Cursed boats, naval supperstitions?

[Lt West]

Hello i am Lt. West,
Does anyone on subsim belive in cursed ships for example the number 13 whats so bad about that titanic didnt even have a cabin number 13! And there is always the question about christining.Newly constructed ships there is evidence that bad things happen to boats that were chrissened like K-19 the russian submarine which had a reactor malfunction and most the crew died of radation poisoning.(watch the movie K-19 the widowmaker if you havent already its awesome!!!)The K-19 was christened but the bottle bounced off because a wimpy little girl threw it and she wasn't strong enough.Then there is the Titanic made by White star lines and sank on april 14th 1912 killing over 1000 people on board.The thing is white star never christened there ships. Then there is the titanic's sister ship the Britanic, she was converted into a hospital ship in World War 1 and was sunk by a mine on November 21st 1916 of the greek island of Kea in the Kea channel.
So the question is should we christen our boats if we dont will she be cursed and what if the bottle bounces off?

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Hello i am Lt. West,
Does anyone on subsim belive in cursed ships for example the number 13 whats so bad about that titanic didnt even have a cabin number 13! And there is always the question about christining.Newly constructed ships there is evidence that bad things happen to boats that were chrissened like K-19 the russian submarine which had a reactor malfunction and most the crew died of radation poisoning.(watch the movie K-19 the widowmaker if you havent already its awesome!!!)The K-19 was christened but the bottle bounced off because a wimpy little girl threw it and she wasn't strong enough.Then there is the Titanic made by White star lines and sank on april 14th 1912 killing over 1000 people on board.The thing is white star never christened there ships. Then there is the titanic's sister ship the Britanic, she was converted into a hospital ship in World War 1 and was sunk by a mine on November 21st 1916 of the greek island of Kea in the Kea channel.
So the question is should we christen our boats if we dont will she be cursed and what if the bottle bounces off?

Good topic. I think with K-19, it wasnt so much a jinx, but defective Soviet equipment. Polyenin (sp?) mentioned at the start that incorrect fuses were used in the launch console, and the Soviet regime is notorious for taking more and more money from the Naval budget

[CCIP]

Yea, but it's a kind of perverse (un)luckiness if you will. How many nasty incidents can a boat like that live through and still continue service?

CSS Hunley springs to mind immediately. I forgot the number of times it sank killing its own crew, even before its final deployment :dead:

[Lt West]

Yeah, The K-19's production was rushed wasn't it i mean with all the faulty equipment and some bad crew members it was destined to sink.I Belive right now K-19 is scrapped probablly sitting in some junk yard by Moscow.I saw one of her engine telegraphs on ebay for 500 dollars

[Captain Nemo]

Up until fairly recently the K-19 was rusting away in some Russian sub base in the Arctic. I think it's finally been scrapped now. An interesting story and not a bad film either.

Nemo

[Takao]

I though the bottles were supposed to be scored first, so that they broke easily.
Last I heard the K-19 had been bought by some rich russian businessman so he could turn it into a submariner's bar. Surviving crewmembers were in opposition to this and had been attempting to block the K-19's transformation. Altough I have not heard anymore about this.

Now this is one cursed ship

http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_8807.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Joyita

[Sailor Steve]

I don't believe it for a minute. A ship is only as unlucky as the people on board believe her to be.

Of course, that could become a self-fulfilling prophecy...or curse.

[Oberon]

"A person who believes he is going to die, will often find a way to make it happen."

[Kapitan]

Hello i am Lt. West,
Does anyone on subsim belive in cursed ships for example the number 13 whats so bad about that titanic didnt even have a cabin number 13! And there is always the question about christining.Newly constructed ships there is evidence that bad things happen to boats that were chrissened like K-19 the russian submarine which had a reactor malfunction and most the crew died of radation poisoning.(watch the movie K-19 the widowmaker if you havent already its awesome!!!)The K-19 was christened but the bottle bounced off because a wimpy little girl threw it and she wasn't strong enough.Then there is the Titanic made by White star lines and sank on april 14th 1912 killing over 1000 people on board.The thing is white star never christened there ships. Then there is the titanic's sister ship the Britanic, she was converted into a hospital ship in World War 1 and was sunk by a mine on November 21st 1916 of the greek island of Kea in the Kea channel.
So the question is should we christen our boats if we dont will she be cursed and what if the bottle bounces off?

Just a bit about K-19 the reality was it was a man (high ranking admiral from moscow) who christend K-19 not a girl, also it sufferd many a accident 1961 1972 were the two worst noted.

what about vessels that have been renamed ? that also carries a bad omen.

[Kapitan]

K-19 the film isnt an accurate portrayal of the events, time and time again from both surviving crew and other people have stated no where at any time was their an american ASW destoyer shadowing K-19 during her reactor accident, two foxtrot boats were the only two vessels on scene.

The captain was never dismissed like the film portrayed at the beginning Captain Zatayev himself in an interview told the events as he recalled them, for the people who believe the K-19 was the soviet unions first nuclear submarine your also far wrong that was the honary role of K-3 a november class submarine K-19 was the first nuclear missile carrying submarine that was nuclear propelled.

Theres alot of issues with the film its even led to lawsuites from survivors as they feel they have been portrayed as drunks and complete idiots.

So the K-19 film is a good story that tells half truths but that is all it will ever be.

K-19 was to be restored and made into a museam in st petersburg but the scrappers got thier hands on her she now sits in a pile of bits near bolshya lopatka naval base.

[StdDev]

How about SS-192 USS Squalus.
Sank during sea trials.. killed 26 men..(32 saved)
Salvaged and became the USS Sailfish
USS Sailfish had a fairly good war record (40K tons of Japanese ships) and survived the war!

[CCIP]

How about SS-192 USS Squalus.
Sank during sea trials.. killed 26 men..(32 saved)
Salvaged and became the USS Sailfish
USS Sailfish had a fairly good war record (40K tons of Japanese ships) and survived the war!

Funny how it was absolutely forbidden to call her "Squalus" aboard, so the crew nicknamed her "Squailfish" :lol:

[Lt West]

:dead: :cool: :nope: :down: :rotfl: What about the titanic white star lines never christened there ships both the titanic and the britanic sank what about that?!?!:rock: :hmm:
P.S. i love emoticons!!!!

[Takao]

You gentlemen left out the "kicker" of the USS Squalus/USS Sailfish story. One of her victims was the IJN Chuyo. When she was sunk, the IJN Chuyo was carrying 21 survivors from the sunken submarine USS Sculpin. The USS Sculpin was the submarine that first located the USS Squalus lying on the seabed after her accident. Of the 21 survivors aboard the IJN Chuyo, only 1 would survive the carrier's sinking.

[Etienne]

:dead: :cool: :nope: :down: :rotfl: What about the titanic white star lines never christened there ships both the titanic and the britanic sank what about that?!?!:rock: :hmm:
P.S. i love emoticons!!!!

Most of the White Star Line's ships didn't sink. Yeah, they lost a few. Doesn't prove anything. Superstition's just make-believe.

I'm not even sure most of the ships I was on were christened. I only know for sure about one, and that was a cruise ship, so christening = PR op. Of the others, 4 have had their names changed. There's only one of these ships I've ever called "Unlucky", but that was in jest. They fixed up the engine, and she seems to be having better luck now, from what I've heard.

I'd say most civillian ships will have their names changed during their career, as most shipowners will retain ownership of the name when they sell the vessel. Most people will also rename a ship when they buy it - OMG Shipping wouldn't want to operate the HyperGloboNet Explorer. And HyperGloboNet wouldn't want their name to be associated with the ship if they're not operating it.

It's quite amusing to walk along a wharf and notice how the names welded on a ships hull don't match the ones painted on them. A ship I worked on had markings for three or four company logos on her side plating.

As for Titanic not having a cabin 13, I'd say most hotels don't even have a room 13. Many don't even have a 13th floors! Modern cruise ships don't usually have that cabin number either, simply because their numbering scheme don't produce. (You can usually get the deck and side from the cabin number, and sometimes if it's a crew or guest cabin)

And frankly, I couldn't care less if a ship has been christened or not. As one Captain I've worked with put it, "There's no such thing as bad luck, just bad decisions."

[Lt West]

well, yes most of white star lines ships didnt sink but out of the three biggest ones 2 sank. What are you guyes standing on the bermuda triangle. I think its methane gas and magnetic rocks or aliens if you dont beleif in usos look up the U.S.S. Franklen D rossevelt.

[Lt West]

(I forgot something) you know when the titanic sank smith didnt go on the bridge and go down with the ship like in the movie which was a wonderfull movie but was very inaccurate in several areas. Smith came up to the life boat with the officers on it and said "room for one more." and they turned him away it was dark and they didnt know it was smith. but the wireless officer who knew his voice because he always gave him the messages said "We just turned away smith".
And when the iceberg was spotted mourdock ordered back emergency and full starboard rudder but that was a mistake. because the engines were in reverse they drew water away from the screws and cut her turning speed if he wouyld have ordered ahead full they might have cleared the berg.

P.S. I realize he had to think fast but still....)

[Kapitan]

Not always the case, they would have been better off to hit the berg head on, remember you cant see most of it so even if they did exactly what you said and turned faster they still may have hit the burg but a submerged part of it.

and reversing the propellors doesnt mean your throwing water away it means your changing the direction the water is coming from and going out to.

[Etienne]

(I forgot something) you know when the titanic sank smith didnt go on the bridge and go down with the ship like in the movie which was a wonderfull movie but was very inaccurate in several areas.

There are many theories as to what happened to Smith, and they all conflict. No one knows for sure what he did.

And when the iceberg was spotted mourdock ordered back emergency and full starboard rudder but that was a mistake. because the engines were in reverse they drew water away from the screws and cut her turning speed if he wouyld have ordered ahead full they might have cleared the berg.

No, what happened is that when he ordered back emergency, the engineers stopped the centerline propeller, as it couldn't be reversed. Having a propeller in front of your rudder makes manoeuvring a ship a completly different game. Having a reversed flow of water over the rudder while the ship still has headway is also a major malnus to rudder efficiency, but since Titanic didn't have a reversing center propeller, it probably didn't create a void around the rudder.

If he'd just reduced speed, it could have worked. If he'd stopped center, reversed one side prop and turned with the engines, it could have worked. Might not have, either, they were awfully close by the time they started manoeuvring.

And while I don't know how officers were trained back then, but modern day OOWs would probably do the same thing in that situation. Imminent collision = Crash astern. You don't even think about it. (The idea is to break the ship's momentum as much as possible, as it's assumed that once you get to that point, there just isn't room to get out of the way)

As for the Britannic sinking - There was a WAR, remember? Before you can say there was an higher chance of shipping casualty due to the lack of christening, you'd have to check how many unchristened ship didn't sink versus how many were unlucky. I'm pretty sure the guys in Alaung don't go "See, that boat wasn't christened!" - But the guys who make "Disaster at Sea" or whatever those shows are called sure bring it up whenever they can.

Finally, the Bermuda triangle has a higher rate of maritime occurence (Although a lot of it is just overeporting) simply due to a higher traffic level. A couple of other factors make it worst, like the weather system and the fact that all the islands look the same (Plus, the caribean sea is SHALLOW once you're west of Puerto Rico. Seriously, it amazed me), and everybody's screaming ghost.

[Lt West]

Well etienne i admire your knowledge and logic on this matter you make a good debate and i didnt know the titanics central screw didnt reverse that changes the issue and yo uhave a point with the britanic There was a war indeed I did overlook that a little i suppose. and the titanic wouldnt hit a submereged part of the berg that berg in that region they were all broken off of the artic continent and were big but not that big.:rock:

[Etienne]

Well etienne i admire your knowledge and logic on this matter you make a good debate

Thanks, but I have little merit, I work in the shipping industry. I have to know most of that stuff for work.

and the titanic wouldnt hit a submereged part of the berg that berg in that region they were all broken off of the artic continent and were big but not that big.:rock:

There's a picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Titanic_iceberg.jpg) that is considered likely to be the iceberg Titanic hit - It was in the area at the right time, anyway. It's hard to guess the size of an iceberg from a picture, since we don't have any element to compare... But I'd guess it's average. You can tell it's old, tho, since its surface is relatively smooth.

No matter the size of the berg, 9/10 of it is underwater, simply because of the relative density of ice to salt water. So it could have it the submerged part - it probably did.

Smaller bergs are actually considered more dangerous, as they are harder to spot (And they don't reflect radar waves nearly as well)

[RickC Sniper]

Sailors in general have a history of being a superstitious bunch.

[nikimcbee]

Hello i am Lt. West,
Does anyone on subsim belive in cursed ships for example the number 13 whats so bad about that titanic didnt even have a cabin number 13! And there is always the question about christining.Newly constructed ships there is evidence that bad things happen to boats that were chrissened like K-19 the russian submarine which had a reactor malfunction and most the crew died of radation poisoning.(watch the movie K-19 the widowmaker if you havent already its awesome!!!)The K-19 was christened but the bottle bounced off because a wimpy little girl threw it and she wasn't strong enough.Then there is the Titanic made by White star lines and sank on april 14th 1912 killing over 1000 people on board.The thing is white star never christened there ships. Then there is the titanic's sister ship the Britanic, she was converted into a hospital ship in World War 1 and was sunk by a mine on November 21st 1916 of the greek island of Kea in the Kea channel.
So the question is should we christen our boats if we dont will she be cursed and what if the bottle bounces off?

Good topic. I think with K-19, it wasnt so much a jinx, but defective Soviet equipment. Polyenin (sp?) mentioned at the start that incorrect fuses were used in the launch console, and the Soviet regime is notorious for taking more and more money from the Naval budget

Yeah, I think the K-19 is the gold standard for boat curses:dead:

[Lt West]

well noone really knows about the berg that the titanic hit but i know for a fact taht she didnt hit a submerged part maybe a little bit and what do yo uthink about thid idea what if she hit it head on the bow i would think is sstronger then the sides she might not have sank then

[Kapitan]

how do you know for FACT?

the penetration most likely happend below the waterline which ment she must have somewhere along the line hit the submerged part of the berg, also no one knows 100% because at the time no one survayed the bow from the outside.

Also we will never know its buried in 60 feet of mud there fore anything saying yes or no to hitting a submerged burg is hidden, also if it didnt hit the submerged part of the berg why in gods name did it sink then?

[Lt West]

well kapitan you certanily uuuhhhhh.... have strong feelings on the mattter...

[Jimbuna]

How come nobody has ever come across an iceberg with the number 13 printed on its side http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif

[AdlerGrosmann]

It's much superstition! There are no such things as cursed, ghost or monsters for that matter! ;)

[Jimbuna]

It's much superstition! There are no such things as cursed, ghost or monsters for that matter! ;)

Scottish believe they have one at Loch Ness http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3060/gigglebigtb9.gif

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2531/lochness2lgqw9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Kapitan]

Its not that i have strong feelings for the matter in hand titanic but from what i know you can be 300 feet from the visable part of the iceberg and yet still hit it from its submersible part.

there is nunaimous agreement that if the titanic had hit head on she would have survived whats more people cant throw around facts saying she was hulled by the visible part of the berg, for one they werent there two any evedence supporting it is either buried or in such a state it cant be recognised.

But my main issue is how does a visible portion which is above water hit the ship below the waterline and sink it? it would have to hit the ship in a visible place above the waterline, which would have ment she wouldnt have sank.

[Blacklight]

If you look at the vast number of ships out there that weren't christened, you'd find that the number that sink are actually pretty low.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Its not that i have strong feelings for the matter in hand titanic but from what i know you can be 300 feet from the visable part of the iceberg and yet still hit it from its submersible part.

Agreed, Kapitan. Of course, that's a given. Because your username is 50% of mine, thus we're kind of..brothers. :o

:rotfl::rotfl:

[Blacklight]

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2531/lochness2lgqw9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

Periscope spotted sir !!! :D

[bradclark1]

Finally, the Bermuda triangle has a higher rate of maritime occurence (Although a lot of it is just overeporting) simply due to a higher traffic level. A couple of other factors make it worst, like the weather system and the fact that all the islands look the same (Plus, the caribean sea is SHALLOW once you're west of Puerto Rico. Seriously, it amazed me), and everybody's screaming ghost.
Go ahead, ruin it for me!!:x
Logic has no business in the Triangle.

[Lt West]

bradclark1 ruin what for you i mean really the bermuda triangles full of death!!!!
with out logic what would be the no explaination for the triangle clearly you have no idea what oyur talking about

[nikimcbee]

I don't believe it for a minute. A ship is only as unlucky as the people on board believe her to be.

Of course, that could become a self-fulfilling prophecy...or curse.
right on the money

[August]

The American privateer General Arnold, a 20-gun brigantine, grounded off Plymouth Massachusetts during the great Christmas blizzard of 1778. Unable to reach the vessel by boat due to the weather and ice floes blocking the harbor, Plymouth residents took three whole days to build a causeway out to the stricken ship where they rescued 36 survivors, all that survived the wait out of a crew of nearly 100.

Local legend has it that the ship grounded on the same day that Benedict Arnold made his decision to turn traitor.

[Lt West]

interesting august that would be a huge coincedence if benedict arnold turned traitor that same day...

[August]

interesting august that would be a huge coincedence if benedict arnold turned traitor that same day...

Well the winter of 78-79 was when he met Peggy Shippen. The daughter of a prominent Philadephia Tory. While the exact moment he made his decision is unknown it had to have been during that time period.

[Lt West]

.................................................. ...........................uh..........

[Brag]

In sailboats, if you change the name, you must sail it backwards and drink rum during the process (ceremonial libation). To make sure no bad will follow, you may as well sing the hoochie-woochie. :D