Fire Crew Bosses Who Can't Speak Spanish Can Lose Jobs

[SUBMAN1]

Is it just me, or is this getting so bad that something must be done?

-S

Fire Crew Bosses Who Can't Speak Spanish Can Lose Jobs

Oregon Begins To Strictly Enforce Language Rule

POSTED: 3:46 pm MDT June 22, 2006
UPDATED: 2:26 pm MDT June 23, 2006

With 24 major wildfires burning across the southwestern United States, fire officials need every firefighter they can get. They've done that in Oregon, but it's created another problem.

Officials are now having to lay off some of the bosses who manage those firefighting crews because the bosses are not bilingual. Many of the newer hires in Oregon only speak Spanish.

"What we do know is 85 percent of the crew makeup is of Hispanic descent," said Jim Walker, with the Oregon Department of Forestry.

The state said all bosses must speak the same language of their crew on the fire lines for safety reasons. They want to make sure that the leader of the crews can quickly communicate during an emergencey if the fire turns or if there is another problem on the fire lines.

"Our main concern is that they are safe, and they are in a safe environment, and a lot of that deals with communication," Walker said.

Because of the state's language requirement, Jaime Pickering can no longer work as a crew boss and supervise 20 firefighters. He can only manage a squad of four firefighters.

"If you have one Spanish guy on the crew, as an English crew boss, you can no longer be a crew boss. You have to step back to a squad boss, which is a demotion," Pickering said.

The state of Oregon actually made the change in 2003, after a devastating wildfire season in 2002 had contractors scrambling to find help. The state just started strictly monitoring the law this year, as Hispanics continued to fill fire lines.

"I think the (rule) is good, because that's for safety purpose," said Manuel Franco, who is a contractor for fire crews. He thinks the state's rule is necessary for worker safety.

"If there's a rock rolling down, everybody should understand that," Franco said.But he does wish it were different.

"We're living here. We should speak the language," he said.

So why couldn't the state require that these crew members speak English? The state doesn't have a clear answer."If it comes down to a safety issue, and it's determined that's the only way we can have people safely on an incident, then yes," Walker said.


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/nationalnews/9413390/detail.html

[Stealth Hunter]

Pigs!

The official language of the United States is ENGLISH. You come here, you learn to speak it, or you are removed. That's the way I'd have it set up. Either learn it and pass, or be taken home because you cannot function properly without causing trouble. I'm not saying you must abandon your old language entirely, but there's so many problems right now on this issue that it's gotten extremely out of hand (worse than it was several years ago).

I went to a Burger King in Denver and ordered a Whopper with a Coke. Instead, I received a fish sandwich with an iced tea.:nope: They were Mexicans... of course, and couldn't speak a bit of English (probably illegal, too, and I HATE illegals; I hate them with a passion). The Asians there are just as bad, to boot!:roll:

The government does nothing to solve the issue. It's going to eventually result in riots and war against the Mexicans and Asians in the United States over this crap. It's going to get that bad. Maybe not in the next decade, but it will happen before we know it.

[baggygreen]

Look at it from the dept's point of view. They can either pay for the crews to learn english, or demote the bosses.

which is cheaper??



its always about the cost....

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I went to a Burger King in Denver and ordered a Whopper with a Coke. Instead, I received a fish sandwich with an iced tea.:nope:

Fish sandwich?

Euch. :nope:

[elite_hunter_sh3]

hehe i hate em more then you :arrgh!: and there are not that many in Canada.. but... same situation happened to me at a fast food joint.:down:

[JSLTIGER]

Pigs!

The official language of the United States is ENGLISH. You come here, you learn to speak it, or you are removed. That's the way I'd have it set up. Either learn it and pass, or be taken home because you cannot function properly without causing trouble. I'm not saying you must abandon your old language entirely, but there's so many problems right now on this issue that it's gotten extremely out of hand (worse than it was several years ago).

I went to a Burger King in Denver and ordered a Whopper with a Coke. Instead, I received a fish sandwich with an iced tea.:nope: They were Mexicans... of course, and couldn't speak a bit of English (probably illegal, too, and I HATE illegals; I hate them with a passion). The Asians there are just as bad, to boot!:roll:

The government does nothing to solve the issue. It's going to eventually result in riots and war against the Mexicans and Asians in the United States over this crap. It's going to get that bad. Maybe not in the next decade, but it will happen before we know it.
Actually, technically, the US has no official language. I personally think that it should be made the official language of the US, given that every past immigrant has had to learn it to make it in American society, but Congress has not passed any law creating an official language, leaving that to the states.

hehe i hate em more then you :arrgh!:
We know. :roll:

[Stealth Hunter]

Rather the most common language in the United States is English. As such, to avoid confusion and problematic situations due to the touchy subject, I believe we should make English the official language of the United States of America, AND all immigrants attempting to enter the country would be required to take a course on the English language and successfully pass it with no less than 70% of the questions/problems answered correctly. Otherwise, refusal to enter the country would be initiated, and the test would need to be taken again and again until the person either gives up or passes.

[baggygreen]

been tried here SH, with the citizenship test.

just wait for the left wingers and civil libertarians to jump up and down about it being racist and anti-everything...

[Stealth Hunter]

been tried here SH, with the citizenship test.

just wait for the left wingers and civil libertarians to jump up and down about it being racist and anti-everything...

Sure-fire thing that they'll make such outlandish claims, too. Wonder how many businesses will say the same thing...:hmm:

[Happy Times]

Pigs!

The official language of the United States is ENGLISH. You come here, you learn to speak it, or you are removed. That's the way I'd have it set up. Either learn it and pass, or be taken home because you cannot function properly without causing trouble. I'm not saying you must abandon your old language entirely, but there's so many problems right now on this issue that it's gotten extremely out of hand (worse than it was several years ago).

I went to a Burger King in Denver and ordered a Whopper with a Coke. Instead, I received a fish sandwich with an iced tea.:nope: They were Mexicans... of course, and couldn't speak a bit of English (probably illegal, too, and I HATE illegals; I hate them with a passion). The Asians there are just as bad, to boot!:roll:

The government does nothing to solve the issue. It's going to eventually result in riots and war against the Mexicans and Asians in the United States over this crap. It's going to get that bad. Maybe not in the next decade, but it will happen before we know it.
Actually, technically, the US has no official language. I personally think that it should be made the official language of the US, given that every past immigrant has had to learn it to make it in American society, but Congress has not passed any law creating an official language, leaving that to the states.

hehe i hate em more then you :arrgh!:
We know. :roll:

Wasnt German close to becoming the "official" language also? Most Americans seem still to be of German ancestory.:lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg/800px-Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg

[nikimcbee]

Pigs!

The official language of the United States is ENGLISH. You come here, you learn to speak it, or you are removed. That's the way I'd have it set up. Either learn it and pass, or be taken home because you cannot function properly without causing trouble. I'm not saying you must abandon your old language entirely, but there's so many problems right now on this issue that it's gotten extremely out of hand (worse than it was several years ago).

I went to a Burger King in Denver and ordered a Whopper with a Coke. Instead, I received a fish sandwich with an iced tea.:nope: They were Mexicans... of course, and couldn't speak a bit of English (probably illegal, too, and I HATE illegals; I hate them with a passion). The Asians there are just as bad, to boot!:roll:

The government does nothing to solve the issue. It's going to eventually result in riots and war against the Mexicans and Asians in the United States over this crap. It's going to get that bad. Maybe not in the next decade, but it will happen before we know it.
Actually, technically, the US has no official language. I personally think that it should be made the official language of the US, given that every past immigrant has had to learn it to make it in American society, but Congress has not passed any law creating an official language, leaving that to the states.

hehe i hate em more then you :arrgh!:
We know. :roll:

Wasnt German close to becoming the "official" language also? Most Americans seem still to be of German ancestory.:lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg/800px-Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg


...by 1 vote if I remember right.

[August]

Yeah one vote in Congress. Some folks claim had the vote gone the other way it might have changed who we sided with in WW1. I dunno if i can subscribe to that theory but there it is...

[Torplexed]

@#%*! Dammit! The Norwegians have overrun North Dakota again. Let's just give it to them. No one will miss it. We'll give Finland Upper Michigan while we're at it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg/800px-Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg

[orwell]

been tried here SH, with the citizenship test.

just wait for the left wingers and civil libertarians to jump up and down about it being racist and anti-everything...

A official english language is not racist. At all. It's not a ban on anything. It's enforcement to learn a unifying language. And I fully agree that if you can't speak english on the team, then your off. Maybe bilingual skills should be a factor in choosing who heads it, but if there's one boss and 19 english speakers with one spanish guy, ditch the one. I imagine having a functioning larger unit with one missing is more useful than a guy who isn't familiar with the rest of the team.

Despite equal opportunities saying pinko commie potheads are people too, I just can't believe it.

[Jimbuna]

Only hire English speaking people. Give us Brits more opportunities to work :lol:

Seriously though......there are similarities here with what is happening in the UK :damn:

[Tchocky]

This is from summer 2006 :-?
In the middle of a forest fire emergency.
In which firefighters were desperately needed.
To save lives and property.
Most of the workforce were Hispanic, and some of the team bosses couldn't communicate with them. In a standard situation English should be a requirement, or at least a hiring preference.
But this was an emergency. Firefighters' lives would be put at even more risk if they couldn't communicate. The two options are 1) The bosses have to speak English and Spanish, and 2) the employees have to speak English.

When 85% of your workforce in an emergency situation are Spanish speakers, don't get rid of them all. Make changes at the top until the crisis has passed.
Obviously English is the dominant language of America, but if most of the people who show up to help speak Spanish, deal with it.

[Konovalov]

Tchocky comes to the rescue with a little bit of context and common sense. :up:

[August]

Yeah until a team boss whose main qualification is that he speaks spanish gets a team killed because he lacks the experience of the non spanish speaker he replaced...

[SUBMAN1]

Tchocky comes to the rescue with a little bit of context and common sense. :up:Hardly. He forgot to factor in that they hired the stupid Illegal aliens because they can pay them half of what they can for an American firefighter. A little catch 22 going on here.

-S

[Tchocky]

Tchocky comes to the rescue with a little bit of context and common sense. :up:Hardly. He forgot to factor in that they hired the stupid Illegal aliens because they can pay them half of what they can for an American firefighter. A little catch 22 going on here.

Yeah, because there are no US citizens who's first language is Spanish.
Why are you reading "Hispanic" as "illegal"?

[SUBMAN1]

Tchocky comes to the rescue with a little bit of context and common sense. :up:Hardly. He forgot to factor in that they hired the stupid Illegal aliens because they can pay them half of what they can for an American firefighter. A little catch 22 going on here.
Yeah, because there are no US citizens who's first language is Spanish.
Why are you reading "Hispanic" as "illegal"?Because we do not allow immigration from Mexico at all - thats your first clue. Your second clue is that they can't speak English. Do I need to spell it out for you?

-S

[TteFAboB]

This is from summer 2006 :-?

Any date after 2003 is irrelevant to the fact that since that year fire crew bosses who can't speak spanish can lose jobs. In 2006, 2008 or 2020.

In the middle of a forest fire emergency.
In which firefighters were desperately needed.
To save lives and property.

Which means how important it is to have a capable force. By relying on a single bilingual boss, an emergency inside the emergency will break communications and return you to ground zero.

Most of the workforce were Hispanic, and some of the team bosses couldn't communicate with them. In a standard situation English should be a requirement, or at least a hiring preference.
But this was an emergency.

The standard situation of a firefighter is an emergency situation. Your distinction does not exist. That's why firefighters exist, what they combat. A firefighter does not answer a small fire in a small garbage bin that will be put out with a glass of water, that is not an emergency. A firefighter answers the garbage bin fire that was never put out and thus spreaded to the entire house and the surrounding forest, that's an emergency.

Firefighters' lives would be put at even more risk if they couldn't communicate. The two options are 1) The bosses have to speak English and Spanish, and 2) the employees have to speak English.

The article states that squad bosses do not have to speak Spanish. Does that mean that the lives of the squads were or are being put at risk, since an English squad won't be able to directly communicate with a Spanish squad? The third option is to give a course or request that bosses learn Spanish. The fourth option is to attach a junion bilingual officer to the crew boss.

When 85% of your workforce in an emergency situation are Spanish speakers, don't get rid of them all. Make changes at the top until the crisis has passed.
Obviously English is the dominant language of America, but if most of the people who show up to help speak Spanish, deal with it.

Lay off the experienced chiefs to promoted less experienced officers? Exactly the absurdly effective course of action one should take in an emergency. However, this emergencial scenario is false as far as the rule is concerned: the article says that the law was created in 2003, and only "now", that is, in 2006, bosses were being laid out. Three years is quite a long time to wait before taking action in an emergency. Why not lay them off immediately after the law was passed in 2003? Or 2004? Or 2005? If the decision to lay off the bosses was emergencial it would've taken less than three years for it to be done. The excuse is that the ranks started being ever more filled by non-english speaking Hispanics. Since Oregon Forest Dep. knew and followed the trend, this was no emergency, but a deliberate and controlled mismanagement of an executive "wildfire".

What happened here is that instead of teaching or requesting that the bosses learn Spanish, Oregon passed a law to be able to demote the bosses once the reliance Hispanic contractors became overwhelming. It was the easiest course of action, not the best.