Stick with my VIIC or get a IXC? [Archive]

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Grayson02sept1980

01-31-08, 06:18 PM

Hi!

Sorry if this has been discussed before and I just am too lazy.... ;)

ok... I have now reached the time the IxC is availiable and Alberich, too.

So far I have used a VIIC I got as I thought I stick with the smaller boat till I can get a XXI or one of the later IXs ...

But just right now I am so fed up with it!

I mean I raid a convoy and as the pesky escort seems to love me so much I give them back something... a small part of my boat... ;)

but when I am done with the escort and fired the last torpedo it always hurts me to let the rest of the convoy get away as I simply have no Eel left and attacking surfaced with the deckgun also is not possible as most of the ships are armed well enough to give me a deadly blow; with a IX I could reload surfaced out of sight of the convoy... hold contact with the convoy and make a second attack run.

On the other hand the IX is more easy spotted dived than the VII ... but I am playing the first time GWX campaign... so I have not a real clue... speed is also an issue... the VII is slightly faster.
The higher range is not what I need... in fact I hate to be ordered somewhere around south africa and ship there just to find nothing...

I have 15k points and getting the new boat fully "updated" is not a problem... on the other hand I want to save up for the XXI but that will take some years till I can get that.. Can I make the 30k?

What is your oppinion? Get the IXc or stick with the VIIc (I started with a VIIb and bought the C as I thought to get Alberich and have a faster "sneaky boat... just that right now it gets anoying...)

Thanks for your imput.

CapZap1970

01-31-08, 06:52 PM

want my opinion?
Get yourself an IXC beast as soon as you can, you won't regret it... :rock:
CapZap

KeptinCranky

01-31-08, 06:58 PM

Abd_von_Mumit

01-31-08, 07:00 PM

Take the IX, if it's only possible. It's an award to get such a boat as one of the first commanders. :D

I say "take it" not because it's better than VII - I just think you should have a try so that you learn which one you like more. It's a matter of taste in my opinion, and maybe of style of play. There are a few around who love type II boats and use them even late in the war, just because they're their favourite.

I remember an EU slogan: "Celebrating diversity". :rotfl:

JG10r_Bull

01-31-08, 08:36 PM

Yep IX all the Way:up: u sound like u attack like me first run i get in the middle of the coni and shoot bow & stern and kill her center lanes then head out reload and hit her side's if i don't have prob's with DD's i get around 20 + 30,000 ton's in two attack's but i never go back 4 a 3rd attack as buy now the DD's r very pissed and r DC every were :ping:

CapZap1970

01-31-08, 09:36 PM

yeh, I agree with CapZap, I'm not a IX fan myself but from what you describe of your playing style you definitely want a IXc, because all that fuel intended to get you to south africa can also be very useful in making it go FASTER!! :D you can go about as far in a IXC on 12 or 13 knots as in a VIIc on 9 knots :arrgh!:

and more eels and more flak earlier...
I suppose this is what you mean...
http://www.beyond-the-shadows.org/capzap1970/screenshots/loadout.jpg

:rotfl: :rotfl:
Just kidding, that's called cheating...:rotfl:
CapZap

Koondawg

02-01-08, 02:06 AM

I suppose this is what you mean...
http://www.beyond-the-shadows.org/capzap1970/screenshots/loadout.jpg
Hummm....all that AND a bag-o-chips in '39? :hmm:
I get into a IX the first chance I get and never go back....

vodkavera

02-01-08, 03:54 AM

Sorry but I´ll hijack this thread for a question......:arrgh!:

I have my trusty, rusty IXB.....is it worth to upgrade to IXC when the
time comes?? :hmm:
Does the "C" get more upgrades?

/VV

melnibonian

02-01-08, 04:48 AM

IXC all the way. It's by far the best platform for sinking ships due to the large range and number of torpedoes. To enjoy it though you have to enjoy long patrols in distant waters. Later in the war trying to attack an escorted convoy is a virtual death sentence but there are ways you can use your size and range to your advantage.

As far as IXB is concerned: Yes change it for a C Type as soon as possible as that way you will have all the latest upgrades.

vodkavera

02-01-08, 04:55 AM

Grayson02sept1980

02-01-08, 08:43 AM

thanks folks!

well IXc here I come! :smug:

danurve

02-01-08, 09:18 AM

But just right now I am so fed up with it!

I mean I raid a convoy and as the pesky escort seems to love me so much I give them back something... a small part of my boat... ;)

Grayson02sept1980; If that is the case You are doing something wrong. Do you honestly think a bigger boat with more torpedoes is going to fix that for you?:rotfl:
Geeezze. I see the IX fans jumping on this bandwagon probably not reading your first post through. I have read some jazz here before, :roll: :88) :roll: .

Penelope_Grey

02-01-08, 11:03 AM

The type IX vs type VII debate is as old as the hills! Both have strengths the other does not have.

example

VII:
harder to detect, smaller profile
faster dives in an emergency situation saving the boat from damage.
deeper diving
better underwater range
harder to hit when attacked by aircraft.

IX:
Much more fuel, more possibilities
larger payload of torpedoes
more powerful deck gun
an extra aft tube
top speed surfaced.

the type IX is intended to be a heavy hitter, its a plodder basically, and it can enable you to potentially sink more targets.

The type VII is more of a fast attack, get in fire it off, get out. Much more suited to convoy operations than the type IX is.

I personally prefer the type IX's for the extra fuel and weapons. If you use them right they can be devastating, but for gods sake don't jump into your type IXC and expect VIIC performances because you won't get it.

Type VII's are better in terms of submerged performance, a good balance of firepower and stealth, type IX's tend to lend themselves more to firepower than stealth in the grander scheme of things. But that does not mean they are not sneaky, I've attacked convoys in my IXC on the surface, and got away on the surface, they can be stealthy in the right circumstances. :up:

They can't dive as deep or stay down as long as a VII can but its up to you, if you want a boat that can dive like a monster, and better at evading escorts the VII is your boat, if you want raw firepower and a "go anywhere" feel, the IX is for you.

nikbear

02-01-08, 12:22 PM

I tried a convoy attack in my TypeIXD2:nope: not recommended,it was going swimingly till I had to crash dive to evade the last remaining escort(It was 1944 by the way)the old clunking bus just took so long to get deep and when it got there it handled like a drunk hippo in a bath of treacle,I was easy to locate and the end was never in doubt:nope: I'm still gutted:oops: :damn: I broke my golden rule with typeIX's in the late war period,Leave convoys alone!:oops: ;)

ReallyDedPoet

02-01-08, 12:46 PM

Go with the Ocean Workhorse, the VIIC :yep:

RDP

STEED

02-01-08, 01:28 PM

Makes me laugh this question, try them all. ;)

Screw advice get stuck in to all of them.

Jimbuna

02-01-08, 02:47 PM

Very much a IX Kaleun myself..........Personally speaking, I hang on to the B type until the D2 becomes available http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

NealT

02-01-08, 08:25 PM

Take the one you can survive in.....

The Butcher

02-01-08, 08:47 PM

Every time Donitz got a tonnage allocation he fought for more VIIB and Cs. OKM would always stick him with IX or worse the type I. In the game I go with STEED, run a career with each type, whatever you feel like that day use that career. Works good with mods too.

Venatore

02-01-08, 09:31 PM

Go with the Ocean Workhorse, the VIIC :yep:RDP

In the end its your choice, but for me when I play a military game I research the hell out of the asset that I will be using.

For example:

In IL2-46 I will always fly the ME109 over a Spitfire, many will think this is suicide, I feel more comfortable in the ME109, I'll never put myself into a tight turning fight with a spitfire, I'll try to keep him in a high altitude dogfight, if I can get on his arse it's game over.

Dogfight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBm86lrCq2c&feature=related

Dogfight [no commentary]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cx6V0QAVEU&feature=related

Quotes from pilots:

Alan Deere, who served with No. 54 Squadron during the Battle of Britain, summed it up:
Undoubtedly, the 109 in the hands of a good pilot was a tough nut to crack. Initially, it was faster in the dive, but slower in the climb; the Spitfire could out-turn, but it was at a disadvantage in manoeuvres that entailed negative G forces. Overall there was little to choose between the two fighters. Hugh Dundas thought the antagonists to be evenly matched:
There is no doubt, that Goering and his commanders overrated the effectiveness of their fighters in relation to our own. In fact the Messerschmitt 109 and the Spitfire were extraordinarily evenly matched. Their duel for supremacy lasted throughout the war, as each plane was constantly improved and given increased power and performance. At times the Germans, by rushing out a new version before our own next improvement was ready, would get one jump ahead. At other times the advantage would be to the RAF. But on balance the Spitfire was, I believe, slightly the better aircraft. And so it was in 1940. In particular, such advantages as it enjoyed over the ME 109 at the time were enhanced by the circumstances of the battle.
As for the VIIC this is also my asset of choice, for one reason only...fast dive times, as soon as my watch crew inform me of Air or surface contact my action-on is to dive, go silent and prepare the crew for a possible dogfight [depending on what it is].

Once again its up to you my friend, good luck with what ever you choose.

Gezur(Arbeit)

02-02-08, 06:13 AM

I Love my IXB, its range is huge and you got many torps, and if u cant escape with a IX u cant escape with a VII, attacking in shallow waters is dangerous.....in deep sea u dive to 220 meters and hit silent running...sure, if they are good, they will follow u some time, but they will lose you some time. And 220 Metres is deep, DCs need long to fall that deep.

Jimbuna

02-02-08, 09:00 AM

Grayson02sept1980

02-02-08, 09:19 AM

had my first Convoy attack in september 41 ...

I found the convoy around the section between Ireland England and France... where the water is not so deep... so sneaking away was never the task.

though I am one "rauf und ran"( best way I translate it is: "up and hit em") type of kaleun I always try to sneak into the convoy and pick the big targets first...but
I was discovered surfaced!... what dumb mistake I made! It was one of those times :damn: ... could have avoided that

Well I sunk the little Corvette that saw me.. but it called for helped and all I managed before a frigate homed in on my was a lous double shot on a heavy freighter I could not sink atm. Sunk the frigate and just when the next torp was loaded the next corvette was there... sunk it.... then I shot another heavy freighter (this time perfect position... perfect aiming) hit the fuel bunker and blew it up with one shot.
then... you know what comes... another frigate etc etc etc.

I sunk 6 warships with my first attack run and two heavy freighters (the first onw I couldn't sink at once sunk by taking up too much water - lucky me :88) )

then I had no torps left and drew back.... saved it and went to bed :smug:

So far all your comments helped a lot! And I have experieced just what you wrote.

The IX though with more firepower (atm two torps more and the chance to kill the rest of the helpless convoy) is on heavy boat and moves like paralyzed Elefant when dived...surfaced it is as fast and agile as my old VII ... et I have to say both are good... both have pros and cons.

My tactic almos always is to try to sneak in and if that fails kill the guards (I have found three working strategies to hit them 98% sure depending how the approch my position - of course the AI gets better at evading my torpedos... seems they "know" when I fire at them or when I aim at them ...)

The question is still not clear.

At the first attack run I sunke 28kt including the 6 warships and could have been if not for a bug 40kt as I hit a big whale-fabric-ship (dunno the english expression) and hit it at his engine... slowed down and just as I want to finish it of it sunk... sunk sign on the map...big cheers from my crew... but not listed and no tonnage accounted... darn.

till this point I could have made it with my VII too I guess but I am not sure (two Eels less! :shifty: )

Still have no clue.

Tje IX completle upgraded costs 10k renown ... the alberich upgrade for my VII just 1k ...

Guess when I want to keep raiding escorted convoys I better stick with my VII... or get my ar$e blown up in the IX by depth charges. (I was also extremly "lucky" this time that the 4 guards of the convoy called in two more frigates :nope: )

... bigger not always is better... :rotfl:

I need to think this over again... both boats have their advantages ... both have weaknesses

Both are good... what I like more I dunno yet.

Gezur(Arbeit)

02-02-08, 09:46 AM

The IXC has 22 Torps......

And you killed the escorts oO How did you do that? ^^

Grayson02sept1980

02-02-08, 10:24 AM

The IXC has 22 Torps......

And you killed the escorts oO How did you do that? ^^
The IXc at this moment had 14 Torps! (I can't get the reserves while dived! ;) )

and shooting a dumb corvette heading for you without zigzagging is like taking... well I don't like candy :arrgh!:

and the Frigates even when zig zagging... a T1 fired with speed set to high at 400m is hitting

and even if not... let them run over you making a hard turn away left or right at Full speed when the escort is at ~400m and in 75% of all cases you won't be damaged by charges.

then the escort goes into a slow turn showing the full broadside with only making a speed of ~12-15 ... easy target

OK Ok OK I use the help of my trustworthy 1WO but in 98% of all cases I need just one torp per enemy ...

Grayson02sept1980

02-03-08, 09:09 AM

I tested around a bit yesterday and for my tactics the IX is overall when it comes to tonnage better.

Though I am able to sneak in with the VII more easy the area I usually go "fishing" is not very deep so escaping is not possible... I have to fight.

The best result I got when I attacked a big convoy with the IX and shooting three of the four escorting warships.. took 3 torps.

I then made an attack on the convoy itself shooting all my torps before the last DD even could reach me and I then went off... he followed me and caught one of my stern torps... then I reloaded and made a second attack.

Sunk 75kt with being hit only at the tower and that was easy to repair.

The IX is different for sure... whet the VII was fast and sneaky dived the IX is quick and stuborn surfaced... the additional torps really pay off once I have killed all escorting ships.

I will stick with the big IX and change my tactics according to the slow and big boat.

Again: Thanks for your advices.

After all it is a matter of taste and how to attack a convoy.

Gute Fahrt und reiche Beute ihr Himmelhunde! :arrgh!:

NealT

02-03-08, 10:01 AM

Good luck and good hunting...

You will find your boat 'interesting' to say the least...

magicsub

02-04-08, 01:26 AM

i used to prefer viic then ix, although i firmly believe in ix, the best u boat in multiplayer is iid!! believe it or not!

if u use a iid you get all acoustic torpedos after you use your normal ones!

a

JG10r_Bull

02-04-08, 02:36 AM

For example:

In IL2-46 I will always fly the ME109 over a Spitfire, many will think this is suicide, I feel more comfortable in the ME109, I'll never put myself into a tight turning fight with a spitfire, I'll try to keep him in a high altitude dogfight, if I can get on his arse it's game over.

Dogfight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBm86lrCq2c&feature=related

Dogfight [no commentary]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cx6V0QAVEU&feature=related

Quotes from pilots:

Alan Deere, who served with No. 54 Squadron during the Battle of Britain, summed it up: Undoubtedly, the 109 in the hands of a good pilot was a tough nut to crack. Initially, it was faster in the dive, but slower in the climb; the Spitfire could out-turn, but it was at a disadvantage in manoeuvres that entailed negative G forces. Overall there was little to choose between the two fighters. Hugh Dundas thought the antagonists to be evenly matched: There is no doubt, that Goering and his commanders overrated the effectiveness of their fighters in relation to our own. In fact the Messerschmitt 109 and the Spitfire were extraordinarily evenly matched. Their duel for supremacy lasted throughout the war, as each plane was constantly improved and given increased power and performance. At times the Germans, by rushing out a new version before our own next improvement was ready, would get one jump ahead. At other times the advantage would be to the RAF. But on balance the Spitfire was, I believe, slightly the better aircraft. And so it was in 1940. In particular, such advantages as it enjoyed over the ME 109 at the time were enhanced by the circumstances of the battle. As for the VIIC this is also my asset of choice, for one reason only...fast dive times, as soon as my watch crew inform me of Air or surface contact my action-on is to dive, go silent and prepare the crew for a possible dogfight [depending on what it is].

Once again its up to you my friend, good luck with what ever you choose

well if your going to talk IL2 love that game little vid of me flyin my 109
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdplyYIF-9o

Grayson02sept1980

02-04-08, 05:08 PM

still not happy with the IX... though the score is high the feeling is not there.... :cry:

The IX I tested now on two big convoys and sunk 70kt each... I could never get that high scores with a VII ... still...
:damn:

DOH!

Grayson02sept1980

02-05-08, 09:03 AM

went back to load my old savegame and sticked with my VIIc and I am far more pleased with it.

Moves way faster dived and is harder to detect. didn't take on blow so far... though I have some funny moments saved as screenshots with the IX I will post

Gezur(Arbeit)

02-05-08, 09:19 AM

Its feburary 1943, nearly 1000.000 Tons sunk (manual), 26th patrol....everytime i entered a convoi i wasnt detected....its just the way how you do it, i dont waste my torpedos for Escorts, I pick 3 Ships and fire my 6 eels, then I dive as deep as possible and move away with silent running.....and of course, the XI can absorb more damage....

Grayson02sept1980

02-05-08, 10:33 AM

well the IX is a good boat... but it is so slow under water... :shifty:

of course the way you describe it I am doing it now, too.

Till now I did as follows: killed the guards and raided the convoy of the biggest ships and then pulled back to reload. (often they shouted for help and I killed those, too)

overall I only need one torp per escort ship... ;)

With the VII I sneak in.. shoot all my tubes and play cat an mouse with the guards hiding under or next to ships... or simply sneak away to reload dived... making then a second run on the convoy reloaded

Both worked... both gave me good scores in fact the IX is more effective once one knows the powers and weaknesses (ever tried to dive or raise fast in a IX ... or make a hard turn while being under depth charge fire... forget it. ... the VII running silent 2kt raises 4-6m per minute... the IX only 1 !!! diving the same ...)

The IX is just different.

But I like the "sneak in, hit hard and get lost" with my VII method best right now :yep:

I wrote a topic showing how powerfull the 10.5 of the IX is (took down a Black swan with it) and no boubt the IX is a fine ship... er.... boat...
but again: the VII gives me more fun playing.

:arrgh!: