View Full Version : F-117 slipping quietly into history
Onkel Neal
03-11-08, 08:22 AM
The world's first attack aircraft to employ stealth technology is slipping quietly into history.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/US/03/11/stealth.fighter.ap/art.stealth.ap.jpg
Technicians service an F-117 stealth fighter after it arrived at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, on Monday.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif
The inky black, angular, radar-evading F-117, which spent 27 years in the Air Force arsenal secretly patrolling hostile skies from Serbia to Iraq, will be put in mothballs next month in Nevada.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/11/stealth.fighter.ap/index.html
So, what are they replacing it with? Predator drones.
:o :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Sorry to see them go, have never seen one in flight in real life. However, in fairness, a Predator drone a) has no chance of friendly casualties and b) has probably a lower radar cross-section than a Nighthawk.
Still a bloody shame though, the Nighthawk is a very unique craft, and 27 years is pretty young.
Onkel Neal
03-11-08, 08:34 AM
Yeah, time and tech moves on. If the "stealth fighter being retired because it is old tech" does not make you feel old... :dead:
It makes me think what are have they got that is replacing it and hasn't yet been publicised!
Awww! F117 is one of my favorite planes when it comes to modern era. :cry:
sonar732
03-11-08, 08:49 AM
Per the article...
The F-117 is being replaced by the F-22 Raptor, which also has stealth technology.
seafarer
03-11-08, 08:50 AM
Don't both the F-22 and the JSF have an even smaller radar cross section then the F-117 (at least without external payloads, that is). I'd kind of assumed the JSF would take over the role of the F-117?
Tchocky
03-11-08, 09:03 AM
Fifty-nine F-117s were made; 10 were retired in December 2006 and 27 since then, the Air Force said. Seven of the planes have crashed, one in Serbia in 1999.
Aye, it "crashed".
AVGWarhawk
03-11-08, 09:05 AM
Darn it Neal, I just posted this a few minutes ago :rotfl: See 'Retired'
SUBMAN1
03-11-08, 09:12 AM
Don't both the F-22 and the JSF have an even smaller radar cross section then the F-117 (at least without external payloads, that is). I'd kind of assumed the JSF would take over the role of the F-117?The F-22 and JSF have a considerably smaller radar cross section. And it can shoot back if shot at! :D
-S
elanaiba
03-11-08, 09:34 AM
What was it like for you older guys in the US to hear of the F-117 the first time (in the 80s IIRC) ?
Were you impressed/proud? Did you care?
sonar732
03-11-08, 10:05 AM
What was it like for you older guys in the US to hear of the F-117 the first time (in the 80s IIRC) ?
Were you impressed/proud? Did you care?
I remember seeing an article in Popular Mechanics and thinking wow...that's beautiful.
Fifty-nine F-117s were made; 10 were retired in December 2006 and 27 since then, the Air Force said. Seven of the planes have crashed, one in Serbia in 1999.
Aye, it "crashed".
"F 117 Cake"
The said to be only person ever to shoot down an F 117 stealth fighter, the Serbian air defence soldier “Dani”, is running a bakery now. He is also selling “F 117” cake.
http://www.balkanforum.org/thread.php?threadid=1551&sid=6ace3816fe9d60e5cd8e36667394d7d8
“Serb discusses downing of stealth”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-10-26-serb-stealth_x.htm
I've been feeling old ever since people stopped using West Germany and East Germany :lol: I still have an old toy knocking about somewhere that had "Made in West Germany" on it.
geetrue
03-11-08, 11:01 AM
What was it like for you older guys in the US to hear of the F-117 the first time (in the 80s IIRC) ?
Were you impressed/proud? Did you care?
Yes, I remember it like it was yesterday ... :p
Lets see 27 years ago I was 35 riding high on selling time-share staterooms on a little cruise ship out of Plainview Long Island, New York.
I had a sweet little 20 year old girlfriend for a secretary who insisted on taking showers with me every morning to help save water.
I can remember just about everything about that time frame, except that darn plane ... but I do remember seeing the first B-2 fly over
for a football game down in Southern California.
Wow! That was some sight ... I still think they copied a crashed UFO to build that thing ... :lol:
bradclark1
03-11-08, 11:10 AM
Fifty-nine F-117s were made; 10 were retired in December 2006 and 27 since then, the Air Force said. Seven of the planes have crashed, one in Serbia in 1999.
Aye, it "crashed".
Russians were happy.
bradclark1
03-11-08, 11:13 AM
I've been feeling old ever since people stopped using West Germany and East Germany :lol: I still have an old toy knocking about somewhere that had "Made in West Germany" on it.
I had a chunk of "The Wall" but the slime-ball thieving movers stole it on my last tour over there.
goldorak
03-11-08, 11:28 AM
I've been feeling old ever since people stopped using West Germany and East Germany :lol: I still have an old toy knocking about somewhere that had "Made in West Germany" on it.
All my Deutsche Grammophon cd's have the label "Made in West Germany". :p
Sailor Steve
03-11-08, 12:11 PM
What was it like for you older guys in the US to hear of the F-117 the first time (in the 80s IIRC) ?
Were you impressed/proud? Did you care?
Well, let's see...the 117 designation doesn't fit in with any known category; the 'F' is bogus because it in no way could every be called a fighter; it's ugly as sin (sorry guys, but that's the way I feel); and it can't even fly without the onboard computer stabilizing it every second of the way (just watch it in flight - that's why they call it the 'Wobbly Goblin').
So, to sum up: what's not to love?:rock:
seafarer
03-11-08, 12:37 PM
What was it like for you older guys in the US to hear of the F-117 the first time (in the 80s IIRC) ?
Were you impressed/proud? Did you care?
If you had been reading the right magazines (including the Weekly World News starting in about 1981/82 or so :D), the Area-51 watchers had been foretelling it's existance for a few years before it went operational in 1983 and long before the Pentagon officially owned up to its existance. I suppose technically the night-watchers out around Groom lake were really seeing YF-117 and Have-Blue "proof of concept" models before that, but still, they had it right all along (does that mean they're also right about the alien bodies in frozen storage too...:hmm:).
SUBMAN1
03-11-08, 02:32 PM
...and it can't even fly without the onboard computer stabilizing it every second of the way (just watch it in flight - that's why they call it the 'Wobbly Goblin')....Nor can you fly an F-16 without an onboard computer stabalizing it every second of the way, which is exactly the length of time it was estimated a real pilot would maintain control of an F-16 without its onboard computers - 1 to 3 seconds. :D Welcome to the most ever unstable platforms ever to grace the sky - F-22 and F-35 also fall in this catagory.
I think the F-15 and MiG-29 were the last of the 'stable' platforms. Stable platforms don't jink as well due to their stability.
-S
goldorak
03-11-08, 02:55 PM
...and it can't even fly without the onboard computer stabilizing it every second of the way (just watch it in flight - that's why they call it the 'Wobbly Goblin')....Nor can you fly an F-16 without an onboard computer stabalizing it every second of the way, which is exactly the length of time it was estimated a real pilot would maintain control of an F-16 without its onboard computers - 1 to 3 seconds. :D Welcome to the most ever unstable platforms ever to grace the sky - F-22 and F-35 also fall in this catagory.
I think the F-15 and MiG-29 were the last of the 'stable' platforms. Stable platforms don't jink as well due to their stability.
-S
Yes but what happens if the computer goes caput on unstable aircrafts ?
Can the pilot still bring the plane down safely ? :hmm:
AntEater
03-11-08, 03:17 PM
The Su 27 is inherently stable as well, but later versions for export do have a fly by wire system.
Unstable are AFAIK F-16, F-117, F/A-18, F-22, B-2, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen and maybe the Chinese J-10 and the indian LCA.
But I remember too well the first speculations about the shape of the Stealth and I even bought a Revell "F-19 Stealth" kit. I didnt buy the "MiG-35 Ferret", though
:D
SUBMAN1
03-11-08, 03:35 PM
Yes but what happens if the computer goes caput on unstable aircrafts ?
Can the pilot still bring the plane down safely ? :hmm:No. You are going down. If this happened anyway, the plane is probably full of bullet holes and can't fly worth a damn anyway.
That is also why there are 3 computers. Its a majority rules situation too, so if two agree and one doesn't, majority rules and the plane flies with the data from the two only. If all 3 disagree, then the lead computer is chosen, and you better damn well hope its right! You can fly with only one computer by the way in case 2 get shot out.
-S
PeriscopeDepth
03-11-08, 03:38 PM
Yes but what happens if the computer goes caput on unstable aircrafts ?
Can the pilot still bring the plane down safely ? :hmm:
The flight control computers are designed with redundant back up systems of course. But if that fails...something like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=faB5bIdksi8.
Sailor Steve
03-11-08, 05:31 PM
Back in the early days of the '16, we had several crashes at the Stansbury Range here in Utah. If I remember correctly, three of them were fatal. Everybody involved denied it, but the commonly accepted version was that there were problems with the early onboard computers.
Onkel Neal
03-11-08, 05:59 PM
What was it like for you older guys in the US to hear of the F-117 the first time (in the 80s IIRC) ?
Were you impressed/proud? Did you care?
Ha, impressed? I thought it was BS, propoganda. An airplane that could not be detected on radar? Shuh, yeah, right:roll:
Heh, I saw sneak peaks on Popular Science magazine and still couldn't believe it.
Yeah, I was impressed after I finally was able to accept it :)
It makes me think what are have they got that is replacing it and hasn't yet been publicised!
Yeah, true, that's usually how it works, they have stuff that easily replaces the old stuff but we just don't know what it is yet.
Per the article...
The F-117 is being replaced by the F-22 Raptor, which also has stealth technology.
Yeah, per the article....but I think the unmanned drone fits the role of the first strike platform much better than the F-22 and the JSF. Predators are small, cheap, and can be as lethal. Imagine 2000 Predators being launched againt the enemy at night to take out the radar and ESW units...
PeriscopeDepth
03-11-08, 06:13 PM
Per the article...
The F-117 is being replaced by the F-22 Raptor, which also has stealth technology.
Yeah, per the article....but I think the unmanned drone fits the role of the first strike platform much better than the F-22 and the JSF. Predators are small, cheap, and can be as lethal. Imagine 2000 Predators being launched againt the enemy at night to take out the radar and ESW units...
The unmanned drone fits the role fighters are currently being used for across the board. Fighters are now simply being used to drive to point X, loiter, and dump PGMs. And that role simply isn't what fighters were made for.
Pfffft, Predator will not replace fighters Neil. Something like these will one day replace fighters in the bomb truck role:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-45
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-47
That is if the USAF/USN ever lets them... Both programs have been cancelled. Military institutions run by former pilots are hostile to UCAVs for obvious reasons. :shifty:
PD
Wolfehunter
03-11-08, 06:55 PM
Neal when you have a chance check you PM its urgent.
I've been feeling old ever since people stopped using West Germany and East Germany :lol: I still have an old toy knocking about somewhere that had "Made in West Germany" on it.
my car has it:up: a 1970 '1600' VW bug. i call it the U-70 hahaha
sonar732
03-11-08, 10:23 PM
It's kind'of scarry to see autonomous UAV's flying around picking their own targets though.
Not to mention that the pilots still have a lot of clout on R&D.
Reminds me of the Carter Administration trying to work on a British style VTOL carrier and the current carrier pilots having their say thank god.
Yes but what happens if the computer goes caput on unstable aircrafts ?
Can the pilot still bring the plane down safely ? :hmm:No. You are going down. If this happened anyway, the plane is probably full of bullet holes and can't fly worth a damn anyway.
That is also why there are 3 computers. Its a majority rules situation too, so if two agree and one doesn't, majority rules and the plane flies with the data from the two only. If all 3 disagree, then the lead computer is chosen, and you better damn well hope its right! You can fly with only one computer by the way in case 2 get shot out.
-S Actually as far as I know, not only would the pilot lose control over the aircraft, but the airframe would disintegrate within moments of this happening unless it happened at very low speed. I think the consequences of this sort of (theoretical?) failure are supposed to be very violent for the F-16.
Hey, do you know if said failure ever actually happened? I don't think it has... I've heard rumors here and there that a couple of F-16 accidents were related to this, but I never saw any official confirmation that the system ever failed.
And think of the hundreds of thousands of flight hours that all the F-16s have between them! Unstable planes are a very very good thing, performance wise, in my view :hmm:
elite_hunter_sh3
03-11-08, 11:26 PM
stealthy??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ( i wont even start :rotfl:)
baggygreen
03-11-08, 11:30 PM
stealthy??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ( i wont even start :rotfl:)Take a look at the age of them, and the fact they were able to defeat radar for nearly 20 years. Then, take a look at how many other stealth aircraft have been developed throughout the world.
Then laugh.
Its a beautiful looking aircraft imo, its a shame that both it and the F14 are being retired so close together.
PeriscopeDepth
03-11-08, 11:46 PM
stealthy??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ( i wont even start :rotfl:)
Start what? Mention that a few Serbs got lucky and bagged one by optically guiding a 1960s era Russian SAM?
PD
Sailor Steve
03-11-08, 11:59 PM
Hey, do you know if said failure ever actually happened? I don't think it has... I've heard rumors here and there that a couple of F-16 accidents were related to this, but I never saw any official confirmation that the system ever failed.
See my post above. Not only not confirmed, but actively denied.:shifty:
Unstable planes are a very very good thing, performance wise, in my view :hmm:
Also in the view of the Wright Brothers. They made their first flyer, if not actively unstable, at least without any dihedral at all, so it would be proven that they actually had to fly it the whole way instead of just riding.
sonar732
03-12-08, 05:58 AM
stealthy??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ( i wont even start :rotfl:)
Only because the Serbs were able to pinpoint it's flightpath from "spies" essentially. As for this SAM battery commander turned baker...that's classic...saying that he listened to our AWACS and pilots sqauwk, I don't know...did you want buttercream or whipped icing with that? :rotfl::rotfl:
Konovalov
03-12-08, 06:12 AM
I've been feeling old ever since people stopped using West Germany and East Germany :lol: I still have an old toy knocking about somewhere that had "Made in West Germany" on it.
All my Deutsche Grammophon cd's have the label "Made in West Germany". :p
:D Me too.
geetrue
03-12-08, 11:54 AM
I would save all of these F-117 stealth fighters and turn them into a way
to launch from a ship, much like the old regulas missiles were launched.
Aim, point and shoot ... with or without a pilot.
The USAF built them for war ... not airshows.
XabbaRus
03-12-08, 03:21 PM
Yes but what happens if the computer goes caput on unstable aircrafts ?
Can the pilot still bring the plane down safely ? :hmm:
The flight control computers are designed with redundant back up systems of course. But if that fails...something like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=faB5bIdksi8.
Hey listen to the sound at the very end of the clip. Sounds like a TIE fighter to me flying over. :D
SUBMAN1
03-12-08, 03:46 PM
Hey, do you know if said failure ever actually happened? I don't think it has... I've heard rumors here and there that a couple of F-16 accidents were related to this, but I never saw any official confirmation that the system ever failed. See my post above. Not only not confirmed, but actively denied.:shifty: I thought those were chocked up to G-Lock?
-S
StarFox
03-13-08, 01:31 AM
sad to see them go, but they had their run. Hope they do a better job saving them then they did the Tomcats
Sailor Steve
03-13-08, 01:39 AM
Hey, do you know if said failure ever actually happened? I don't think it has... I've heard rumors here and there that a couple of F-16 accidents were related to this, but I never saw any official confirmation that the system ever failed. See my post above. Not only not confirmed, but actively denied.:shifty: I thought those were chocked up to G-Lock?
-S
Probably, but none of us plane-watchers were convinced. Rumors abound. You should hear the one about Dugway and the dead sheep.
Anyone remember playing the F117 Flightsim?
http://takegame.com/simulators/pictures/f117.jpg
It used to be one of my favourites back in the day. Not bad graphics for it's time either.
nikimcbee
03-13-08, 12:15 PM
What was the operating cost for these planes? They seem expensive to up keep.
Jimbuna
03-13-08, 01:42 PM
What was the operating cost for these planes? They seem expensive to up keep.
TarJaks ?.....I reckon about Aussie $5 to own outright http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif
Syxx_Killer
03-13-08, 01:47 PM
Anyone remember playing the F117 Flightsim?
http://takegame.com/simulators/pictures/f117.jpg
It used to be one of my favourites back in the day. Not bad graphics for it's time either.
haha Yes! I used to love that game. It was on a Windows 3.1 computer that was given to us at the time. I spent a LONG time trying to figure things out. Once I did, though, it was tremendous fun. :rock: I still have it on floppy disks somewhere.
I saw an F-117 flyover at an airshow here in MI about seven or eight years ago. It was an awesome sight. I don't remember where it came from, but it did a fly-over of Selfridge AFB from out of state.
What was the operating cost for these planes? They seem expensive to up keep.
TarJaks ?.....I reckon about Aussie $5 to own outright http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gifNot even that much mate. You can DL it for free: http://takegame.com/simulators/htm/f117.htm:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
mrbeast
03-13-08, 06:35 PM
I was lucky enough to see two F-117s and a B2 in flight a few years ago in South Wales. Was down there on holiday and stopped at a petrol station and they over flew us and headed off over the valley.To say they looked other-worldly would be an understatement the B2 seemed to just hang there in the sky like it was hovering. I think they were flying back after an airshow or something. :smug: :up:
Skybird
03-13-08, 06:49 PM
I feel even older when thinking about the space shuttles going that path soon, too. I was at school when there was a lot of talking about these new wonderful technical miracles - real orbiters, returning to earth like a glider! - was around, making them sound like science fiction. I still have a 2 hours cassette recording with a feature on how it was constructed, and the like. Lots of sound samples from the NASA installations and assembly hals, interviews with engineers, and such (SFB - Sender Freies Berlin - had a europe-wide famous radioplay and feature section back in that time, winning plenty of international radio awards for it's productions).
That were fascinating times, full of magic, and with plenty of future! :yep:
nikimcbee
03-14-08, 05:37 AM
What was the operating cost for these planes? They seem expensive to up keep.
TarJaks ?.....I reckon about Aussie $5 to own outright http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif
You mean the box he painted black with "F-117" written on the side in crayon? Yeah, that was rather odd to see him run around in the front yard in his "stealth fighter.":rotfl:
Jimbuna
03-14-08, 06:51 AM
LOL :rotfl:
Anyone remember playing the F117 Flightsim?
http://takegame.com/simulators/pictures/f117.jpg
It used to be one of my favourites back in the day. Not bad graphics for it's time either.
haha Yes! I used to love that game. It was on a Windows 3.1 computer that was given to us at the time. I spent a LONG time trying to figure things out. Once I did, though, it was tremendous fun. :rock: I still have it on floppy disks somewhere.
I saw an F-117 flyover at an airshow here in MI about seven or eight years ago. It was an awesome sight. I don't remember where it came from, but it did a fly-over of Selfridge AFB from out of state.
Was one of my first revell kit that I built! I remember my father bringing the kit home. During the 1º gulf war, their was boom of revell airplane kits here.
The game, I never was able to take off in the f-117 and F-19(that I also manage to get a die-cast model in a "chinese shop" [was not a chinese shop,because at the time only existed shops that sold everyting made in china,but were not chinese in the term.]) games. The only flight sim that I manage to take off was the F-15 (and of course, chuck yeager, but can't remenber if the last was from microprose!) because I hit the A-key! Anyone that played F-117 and F-19 hit what key to put the plane to take off?
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