Way of the Warrior - Way of the Samurai

[Happy Times]

Beautiful. Anyone know how this culture is doing these days?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9HR7TTOReE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEeW-CFyJVc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX9Zn6k1poE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IreQsNHSoK8&feature=related

[AntEater]

Well, as a (beginner, 6th Kyu) Kendoka, I suppose that culture is pretty much alive...
:)

[Happy Times]

Well, as a (beginner, 6th Kyu) Kendoka, I suppose that culture is pretty much alive...
:)

They claim Kendo isnt same as this.

[Happy Times]

Hey, didnt skybird do this?

[AntEater]

Well, Kendo is a competitive sport developed out of the martial arts of the Samurai.
It is more ritualized and the rules center more on a correct hit, on "ki, ken tai ichi", "zanshin" and perfection than on killing somebody.
I suppose the real samurai gave a **** about the perfect unity of kiai, strike, footwork and mind and just gutted their opponent at the first opportunity.
The Katas are more like traditional Swordfighting, but Kendo is a bit like fencing, at least like Fencing before the invention of electric hit counting suits.
Still, you're pretty much handling the Shinai as if it were a sword, like turning the thing while striking sideways in order to hit the enemy with the nonexisting "blade" of the bamboo.
But compared to fencing it is still a lot more agressive, involves a whole lot more movement (field is square, not a planche like in fencing).
There are alternate schools teaching different Kendo stances as well, like a wholly different Kamae.

[Happy Times]

Well, Kendo is a competitive sport developed out of the martial arts of the Samurai.
It is more ritualized and the rules center more on a correct hit, on "ki, ken tai ichi", "zanshin" and perfection than on killing somebody.
I suppose the real samurai gave a **** about the perfect unity of kiai, strike, footwork and mind and just gutted their opponent at the first opportunity.
The Katas are more like traditional Swordfighting, but Kendo is a bit like fencing, at least like Fencing before the invention of electric hit counting suits.
Still, you're pretty much handling the Shinai as if it were a sword, like turning the thing while striking sideways in order to hit the enemy with the nonexisting "blade" of the bamboo.
But compared to fencing it is still a lot more agressive, involves a whole lot more movement (field is square, not a planche like in fencing).
There are alternate schools teaching different Kendo stances as well, like a wholly different Kamae.

You have any idea what the unarmed combat techniques might be that they talked about in the end? :hmm:

[AntEater]

There are (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_martial_arts) ancient and modern Budo disciplines

Kenjutsu is the traditional form of swordsmanship, from which Kendo is derived, it concentrates more on Kata and single practice and cannot (AFAIK) be fought in a competitive fashion like Kendo. Iaido is another offshoot which is mainly a meditative form.
Traditionally, unarmed combat forms are Sumo and Jujutsu
Judo and Aikido are modern unarmed combat forms.
Judo is a competitive form of Jujutsu without the more nasty stuff while Aikido is the stuff that Steven Seagal did when he was still cool...
Other Budo disciplines are spear fighting and archery, which is divided in competitive shooting and meditative shooting.
I once read somewhere that there even used to be a japanese martial arts dealing with the best way to shoot a matchlock musket or arquebuse.
:D

[Happy Times]

There are (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_martial_arts) ancient and modern Budo disciplines

Kenjutsu is the traditional form of swordsmanship, from which Kendo is derived, it concentrates more on Kata and single practice and cannot (AFAIK) be fought in a competitive fashion like Kendo. Iaido is another offshoot which is mainly a meditative form.
Traditionally, unarmed combat forms are Sumo and Jujutsu
Judo and Aikido are modern unarmed combat forms.
Judo is a competitive form of Jujutsu without the more nasty stuff while Aikido is the stuff that Steven Seagal did when he was still cool...
Other Budo disciplines are spear fighting and archery, which is divided in competitive shooting and meditative shooting.
I once read somewhere that there even used to be a japanese martial arts dealing with the best way to shoot a matchlock musket or arquebuse.
:D

If there are men that are masters in all of those that would make him a true killing machine.:huh:

[Skybird]

Hey, didnt skybird do this?
My mentor taught me the martial and mental function of swordfighting, whereas Kendo, as Anteater already pointed out, is more a sports meant as a regulated, ritualised competition with rules and forms to be followed, and to a lesser degree also a mental balancing thing. I never did Kendo, although sometimes referred to my training as that, to cut long explanations short. Theory was not on the timetable, only training and meditation. Long explanations on terms and rituals cannot satisfy your soul, nor do they help you to form your skills and survive in a fight. Theory cannot replace experience and practice. All that almost always is distraction only. There is just your mind, and what it does. The mind hits, not the sword. If your mind does not value the issue of the conflict worth it, you better don't fight, then.

Sport fencing for example does not aim to hurt or kill, but to score, and even hits that would neither kill nor hurt score a point, and this leads to a different technique of how to use an épée - they would do differently with a real rapier if needing to fight for their life, or wanting to kill. It is sports, not fighting, becasue duelling sports are a ritualised way of fighting only, starting with team sports, leading over tennis and racing competitions, and ending with biathlon, Judo and fencing. I tried épée fencing six or seven months during my first semestre at university. But I did not get used to both the different technique and handling of that sports "toy" (compared to a real katana), and the orientation towards making points when striking, not to kill, also felt strange after having done differently for so many years before (in fact I started it only because in the Start Trek novels i read at that time Sulu often was training fencing :) ). For me, fighting with a sword is no sports, but training with it is intended to be a tool of fighting to kill - not to score points. That'S how my mentor understood it, and that's the way I understand it as well. I think this difference is very important, because both motivations (sports versus killing, with the possebility to get killed) form your mind and focus in different ways, and influence the way you train and fight, and your general attitude. It affects your stand on life and death, and changes your inner balance.

I just watched the first video, and now head to the other three parts. Beautiful. thanks for sharing!

I just disagree that it is wise to live in ways of the past just to practice the old ways of fighting, like that master seem to live offside the living ways of the present (on the other hand: what esxactly is the present living way? :) ). The world has changed, and a warrior-minded man has to take that into account, else he is learning to fight only in a way and in a world that both no longer exist - thus he learns something that is useless and in vain. Seen that way, a sword master is much more than just somebody who can swing a sword in a technically competent and efficient way: it is an inner attitude towards things, a stand or approach onto challenges in your life, a way of how you deal with your life and death, and not to waste time to care for the difference in certain situations. You can be a swordmaster - without ever having had a sword in your hand.

But it cannot be bad to know how to handle a sword as well. ;)

In the end, the deciding battlefield is not outside, but inside yourself.

So...? :hmm:

[mrbeast]

Cool vids, Happy Times:up:

How about some European martial arts?

Check this IMHO very cool video on You Tube. Bear in mind this is not stage combat, its interpretations of genuine European medieval combat technique (performed at half speed for saftey and so you can see whats going on) taken from real manuscripts dating to the 14th and 15th century.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg

[Happy Times]

Some modern pankration groups have re-introduced classical Hellenic culture into contemporary martial arts (sport, athleticism, philosophy, ethics, and all-around personal development)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

Pankration: The Original Martial Art PART 1 OF 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Za_hmzNbQ

[mrbeast]

Thats very interesting I had no idea that ancient Greek martial arts existed in a practical form like that. I was aware that the ancient greeks wrestled and boxed but I didn't know there was such a developed form. They did a pretty good job of recreating and interpeting from ancient paintings and sculpture. :yep:

[Happy Times]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Moo_Do


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3gw2fpUGdg&feature=related

[Rhodes]

Isn't karate also (modern) unarmed combat form?

And Skybird when You experimented fencing, the grip of the sword (sword/saber/foil) was strait or like the modern ones that the grip is like a pistol grip?

[Skybird]

Isn't karate also (modern) unarmed combat form?

And Skybird when You experimented fencing, the grip of the sword (sword/saber/foil) was strait or like the modern ones that the grip is like a pistol grip?
Pistol grip - now, very different than like you hold and handle a katana, I tell you. :lol: Never figured out how that thing fires, though. :know:

But I also had a problem with the white fencing overalls you wear, keflar jacket underneath, and the relatively thick, padded overall, and then the mask with the huge frame around your face: you can't really do without that, but I have a malfunction of my glands and thus problems with my metabolism due to excessive production of adrenaline, one smyptom is that I sweat like a waterfall and do not react to well to warm temperatures. that was a problem for me when I travelled in much warmer countries, and when fencing - in that kind of cloathing - I drowned in my own sweat and always was close to overheating. Doesn'T feel good.

[Skybird]

Cool vids, Happy Times:up:

How about some European martial arts?

Check this IMHO very cool video on You Tube. Bear in mind this is not stage combat, its interpretations of genuine European medieval combat technique (performed at half speed for saftey and so you can see whats going on) taken from real manuscripts dating to the 14th and 15th century.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg
I like that stuff, especially when they handle the sword not only via the grip, but holding the blade itself too, and using it more like a combat stick, or a spear. I reminds me of a technique that I learned too, and which was meant to enable using a katana even in the narrowest spaces like a lift cabin, that prohibit the ordinary fighting styles. Prefered of course is wide space, especially for a katana that is designed to hack and chop, not so much to stab and slice. but you CAN very effectively fight with such a long weapon in limited space.

Okay, they had not lift cabins in Japan back then, but you get the idea... :lol:

[Yahoshua]

Isn't karate also (modern) unarmed combat form?

And Skybird when You experimented fencing, the grip of the sword (sword/saber/foil) was strait or like the modern ones that the grip is like a pistol grip?

Are you talking about how to properly grip the sword? Or are you talking about the tang/hilt of the sword itself?

[Skybird]

Isn't karate also (modern) unarmed combat form?

And Skybird when You experimented fencing, the grip of the sword (sword/saber/foil) was strait or like the modern ones that the grip is like a pistol grip?

Are you talking about how to properly grip the sword? Or are you talking about the tang/hilt of the sword itself?
He does not talk about a sword or katana, but what in German is called a "Degen" (rapier? épée?) as it is used in sports fencing. "Florett" (foil?) and "Säbel" (sabre) have normal grips in sports fencing, but foils can have normal grips, or things that remind of a pistol grip. Difference between the three sports weapons is that rules allow them to score by touching different target areas of the opponent's body.

[mrbeast]

I like that stuff, especially when they handle the sword not only via the grip, but holding the blade itself too, and using it more like a combat stick, or a spear. I reminds me of a technique that I learned too, and which was meant to enable using a katana even in the narrowest spaces like a lift cabin, that prohibit the ordinary fighting styles. Prefered of course is wide space, especially for a katana that is designed to hack and chop, not so much to stab and slice. but you CAN very effectively fight with such a long weapon in limited space.

Okay, they had not lift cabins in Japan back then, but you get the idea... :lol:


Thats a technique called 'half-swording'. You grasp the blunt portion of the blade near the guard to give greater power to a thrust or better control.

This site here is very good, has lots of info on swords and associated techniques

http://www.myarmoury.com/home.html

[Rhodes]

Isn't karate also (modern) unarmed combat form?

And Skybird when You experimented fencing, the grip of the sword (sword/saber/foil) was strait or like the modern ones that the grip is like a pistol grip?

Are you talking about how to properly grip the sword? Or are you talking about the tang/hilt of the sword itself?
He does not talk about a sword or katana, but what in German is called a "Degen" (rapier? épée?) as it is used in sports fencing. "Florett" (foil?) and "Säbel" (sabre) have normal grips in sports fencing, but foils can have normal grips, or things that remind of a pistol grip. Difference between the three sports weapons is that rules allow them to score by touching different target areas of the opponent's body.

Yes, I was talking about the "weapons" use in (modern) fencing today. The questions was post because I did some fencing because my father used practice and teach when was young. And the weapons that we used (and still have), from 20 years ago :D have a strait grip, and the ones that are use know in competition have a pistol grip, that enables some moviments more fast if using a strait grip. My father always said that the 2 or 3 last fingers was need to do diffrents moves and know with the modern grips, one can do that more easy and fast.

Never hold a rapier or what we can call the medieval swords( but liked to) but katanas yes and also did some kendo, since my father need some adversary to train, even if I was only doing some poor stuff ( and since my opponent was my father, he could hit me any time and I couldn't argue...:rotfl:).

Of oriental martial arts, I pratice karate, but even if I wanted to practice medieval sword fight, kenjutsu, kendo, ai-do, even fencing I need to go out my home city. And even in major cities here, the first I said, only in the capital.

Never figured out how that thing fires, though. :know: Ehehehe:up: :lol: