Another noob question

[peabody]

Did the WWII torpedos have a distance to go before they were armed, or were they armed coming out of the tubes. I shot one ship that I thought I was on magnify and wasn't and they didn't explode (I have duds turned off), good thing it probably would have blown me up too.

Peabody

[jgbishop]

Torpedoes have a "reach" of about 300 yards, if I remember correctly. Until they reach that point, they are not armed. When you get a report of "torpedo in the water," it means the torpedo is at the end of the reach and is now armed.

[peabody]

Thank you, appreciate the answer.

Peabody

[NavalSquirrel]

Ok, I know this question is old as heck but does anyone have any new info on it? When the crew says "Torpedo in the water" that it cleared the tube. I launched three at a tin can and I eyeballed all three in and nothing. Next two I sent after the blasted thing did a good job and sunk it.

[kylesplanet]

They won't explode if you are too close. I'm trying to remember but it's 300-400 yards in the stock game.

[Hylander_1314]

400 yrds is the run they need to arm the warhead. After that, they are hot fish in the water.

[TorpX]

IDK about the game, but in RL the arming distances were different for the mk 10 and the mk 14. About 300 or 400 yds IIRC. Torpedos armed in the tubes would have invited catastrophe.

The "reach" was actually the distance the torpedo went before it started turning, and is not the same as the arming distance.

IDK about how the "torpedo in the water" crew message works, but presumably indicates that it is running and can be tracked by sound (as opposed to just sinking). It would be nice if the sound operator track it and report "torpedo running hot, straight and normal", so you would know.

[Dogfish40]

Torpedoes have a "reach" of about 300 yards, if I remember correctly. Until they reach that point, they are not armed. When you get a report of "torpedo in the water," it means the torpedo is at the end of the reach and is now armed.

This is interesting, and the first time I've heard this; When I get a report of "Torp in the water", That is the point where it's armed??:timeout: So it's already 500 yrds out when I get that SO message?!
I thought my fish were firing slow. I can hear the compressed air shoot when I fire (I already have the door open) and it's several seconds before I hear "Torpedo in the water" and this has always bugged me. As was mentioned by TorpX, I would much rather hear "torpedo running hot, straight and normal" as they all seem to do in the game anyway, Duds or not. Since the game never spits out a torpedo that is erratic we could really use a mod that changes the SO's call out. That would be really great!!
Peabody, Welcome aboard!! Good Hunting!
D40:salute:

[fred8615]

Since the game never spits out a torpedo that is erratic we could really use a mod that changes the SO's call out.

Just FYI, yes the game does have erratic torpedoes. If you enabled duds in the options menu, you will get the occasional erratic, especially when you use the Mark 18. I've been hit by a circle runner before, and just yesterday I had one go God knows where.

[Armistead]

The arming distance in previous versions of TMO was 411 meters or 449.475 yards. Not sure if he's changed that since I last
check, but I doubt it.

I haven't looked at his values for failures, but they exist for circle runners, deep runners, duds, angle of impact, water conditions, etc...

I hate when M18's circle run.....I had some mild damage, but just as I sunk a JP carrier in the bungo, a circle runner finished me off....

[Overkill]

The Mk18 circle runners can really ruin your day. Fortunately I've only had 2 of 'em in the last 4 years of playing SH4. Didn't get hit by either but they came really close. :o

[Dogfish40]

Just FYI, yes the game does have erratic torpedoes. If you enabled duds in the options menu, you will get the occasional erratic, especially when you use the Mark 18. I've been hit by a circle runner before, and just yesterday I had one go God knows where.

Whoops, MyBad. I didn't realize they went erratic as well...
D40

[TorpX]

I should have added this before, in case everyone doesn't already know this. The torpedos DO make sound and CAN be heard with your hydrophones (if you have time to listen). So, in theory, you could track them and be warned of erratic/ circle runners.

[torpedobait]

This is interesting, and the first time I've heard this; When I get a report of "Torp in the water", That is the point where it's armed??:timeout: So it's already 500 yrds out when I get that SO message?!
I thought my fish were firing slow. I can hear the compressed air shoot when I fire (I already have the door open) and it's several seconds before I hear "Torpedo in the water" and this has always bugged me. As was mentioned by TorpX, I would much rather hear "torpedo running hot, straight and normal" as they all seem to do in the game anyway, Duds or not. Since the game never spits out a torpedo that is erratic we could really use a mod that changes the SO's call out. That would be really great!!
Peabody, Welcome aboard!! Good Hunting!
D40:salute:
Dogfish, the torp is about 300 yards out when you get the message "Torp in the water", not 500. Also, as someone may have pointed out already, you don't get that message if you have a circle runner. I almost lost my boat last night from the latter, but fortunately I had come to a dead stop before firing to avoid closing the range to tight. The circle runner passed about 25 yards of my bow!

[Platapus]

Perhaps the "torpedo in the water" is meant to be a warning.

If you have not launched a torpedo, but your sound man reports Torpedo in the water, you might have a "situation" :o

Do Japanese Submarines sink American Subs in SH4?

[TorpX]

Also, as someone may have pointed out already, you don't get that message if you have a circle runner.
Are you sure about this?

If this is true, it is very unrealistic. How could anyone know if the torpedo is circling when it has only started its turn?



Do Japanese Submarines sink American Subs in SH4?

I was wondering about this myself.

[Armistead]

Are you sure about this?

If this is true, it is very unrealistic. How could anyone know if the torpedo is circling when it has only started its turn?





I was wondering about this myself.



Well, realistically sonar may have picked up a circle runner, but often they did not. In several books I've read the circle runners were seen, not tracked. In game they can hit you at scope depth, even set shallow. Follow the turn, if it keeps turning back towards you, go deeper.

They will only hit you in game if you're moving forward, stopped they should pass in front. I always like to keep a lil speed, so if I'm concerned I take a look at the attack map. Most of us find out the hard way about circle runners. When I play with cams off I usually get hit once a career. I'll be thinking to myself where that last torp went, bout that time..BAM...

JP and German subs attack with deckguns only in any mod I've seen.

[TorpX]

Well, realistically sonar may have picked up a circle runner, but often they did not. In several books I've read the circle runners were seen, not tracked. In game they can hit you at scope depth, even set shallow. Follow the turn, if it keeps turning back towards you, go deeper.

They will only hit you in game if you're moving forward, stopped they should pass in front. I always like to keep a lil speed, so if I'm concerned I take a look at the attack map. Most of us find out the hard way about circle runners. When I play with cams off I usually get hit once a career. I'll be thinking to myself where that last torp went, bout that time..BAM...


This is not good for me, as I will be at the periscope and moving forward. I can see maybe trying to track them on sound, if the run is long enough, but not at the expense of confirming the hits. I guess being on a submarine in a war zone is a risky business. :DL

[Daniel Prates]

I remember the old "aces of the deep", which had some enterviews with some U-boat top aces, and one of them said in an enterview that the sonar operator would listen carefully to the torpedo going away, and that we could tell if the torp was running straight or if it was not moving away as it should - a sign that it might be circling. So in theory it is possible to know if you have a circler or not.

My impression was that you hear "torpedo in the water" as soon as it is expelled from the tube and is perceived to be running. Is it not so?

[Platapus]

Most of us find out the hard way about circle runners. When I play with cams off I usually get hit once a career. I'll be thinking to myself where that last torp went, bout that time..BAM...



In all the careers I have played in SH4, I have never had a circular running torpedo. Now I wonder if I ever had one but just did not know it. :o

[TorpX]

I have never had a circular running torpedo. Now I wonder if I ever had one but just did not know it. :o

I was more or less thinking this.

Do they travel in a perfect circle, or do they just loop around generally? If they travel in a precise circle and are "preordained" to hit you, that is bad news.

Likewise, it is not helpful that one cannot detail the sound operator to track the torps as they are fired. Diving deep whenever one makes an attack, just to avoid a rare circle-runner, seems too extreme.

[Hylander_1314]

I was more or less thinking this.

Do they travel in a perfect circle, or do they just loop around generally? If they travel in a precise circle and are "preordained" to hit you, that is bad news.

Likewise, it is not helpful that one cannot detail the sound operator to track the torps as they are fired. Diving deep whenever one makes an attack, just to avoid a rare circle-runner, seems too extreme.


Which is why I set my fish for shallow depths, and after firing the tubes I intend to fire, I go down to at leat 150ft. Give a few while I move forward, and that usually saves us the trouble of being sunk by my own torps.

[Dogfish40]

Are you sure about this?

If this is true, it is very unrealistic. How could anyone know if the torpedo is circling when it has only started its turn?





I was wondering about this myself.



I found out after firing one time, Listening through the hydrophones that I was hearing the torpedoes. At the end of their run you will hear an explosion (that is, After a miss). The torpedo sounds like a whiny, higher pitched and unmistakable for anything else. So it's my guess that you should be able to track the fish if it's running in a circle. You might listen for the sound getting weaker at first, changing compass bearing, and then getting ominously louder:stare::haha:!!
I do wish IJN subs (and ships for that matter) could shoot torpedoes, that would add an extra element (and a scary one at that) to the game.
Unfortunately, I've only read about a mod enabling certain DD's and Cruisers to fire torpedos.

[Armistead]

I shot at a ship last night, knowing two escorts were coming at my stern.
Not much later got a hit and sink sunk, so thought I got the merchant in front of me. Later I looked and the escort behind me was dead in the water sinking...I love when circle runners take out chasing escorts.

[NorthBeach]

The first encounter of a circle runner, that I was aware of, came as a complete surprise! I'd fired at 2 merchs, in a convoy, with escorts. After I fired I pulled the plug and spun the hydrophone around to see how the escort, on my side, was going to react. When I heard...

weeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:o

What the...???!!!

When it dawned on me! Had I not pulled the plug...?

[TorpX]

Which is why I set my fish for shallow depths, and after firing the tubes I intend to fire, I go down to at leat 150ft. Give a few while I move forward, and that usually saves us the trouble of being sunk by my own torps.

Then I guess you never make surface attacks?
As I said before, crash dives after every torpedo attack, is going a bit far. I usually want to confirm hits, turn, be ready for follow up shots etc.

Does anybody know of how many U.S. boats were hit by circle-runners? I've read of at least 3.

[WernherVonTrapp]

so if I'm concerned I take a look at the attack map. I've always wondered about the attack map.:hmmm: Does it indicate the torpedo's known track or it's calculated track?

[Armistead]

I've always wondered about the attack map.:hmmm: Does it indicate the torpedo's known track or it's calculated track?

It goe's down the known track you calculated...

Anyway, you see the black line. If you're set up is correct your black hash should be on the ship and follow it, if the hash goe's off, then you could be off. I seldom take time to look at the thing, but a good tool if you have time to set up with it.

[TorpX]

I've always wondered about the attack map.:hmmm: Does it indicate the torpedo's known track or it's calculated track?
I would assume that it is only the calculated track, but like Armistead, I seldom look at the attack map.
If it showed the actual track before the torpedo even ran it, that would be a huge givaway.

[AVGWarhawk]

Does'nt "torpedo in the water' mean the enemy has sent one of their fishes at your vessel/boat? :hmmm:

[Capt. Morgan]

... Do they travel in a perfect circle, or do they just loop around generally? If they travel in a precise circle and are "preordained" to hit you, that is bad news. ...


I was lucky enough to be able to observe a circle-runner (specifically its wake - and also on the attack map) during a daylight surface attack on a wounded freighter.

They begin to circle once they start their turn to the target (and then they just keep on turning - full circle), so they run in a perfect circle about 200 yds ahead of the firing point. You're safe if your stationary. I wasn't, but I managed to save myself by ordering emergency back.

I'm guessing that if you fire with a zero gyro angle your torp. won't go erratic, since it doesn't turn on the way to the target.

Still interested to learn just what exactly "Torpedo in the water" means. Sorry to say I can't remember if I heard it when I observed that circle runner - my mind was otherwise occupied at the time.

[fred8615]

Does'nt "torpedo in the water' mean the enemy has sent one of their fishes at your vessel/boat? :hmmm:
No, because it says it every time you fire one. So it means your torpedoes.

[Hylander_1314]

Then I guess you never make surface attacks?
As I said before, crash dives after every torpedo attack, is going a bit far. I usually want to confirm hits, turn, be ready for follow up shots etc.

Does anybody know of how many U.S. boats were hit by circle-runners? I've read of at least 3.



No not usually. I like to use the stealth of underwater attacks. Makes diving to greater depths easier, and avoids the nasty mishaps of shells damaging the boat from escorts, or armed merchants.

[TorpX]

I'm guessing that if you fire with a zero gyro angle your torp. won't go erratic, since it doesn't turn on the way to the target.


I was wondering about this. But I suspect the torpedo rudder could be jammed upon launching. (A highly qualified torpedo specialist should reduce the chances of this.)

Still interested to learn just what exactly "Torpedo in the water" means. Sorry to say I can't remember if I heard it when I observed that circle runner - my mind was otherwise occupied at the time.
That's understandible. :)

[Stealhead]

Some where in this forum there are some threads about circle runners but I could not find what I was looking for but anyway I am pretty sure that you can get a circle runner at any gyro so setting to zero wont prevent this.

If you really sat down and looked though the right threads the answer about the circulars can be found.But if I recall there is not way to avoid one occurring.You just have to hope that they dont and they can happen with various types of torpedo as well in WWII this was the case anyway the Tang got nailed by her own circular run Mk.18 and I think the Tullibee got hit by her own Mk.14.In the Tangs case they tried to evade it but to no avail.Those are the only 100% confirmed ones where some crewman knew what happened and survived but I bet other subs may have been completely destroyed with all hands and no way to explain the loss(if they even knew that their own torp circled back and hit them) and other times subs avoided circulars just fine so they did occur more than just a few times.

[Capt. Morgan]

Some where in this forum there are some threads about circle runners ... I am pretty sure that you can get a circle runner at any gyro so setting to zero wont prevent this....

So much for that theory then.

I guess all you can do is to try to observe the torpedo's wake through the periscope, react accordingly, and hope.

[Jan Kyster]

Or you can deal with circle runners as this skipper here deals with mines, nets and reefs - they just don't exists! :smug:

[fred8615]

I guess all you can do is to try to observe the torpedo's wake through the periscope, react accordingly, and hope.
Except the Mark 18 is electric, and thus wakeless. And it seems to be most prone to circle running, especially early in its deployment.

The one sure way to detect circle runners is to use the Attack Map, zoomed in a few times. I've seen, and avoided, several that way.

[TorpX]

I guess all you can do is to try to observe the torpedo's wake through the periscope, react accordingly, and hope.

Well, I don't know about you, but I plan on getting a top-notch torpedo specialist and being very nice to him. :DL

[Stealhead]

In game there is not much of a way to spot circle runners unless you are using the sound gear you could follow the fish that you launch and track them.The real sound guys did that all the time and where listing for a circle runner once they where found to occur.I have never tried this in game to be honest but I suppose it could work.

[TorpX]

In game there is not much of a way to spot circle runners unless you are using the sound gear you could follow the fish that you launch and track them.The real sound guys did that all the time and where listing for a circle runner once they where found to occur.I have never tried this in game to be honest but I suppose it could work.

You can hear them in game; they make a buzzing sound. The problem is, in my view, that you are usually too busy. The sound man is an idiot, so you must go to his station your self and listen soon after you launch. Keep in mind, that in many cases you will want to fire multiple torpedos, so you would have to track each of them. This would usually mean not looking through the periscope for impacts. Or making any sort of maneuvers after launching.... **GROAN**

A more practical approach might be to set torpedos shallow and launch from periscope depth. The odds of a circle-runner hitting the shears should be a good deal less, right? Of course, you should not use magnetic influence det. for this.

Is it possible someone could figure out a modding fix, to permit a skillful sound operator to track them?

[WernherVonTrapp]

Maybe we should just advise the Naval Bureau of Ordinance about these torpedo problems.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/tomatoes.gif

[Armistead]

The easy answer, look at the attack map after shooting, it takes a few seconds. What bothers me is I can be at scope depth, set torp depth to 10ft and the things still hit my bow. I could understand maybe the top of the con tower.

I have found moving at 2kts forward it will almost always hit you.

Still, I've never been sunk by one, which is silly, but no one can fix the coded damage model.

[Platapus]

Maybe we should just advise the Naval Bureau of Ordinance about these torpedo problems.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/tomatoes.gif


Oh you are bad!

:D

[andy_311]

I would show you a screenie but for some reason my pics won't show up.
so here's a direct link to the jpeg not quite a circular but a my own Mk27 smacking in to me the settings were st to 45m magnetic.

http://img577.imageshack.us/i/bloodycuties.jpg/

[Stealhead]

Did you by chance have your sub moving? You are supposed to go to all stop before launching a Mk.27 and then dropping deep if you can and staying that way until it hits a target on runs out.

I bet it picked up your props running.Mk.27s are very strange in game I have seen them latch onto target then hit the sound of another.I really on use them on pursuing escorts the louder the noise the better and you cant get much louder than a tin can at 27+knots. But they can and will target less noisy targets if nothing else is around.

[andy_311]

Did you by chance have your sub moving? You are supposed to go to all stop before launching a Mk.27 and then dropping deep if you can and staying that way until it hits a target on runs out.

I bet it picked up your props running.Mk.27s are very strange in game I have seen them latch onto target then hit the sound of another.I really on use them on pursuing escorts the louder the noise the better and you cant get much louder than a tin can at 27+knots. But they can and will target less noisy targets if nothing else is around.

My sub was moving at the time the cutie was set to a depth of 45meters but somhow missed the liner and came back at me.

[Stealhead]

I bet that is what got you then.The real Mk.27 was intended to be used against an attacking escort vessel which would have been running in at high speed and making lots of noise as well as heading directly towards the sub.

The cutie was not really "smart" per say meaning that it did not really lock on to a sound but followed the loudest noise it was able to pick up and had no way of knowing what it was tracking or if it had lost track of one sound(target) and was tracking another sound(target).It was based on an air dropped "mine" that was used against German U-Boats and they got the idea to modify it for use as a submarine launched weapon.But it was never intended to be used on a highly evasive target or against a convoy with multiple targets or a high speed target that was not on a direct course with the launching sub.

The USS Bard did once sink a small lone freighter with just a Mk.27 but they fired it from a pretty good depth and it came up and hit the hull from below direct contact like a finger pointing up at an angle something you cant really do in SH4 you can get a magnetic hit true but with the weak Mk.27 warhead a contact hit is much more effective.I am pretty sure that the in game Mk.27 dose not behave like a real one would have in certain respects.