What do you think?

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Why do you guys like u-boats? Personally I did not play SH3 a lot because I think playing the role as a nazi kinda make me feel immoral. Yeah, I'm weird that way. It's just a game I know but the idea kinda makes me feel strange. But I'm glad SH4 came out now I feel better kicking some butts and saving the world!:yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

Ah, I will let this go for now. Please, just talk of the uboats and keep the immoral thing out of it.

Thank you.

The Ref

[Torplexed]

Playing the Germans in U-Boats doesn't bother me much. The Nazis never infilitrated the German navy the same way they did the Wermacht to the point where seperate SS divisions were actually created. Most German crews were just doing a dirty difficult job their country had thrust upon them. It is good to be playing the Americans in the sun-dappled Pacific again tho. I find all WW2 diesel sub combat somewhat fascinating. It's the sleek perfect Cold War nuke boats which kinda turn me off.;)

[Rockin Robbins]

from reading all books written by the U-Boat arm of the German Navy. These people were not Nazis. They were Germans defending their motherland. The typical attitude of U-Boat personnel toward Nazis was one of irritation. I don't have any quotes handy. Even Admiral Donitz was not pro-Nazi. He was a professional apolitical warrior, and expected his men to be that way also.

So I have no problem commanding a U-Boat. In better times, they and American submariners would have been friends.

[Torplexed]

I think Suhren was the U-Boat captain, who asked as a joke if Hitler was still in power as he pulled into the dock at port after a patrol. When someone replied yes, he began backing out. :p

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Nice story Torplexed. I would've backed out too. :yep: Not meant to be political. Just prefer to be in a Gato-Class sub than a Type 17 u-boat, that's all.:up: My old man if he was still alive would've ran me out of the house if he knew what I was doing. I could hear him now, "I didn't dodge all those blasted bombs on a RAF airfield to survive and watch you do that!"

R.I.P. Pops still love ya!:yep:

[Torplexed]

The nice thing about a game is that you can divorce yourself somewhat from the stark political realities of the times. I imagine it's more difficult for some of our British cousins. There was a "do you ever feel guilty" thread in the SH3 forum. I do recall a few British players seeing St. George's Cross flapping in the breeze through the periscope and feeling bad yanking the trigger.

[Q3ark]

:smug: ........There was a "do you ever feel guilty" thread in the SH3 forum. I do recall a few British players seeing St. George's Cross flapping in the breeze through the periscope and feeling bad yanking the trigger.

That was one of the reasons I couldn't get into it, it just didn't feel right. I know it's irational to feel that way, after all it's just a video game but I am an irational kind of a guy :).

[DS]

I always preferred the Pacific theatre and fleet boats to the Atlantic and U-Boats.

That said, U-Boats do present some challenges: less fire power, less speed, primative radar (if at all), and a technologically advanced adversary (especially in the later years).

In my view, the u-boat's key advantages over the fleet boats was deeper diving depths and later, the snorkel, both of which are defensive advantages.

The fleet boats on the other hand, had speed, fire power, and radar, all of which are advantageous offensivly as well as defensivly. I think fleet boats give me more tactical options and flexibility to make game play interesting.

That said, I do still enjoy the odd U-boat cruise for atmosphere.

[Kaleun]

hi,

As a brit i enjoyed playing it, as a mark of respect towards our changing tactics, techniques and technology! It was interesting to see how the british became the hunters and succeeded - being on the receiving end of that in '44 in the game was painfully scary! Some say that if the type XXI was available at the beginning of the war things would have turned out differently - i doubt it! you develop technology and tactics to beat what is in front of you! we as the allies would have developed more advanced measures to deal with this more advanced foe.

Kaleun

[Torplexed]

:smug: ........There was a "do you ever feel guilty" thread in the SH3 forum. I do recall a few British players seeing St. George's Cross flapping in the breeze through the periscope and feeling bad yanking the trigger.
That was one of the reasons I couldn't get into it, it just didn't feel right. I know it's irational to feel that way, after all it's just a video game but I am an irational kind of a guy :).

I've never felt too guilty about seeing the stars and stripes in the periscope. I guess I console myself with the sure knowledge and pride that America's vast shipbuilding industry will more than make up for any tiny dent I put in it. ;)

Rationalize....rationalize.:p

[prologos]

Nice thread!
I personally, like submarines in general ever since I watched a Greek movie when I was about 10 years old (the movie being "Ipovrihio Papanikolis" which means "Submarine Papanikolis") about the feats of a Greek submarine in WWII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_submarine_Papanikolis_%28%CE%A5-2%29) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_submarine_Papanikolis_%28%CE%A5-2%29%29). My "affection" towards U-boats began after seeing the old time sub classic "Das Boot":rock:.

Whaaaaaat? You haven't seen that and you call yourshelf a subsim member????? Ten lashes please!!!

As mentioned above I honestly think that most of the U-boat's captains and crews weren't nazis, just as all US sub captains couldn't be all republicans or democrats. I also have read that when Donitz was on trial on Nuremberg mostly for his order towards U-boats to wage unrestricted submarine warfare and not pick up survivors (after a U-boat was attacked by RAF when rescuing survivors of a ship it had torpedoed) one of the witnesses on his defence was his American counterpart who stated that USA did exactly the same thing against Japan.
Also a major factor for many people prefering the U-boats is the ability to experience WWII from a perspective different than that of the victors as the vast majority of sims/games with a WWII theme are presented by the allied side.
On the other hand I really enjoy my time now as a US captain and affectionally remember the good old days of Silent Service II.
BTW does anyone know where I can find a torrent of the movie "Run Silent Run Deep" ?

greetings from Greece

[momo55]

I wonder if there are japanese gamers playing SH 4 :hmm:

[Torplexed]

I wonder if there are japanese gamers playing SH 4 :hmm:

Going by the Japanese subforum we have here I guess they are:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108895

But, what they're saying I couldn't tell you. :D

[Rockin Robbins]

And it's perfectly clear to me!
Two days ago, his hands also received SH4.

やや本格的に動かしてみましたが、単位が不統一(フィートとメートル)だったり Rather it is a drastic move, the unit is disunity DATTARI (feet and meters)
何かの調子でゲームが落ちたり(メモリーも何割かが開放されない)と悪い部分ばかりに目が行き ます。 Something in the tone of the game was fall or (memory percent of what is open or not) and just look bad part is bars.

ですが、グラフィックの設定がMidleでも充分綺麗だったり、細かい演出が用意されていたり と But the graphics settings are beautiful enough but Midle or very fine producer and is included ITARI
今後へ繋がる良い部分があるのも確かですね。 Leads to the future is certainly a good part of it.

PS
ドイツの潜水艦の方が、アメリカの潜水艦より優れている事を実感したのは内緒です German submarines have a better American submarine realized that it is a secret. :up:

OK, maybe not.:rotfl:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Good grief, RR is an Alien!:lol: Just kidding! :rotfl:

[walrusbomb]

lot of excellent points already made about the German Navy.

it's hard, sometimes, to forget that the Nazis were just another political party. Peel back another layer and you'll find turmoil *inside* the Nazi-party (especially when discussing the Navy *and* Northern Africa).

Morality is a slippery slippery slope.

[AkbarGulag]

I will not play SH3 again, because simply it is old technology. I always love and appreciate new things and technology.

As for what is preffered, I really prefer the atlantic, the whole 'Heavy' feel. I feel more vulnerable and the extra dive depth, well, that just adds to the pressure. I guess it comes down to your own individual imagination.

As far as Nazi's are concerned? After volunteering for the New Zealand Army, my grandfather served in N. Africa, Greece, Crete (he was defending the North West Airfield there, AA guns.. was rear guard observer in Greece) and fought at Monte Casino. Whenever I see a dark skinned soldier in WW2 african footage I try and see if it's him ^^. His take on the Germans, he had a lot of respect. I spent a lot of time pestering him and was the only family member he ever told his stories to. He thought the Germans were great soldiers who had the same dirty job as he did. He felt no animosity, and he never reffered to them as 'Nazi's'.

I'm sure this is true of many services... when you had a job like those guys had, I guess politics is the furthest thing from your mind.

When asked about the prospect of being a prisoner, his attitude was it was better to be taken by a german than any other nation, he said 'you could trust them'. This may have been unique to the north african theatre, but it gives you an insight into the reality of politics for an average soldier.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Rommel's Afrika Korps was indeed a different set of soldiers than say, the Waffen-SS. In fact Rommel let go a group of Jewish soldiers in North Africa. So I can understand your Father saying he was safe. Can't say for the rest of the occupied lands the nazis took. They murdered most of them. I read the book "Black Angels"- A History of the Waffen-SS and they did some monstrous things. I know that some Hitler Jugend served in the Kreigsmarine and they too were a fanatical bunch.

Hey, I found this article about the u-boat off the coast of my home island.

http://www.newsday.co.tt/people/print,0,29835.html

[Schlippittz]

I prefer the U-boats. I have a fascination with the WWII era German military. I tell that to some people and they think I'm a wannabe Nationalsozialistische, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I just admire their hardware, their way of fighting a war, and maaaan did they know how to dress a soldier. It always seemed to me that a US GI looked like a slob next to a nattily attired member of the Wehrmacht, with their long grey coats and such.

Haha, so I guess I'm into their fashion more than the fascism! :lol:

The Hitlerjugend didn't really make it into combat until the end of the war when Germany was starving for manpower. Then they started sending the 15 and 16 year old graduates of Hitlerjugend programs to the front lines. I agree with previous assessments of the German military; most of them were not Nazis, and were just doing what they felt like was their duty to their uniform and the Fatherland.

[Capn_Sinky]

Read "Submarine!" by Ed. Beech and then read "Iron Coffins" for a comparison. Both started about the same time and had very similar experiences. A great comparison. Will also help with your tatics.

I also read a story about the American submariner who after WWII took command of the I400 for testing and sailed it to Hawaii. The american crews had to work next to the Japanese sailors to learn how operate the boat. How scarry would that be.

"You pull lever GI and boat dive, sure, you go ahead and try, Japanese boat dive fast, you see" :o

It was also very interesting when he was talking with the Japanese Sub commanders and they were swaping war stories. It was always in terms of "us" and "them". "Us" meant submarines and "Them" meant surface vessles regardless of nationality.:yep:

[AkbarGulag]

Hey, I found this article about the u-boat off the coast of my home island.
http://www.newsday.co.tt/people/print,0,29835.html

I had a teacher from Trinidad&Tobago at school, she was awesome. At the time, she did something I had never seen before, she brought her 2 year old daughter to school, from then on she brought her everyday. In all my years as a student (15), I had never seen a teachers child at school ^^

I get the impression she just thought it was normal and didn't even ask :p Thats NZ of back then for you, if you did something unexpected, people just accepted it.

Great story in there DavyJones, interesting little snap of life in the carribean. NZ had 500,000 US serviceman here during WW2.... we had a population of about 1.5 million ^^ My Grandfather said resentment was common to that fact while on duty in Europe. The boys just wanted to come home and fight the Japanese, rather than have all these 'yanks' here shagging their girlfriends. England of course wasn't interested, thus the titanic shift in NZ foreign defence policy from that time on. Thus the new relationship with the US was born, a country that actually shared the same ocean! Well, got along until the US got pissy about our non-nuclear legislation anyway :88)

Hello Capn_Sinky, an articulate audience welcomes you :lol:

[Platapus]

I like sub games because of the sneakyness.

You can't wade in, a-guns a-blazin. You have to plan and wait. Picking the best time to strike. I find sub games much more mentally stimulating (which does not take much with my mind :88) )

I also like the weaknesses of subs once the moment of surprise is gone.

I also like the solo type play although that really should not be incorporated in SH3 due to the wolf-packs.

I don't have a problem playing the Germans. It is a simulation of history. I find the prospect of killing British no more or less abhorrent than killing Japanese. I would not like to kill either in real life.

I guess my "attitude" mimics many of the real life Kregsmarine in that there was nothing personal, just a duty to do.

And, of course, I never forget it is just a frickin game

[prologos]

my grandfather served in N. Africa, Greece, Crete (he was defending the North West Airfield there, AA guns.. was rear guard observer in Greece) and fought at Monte Casino.

Greek here!!!:) That's the Maleme Airfield, present day Chania. The fiersiest battles in Crete were fought there. My grandfather (from my father's side) also took part in the battle, after the capitulation of the main Greek Army fighting the Italians in Albania, when Germans invaded Greece from the NE borders with Bulgaria and Jugoslavia. In fact he came across many German columns on his way back to Athens (and later by boat smuggled to Crete and after the fall of the island to Egypt). He told me that the Germans really respected them and in fact they were given orders not to take Greek prisoners as a token of respect from Hitler in the way they fought (and humiliated) Mussolini. He was later incarserated by the English in Egypt (made a force march through the desert and send to prison camp in Libya) after the Greek Army of Middle East mutinied near the end of the war, in regard of political issues conserning the resime Greece should have after the liberation.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Wow, AckbarGulag nice to know you met one of us in NZ. I played cricket once with a group from NZ a long time ago. Nice chaps.:up: