Spain, Portugal and Others-no naval forces?

[HundertzehnGustav]

From Venezuela Peru to Egypt....

wich DDs did they actually use?
Some Nations only have the armed Merchant (the tugboat type), The French Fries can be happy to have their Bourrasque DDs, but eh, what about Spain?
What about the French Big Boys? Netherlands? they had a Coastal defense ship didnt they? no DDs for the Netherlanders?
if we gave them a Hunt I, would that be unfair?
I cannot believe that the Fins aint got no proper Warships either... with so much coast? what about "Niobe"? was that not one of theirs?

The goal is to give each nation at least some sort of Naval Forces in the rooster, an A/B Class DD is better than no DD at all!

Hell even the Poles got some better Ships (V/W DDs in `39) than the Netherlands Navy!

what do you say?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Hell even the Poles got some better Ships (V/W DDs in `39) than the Netherlands Navy!
Doh! :stare:

:arrgh!:

[HundertzehnGustav]

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.unithistories.com/units_dutch/images/navy_destroyer_banckert.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.unithistories.com/units_dutch/navy_destroyers.asp&h=326&w=686&sz=43&hl=fr&start=215&um=1&tbnid=Zx2ijk3xyxRCdM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddutch%2Bnavy%26start%3D198%26ndsp%3D1 8%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfr%26sa%3DN

nothing against them Poles, i had a Polish Grandma myself...

but eh, why do these other Nations not speak up?

Hell if Luxembourg Had Had (HAD had) a Navy back then, i would want each one of our DDs Gunboats and Minelayers in the Game.
and Aircraft Carriers and BBs too.



SOOOOOOOOOOO
the NL had some proper ass DDs, from 1925 onwards.
maybe we can base them on the VW or C Class Hulls and reequip them with older guns and weaker AAA?

something for the moding forum.

[Mush Martin]

From Venezuela Peru to Egypt....

wich DDs did they actually use?
Some Nations only have the armed Merchant (the tugboat type), The French Fries can be happy to have their Bourrasque DDs, but eh, what about Spain?
What about the French Big Boys? Netherlands? they had a Coastal defense ship didnt they? no DDs for the Netherlanders?
if we gave them a Hunt I, would that be unfair?
I cannot believe that the Fins aint got no proper Warships either... with so much coast? what about "Niobe"? was that not one of theirs?

The goal is to give each nation at least some sort of Naval Forces in the rooster, an A/B Class DD is better than no DD at all!

Hell even the Poles got some better Ships (V/W DDs in `39) than the Netherlands Navy!

what do you say?

I have a fairly complete list actually for just about every nation.
If you can find it locally
Richard Worths "Fleets of World War II" Da Capo press
is worth it and cheap these days. but getting harder to find.

M

[Fusek]

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/

Seems like the Dutch had at least Town and N class DD's, as well as several ships of their own design. Not to forget the O class subs, which resemble the British S class found in the game (gwx2)

[sturmer]

it would be a good idea to add ships to the netherlands and stuff.
but isnt that more a question for the mod department?

sturmer

[ridgewayranger]

Hi Everyone,
I seem to detect some sneering at European navies of WW2. Basically, if a country had a coastline it had a navy and some good ships. The Dutch had a respectable force but unfortunately got decimated in the Pacific under Admiral Karel Doorman, mainly due to the lack of a common language in the T.F.
A look at WWW.netherlandsnavy.nl (http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl) will show what I mean. The Poles also had a useful navy, including submarines. The Spanish were 'neutral'????? so didn't come into the equation.
R.R.

[bigboywooly]

Netherland
~~~~~~~~~~
Sea
C3Cargo.cfg
CHT.cfg
COFlower.cfg < NL CO Frisio
COT.cfg
DDNClass.cfg < NL Van Galen\NL Tjerk Hiddes
DDTown.cfg < HNMS Campbeltown
FFRiverClass.cfg < HNMS Johan Maurits van Nassau
FishBoatL.cfg
FishingBoat.cfg
FishingBoat1.cfg
FishingBoat2.cfg
GRA.cfg
HarbourTugBoat.cfg
KBL.cfg
KCA.cfg
KGN.cfg
KLS.cfg
KSQ.cfg
KSS.cfg
LGH.cfg
LLS.cfg
LSQ.cfg
LSS.cfg
LTgBoat.cfg
LTMS.cfg
LTSF.cfg
M35B.cfg
NECT.cfg
NF_boat_4.cfg
NOTCW.cfg
NRC.cfg
NSCT.cfg
NWP.cfg
OTMS.cfg
OTMST2.cfg
OTSF.cfg
PBTrawler.cfg
PTR.cfg
SD.cfg < Columbia
SJT.cfg
TugBoat.cfg
Submarine
Sclass.cfg < HNMS Zeehond
Tclass.cfg < HNMS Zwaardvisch

[Einzelganger]

In GWX 1.03 i've seen a Dutch DD docked once in Loch Ewe. Unfortunately at that time The Netherlands were still neutral though, so a no go....

I suppose they'll be there in GWX2 aswell but the fact that they are rare compared to some other countries seems historically pretty realistic to me.

[deepboat]

Dutch Navy in action?:D http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/deepboat/SH3Img30-1-2008_223542_593.jpg

[deepboat]

Looks like the guy on top of the bridge is still doing his job!http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/deepboat/SH3Img30-1-2008_223710_140.jpg

[Rhodes]

Who are you calling a no-naval force????:stare: :stare: :stare: hummm?

We had the famous cod fishing sailling ship fleet called the "White Fleet", after the white sails of the ships. Sailling ships of 3 and 4 masts that sailled all together in a convoy, only with the power of the wind, travelling to the Newfoundland cod banks.

http://www.ancruzeiros.pt/ancv-gazela-e.html

http://www.whitepinepictures.com/seeds/ii/22/sidebar.html

http://www.ancruzeiros.pt/ancv-creoula.html

And if I know anything about creating ships to SH3 I would this fleet and added to the game to one see a neutral convoy of sailling ships leaving Portugal to Newfoundland.


:p :p :p :p

;)
Eheheheheh

[HundertzehnGustav]

okokok the dutch are good.
i mean... they were among the top five sailing nations of all times, along with the french, uk, spain and others.

what about peru?
Mejico?
Spain?
Portugal?
Spain i found nothing on-or mebe looked in a bad direction? any Spaniards in here?
Egypt?
*insert your favourite country here*?

[HundertzehnGustav]

Yea, Rhodes, Germany had training shipy like that too, the Gorch Fock and others... actually built during the 1930 period.

What about portuguese Destroyers? Naval Warfare ships between 1939 and 1945?
Hell they have F16s today, so they must have dad a PROPER navy back then?

[bigboywooly]

Yes Spain etc all had warships BUT we dont have them ingame as there arent any models available
:up:

[HundertzehnGustav]

so just have some MERCY, and give them a few four-stackers, or russian subchasers...

recently i fiddled with the Campaign SCR file, and to my horror found that near Coruna/Ferrol/spain the Big arse 25 cm guns were missing, those that defend the whole bay.
then i wanted to let them have some patrols at least... and screamt in pain as to what was available for the task.

JEEESE let us sell them a few schnellboote, vorpostenboote or Torpedoboote 1924 at the very least!?
nobody know the FAIR PLAY concept in here?

what would the Spanish goverment defend itself with? throwing shoes?

Portugal is just as desperate... if the germans had decided to invade their islands in the atlantic (for uboat and FW200 condor operations) the Portuguese could have used.... armed rawlers to stop them!

woah.

now that aint nice...

[bigboywooly]

Well when you create your " whatif " mod you can give them what you like

[Einsman]

Spanish warships 1939.

Cruisers. Canarias Class

http://www.historialago.com/av_n_cp_canarias_02.jpg

Laid down: 15 August 1928. Launched: 28 May 1931. Completed: September 1936. Retired : December 1975


Cruiser. Cervera Class

http://www.historialago.com/av_n_cl_almircervera_01.jpg

Laid down: 14 April 1923. Launched: 16 October 1925. Completed: 15 September 1928 Retired : 31 August 1965.

Cruiser Miguel De Cervantes

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9719/migueldecervantesmpl587tn4.jpg

Laid down: March 1926. Launched: 18 May 1928. Completed: 14 February 1930 Retired : 1 July 1964.

Light Cruiser Mendez Nuñez

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4238/mendeztx6.jpg

Laid down: 1915. Launched: July 1922. Completed: September 1924 Retired : 8 February 1964.

More info in: http://www.kbismarck.com/mgl/spanishcivwar.htm

Regards

[KeptinCranky]

That Canarias Class looks similar to the Italian Zara Heavy Cruiser.. an enterprising modder could probably do something with it.

Spain had at least 2 Battleships at the beginning of the Civil War, I don't know what happened to those

Netherlands had some coastal defence ships, those got sunk or captured in 1940 and some Cruisers but most of those were off in the Netherlands East Indies and never encountered any Uboat, but got sunk by the Japanese

Finland had Vainamoinen and Ilmarinen Coastal Defence ships, basically non-oceaic battleships, those saw some action against Russia, one was sunk by a mine

The whole missing ships issue can be applied to France (especially), Argentina, Brazil and such nations as well

there's also a plethora of British cruiser classes missing, but then we're out there to sink merchies not semi-obsolete wwI type cruisers

and ummm, Luxembourg? a Navy? :o but why? :D

[Rhodes]

Yea, Rhodes, Germany had training shipy like that too, the Gorch Fock and others... actually built during the 1930 period.

What about portuguese Destroyers? Naval Warfare ships between 1939 and 1945?
Hell they have F16s today, so they must have dad a PROPER navy back then?

Yes, but using this kind of ships until the late 60's...to fish cod, were are crazy!

Well we had F-16 but last week one crash so now we have F-15 :rotfl: ( oki, bad little joke).
I will look for the naval forces in the WW2 period and then post here.:up:

Portugal is just as desperate... if the germans had decided to invade their islands in the atlantic (for uboat and FW200 condor operations) the Portuguese could have used.... armed trawlers to stop them!

Well first of all, we were neutral, and Hilter once said that Portugal didn't have any importance to justify an invasion, only if were the last thing to do after the war was won. If it's true or not, don't know.
Second, Salazar was no dumb man in terms of foreign politics so he manage to conduct things right.
And our best weapon if we were invaded, being ourselfs, our way of life, lazyness easing going and "if I can do what I am suppost to do tomorow insted of today", complitly opose to the "german way of doing things" I think that the german arm forces and state of the time would run away after so time... :p

[coronas]

@Einsman: Good work.
Spanish destroyers Churruca Class were very similar to V&W destroyers. Many Spanish warship were building under English tecnical advice. Italy gave some old light warships to Nationalist Navy.
Two little battleships (España & Jaime I) were lost in Civil war. Nationalist España by mines near Santander and Republican Jaime I by internal explosion in Cartagena.
More information and pictures: http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques1/buques1.htm

[HundertzehnGustav]

Well first of all, we were neutral, and Hilter once said that Portugal didn't have any importance to justify an invasion, only if were the last thing to do after the war was won. If it's true or not, don't know.
Second, Salazar was no dumb man in terms of foreign politics so he manage to conduct things right.
And our best weapon if we were invaded, being ourselfs, our way of life, lazyness easing going and "if I can do what I am suppost to do tomorow insted of today", complitly opose to the "german way of doing things" I think that the german arm forces and state of the time would run away after so time... :p

JESUS, Rhodes, i have to confirm your lazyness thing right there...
many Portuguese Men and Families went over here (Luxembourg) in the past, and, even though we MUST respect them because in this country they do the hardest construction jobs and take on any kind of work for a good pay, we still call them "Lazy"...:D

Others...

Vamonos muchachos.
That is some proper stuff.

let me set up Pack3D and some other things and we can have Iberian forces soon.

What if i went to a neutral port like Ferrol and found a merchant? an allied merchant, in 1943, armed and angry?

THEN, Friends we need the the Spanish to be armed too!
it would be like a german and a brit doing a Boxmatch at a Spanish Party.
The Spanish would kick them both out and tell them to go feck themselves.
(and they would have fun kickin us, too!)

THAT is why we need every Country to have a proper Navy.
Neutral or not, ones got to respect himself and keep the house clean.
:|\\ :D

[HundertzehnGustav]

This is what i am talking about, baby.
http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/buques1/churru2.htm

:rock:

true power

[Rhodes]

JESUS, Rhodes, i have to confirm your lazyness thing right there...
many Portuguese Men and Families went over here (Luxembourg) in the past, and, even though we MUST respect them because in this country they do the hardest construction jobs and take on any kind of work for a good pay, we still call them "Lazy"...:D


I rest my case...ehehhehe

Oki, back to business:

The portuguese naval forces during the WW2 years were:
We got 5 destroyers class Vouga (names are in portuguese because many of the ships were built in Portugal, but many times were based in english classes with some light modifications).

6 "warnigs ships of 1º and 2º" (Avisos, possibly our designation of sloops); 2 ships Class Gonçalo Velho, slight modify version of the class Bridgewater (England would classify as sloops).
And other small arm ships.

Submarines, we got 3 Vickers-Armstrong class subs,the Delfim, the Espadarte andthe Golfinho, made in Barrows.

Pics:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7753/scan1js1.jpg
The "warning" Gonçalo Velho (sloop)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4200/scan2ej3.jpg
The destroyer Tejo of the Vouga Class in 1934!

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9848/sub1db3.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7126/sub2md9.jpg

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3938/sub3ey8.jpg

3 images of the Submarines. The first shows all three Vickers-Armstrong class subs and the next two the Delfim sub.

It´s what I could get in short notice...

[HundertzehnGustav]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwBnV0HZZI

a picture is worth a thousand words.

viva espana...?:D

gunboats and armed tugs, proper DDs and a lot of smiles.:D

[HundertzehnGustav]

double post

[Sniper_Fox]

didnt the Irish have some warships, as an island, that had just achieved partial independence with no navy, we probably felt desperately exposed, and must have built a reasonable defence force

[KeptinCranky]

From Wikipedia on Irish Navy during wwII

1939-1945

In 1939 the Irish Government ordered two Motor Torpedo Boats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Torpedo_Boat) from Vospers UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vosper_%26_Company). When World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) began in September 1939 the Marine and Coastwatching Service was set up. In order for Ireland to remain neutral, it became clear that a full naval service would be required. The government consequentially ordered an additional 4 MTBs. by the end of 1940 the Irish Marine and Coastwatching Service consisted of 6 MTB's and 4 other assorted craft. During the War the Service regulated merchant ships, protected fisheries, and laid mines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine) in Cork and Waterford. When the war ended, the Service was renamed the "Irish Marine Service".

Those few Irish MTBs are already in SH3 :up: