difool2
02-25-08, 02:32 PM
There's been some talk about making a future edition of the SH franchise MMO (such as in this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=130782 ). Now straight off I am aware that some of you hate the very idea and don't want to even consider it. This is just a feasibility/brainstorming study, and perhaps in the end analysis the idea will not be workable, for various reasons, and then I'll agree with you. I do think for a significant proportion of the fanbase the idea has a certain kind of appeal; here at last we can do wolfpacks, H/K groups, schnellboot raids, and so on all in one package, against other humans and not nerfed/uber/brainless AI. So here goes without any further ado; study assumes we're talking about the Atlantic just for the sake of argument.
The Main Obstacles and Issues, mainly: Playability, or Bang for the Buck
This is the biggie of course. Few want to spend their $13/month (or whatever-pricing is a separate issue) spent doing endless patrols at 1x compression (well some do :D). Hence some concession needs to be made here. After some thought and perusal of old threads I think TC of any sort probably will not work in a MMO environment.
My initial idea was that there would be a global TC factor, up to x8, when nobody is engaged with anybody else. Once an attack commences, then the TC drops to zero for a 100 km radius around the engagement point, but elsewhere, on a sliding logarithmic scale as you get further from the e.p., it scales back up to 8x.
But really TC presents more problems than it solves. In particular player-piloted planes will be in a world of hurt, and even if they run on autopilot as they scream across the landscape at a scaled speed of Mach 3 they won't be able to see anything. There's other issues but I'll drop the subject now and focus on other solutions as in the end TC isn't workable IMHO in a MMO environment.
Scaled Map: In lieu of any TC, the map I think necessarily will need to be scaled down in size. Make it too small tho, and the whole thing becomes a farce of constant battles where nobody will have to wait long at all to find the enemy (or have it find you). I think a 1/4th linear scale (1/16th in terms of area) is probably the best bet-comfortably big enough for units to hide in, not prohibitively huge nor ridiculously tiny. A u-boat at full steam could go from Ireland to Newfoundland (3850 km scaled to 960) in 32 hours or so.
Detection Range: As I said, the battle area will be 1/16th the size of the real thing. Main issue then is that if the detection ranges stay the same AND the ship traffic is also the default (as in GWX-assumes merchants are AI piloted), then it will be much easier to find targets. For playability this isn't a big issue tho purists of course may scoff. If in SH3/4 you can hear another ship via the phones at 32 km then that can be easily tweaked down some as needed during betatesting.
Driving to and From Patrol Zones: This is still an issue of course-enduring an 8-12 hour journey at full steam just to get into the shipping lanes. Likewise for the DD guys, stuck driving the same endless patrol pattern on station for a solid 3 days of real time. Thus I will introduce my idea which should hopefully tip the balance towards feasibility...
The ships you will see on the main strategic map are considered mere placeholders. What that means is that the BdU/RN will send out units on waypointed courses, piloted by the AI, until such time that a human player decides to join in. At that point, the placeholder is replaced by the human's boat/ship, of like type. Thus someone who has a DD can only replace a DD placeholder, and not a corvette, DE, or even BB (likewise for subs from IIA's on up to IXD's). Once in he must remain on station for a minimum of 1/2 hour. He can be joined by other players who can man the various stations in the ship, at a reward of 1/2 the renown gained by the captain, scaled down as more people join the ship. The AI units won't of course be as good as humans at detecting and even attacking other units.
This way the "boring" parts of the patrol don't need to be performed by the players, they can jump in at the expected locations of enemy units (or join in after the AI has detected the enemy) and get the most bang for their buck. Veteran players can take control of the top positions of the Kriegsmarine/RN and issue the various orders, perhaps including R & D, intel, and so on.
Undoubtedly there are holes/issues with this approach, so feel free to poke holes. While I'd appreciate something on the scale of DW for the WWII sub scene, at heart I am a strategist and need a raison de etre to be out on the waves other than to blast holes in enemy ships (which is why something like Navyfield doesn't appeal to me).
The Main Obstacles and Issues, mainly: Playability, or Bang for the Buck
This is the biggie of course. Few want to spend their $13/month (or whatever-pricing is a separate issue) spent doing endless patrols at 1x compression (well some do :D). Hence some concession needs to be made here. After some thought and perusal of old threads I think TC of any sort probably will not work in a MMO environment.
My initial idea was that there would be a global TC factor, up to x8, when nobody is engaged with anybody else. Once an attack commences, then the TC drops to zero for a 100 km radius around the engagement point, but elsewhere, on a sliding logarithmic scale as you get further from the e.p., it scales back up to 8x.
But really TC presents more problems than it solves. In particular player-piloted planes will be in a world of hurt, and even if they run on autopilot as they scream across the landscape at a scaled speed of Mach 3 they won't be able to see anything. There's other issues but I'll drop the subject now and focus on other solutions as in the end TC isn't workable IMHO in a MMO environment.
Scaled Map: In lieu of any TC, the map I think necessarily will need to be scaled down in size. Make it too small tho, and the whole thing becomes a farce of constant battles where nobody will have to wait long at all to find the enemy (or have it find you). I think a 1/4th linear scale (1/16th in terms of area) is probably the best bet-comfortably big enough for units to hide in, not prohibitively huge nor ridiculously tiny. A u-boat at full steam could go from Ireland to Newfoundland (3850 km scaled to 960) in 32 hours or so.
Detection Range: As I said, the battle area will be 1/16th the size of the real thing. Main issue then is that if the detection ranges stay the same AND the ship traffic is also the default (as in GWX-assumes merchants are AI piloted), then it will be much easier to find targets. For playability this isn't a big issue tho purists of course may scoff. If in SH3/4 you can hear another ship via the phones at 32 km then that can be easily tweaked down some as needed during betatesting.
Driving to and From Patrol Zones: This is still an issue of course-enduring an 8-12 hour journey at full steam just to get into the shipping lanes. Likewise for the DD guys, stuck driving the same endless patrol pattern on station for a solid 3 days of real time. Thus I will introduce my idea which should hopefully tip the balance towards feasibility...
The ships you will see on the main strategic map are considered mere placeholders. What that means is that the BdU/RN will send out units on waypointed courses, piloted by the AI, until such time that a human player decides to join in. At that point, the placeholder is replaced by the human's boat/ship, of like type. Thus someone who has a DD can only replace a DD placeholder, and not a corvette, DE, or even BB (likewise for subs from IIA's on up to IXD's). Once in he must remain on station for a minimum of 1/2 hour. He can be joined by other players who can man the various stations in the ship, at a reward of 1/2 the renown gained by the captain, scaled down as more people join the ship. The AI units won't of course be as good as humans at detecting and even attacking other units.
This way the "boring" parts of the patrol don't need to be performed by the players, they can jump in at the expected locations of enemy units (or join in after the AI has detected the enemy) and get the most bang for their buck. Veteran players can take control of the top positions of the Kriegsmarine/RN and issue the various orders, perhaps including R & D, intel, and so on.
Undoubtedly there are holes/issues with this approach, so feel free to poke holes. While I'd appreciate something on the scale of DW for the WWII sub scene, at heart I am a strategist and need a raison de etre to be out on the waves other than to blast holes in enemy ships (which is why something like Navyfield doesn't appeal to me).