing what you are doing and where the values come from and etc..

But thanks for all your tips and advice :) greatly appreciated


by the way.. clayp if you are interested in the video that REALLY helped me with manual targetting (for when you do catch those pesky convoys) here is the link


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y58dWSILYY

and here is the write up he gives to go along with it:

1. Identify your target.
Your targeting-computer needs to know the mast height for it to estimate range accurately. First, find your target with periscope-view and lock onto it by pressing "L". Bring up the recognition-manual with the "N" key. Flip through it until you find the correct ship (can be tricky). Then press the little red "ok" box to choose it.

2. Start the position keeper by pressing the white button on the left panel so that it lights up red.
It will keep track of the ship and make sure your torpedoes go where they should.

3. Estimate range by clicking the range-tool on the TDC-dial to the right. A "ghost image" should appear. Drag this image until the waterline of it reaches the top of the mast of the bottom image. Relase, and press the red button to the upper left on the dial to send the data to the TDC. You should redo this to get a more accurate value once the target gets closer.

4. Estimate angle on bow (AOB). To do this, you need to open up the map. Zoom in so that you have both your sub and the ship you are targeting in view. Now click on the angle-calculator-thingy and measure the angle from the ships bow, to your sub like I did in the clip, starting in front of the target, drawing the first line along the centre to about the middle of the ship, then draw the second line down to the centre of your sub. The angle that shows up should now be entered into the TDC with the dial. Remeber that if your target changes heading you must take a new AOB reading.
Don´t forget to send the data to the TDC after every estimation-step.

5. Estimate target speed. The speed estimation on the chronometer was broken at release. Hopefully it will be fixed with patch 1.2. Until then you have to estimate it by observing wake-size and checking the speed on the map (slow,medium,fast).
Enter your estimated value.

6. In the left panel you can then set how deep you want your torpedoes to run (leave it alone if you are noob :)) and you can set a "spread" angle for each torpedo to compensate for the targets movement since it takes a while for the torpedo doors to open.

7. When happy with all settings, fire away!

- taken from threedotsred write up on his youtube instructional video for manual targetting

hope this helps you out, I know it worked wonders for me

[Slick Wilhelm]

MH, God bless you, sir!

This is the video I've been waiting for. I'm a "steps" guy, too, when it comes to learning something. I made a M$ Word document based on Neal's video of him attacking the Yamato-class BB. This video is what I was looking for in the first place.

I didn't understand how to use the protractor to get the AOB until this video. Great find!

Next on my list of learning "to do's" is how to use the protractor and compass to mark a contact on the map using WernerSobe's "sonar-only" method of setting up a firing solution. It's the only way I can think of to get a proper course and location of enemy ships when in a storm or in a pitch black night, with no radar. WernerSobe's video is fantastic, but it assumes that one already knows how to use the map tools.....which I don't yet.

What I find interesting is how many otherwise outstanding videos forget to teach the most fundamental aspects of the Nav map & tools. I have yet to find one that talks about nothing but how to plot on the Nav map with the tools.

[Quillan]

That's fairly simple; all bearings are relative. What that means is that the bearing is relative to the current heading of your boat. If sonar gives a target at 30° and 2750 yards away, that means it is 30° off your bow at that distance, so you'd first use the tools to draw a line 30° away from your boat, then put a mark 2750 yards down that line. The mark will be where the target is. Do that twice and you now can draw a line connecting the two points, which gives the course of the target. If you measured the time between the two with the stopwatch, you can now use the time interval and the distance between the two marks to caculate speed, and that gives you all the information you need to set up your attack.

Remember, 0° is directly forward, and the numbers go in a clockwise direction, so 90° is directly off the starboard (right) side, 180° is due astern, and 270° is directly off the port (left) side of the boat.

[Midnight Hunter]

Glad to be of service :D When I found this video it was like I was a kid in a candy store... I was jumping with glee!! Like you mention, in alot of videos some people just forget that not all of those watching even know all the real basic stuff and it gets overlooked quite often. If I find any other good sources of step by step training I will gladly PM you to see if you can use it.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have seen the videos, and to be honest, I "tried" to read your thread and with all the story telling in it I honestly couldn't follow what you were trying to instruct :doh: lol... I am more of a "by the book" when trying to learn, so although you were doing it for immersion into the whole teaching thing, it left me going WTF!?!?!?
Hmmmmmm.....Maybe I need to work up a different tutorial? I'm looking for input not just from Midnight, but from others too. Do you want an updated and drier version of the tutorial for the Dick O'Kane targeting technique? At last report I couldn't do a video, but I'll check it out again and see what I can do if there's demand for such a thing.

Let me work out the steps for the Dick O'Kane

1. check TDC to ensure PK is off.

2. Set distance on the TDC manually to the largest possible amount, about 1400 yards. You do this by dragging the triangular hairline window down as far as it will bo and pressing the send button. The exact distance entered is not important as distance cancels out of our targeting solution!

3. Plot two positions of your target 3 minutes apart if you are working in imperial measurements or 3 min 15 sec apart if you are working in (yuck!:rotfl:) metric. Use your ruler or compass to measure the distance. Whatever the units, the distance in yards/meters divided by 100 = speed in knots. 900 meters = 9 knots. 900 yards = 900 knots. Enter that in the TDC and press the send button.

4. It's time to aim your torpedo. We're going to set up a course at right angles to the target's track. Once we get there, our target is going to approach from the right or left. Because you know where he is and where you are, you know what's the easiest to set up. Let's pretend the target will pass from left to right.

4½. Set your AoB. It will be 90º minus our shooting angle from zero, which is 10º in this case = 80º either starboard (for target passing left to right) or port (for target passing right to left). Set it on the TDC and press the send button.

5. Point your periscope at bearing zero (you can do this under water to avoid detection). Now, for a high speed steam torpedo, move the scope 10º in the direction the target will come from. You will be pointing at 350 for a target coming left to right, 10º for a target moving right to left. You're shooting 10º before he gets to zero bearing. Clear? Leave the scope pointing at your planned shoot bearing and press the send range/bearing button. YOU DON"T MESS WITH THE CURSED STADIMETER! Sorry, I feel better now. Don't touch the PK either. Leave it off and save watts.

6. Guess what? Your shot is all lined up! Time to put the sub in position.

7. On your nav map, using your ruler, connect the two plotted positions and extend the line as far as seems good in the direction of the target's movement. Then with help on (open the little hand compass tool) you can use the compass rose on the ruler to measure the target's course.

5. Determine what your course will be at 90º to the track. I usually don't calculate anything. I use the protractor. Click up the track, draw the line to the point you guess will intersect with the right angle course and click a second time. Then draw the other side of the angle toward your sub. You'll see the angle at the vertex. Adjust until it says 90, make sure the line extends beside your sub and click a third time. This line is your course at right angles to the track. You can read the number using the compass rose on the ruler tool like you did earlier.

6. Take the course and get in about 700 yards from the track well before you have to shoot. No sense making this a pressure filled activity, we're all cool on this boat. Throttle down to 1 know when you are close enough to shoot.

7. You can just sit there with the scope down listening to your sonar tech read off the bearings. When he gets to about 340, raise the scope, preset to 350. If he's coming from the other way, when he gets to about 20, raise the scope, preset to 10. Yeah, I know you're going to peek before that to make sure he doesn't get squirrely on you. That's OK, just keep periscope exposure minimal.:up:

8. Open two or three torpedo doors. Your scope is pointed at your shoot bearing, not locked on the ship. Shoot torpedoes as juicy parts of the ship are in the crosshairs. That is precisely where they will hit.

9. Enjoy the results.

Any questions? Anything I left out? There will be a test!:arrgh!:

I'm thinking some screenies here and there, with a separate post over in the U-Boat section for them and I've got it!

[Midnight Hunter]

Thanks so much for this.. I am going to try it out the next time I play, now this will work good for unescorted ships, but surely you don't approach a convoy protected by a destroyer screen and close to within 700 yards do you??? If you do then I must bow down a-la wayne's world and do a "we're not worthy". I have another thread where I pointed out my inability to go undetected even while not moving with no scope raised and rigged for red and being 2000 yards away :damn: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132912

Anyways, I will try this and if I come back here with my first born in my arms I hope you will understand :smug:

PS... I hope this isn't taken as a thread hijack, but rather a posting of some material that can help aide not only clayp but the rest of us "n00bs" as we try to better our skills and join the ranks of the subsim aces!!

[Slick Wilhelm]

That's fairly simple; all bearings are relative. What that means is that the bearing is relative to the current heading of your boat. If sonar gives a target at 30° and 2750 yards away, that means it is 30° off your bow at that distance, so you'd first use the tools to draw a line 30° away from your boat, then put a mark 2750 yards down that line. The mark will be where the target is. Do that twice and you now can draw a line connecting the two points, which gives the course of the target. If you measured the time between the two with the stopwatch, you can now use the time interval and the distance between the two marks to caculate speed, and that gives you all the information you need to set up your attack.

Remember, 0° is directly forward, and the numbers go in a clockwise direction, so 90° is directly off the starboard (right) side, 180° is due astern, and 270° is directly off the port (left) side of the boat.

Quillan, I actually understand that whole "relative bearing" thing.....but what I'm having trouble with currently is:

A) Using the protractor to draw that bearing line to the target. The explanation that Midnight Hunter gave above really helped in this regard. In his example, the enemy cruiser is already on the map, so he can place the protractor in front of the crusier and then draw the AOB by then drawing the line to the middle of the crusier, then over to the middle of the player's sub. I get that part. BUT, what about when I can't see the enemy ship and I'm using sonar to establish it's bearing and range? How do I use the protractor to establish the first mark I make. I think once I get that bearing line marked, it'll be relatively easy to use the compass to get the range, and then make that first mark on the spot where the two lines intersect.

In short, when I can't see the enemy ship on the NAV map, it makes it more difficult(at least for me) to make that first mark on the NAV map. There's gotta be a video out there that shows this. If not, I may have to make it myself once I figure it out.

[Rockin Robbins]

Thanks so much for this.. I am going to try it out the next time I play, now this will work good for unescorted ships, but surely you don't approach a convoy protected by a destroyer screen and close to within 700 yards do you??? If you do then I must bow down a-la wayne's world and do a "we're not worthy". I have another thread where I pointed out my inability to go undetected even while not moving with no scope raised and rigged for red and being 2000 yards away :damn: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132912

Anyways, I will try this and if I come back here with my first born in my arms I hope you will understand :smug:

PS... I hope this isn't taken as a thread hijack, but rather a posting of some material that can help aide not only clayp but the rest of us "n00bs" as we try to better our skills and join the ranks of the subsim aces!!
That's where the story in the seminar version comes in. No technique is right for all occasions. And this technique is accurate much further away than conventional techniques, because the stadimeter is the weakest link in the chain, giving you unreliable information. The Dick O'Kane throws the stadimeter out the window. So don't be afraid to use it from much greater range.

I have the same problem with detection with escorted convoys. Often I had four escorts to deal with then when I was dealing with late 1944 in the first version of RSRD. It's fixed now. Sometimes you have no choice but to deal with the esorts first to whittle their numbers down.

I've had great luck with the tendency for multiple escorts to have one or two just stop and listen while the others pound you. Try to get the active ones behind you. Turn the PK off, Set range to the 1100 yards or so manually, just like in Dick O'Kane. Set speed zero, AoB zero. This is a point and shoot. You'll point the periscope, press the send range/bearing button and send a torpedo right down that bearing.

Now get the one or two active escorts on your tail and escape far enough to buy at least a minute. Come up to periscope depth and look for the parked ones. All you do is point, lock, press send range/bearing, open door and shoot. Goodbye escort, and it's nearly a 100% hit probability.

Now bust loose from the entire convoy, do an end around and new approach from the other side. You'll get to the merchies now!:arrgh!:

[Slick Wilhelm]

Rockin Robbins, I appreciate the virtues of the Dick O'Kane method, but I have yet to be in a position where I can always be at a 90 degree AOB for a shot. My poor old S-37 isn't fast enough to get me there. In fact, since my luck has so far decreed that I will discover enemy ships only at night, during storms....I need to use the WernerSobe "sonar-only" method. I figure that if I can master that, anything else will be easier.

Now it's perfectly possible that I'm biting off more than I can chew by choosing to learn that method first. I just thought that would be a good way to really have to know how to use the NAV map tools.

I sure do appreciate all the help, though!

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually I knew the sonar only technique almost two months before aaronblood, gutted and I developed the Dick O'Kane method, so don't feel bad! Anyway, the sonar only technique is much more fun! There's no adrenaline rush like plowing three torpedoes into a target you've never seen.:rock: Any amount of trouble learning how is worth it.

Let me take a stab at the plotting deal. First, I'm going to assume you're at all-stop when you're doing the sonar pinging. You don't have to be. But with your ruler, draw your course on the chart, extending in front of you on the correct bearing.

Now you can use the protractor to do your bearing lines. First, start out ahead of your sub and click. Move back to the middle of your sub for the second click. Then extend the other line out, reading the angle at the vertex (the middle of your sub). Extend that line out there to beyond where the target is going to be and click. Now you have a bearing line that goes through the target. You're going to have to figure bearings between 180 and 360 by calculating how many degrees before 360 they are and plotting that angle. A bearing of 270º is 90º left.

I know this stuff may be over simplified, but I want as many people to get this as can.

Now take the compass and click on the center of your sub. Extend the circle out to the distance of the target range. Where your circle crosses the bearing line is your target.

Wait 3 minutes (for imperial measurements) and do it again, plotting the new position of the target. Measuring the distance between the two positions and dividing by 100 gives you speed in knots. 750 yards is 7½ knots. Extending the line gives you the target course. Using the protractor, click ahead of him on the course line, click on him then click on your sub to measure the AoB.

You now have the course, speed and distance to enter into the TDC. You can directly enter bearing and distance from the sonar as Werner does. Click on the PK after you get a good range/bearing.

You'll hit your target!

[Midnight Hunter]

Thanks a bunch Rockin Robbins... I was wondering how in the heck to do "snap shots" like I used to do in SH3, set the TDC speed to 0 and AOB to 0 and it'll go straight out the doors... man I feel dumb for not thinking of that :damn:

[Quillan]

...but what I'm having trouble with currently is:

A) Using the protractor to draw that bearing line to the target. The explanation that Midnight Hunter gave above really helped in this regard. In his example, the enemy cruiser is already on the map, so he can place the protractor in front of the crusier and then draw the AOB by then drawing the line to the middle of the crusier, then over to the middle of the player's sub. I get that part. BUT, what about when I can't see the enemy ship and I'm using sonar to establish it's bearing and range? How do I use the protractor to establish the first mark I make. I think once I get that bearing line marked, it'll be relatively easy to use the compass to get the range, and then make that first mark on the spot where the two lines intersect.

In short, when I can't see the enemy ship on the NAV map, it makes it more difficult(at least for me) to make that first mark on the NAV map. There's gotta be a video out there that shows this. If not, I may have to make it myself once I figure it out.
Time to go looking for mods. It's in Trigger Maru by default, but what you want is the 360° bearing plotter. I hotlinked to the maker's picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KnowNothingBozo/BearingTool.jpg

and you can find the thread for it here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110133). That gives you a nice circle around your boat on the nav map showing bearings as well as range. Just draw your line down the appropriate bearing.

[swdw]

For clayp, MH, and others. I started a new thread that, hopefully, people will contribute to. "Stories of Lt. Lunkhead".

I started with a more embarassing oops. Take a look, hopefully there'll soon be plenty of stories to chuckle at.

[clayp]

For clayp, MH, and others. I started a new thread that, hopefully, people will contribute to. "Stories of Lt. Lunkhead".

I started with a more embarassing oops. Take a look, hopefully there'll soon be plenty of stories to chuckle at.


So where is this thread?

[Rockin Robbins]

Thanks a bunch Rockin Robbins... I was wondering how in the heck to do "snap shots" like I used to do in SH3, set the TDC speed to 0 and AOB to 0 and it'll go straight out the doors... man I feel dumb for not thinking of that :damn:

...to waste time feeling dumb. I hate the idea that something I say could make somebody feel dumb anyway. The whole object of SUBSIM is to learn from each other and develop an entire group of happier and better players of submarine simulations.

Dumb is when you STOP learning!:up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

For clayp, MH, and others. I started a new thread that, hopefully, people will contribute to. "Stories of Lt. Lunkhead".

I started with a more embarassing oops. Take a look, hopefully there'll soon be plenty of stories to chuckle at.

So where is this thread?

Here clay :yep:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=133045


RDP

[clayp]

I screwed up again...:oops: Starting over...I keep looking at this do it yourself torpedo fireing and I just dont get it....

[Mush Martin]

Just keep swimming clay, You can do it:up:

[clayp]

Just keep swimming clay, You can do it:up:


Thank you Mr Martin sir....:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

You can try it over and over until it all clicks. When it starts making you crazy, walk away for awhile. Then one time it will all fall together and suddenly make sense. Have patience with yourself! This isn't easy or you would have been bored a long time ago:up: