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Why is it every time they say they got life when in fact the sentence is not life, for example todays news.
Newlove killers jailed for life
Three teenagers have been jailed for life for murdering father-of-three Garry Newlove, who was kicked to death outside his Warrington home.
Mr Newlove, 47, was attacked when he confronted a gang of vandals in August 2007. He died two days later.
Adam Swellings, 19, Stephen Sorton, 17, and Jordan Cunliffe, 16, were convicted at Chester Crown Court last month.
Swellings, of Meredith Street, Crewe, was sentenced by the court to serve a minimum 17 years in jail. Sorton, of Honister Street, Warrington, was ordered to serve a minimum 15 years and Cunliffe, formerly of Rowland Close, Warrington, must stay in jail for at least 12 years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7238496.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7238496.stm)
And are they going to serve there sentences in full? Not in this liberal wishy washy country that's for sure, law and order is so weak it's a joke.
Very few countries have criminal legislation providing for minors to be jailed for life without possibility of parole, and even fewer have youths actually serving such sentences. The UK has banned such sentences since 1996. So that is your answer as to why "every time they say they got life when in fact the sentence is not life."
In this particular case, when the perps committed their crime they were a) teenagers and b) drunk. Did they do an awful and unacceptable thing? Obviously, and any idiot from both sides of the political spectrum can see that. Do they deserve to be thrown into a hole for the rest of their lives? That's your call, but I say not necessarily. I don't accept that a pack of drunk teenagers have the mental faculties and capacities to rationalize the cold-blooded and heartless decision to purposely kick an innocent man to death. If they grow up by the end of their sentences and can function in society normally, go for it, otherwise they should stay in until they can. That's what the minimum time to serve is about, STEED. It's not a magical date where they get let out. If they have reformed by then they should be elligible for parole, and if not then tough for them.
I think life in Finland is 12 or 14 years. :nope:
Very few countries have criminal legislation providing for minors to be jailed for life without possibility of parole, and even fewer have youths actually serving such sentences. The UK has banned such sentences since 1996. So that is your answer as to why "every time they say they got life when in fact the sentence is not life."
This is also the case of cold blooded adult killers in fact they get even less ranging from seven to ten years in most cases. Of course there are the odd exemptions, my main beef is the news and they way they say it. Mr X has been given a life sentence then they go on to let say ten years, why?
What is the point of saying life when there is no life sentence any more in the UK, I just wish news readers drop the word life once and for all.
Prison is not for punishment or revenge.
Prison is a punishment, but it is not for punishment.
i.e. It is not about giving people what they "deserve".
It is primarily to keep the public safe and secondary to reform the purpotrators,
allow them to enter society again and to act as a deterrent to others.
These guys are going to miss out on the best years of their life and are guaranteed not
to see freedom until their 30s. If they are deemed not to be safe, they may well not
see freedom until they are in their mid 40s.
Life is short and I would rather lose my right arm than serve the sentences they have
been given. That is not to say I have the slightest sympathies with the scum.
Captain Nemo
02-12-08, 09:14 AM
[quote=fatty]What is the point of saying life when there is no life sentence any more in the UK, I just wish news readers drop the word life once and for all.
I fully agree Steed, that today's "life" sentence sends out the wrong message when in fact it can be as little as 12 years. In my view life should mean a minimum of 30 years if not the rest of the convicted person's natural life. However, to say that there is no life sentence meaning life in the UK today, I'm not sure thats right. If for example, someone is convicted of murdering a policeman or policewoman I think you can be sure they will serve much longer than if they murdered Mr or Mrs Average on the street. For example, Harry Roberts shot dead three policemen in 1966 and is still serving his sentence despite the judge saying he should serve a minimum of 30 years.
A recent example of a non-police related murder where the life sentence means life is Mark Hobson, whose sadistic murder of his girlfriend, her sister and an elderly couple, led to a whole-life tariff despite his guilty plea.
Nemo
Steel_Tomb
02-12-08, 01:45 PM
Life imprisonment doesn't mean life now, so seeing that life imprisonment was introduced to replace capital punishment seems a bit ridiculous! Bring back the death penalty, would be a bigger deterrence than free gym/tv and a place to stay for the rest of your life. Hey if we killed off a few of the worthless pieces of "humanity" in prison there might actually be space for the rapists and other criminals who are now getting released or let off because the labour government is running out of places to put them!
Captain Nemo
02-22-08, 09:33 AM
[quote=STEEDWhat is the point of saying life when there is no life sentence any more in the UK, I just wish news readers drop the word life once and for all.[/quote]
Sorry to resurrect an oldish thread but I thought Steed might be interested in this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/7258115.stm another life sentence meaning life in the UK. This is not to say of course, that generally Steed is correct that 'Life' generally doesn't mean life in the UK.
Nemo
[quote=STEEDWhat is the point of saying life when there is no life sentence any more in the UK, I just wish news readers drop the word life once and for all.
Sorry to resurrect an oldish thread but I thought Steed might be interested in this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/7258115.stm another life sentence meaning life in the UK. This is not to say of course, that generally Steed is correct that 'Life' generally doesn't mean life in the UK.
Nemo[/quote]
Well how many serial killers do we have? Peanuts is the answer, serial killers are the exception for now.
Any way this scumbag is going to live like a king now with all his goodies. I wonder if he will have a prison cell converted into his very own private gym like Huntley?
Konovalov
02-22-08, 09:47 AM
Are you for the death penalty here in the UK Steed?
Are you for the death penalty here in the UK Steed?
YES.
But not for Killers that to easy hanging them for taking someone's life.
Hang the yobs I say, more than three offensives let's get rid of them.
No point banging on as we all know this country is run by a bunch of Nanny Liberals that shove there Political Correctness claptrap on us all.
Captain Nemo
02-22-08, 10:06 AM
Hang the yobs I say, more than three offensives let's get rid of them.
No, I'm more for putting them all on a desolate island somewhere and letting them kill each other.
Nemo
Tchocky
02-22-08, 10:52 AM
No, I'm more for putting them all on a desolate island somewhere and letting them kill each other.
Nemo
They'll only gain revenge by producing terrible daytime television and beating England at sports. I say hang 'em.
No, I'm more for putting them all on a desolate island somewhere and letting them kill each other.
Nemo
They'll only gain revenge by producing terrible daytime television and beating England at sports. I say hang 'em.
WHAT!!! :o :o :o
Now I need to check in to a clinic after hearing that.
Jibber jibber jibber. :88)
Hang the yobs I say, more than three offensives let's get rid of them.
No, I'm more for putting them all on a desolate island somewhere and letting them kill each other.
Nemo
And here's the first one for you.
The sickening moment policeman is headbutted by teenager in 'happy slapping' video (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=517462&in_page_id=1770)
Captain Nemo
02-22-08, 11:27 AM
Yep, send him to the island.
Nemo
Prison is not for punishment or revenge.
Prison is a punishment, but it is not for punishment.
i.e. It is not about giving people what they "deserve".
It is primarily to keep the public safe and secondary to reform the purpotrators,
allow them to enter society again and to act as a deterrent to others.
These guys are going to miss out on the best years of their life and are guaranteed not
to see freedom until their 30s. If they are deemed not to be safe, they may well not
see freedom until they are in their mid 40s.
Life is short and I would rather lose my right arm than serve the sentences they have been given. That is not to say I have the slightest sympathies with the scum.
I have a couple issues with this.
First IS vs FOR sounds like nonsense to me. If you're correct then why should there be any disparity in sentencing? Is the public any more or less safe because murderers get longer sentences than, say thieves or rapists?
Secondly by whose definition is the "best years" of ones life confined to ones twenties? Certainly not mine. In fact my 30's and 40's have, so far, been far more enjoyable and rewarding than my 20's were.
Tango589
02-22-08, 03:45 PM
Justice has been served on Steven Wright, who carried out abominations in Ipswich, the details of which have no place in this forum. He has been sentenced to spend the rest of his (un)natural life in prison. This is a rare case of life meaning life and not a minimum of 15-odd years. IMO life should mean a MINIMUM of 30 years.
Jimbuna
02-22-08, 04:44 PM
Anyone found guilty of murder in the UK has to be sentenced to life imprisonment....the judge has absolutely no latitude....he is mandated to give a life sentence.
The priblem arrives straight after the announcement of the mandatory sentence, they go on to give a recommendation thet x number of years be served http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img134/9742/angry8se2.gif
I have a couple issues with this.
First IS vs FOR sounds like nonsense to me. If you're correct then why should there be any disparity in sentencing? Is the public any more or less safe because murderers get longer sentences than, say thieves or rapists?
Secondly by whose definition is the "best years" of ones life confined to ones twenties? Certainly not mine. In fact my 30's and 40's have, so far, been far more enjoyable and rewarding than my 20's were.
There are many IS vs FOR circumstances in the world. Grass is green, but grass is not
for being green.
Murders get longer sentences than thieves for three main reasons.
Firstly, if thieves got the same sentence as murderers then thieves would have no
deterrent not to murder as they steal. This reason causes controversy with feminist
groups who wish for rape to carry the same sentence as murder.
Secondly murders generally put the public at more risk of more harm than thieves do.
(unless of course the thief is also a murderer!).
And lastly murders tend to take longer to enter back in society because of the risk
they pose and the difficulties in correcting their behaviour.
Of course, the "best years" of ones life are totally subjective.
NEON DEON
02-22-08, 05:21 PM
Maybe England should bring back the death penalty.
That way when you give someone a death sentance they get life in prison.:D
Eh, it just seems to me that 12 years is a comparative slap on the wrist that doesn't provide much, if any, of a deterrent.
Eh, it just seems to me that 12 years is a comparative slap on the wrist that doesn't provide much, if any, of a deterrent.
How much would I have to pay you to get you to agree to go to prision for 12 years
starting tommorow?
Would you agree to go for £500,000? More perhaps?
Eh, it just seems to me that 12 years is a comparative slap on the wrist that doesn't provide much, if any, of a deterrent.
How much would I have to pay you to get you to agree to go to prision for 12 years
starting tommorow?
Would you agree to go for £500,000? More perhaps?
For that amount I wouldn't agree to go to jail for 12 minutes let alone 12 years but then again i'm not stupid enough to get drunk and kick an innocent man to death for fun.
12 years for the crime of murder is no deterrent at all.
AkbarGulag
02-23-08, 01:13 AM
No, I'm more for putting them all on a desolate island somewhere and letting them kill each other.
Nemo
They'll only gain revenge by producing terrible daytime television and beating England at sports. I say hang 'em.
The Australians?
Public outcry over lenient sentences in Liberal/Socilaist New Zealand has led to an increase from 12-17 years. The worst get 17 years minimum (25 year maximums are now possible also), then reviews after full sentence. This is naturally, only for the most heinous of crimes, but it proves that public pressure can have an effect, especially true near elections. Now we are trying to stop rapists and armed robbers from recieving bail. The down side of longer sentences so far has been larger numbers of 'Home Detentions', though to be honest, the home detentions scheme works well, except for when we give it to major asian drug dealers that, surprise surprise, dissapear just before the court case.
As for the death penalty? 98% of convictions are generally the right ones, that leaves 2% of all inmates innocent. Best to lock them up for life, than have the knowledge of that 2% you sent to hang. Dead exonerated men/women are still dead.
Good news again for the Jail Birds. :yep:
British Justice you can't beat it. :D
Thousands of criminals to be freed as jails are declared 'absolutely full' for first time in history (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=517655&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)
Place your bets folks for how many will commit crimes in the first hour? My money is on a minimum of ten.
Is this the third or fourth time they done this? What happen to Labour's promise tough on crime tough on the causes of crime?
Jimbuna
02-23-08, 12:38 PM
Good news again for the Jail Birds. :yep:
British Justice you can't beat it. :D
Thousands of criminals to be freed as jails are declared 'absolutely full' for first time in history (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=517655&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)
Place your bets folks for how many will commit crimes in the first hour? My money is on a minimum of ten.
Is this the third or fourth time they done this? What happen to Labour's promise tough on crime tough on the causes of crime?
Ever the optimist http://www.spreadtheiris.com/images/smilies/smacka.gif
But probably correct nonetheless http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7178/uowprofuriousoi0eq1.gif
Part of the reason for full prisons is that judges have to give longer sentences for more
comfortable prisons. Perhaps the solution is less comfortable prisons!
Part of the reason for full prisons is that judges have to give longer sentences for more
comfortable prisons. Perhaps the solution is less comfortable prisons!
Hey, hey. :up:
Give Letum the job for Minister for Prisons.
Tchocky
02-23-08, 03:58 PM
New Labour - Tough on slogans, tough on the causes of slogans.
http://www.westbethent.com/artists/BILLBAILEY/Image1_bbaileyheadshot.jpeg
New Labour - Tough on slogans, tough on the causes of slogans.
http://www.westbethent.com/artists/BILLBAILEY/Image1_bbaileyheadshot.jpeg
Tchocky becomes the Minister of Sarcastic Wit. :D
Get that man a drink of his favorite tipple.
Tchocky
02-23-08, 04:09 PM
Tha's a Bill Bailey joke, hence the pic.
I'll still take the job and the booze though :arrgh!:
Jimbuna
02-23-08, 07:17 PM
Tha's a Bill Bailey joke, hence the pic.
I'll still take the job and the booze though :arrgh!:
Way over STEEDS level of understanding one suspects http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/gdnight.gif
Tchocky
02-23-08, 08:21 PM
Cheeky sod!
kiwi_2005
02-23-08, 08:35 PM
Im so glad these threads come up, makes you realise your own country is not the only one run by retards. Sentencing here is the same maybe add a few more depends on how bad it is. A serial rapist got 25yrs, a serial murderer got 17yrs, but the common murder when say a person goes and shoots someone over an argument or kills a bank attendant during a robbery will get 10-14yrs.
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