Flaps down, hairs up - you are number doom for landing

[Skybird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z42fchrzhHY

A Lufthansa A320 almost crashed at Hamburg, due to the severe thunderstorm we just have had over here.

First accuses aiming at the pilot to have made a wrong decision to choose runway 23 for landing were relativised soon by comments that the 23 was the one with fully active ILS procedure.

After circling half an hour, the pilot then approached runway 33, with a finally safe landing and better wind conditions.

Just a bad day at the office...

[AVGWarhawk]

Tell me that pilot was not sweating bullets!!!!:o

[August]

Tell me that pilot was not sweating bullets!!!!:o

Bet the passengers weren't too nonchalant about it either.... :dead:

Pilot did a good job recovering though...

[mrbeast]

Saw that on the news looked pretty hairy to me!

[bookworm_020]

He won't be getting the best landing award, but at least he managed to stop it from crashing!:yep: I wonder what the pasangers thoughts were like when they approached the runway for the second time!:hmm:

[sonar732]

There were at least 3 times that the plane shouldn't have recovered.

All said...this pilot either has nerves of steal...or just plain luck!

I wonder how many years of flying they have under their belt...surely it will be in the news soon with that question. I'm also surprised that we aren't seeing any interviews being conducted online as once the newsmedia gets a hold of it, Lufthansa's phone is probably ringing off the hook for request of that sort.

[Sea Demon]

With a crossswind component like that, you're asking for trouble even attempting a landing. Should have executed a missed approach way before committing to land, and perhaps a divert if wind conditions exceeds that aircrafts performance. I'd love to see the performance charts of that aircraft and compare that to the actual conditions of that day.

[Blacklight]

Yeah. Kudos to that pilot. I would have ditched the thing. He did a very good job of reccovering. At least no one was hurt. That could have been a LOT worse.

[Skybird]

It all took place during this "Orkan" (nicknamed "Emma") we had over here, and since my hometown this time was positioned in the moving path of it's main front, three nights ago I learned that it really was a very strong one (not as strong but close to "Kyrill" last year). A lot of damage done, and some people dead. We had minor damage on our roof, too.

As I understand it, the decision against runway 33 was made in the firt because the 23 that they tried first was fully ILS-capable, and as you see it was lousy weather. The pilot took flak for not having choosen a different runway first, but this citicism has fallen silent soon after.

A reporter of a sports magazine was on board. He said that during the first landing attempt and for the time until löanding was accomplished after the second attempt, nobody on board said a single word, nobody. He said it was silent like in a grave.

I've seen the video on the TV news, since I am currently on 56K modem, I did not watch the youtube video I linked. In case it did not mark it: note that the left wingtip at some point touched and slid over the runway.

[sonar732]

I've seen the video on the TV news, since I am currently on 56K modem, I did not watch the youtube video I linked. In case it did not mark it: note that the left wingtip at some point touched and slid over the runway.
It looks like the right wing also grazed the runway around :46.

EDIT: Sky, I feel your telecom pain and enjoy your signature!

[TteFAboB]

I had a similar experience in an ATR-42, which was less dramatic, given the size of the plane and the fact that the pilot aborted before actually touching down. For a moment though, it did appear like the tip of the wing would scratch the runway. But there was no go around, we diverted to an airport with less crosswind and waited one hour untill the wind was gone to go back and land there safely.

[Skybird]

[quote=Skybird]
EDIT: Sky, I feel your telecom pain and enjoy your signature!
Don't get me started. :dead:

It was planned to have a new DSL cable open by now. Instead the planned new company let me sign the same formula threee times, and then - after letting me wait and I wrote them a letter (per email. and telephone they proved to be unavailable) - told me the order dissappeared into nirvana and was nonexistent. Ordered with another company (fifth internet-related company now) and have not heared of them since then.

Yes, I stick to my signature, to every single word in it. All experiences I ever had with private telecom companies were totally and absolutely negative from the second on some questions or problems or troubles appeared: zero points, schoolnote F, repeat class, sit down. Or better: go to hell alltogether. Even my old provider - whose contract ended - now gives me headaches afterwards. :dead: that a company gives me problems even before any contract exists is new here, though. Sets a new negative record.

[sonar732]

I had a similar experience in an ATR-42, which was less dramatic, given the size of the plane and the fact that the pilot aborted before actually touching down. For a moment though, it did appear like the tip of the wing would scratch the runway. But there was no go around, we diverted to an airport with less crosswind and waited one hour untill the wind was gone to go back and land there safely.

I remember in the 90's all of the problems ATR's had with icing.

[Zayphod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z42fchrzhHY


I have to give him credit on a good save there. What is that? A 20 degree crab? At that point, I'd beg for a different runway.....at a less windy airport.

[Sea Demon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z42fchrzhHY

I have to give him credit on a good save there. What is that? A 20 degree crab? At that point, I'd beg for a different runway.....at a less windy airport.

Yeah, but if I owned the airline, I'd have to question his judgement in proceeding to commit to a landing that shouldn't have even been attempted. This is a situation that missed approaches are for.

[August]

I read somewhere that the pilot wasn't flying during that landing attempt. It was the inexperienced co-pilot. Either way it was a fine recovery.

[RickC Sniper]

I agree with Sonar732 that the right wing also touched. You can see debris or dust that was kicked up.

Amazing video and I think very lucky for all who were aboard that plane.

[AdlerGrosmann]

It doesn't matter the best landing, lucky they are still alive and got to land without a scratch. :yep:

[Skybird]

News today said it was the copilot flying, a young woman. On the photos of the two, the pilot did not look much older, too. Training the youngsters all nice and well - but for the decision not to fly himself in that kind of extreme weather the pilot without doubt will take fire.

[Blacklight]

This video reminded me of a flight that I took from Florida back to Connecticut. We left just as this HUGE storm was coming in. We were out over the ocean and the storm was basicly right behind us. Suddenly the planed just dropped and we were weightless for several secconds (and it wasn't just a quick little drop.. this was litterally severaly secconds of floating around). Then the plane reccovered, and then this happened again maybe two or three more times. Everyone in my passenger area thought we were going to die. it was like riding in NASA's Vomit Commet. Thankfully everyone had their seat belts on and the meal and drinks hadn't been served.. otherwise, it would have been VERY messy.

The entire flight until Connecticut was really bumpy and bouncy but thankfully no other big drops occured.

[sonar732]

This video reminded me of a flight that I took from Florida back to Connecticut. We left just as this HUGE storm was coming in. We were out over the ocean and the storm was basicly right behind us. Suddenly the planed just dropped and we were weightless for several secconds (and it wasn't just a quick little drop.. this was litterally severaly secconds of floating around). Then the plane reccovered, and then this happened again maybe two or three more times. Everyone in my passenger area thought we were going to die. it was like riding in NASA's Vomit Commet. Thankfully everyone had their seat belts on and the meal and drinks hadn't been served.. otherwise, it would have been VERY messy.

The entire flight until Connecticut was really bumpy and bouncy but thankfully no other big drops occured.

Sounds like your flight was going on the same path as a cold front draped across the East Coast.

[Skybird]

Story is in: the copilot is 24 years old and tried the first landing, and it was the pilot who then took over to abort the landing.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,druck-539373,00.html


24-Year-Old Co-Pilot Made First Landing Attempt

A young co-pilot steered the Airbus A320 that almost crashed on Saturday while trying to land in heavy wind. The more experienced 39-year-old pilot then took over to abort the landing and take off again.
The Lufthansa Airbus A320 that almost crashed (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,538926,00.html)while trying to land at Hamburg airport in heavy wind was being steered by the 24-year-old female co-pilot, named only as Maxi J., according to a spokesman for the German Federal Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Investigation.

The subsequent maneuver in which the landing was aborted and the plane quickly took off again for a second attempt was conducted by the more experienced 39-year-old pilot, Oliver A.

It's still unclear why the pilot allowed his less experienced colleague to land the plane during the storm. It's not unusual for pilot and co-pilot to swap roles on commercial flights. Usually one of the pilots steers the plane and the other handles communications.

Co-pilots are subject to the same training standards as captains and have to be able to perform the same tasks. A Lufthansa spokesman declined to comment, saying the investigation into the incident was still taking place.

The jet with 131 passengers on board was caught by a gust of wind as it came in to land in pouring rain during a heavy storm on Saturday. It tipped and swerved precariously and one of its wings scraped the runway before it took off again. The incident was captured on video.

Lufthansa said none of the passengers was hurt.

Pilots' association Cockpit said neither the pilots, air traffic control or Hamburg airport could be blamed for the near crash. "From what is currently known I see no one who is to blame," said cockpit spokesman Markus Kirschneck.

[August]

It's still unclear why the pilot allowed his less experienced colleague to land the plane during the storm.

Uhm, to gain experience would be my guess.

[CCIP]

You'd think he'd think twice before letting a n00b fly in those sorts of conditions!

Oh, they'll be in trouble alright...

[August]

You'd think he'd think twice before letting a n00b fly in those sorts of conditions!

Oh, they'll be in trouble alright...

You think so? How is a new pilot going to become experienced if they are only allowed to fly in good conditions?

[Skybird]

You'd think he'd think twice before letting a n00b fly in those sorts of conditions!

Oh, they'll be in trouble alright...
Yes, my guess, too. Although copilots are expected to have the same flight qualification like senior pilots, I think they run a bit shorter on experience, due to shorter service time. we had a very severe "Orkan" at that time over here - the dictionary translates "Orkan" as "hurricane". Landing in that kind of weather I would rate as a condtion red situation - and then I would assume the senior should have the command, not a 24 year old - go calculate how many years of lfight experience she could have had after leaving school and undergo Lufthansa training, even if no waiting time between both took place. The girl probably tried to do her best - but she should not have been allowed in the first, due to the to-be-expected experience difference between her and her chief. For training, that was to dangeorus a situation. The price was almost to be payed, and would have been a major catastrophe.

[TteFAboB]

You'd think he'd think twice before letting a n00b fly in those sorts of conditions!

Oh, they'll be in trouble alright...

You think so? How is a new pilot going to become experienced if they are only allowed to fly in good conditions?

Simulator?

[Platapus]

In flyin there is no such thing as an "almost bad landing". If you can walk away with no injuries or damage, it was a great landing! :up:

Mega Kudos for the pilots

One of my favourite schticks from the movie “Airplane”

We will be coming in low

Coming in low, isn’t that risky?

Of course it is, it is risky anytime you come in low, but it is just one of those things you have to do when you land.

[Tchocky]

In flyin there is no such thing as an "almost bad landing". If you can walk away with no injuries or damage, it was a great landing! :up:

Mega Kudos for the pilots

One of my favourite schticks from the movie “Airplane”

We will be coming in low

Coming in low, isn’t that risky?

Of course it is, it is risky anytime you come in low, but it is just one of those things you have to do when you land.
So foggy, they were flying on instruments..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Airplane%211.jpg