Critique my tactics

[predavolk]

So it's 1939, 2nd or 3rd patrol (don't remember), and I'm off the West coast of England/Scotland intercepting a convoy. I don't really have to nail it, and could almost certainly find better pickings in solo ships. Which I am tempted to do. But I tried to go in any how. It's about 6 AM (dark, but not pitch), the water is glass, and the sky is clear. I've read several threads/articles on convoy attack, and the advice is varied. But the most frequent tactic is what I did in my last attack (I mainly wanted to try other types first for my own learning's sake)- go in slow, attack, go really deep.

I pick up the convoy, run in on the surface to 4500M, get spotted by a Black Flower Corvette, lucky gun hit ends me quickly.

OK, don't go in on the surface. Make a run in, speed up to ahead 1/3 at periscope depth to line up a shot, get detected, DC'd to death by escorts.

OK, don't go above ahead slow. Make a run in, nail 3 or 4 ships (not sure, but get 4 hits on 5 torps), one confirmed kill before I go under (coal ship- 1 2M impact torp). Descend slowly to 100M. At 60 M, rear escort starts to ping. I turn towards him to get bow-on so as to reduce sound reflection signal. As soon as I start turning, his pinging picks up. At 90 M, get reports that we're being pinged, 100M get nailed by depth charges and sink into the depths- implosion.

So, what did I do wrong? Should I have immediately gone to flank and tried to get deep faster? I did linger to fire all my torps- do you really have to be on your way down before the first impact? Should I avoid turning at all when trying to be silent? Is there anything you can do when being pinged deep other than go deeper and pray? Forget convoys and just pick off the easier solo targets? ;)

And finally, if I get this right, do you have to surface to record kills, or are unseen kills still recorded? What if the ship sinks unseen-any credit?

[Umfuld]

You can usually hear when the escort moves right overhead. And your hydro man will often warn you that DCs have been dropped.

At this moment it's not a bad idea to give it some speed.


And turn as well (maybe after a couple seconds to get moving first). Don't do it for very long. Just long enough to get away from the current cans dropping on you.
Then cut back to slow and keep turning for a bit while you still have some speed.


Turning while trying to stay silent and diving at the same time is tough. You are almost standing still if diving and turning at 100RPM (silent running).
So I do most of my turning during those few seconds I floor it after a drop right above me.



And yes, staying on the surface to get those extra kills is risky. I usually start diving just before I fire my first torpedo.

[PavelKirilovich]

I loathe convoy attacks. I very rarely made them work for me, even in the early war years, and instead switched to fighting my way inside harbours, ninja'ing my way inside harbours, or slotting lone or paired up ships.

The few times I made successful runs on convoys, the plan went as followed.


i) Upon determining course and speed, I would move perpendicular to the convoy's flank. I would then run silent and raise the periscope just above the water's surface for no more than ten seconds. I use the stopwatch to time this. The reconnaissance I am conducting at this point is meant to identify where the large ships are in the convoy. I then plot them on the navigation map.


ii) Periscope down, I approach. My aim is to end up 500m at maximum from my target vessels. I am generally just inside the convoy.

iii) Using my weapons officer for that added bit of speed, I generate solutions on all priority (Read: Large amounts of GRT) targets and fire.

iv) With torpedoes in the water, I turn towards the tail of the convoy, simultaneously lowering my periscope and pushing the engines to ahead flank. Making maximum revolutions on electric, I then dive. Once I come near the rear of the convoy, I execute a sharp turn and run silent.

v) This generally puts me in a position to stay very near a merchantman and slowly dive. This keeps the escorts from attacking me, and often, as they have lost me on ASDIC, they will not acquire me on SONAR and begin the "Wabo Dance of Death."

It may have helped that I always crewed a Type VIIB or VIIC, which has a much smaller profile than the IX and a respectable torpedo capacity, unlike the II.

[Canovaro]

PavelKirilovich, when moving slow, do not forget to turn on 'silent running' (Z key). This options shuts talking, pumping and loading of torpedoes.
Further, do not pass 100 rpm. There is a dial in the command room (shift+F2).

What I always do is get in the path of the convoy, 2500 meters from the center. Persicope depth 14 meters. You can use plotting the center forward escort to estimate the center of the convoy's tracks. I should then be between the first en second convoy lane; just inside the convoy on a perpendicular course (I mean exactly 90 degrees). That's where I start waiting and let the forward escorts pass by. I use my 'torpedo bearing table' (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131867) to set up a straight shot at two ships and send them both two torpedoes. Even before I launch I hit the D key to begin a slow silent dive and after launch I set speed to just below 2 knots, making sure the engine rpm stays below 100.
I turn the boat to pass the convoy diagonally (is that a word?). I then maneuvre depending on what the escorts do. Stay out of their path.

I never go below 140-150 meters because there is a point where you cannot stop the boats dive at this slow speed anymore, and you will only descent unless you increase speed, alerting the escorts!

[Brag]

Read the Convoy attack article on my kielman website!!!! :D

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Argh, it's time for a lesson:

So it's 1939, 2nd or 3rd patrol (don't remember), and I'm off the West coast of England/Scotland intercepting a convoy. I don't really have to nail it, and could almost certainly find better pickings in solo ships. Which I am tempted to do. But I tried to go in any how. It's about 6 AM (dark, but not pitch), the water is glass, and the sky is clear. I've read several threads/articles on convoy attack, and the advice is varied. But the most frequent tactic is what I did in my last attack (I mainly wanted to try other types first for my own learning's sake)- go in slow, attack, go really deep.

I pick up the convoy, run in on the surface to 4500M, get spotted by a Black Flower Corvette, lucky gun hit ends me quickly.
Running on the surface in anything but pitch black is asking for trouble. You're a lot more visible, and depending on your speed, you make a pretty bow wave and wake too. If you need to do it, go in decks awash, and no faster than ahead slow.

OK, don't go in on the surface. Make a run in, speed up to ahead 1/3 at periscope depth to line up a shot, get detected, DC'd to death by escorts.
Too fast, too fast. Ahead slow. They'll pick you up on the hydrophones. Remember silent running

OK, don't go above ahead slow. Make a run in, nail 3 or 4 ships (not sure, but get 4 hits on 5 torps), one confirmed kill before I go under (coal ship- 1 2M impact torp). Descend slowly to 100M. At 60 M, rear escort starts to ping. I turn towards him to get bow-on so as to reduce sound reflection signal. As soon as I start turning, his pinging picks up. At 90 M, get reports that we're being pinged, 100M get nailed by depth charges and sink into the depths- implosion.
You were too slow getting down.

So, what did I do wrong? Should I have immediately gone to flank and tried to get deep faster? I did linger to fire all my torps- do you really have to be on your way down before the first impact? Should I avoid turning at all when trying to be silent? Is there anything you can do when being pinged deep other than go deeper and pray? Forget convoys and just pick off the easier solo targets? ;)
Okay, my tips for convoys...

1) You should never actively attack a convoy. It's the wrong attitude, and it'll get you killed. What you should be doing is setting a trap for it. Plot the course, calculate an intercept, and be ahead. Get in silent running. Stay submerged. Use the hydro guy to keep an eye on the convoy. Pop the peri up every now and then to pick your target. You should have a clear idea of the layout of the convoy.Get in nice and close once the lead escort has passed, ideally less than a km from the predicted path of your chosen vessels. Ensure you know how deep the water is.

2) Fire your torps. If you're close to other vessels, pop the peri up, fire, drop it down. If you have breathing space, you can leave the peri up to trace your target. Remember, they don't know you're here. If they get spooked, they'll start to zig zag, and chances are your running fish will miss.

3) Once the torps hit, well, the cat is out of the bag. They know you're around, and they have a good idea where the torps have come from. Crash diving will put you at ahead flank. After you hit 50 meters or so, drop your speed back to ahead slow, pick your depth, and change heading. I usually run ahead flank into and under the convoy's line, then turn to head out the back of the convoy at ahead slow, silent running. The remaining ships will make it harder for the dd's to make dc runs. Instead of facing your bow at the dd's hunting you, put them behind you. Your sonar man may lose them occasionally, but you're trying to put as much distance between you and the dd's as possible. You'll know when you'e bing pinged, and you'll hear the propellors if they come on a dc run. Try to keep your arse to the enemy.

And finally, if I get this right, do you have to surface to record kills, or are unseen kills still recorded? What if the ship sinks unseen-any credit?
If you're close, it'll count. If the ship sails 40 kms away and then sinks, you'll get squat.

[Brag]

Excellent advice given above!

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Excellent advice given above!

Coming from you is praise indeed :oops:

One other piece of advice... Lock Bernard in the Brig.

[The Bad Wolf]

This is the submerged tactics I use, not necessarily correct, but based on hard gameplay experience.

1/ Warships don't attack until they detect or suspect you. They will use passive detectors only to listen while your undetected.

Tactics while undetected
Go into silent running. The further away warships are the faster you can go, (Needs experience). When close drop revs to 100 or 1 knot. (I have made a mod that does this at press of a button).

2/ Pinging, active detector. If you hear this then they have heard you.
There's 2 states. Pinging searching and detected, (Get to know the difference).

3/ If they are pinging searching. Then move away from that ship, distance and profile are important. Keep same tactics as undetected to avoid passive sensors. (I've had ships pass overhead without dropping depthcharges. This part is nerve racking and exciting).

4/ Pinging detected
If this happens then your cover is blown. Go into flank speed with partial turn away from that ship, (not full turn as this reduces your speed). You must continue this until you lose the detected pinging sound, most important as he will direct ships onto you. If ships come overhead make drastic course alteration and use tactics to avoid depthcharges, keep speed high to avoid them.

5/ Pinging searching
When you get this drop speed right down and go to silent running. You are back to state 3. Warships will spread out hunting for you. You'll get searching pings from all directions but keep cool and silent. Use sonar to tell nearest contact and then reduce profile.

P.S.
I have used these tactics successfully in the English Channel 30 metres max when surrounded by many warships making my sonar useless (too many contacts).

[Keelbuster]

Some good tips here boys. One thing I might add that makes a big difference in the late war: don't attack a convoy in glass-still water. Rough seas provide great sound cover, and sonar cover. In the late war, enemy sensors are so good that attacking in perfectly still water means you will probably be detected, and you will not be able to lose your attacker. Rough seas can really make your escape easier (or possible).

[Elmer Kosterman]

Keeping your sonar cross-section small by facing or turning away from pursuers is not a bad idea, especially at long range. But when your enemy starts a depth charge run (screw-count hits the roof, depth-charges hit the water), speed up, change depth, and turn so that your boat appraoches the perpendicular to your persuer. This makes it hard to drop depth-charges along the length of your boat. Slow back down before all the charges go off.

[The Bad Wolf]

First of all you have to learn the difference between a DC run and a passover run. Nothing worse than giving away your position if it is the latter.

If active sonar (ping) hasn't detected you they will attack the last position they have heard you with passive or active. If far enough away from that blast area then keep quite and cool let them pass overhead, dont give away your position with high screw revs or sharp turns causin cavitation, they will pass overhead on their way to the drop zone.

If they are pinging you detected then you are exposed and you should make every effort to avoid the active sensor making a sound is not as important as avoiding the active detection.

[MarkShot]

What signals the difference between pinging searching and pinging detected?

Thanks.

[The Bad Wolf]

MarkShot What signals the difference between pinging searching and pinging detected?

Thanks.
A difficult question to answer in a precise manner, thats why experiencing it yourself is important as you will develop a feeling, but I will try to re-live my moments and answer your question as I experience it.

Searching ping
Is a constant melodinous ping, seems external or distant. Changes in pitch, loudness or rate is slow.

Contact Ping
Goes from above to all or some of the following.
A single much louder ping. Perhaps due to hitting hull.
A rapid change in pitch, loudness and rate. Perhaps due to warships rapid increase in speed and homing in on detection.
Can be heard on the hull, I'm sure I've even heard the echo.

I haven't played for a while due to modding, so I have had to explain from memory. But I can honestly say that I know when I've been detected.

[Brag]

MarkShot What signals the difference between pinging searching and pinging detected?

Thanks.
A difficult question to answer in a precise manner, thats why experiencing it yourself is important as you will develop a feeling, but I will try to re-live my moments and answer your question as I experience it.

Searching ping
Is a constant melodinous ping, seems external or distant. Changes in pitch, loudness or rate is slow.

Contact Ping
Goes from above to all or some of the following.
A single much louder ping. Perhaps due to hitting hull.
A rapid change in pitch, loudness and rate. Perhaps due to warships rapid increase in speed and homing in on detection.
Can be heard on the hull, I'm sure I've even heard the echo.

I haven't played for a while due to modding, so I have had to explain from memory. But I can honestly say that I know when I've been detected.

The soundman will also tell you when the enemy has located you.

[MarkShot]

You mean we the "we are being pinged" message? Thanks.

[The Bad Wolf]

I have not trusted that message.

Does it mean they are "pinging us" or as changed in a mod "They are pinging for us" i.e. using active sensor to try and detect us.

[predavolk]

Thanks for the advice! So I tried it again.

Got in again with plenty of time, snuck in behind the lead escort, and let loose my torps. Frankly, I don't know how to switch between targets fast enough to be on my way down before all my torps are gone. Attacking 4 targets (one stern) takes time! But I started down just as my first torp blew, flank speed, turning into the direction of the convoy. At 60M, ahead slow, the momentum takes me to 90M. Several hits and sinkings! Then some random/blind depth charges (no pinging). I'm guessing they guessed at my last location, although I was right in the thick of the convoy- that's pretty ballsy hunting! They sound loud, but no damage shows up on F7. I heard some valves popping at 106M, so I try to take her up to 95M. At 100M I lose the ship to pressure!? :-?

Maybe the ship was damaged in her previous surface engagement (I got in a running surface battle with a patrol ship and larger ship going through Dover at night). Maybe a single depth charge hit me before I could hear it. I don't know. I do know that I'm going to give this convoy a rest. In real life, or a serious campaign, I would have any how. I thought I'd try it this time around so that I could get practice, and in a role-playing way, keep some heat on the convoy system vs. single targets. I may try it again in the future with a deeper diving boat, an intact boat, and/or more experience vs. some friendly targets (i.e., training missions).

Clearly, some bad mojo is working against me, so I'm going to take my 30 tons, avoid the convoy, and see if I can run up another 10 before heading to port!

[predavolk]

:lol: OK, this game has it in for me. So I ignore the convoy, turn north near the Shetland pass, and gun down a small coastal freighter. Shortly thereafter, a destroyer appears, I turn away and run on the surface. Flank. I'm not losing it! OK, I dive and prepare to turn away from it, when I see a bigger ship behind it. Hmmm. Turns out it's the HMS Hood! First a nice juicy convoy, now this? :roll: Come on, give me some time to learn!!! So I line it up, take a shot at 2500 M, and start diving immediately. I hit it 2x, don't sink it right away, but I'm well on my way down so I don't know how bad it's hit. It keeps on sailing, so it can't be too damaged. The destroyer escort charges in at me, and after 30 minutes of first dodging, then creeping, I get blown. Sigh. This game has it in for me- tempting me with great riches, then wreaking havoc with its destroyers- my kingdom for a good clean, air-to-air dogfight rather than this hide and run (crawl) stuff!

Honestly, from all I've read, I have to suggest that in GWX 2, 1939, the destroyers are a touch too effective. I was already well on my way out, at night, a few thousand metres out, 40M+ deep, and moving 1 knot silently before the torps hit. I should've been a hole in the ocean. I'm going to try a long-range surface attack next, then maybe I'll try and mod this thing so I can fire Harpoons or something! :p

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Honestly, from all I've read, I have to suggest that in GWX 2, 1939, the destroyers are a touch too effective. I was already well on my way out, at night, a few thousand metres out, 40M+ deep, and moving 1 knot silently before the torps hit. I should've been a hole in the ocean. I'm going to try a long-range surface attack next, then maybe I'll try and mod this thing so I can fire Harpoons or something! :p

Were you using time compression?

[P_Funk]

Does anyone actually have regular success with surface attacks in the early war? I always struggle with them but after reading so much about the success of the early war commanders with surface attacks then I feel like I'm not playing historically.

[harzfeld]

I have some success, but not regularly since there factors are involved, like weather and has to be night time with clouds, maybe a little fog, no moon reflecting lights on my boat. Set T1 torpedoes to medium while within 6000m, after firing torpedoes then speed up a little away from convoy before they impact, if going flank, they may see you. What's great about surface attack is you can be further away from escorts while you have better speed rather than have to be closer to targets using periscope and trying avoid escorts very slowly submerged before they ping you. But its no big deal for early years since their depth charges can't hurt you while your below 150m. After 1942, their depth charges go deeper. Also your visbility for locating targets while on surface is greater than being submerged using periscope, that helps alot.

[The Bad Wolf]

Don't give up predavolk,

GWX has made the game realistic to life - how long would you last if it was for real?
So play the game as if it was for survival.

If you are a beginner, build up your experience, attack only when there's only 1 destroyer, deep water and rough seas. As your experience grows you can attack more difficult targets. Be patient, learn and you will reap the rewards.

If you are a beginner, and lasted 30 minutes dodging a big destroyer force, then you've done well! Even when skilled it is difficult. When you manage to escape, the destroyers spread out searching and with their surface speed, they can cover a big area.
I found that if I creep away at 1 knot all the time, eventually their active sensors will pick me up. So I have had to learn what maximum speed I can do to avoid detection, to get away as fast and far as I can. This means constantly adjusting speed as they circle closer and then speed up as they go away. Thats why I made myself the mod to do 1 knot at the touch of a button, instead of fiddling with the speed dials.

Good luck

I hope this helps.

[predavolk]

Thanks for the continued advice.

1- I was using time compression at times. Does that hinder your evasion/help the destroyers?

2- OK, here's a recap of my 3rd mission. I went out, and against orders, I sailed the Dover straight. Past the midway point, I very foolishly trusted my sono-tech and surfaced without checking first. BOOM! A patrol craft and a bigger ship are sitting close by and open up. A running gun battle (the patrol craft actually circles in front and around me!) ends with me plugging the patrol craft with my 20mm, backing it off, and outrunning/hiding from the further, bigger escort. Less than 12 hours later, I give the French reason to wish they were still neutral by sinking a large cargo ship. Two hours later, another joins its brother on the bottom! I then sail around the west coast of England, potting another 6 ships with torps and guns. Usually one torp, guns to finish them. Then I find the convoy, which (after several failed attempts and saves), I leave alone. Then I find the HMS Hood. It was too good to pass up, so I attack on the surface. My previous experience suggests that my damaged boat isn't good at depth, so I decide discretion is the better part of valor. New or not, I'd take them on if I had a complete boat (when I load the game, all my dials shatter from previous damage!). So I sneak around at 6000M to get my data, sneak into 5000M (20:00 HRS) and let loose a salvo of 4 of my last 5 torps (only rear tube remaining). I then turn and run at ahead 2/3. I almost give up on the long range shots (set to slow to match one electric torp) when I get a hit! 12M, slow, magnetic (to avoid the armor belt). Immediately, all hell breaks loose with the destroyers who fire star flares, hit their lights, and start madly dashing about. I circle out, and up, ahead flank, to try and catch the wounded (?) Hood. Sadly, my torp didn't slow it down enough for me to catch it, and she was all alone (strange, as it started the encounter doing 19 knots- fast when she needs to be I guess!). Oh well. Already at 38K tons, I find a coastal merchie on the way out the Hebredies. But wait, another merchants. And it's a granville! It gets a torp, and 10 of the last 40 shells. It goes down, and I've broken 40K tons! :rock: But wait, I still have ammo, so I hunt down the coastal merchie and sink it! Booyah! But wait, I still have 23 ammo and plenty of flak ammo. So I find a medium merchant, tail it close to Scotland, but it is escorted by a single patrol ship (first time I've seen that!). No joy, I turn back out into the bay by the Heb. Another coastal merchant wanders in to play, and it gets blasted with 23 rounds before sinking. Number 11, and number 47K! On the way out, I pass 3 other coastal merchants, :roll: , and a trawler. I try to take out the trawler with my flak gun, but only start a small fire. Oh well. I'll add it to the Hood as the ones that got away. All and all, a decent patrol. And the night attack went quite well. If all my torps had been impact, I bet I would've scored another hit on the Hood, but I was very worried about the armor belting (is it modelled? how deep does it go?). From an immersive point of view, I'm happy to at least wound a British capital ship. That will tie up some escort and repair resources!

So thanks again for the advice. My next patrol is in god-****ing-nowhere CG something. I'm guessing I'm going to need convoy skills if I want to make something of that mission. Is it true you can go below 150M with impunity in 1940? That might be the easy ticket here. Will destroyers continue to harass you at that depth, and for how long? Thanks!

BTW, I play 100% realism and manual targeting (90% of my shots).

[harzfeld]

I use TC all times, even attacking convoy, but not too high, only max up to 64 tc. You will learn and get better with experiences. When they detected me, I went oh well, crashed dive, evaded escorts then tried again and did better on next times.

You can go below 150m in VIIB or better with no problem, but I think it risky if you using IIA-D, but they are more stealth tho. In 1940, destroyer could still detect you at 150m in calm sea, so go deeper and silent running at 2 knot straight line, no need to zig-zag trying to avoid DCs, they will explode above you. It should be safe to go 175m in VIIB, even been at 200m sometimes. In early war years, it pretty short for DDs to lose you, probably 5-20 minutes, but it gets harder later.

[The Bad Wolf]

Hi predavolk
It looks like your getting into it and developing your own tactics, as in reality each played to their own strength and therefore would tackle things differently.

Have a look at this post, I think it will help you.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377&highlight=DEMYSTIFIED

[Sailor Steve]

Critique my tactics
ur tatix suks




:rotfl:
Sorry; with all the awful cat jokes on the GT boards I bit my tongue for as long as I could, then it all came pouring out.

I think someone said it early on: don't run toward the convoy at all; run away, do an end-around and approach submerged and very slow from the front. Usually you can slip past the escorts that way.

Try playing the 'Happy Times' single mission several times. The proper approach is what it's all about.

[The Bad Wolf]

The british were masters at jokes until the goverment stepped in. Even the germans (no disrespect) in the war couldn't work us out. After all wasn't the great Bob Hope english. :D

[Sailor Steve]

Yep. Leslie Townes Hope; born in Eltham, England, May 29, 1903. Family moved to Cleveland, Ohio, USA, in 1907.

He joked: "I left England at the age of four when I found out I couldn't be king."
http://www.bobhope.com/bob.htm

Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel were also Brits (and also roommates in college, if I remember rightly); as were Cary Grant and Elizabeth Taylor.

[The Bad Wolf]

Thanks steve

I never knew that Cary Grant and Elizabeth Taylor were roommates! (just joking)

[predavolk]

To keep this going, I thought I'd add my recent encounter (March 1940) with a convoy leaving Gibraltar. The first time through it, I set myself up well ahead of the convoy, silent running (1kt), periscope depth. Calm waters, I get pinged by the lead destroyer and the hunt begins! Nutted, I dive down deep trying to lose him. Going below 100M and he still has me. This isn't going to work if I ever want to attack that convoy, so up ahead flank!

I come up to periscope depth and start playing "Dodge the destroyer", and soon after, "Fool the frigate". As the convoy steams towards me, I pick up a large warship in the middle. Oddly enough, it doesn't show up as anything in my scope or on my map. It's a ghost ship! :o :roll: Using the periscope above and under the water (clear water, but it is the Med), I'm able to dodge the depth charges. I manage to work my way into the convoy and try to ID the warship. It looks like a battleship. The Prince something or other! Sweet! Only, it's still not showing up as a target. I can see it, but the computer says nothing is there (map or scope). :x

Screw it, I get close (guess 500M or so), line up my boat, and send 3 torps at it through blind guestimated aiming. One hits! Boom! I sail under it, fire my rear torp, and it misses. So I dive deep (170m), go slow, and eventually the escorts leave me alone. I go back 2 hrs later and the ship is still there. Floating dead still. It's alive, as they shoot the stuffing out of my observation scope, but it's dead in the water, heeled to starboard. It's not sinking. Then the two escorts return and start attacking me again! So I just sit right beside the big ship and wait, wait, wait. I should've grabbed some easy screenshots. Long story short, the game freezes. :damn:

So, I decide to replay the game. I do three times, testing the response of the destroyers. I found that:

1- Going to 172 M and waiting for the lead escort to pass didn't help. They still detected me as I came up, slow, to attack the convoy. This seems a little too uber to me, even in clear waters. I was in the middle of the convoy, but the lead escort immediately heard me and turned to make a run. I tried some evasionary tactics, like hiding under merchants, without much success. Still not being able to ID or even plot, the big ship, I didn't fire at it. Instead, I decided to quit and try a different approach for learning's sake. Yes, I know that's not uber-realistic, but I want to learn here. This mission has been interrupted for a message from your public u-baot training service.:lol:

2- Sitting dead still at 60 M didn't work. Pinged and attacked. A bad (late) dodge gets me damaged by the destroyer, and for the hell of it, I decide to see what happens when you surface against a battleship. :p

3- Third time, I decide enough testing, back to action. I go deep, silent, 2kts, then make a conscious flank run up from the depths once the convoy is reasonably close. As in all three repetitions, the mystery big ship remains a mystery. I'm about 2000M out, and dodge four to five depth charge runs on my way in to the convoy. Once there, three forward torps, one hit! This time, I take more time aiming with my rear torp and sink it! (all torps 1M, impact, so I could watch them) Interestingly, I find out just before firing my rear torp that it's a light cruiser. What can I say, it looked like a freakin' battleship to me! :oops: Given that I only had those 4 torps in my VII, that was the end of it for me. I dove deep, 172M, and headed for the Atlantic. After a couple of hours, the escorts leave me alone. So I'm heading back to base, with a 10,000 ton warship added to my 16 merchants for a total of 65,000 tons! Not bad for a newbie's 3rd patrol! I realize again that it wasn't purely realistic (I should've attacked merchants too instead of the warship), but it was a great learning opportunity.

Granted, I cheated a little by experimenting with approaches, but my original approach would have at least resulted in me wounding the cruiser. So I don't feel all that bad.

Big lessons learned:

1- Diving deep, into the red, is a must. My earlier failed attempts must have been due to a damaged boat. Does anyone know where you can find the hull integrity %?
2- Destroyers and frigates are relatively easy to dodge at periscope depth. Stay on flank, immediately change depth and turn 90 degree to their path when they are within 100M.
3- You can still hit things firing blind. Big targets aren't that tough (especially with fast torps)
4- Cruisers can be disabled with one torp, sunk with two.
5- Clear, calm water offers no shelter against escorts above 150M, or even down to 172 M once detected. No matter what your speed unless you are completely stopped. 1kt is enough to give you away. This seems rather uber, but oh well.
6- You're pretty darn safe from depth charges below 150M at this stage in the war, so the combination of this, with #2, makes convoys much more manageable at this stage.
7- I don't know if this was just the two ships I was against, but the destroyer like to line up and attack along my axis from my 180. The frigate was more content to make more perpendicular attacks.

Now I'm heading back to port with a few rounds left in my 8.8cm hoping to maybe, just maybe, break 70K tons! I probably could have done that already if I targeted big merchants instead of the cruiser, but hey, it felt good to strike back. My next goal, and I'll do this in single missions or training (simulating blue-on-blue practice), will be to learn how to shoot attacking destoyers. If I can do that, convoys really aren't going to be so tough for the next year or so. :D

[Brag]

Good report,
Though remember: Overconfidence kills :yep: