Sinking "Neutral" Ships, GWX 2.0

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

So I'm leading my merry band out on our first patrol. Travelling through AN32 we pick up a hydrophone merchant contact. So far they've been our own ships, or neutral vessels lit up like a christmas tree. The problem is that on closer inspection we discover that the ship is Danish. The date is currently September 7, 1939. According to my flag recognition chart, Germany shouldn't be at war with Denmark until 1940.

The interesting thing is that the ship was not behaving like the neutral vessel it should be. There are no running lights on the ship, and no spotlights illuminating the flag. :hmm:

Being the suspicious fellow that I am, and possibly a bit greedy for renown and promotions, I immediately assume it's a treacherous Danish plot, an act of war no less, and stick two fish into her:arrgh!:. I figured that if she didn't want to be torped, she should have been a bit more obvious about her neutrality.

Will I be punished when I get back to port? :huh:

Does GWX 2.0 recognise the change of a country's status from neutral to participant, and change the running lights/spotlights on their vessels, or will I be running across blacked out ships belonging to countries that I am not yet at war with?

[3Jane]

You can check the dates of thier neutrality on the 'flags' sheet in the UZO.

[Hanomag]

1st ..Welcome Aboard Kaluen!!! :arrgh!:

Sinking neutral ships (http://www.mysh3.info/shiii/index.php?title=Sinking_neutral_ships). Neutral ships will cost you the same renown amount that you would earn for sinking the equivalent enemy ship. Armed neutral ships will also begin firing on you. As with sinking friendly ships, sinking neutrals can lead to the end of your career in the Kriegsmarine.

right from the community manual.... watch your eels Herr Kaluen :yep:

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

1st ..Welcome Aboard Kaluen!!! :arrgh!:

Sinking neutral ships (http://www.mysh3.info/shiii/index.php?title=Sinking_neutral_ships). Neutral ships will cost you the same renown amount that you would earn for sinking the equivalent enemy ship. Armed neutral ships will also begin firing on you. As with sinking friendly ships, sinking neutrals can lead to the end of your career in the Kriegsmarine.

right from the community manual.... watch your eels Herr Kaluen :yep:
Hate to burst your bubble, but the community manual seems to be no longer around. I've been looking for a few weeks.

The thing it... it wasn't acting neutral... isn't acting suspicious an act of war? Doesn't it deserve a one way trip south?

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

You can check the dates of thier neutrality on the 'flags' sheet in the UZO.
I did... Denmark joins the allies in 1940... in 1939 it was neutral... so why wasn't it lit up like it was neutral?

[Sailor Steve]

Because not every ship acts the same way all the time. You, as captain, actually need to look at the flag and check the status.

And exactly what 'bubble' was Hanomag floating in that needed bursting? He was only trying to help.

[Kptlt. Siegmann]

I had that problem early on in my previous career when attacking a convoy. I'd look at the flags and see British flags on most of them, so alright, they're all British!:damn:

Of course one of the ships I sink happens to be neutral...gotta be looking for solid identification before attack. I learned that the hard way.

[Hanomag]

Thanks Steve, I did feel kinda torpedoed by that comment. :hmm:

Talk about sinking neutrals..sheesh! :nope:

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Thanks Steve, I did feel kinda torpedoed by that comment. :hmm:

Talk about sinking neutrals..sheesh! :nope:
Apologies. I've been frustrated looking for the community manual for some time. Sometimes I think that people don't seem to be aware that it's down. I didn't mean to come across as brusque.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Well, you were right. I got curious, so I saved and ended the patrol then and there. I find I'm now negative 175 renown.

I am most displeased by this, and will be writing a letter of complaint to Uncle Karl. If some stranger is skulking through my back yard, I believe I have the perfect right to knock him.

I still think the ship was asking for it...

...and now I'm hungry after all this talk of Danishes.

[Brag]

J.S. Balz writes:
Nevermind the negative. BDU are a bunch of jerks. Think Hoochie-woochie. Listen to the soft murmur of ships approavhing on the hydrophone. Their screws turning like a gramophone sending a song of sirens calling for the destruction of the enemy. I , Kptlt. Johan Sebastian Balz, the greatest Kaleun ever to sail the oceans urge you to follow my shining example of super efficiency and sink the British vermin polluting the seas of the world. :smug:

[Sailor Steve]

I posted my solution to the neutral problem earlier today on this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132499

Since they were legitimate targets in convoys they shouldn't get negative renown there, and the '0' bonus keeps them from being worthwhile otherwise. Given what we have I think it's a fair solution.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

I posted my solution to the neutral problem earlier today on this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132499

Since they were legitimate targets in convoys they shouldn't get negative renown there, and the '0' bonus keeps them from being worthwhile otherwise. Given what we have I think it's a fair solution.

Fantastic. Now I'll use that big, brightly lit red cross on those white ships as a bullseye! Tonnage, here we come.

You're right. It's a fair solution. A true neutral should be lit up for the world to avoid. Only the guilty creep about in the darkness acting suspicious.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Now THIS is what I'm talking about. It's September '39, and I'm not at war with America. It's a tempting target, but it's obviously neutral with lights ablaze.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/The_Terrabyte_Pirate/tempting.jpg

It's not skulking around asking to be torped. That Danish ship had it coming. :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

You're right. It's a fair solution. A true neutral should be lit up for the world to avoid. Only the guilty creep about in the darkness acting suspicious.
So, what should I do with this one?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/T-Esso2.jpg

[P_Funk]

Pull along side and ask the captain how he feels about Germany?:D

[trongey]

No flags?
He's obviously a smuggler. Sink him for the good of humanity.:arrgh!:

Tony

[Jimbuna]

Does GWX 2.0 recognise the change of a country's status from neutral to participant, and change the running lights/spotlights on their vessels, or will I be running across blacked out ships belonging to countries that I am not yet at war with?

Yes...ships are scripted to join and leave the SH3 world at what we consider historically accurate times.

Be advised.....at the beginning of the war, those that are lit are neutral.

However, there are those sailing around the oceans that whilst being neutral, are not lit. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif


@Steve

Don't be bashful

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!....SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/bubblegum2.gif

[Danelov]

In reality SH-3 is very strict in this point, many neutrals were attacked by U-Boots and some of this nations pay a very high price. Sweden considered as neutral, loss alone 88 merchants by U-Boots; also true is many Swedish ships were sailing with British convoys, but other not.The two first victims of Luth with U-9 were two Swedish ships.Also, the position of the Swedish neutrality was quite complexe as see from the Axe side(remember the "Gotland" sight reports of "Bismarck").In some situations the sink of neutral ships by U-Boots had taked disastrous consequences for Germany: incautation of all interned German merchants in the ports of the neutral victim country, incautation of all German capitals,interes in the country and sometimes, a undesired declaration of war, like Brazil in August 1942, a wonderfull oportunity for the Allied to deploy in this hugue land, several bases and improved a lot the control and coverture ASW in the South Atlantic.

[Kipparikalle]

If you see a neutral, just say nicely hi to them, ask how's it going and nice things like that.

But oh boy you're so screw'd if you sink ship sailing under Finnish Flag.

[Sailor Steve]

No flags?
He's obviously a smuggler. Sink him for the good of humanity.:arrgh!:

Tony
:rotfl: I'll have to remember that!:rock:

[Gezoes]

I'm sorry if I haven't read carefully, but how about neutrals in convoy? I sank a Whale Factory earlier, I think it was Norwegian? I was nov 1940, and not running lights.

I was an accident by the way, I was aiming for a British Empire freighter.

Oh well, at least Greenpeace will be happy, oh wait ;-)

[Sailor Steve]

The game's default limitations mean that you will lose renown for sinking a neutral no matter where you find him. This is why I changed my neutral renown to zero. I don't get credit, but I don't get slammed either.

And it's been awhile so some people don't remember, or never knew in the first place: stock SH3 has no lighted ships; it is a beautiful mod that does that, so don't expect all neutrals to be lighted. They weren't in real life either.

[Gezoes]

Thanks Steve :up:

I think I will set the renown to zero as well, that's a good tip! I leave solo ships alone, but that way I can 'safely' attack neutrals in enemy convoy's :arrgh!:

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Besides, I'm sure that I received a radio message advising me that I could sink neutrals if they were travelling in a convoy with the enemy, or they were blacked out and acting suspicious... This may not be the case in stock, but this thread is about neutrals in gwx 2.0

[Uncle Goose]

In wartime the rules are clear, when you are neutral you do not sail with a convoy of a nation that is in war (sailing in convoy with other neutrals only is OK) and you do not run without lights, if you ignore this you are considered as a hostile. Unfortunatly SHIII does not follow these rules and I too have sunk neutrals sailing in enemy convoys only to see it punished afterwards. IRL captains were rarely punished for sinking a neutral if it was confirmed that the ship sailed without lights/flag, sailed in an enemy convoy or was protected by enemy warships.

[Sailor Steve]

Besides, I'm sure that I received a radio message advising me that I could sink neutrals if they were travelling in a convoy with the enemy, or they were blacked out and acting suspicious... This may not be the case in stock, but this thread is about neutrals in gwx 2.0
I think the message about neutrals is in the Radiolog mod, which is included in GWX2. It's a real message that is there for immersion only. Neutral ships are the way they are, and can be one way or the other, but not both.

[bookworm_020]

Fantastic. Now I'll use that big, brightly lit red cross on those white ships as a bullseye! Tonnage, here we come.

Hospital ships still have all their negitive renown still there, so unless you wanted to be hung as a war criminal in 1945 (that if your not sent to the Russian Front as private!) Steer claer of the hospital ships!:up: