Getting a old Navy ships seaworthy

[elite_hunter_sh3]

what does it take to get lets say a old 60s-70s era destroyer or cruiser seaworthy (from those "ghost fleet") shipyards.. :hmm:, in terms of manpower , money , time etc..

[AVGWarhawk]

Getting the ship out of mothballs, sandblasted, painted and suitable for public display would cost more than $5 million, he said, but he thinks ship-repair specialists and veterans would donate time and resources.

From this article:

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-08-05-0287.html

Note, this is not to get it really seaworthy so multiply the $5 million x2....

[elite_hunter_sh3]

also talking about engine maintanence, plumbing, electrical systems, hydraulic systems etc.. pretty much to turn it back into a destroyer without the weapons.. :hmm:

[Urspankd]

I would say that nearly all the stuff on that kind of a boat could be gutted and replaced with newer, and more advanced stuff for a cheaper price. I mean why would you want to get an old destroyer (unless it was for nostalgic reasons)and least not have something better about it.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

roam around in international waters being a pirate?? :arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!: , i think it would be cool , having 20- 30 of your best friends commanding a ship, scaring pple on cruise ships when we steam near them and warn them on a loudspeaker :arrgh!::arrgh!:

[AVGWarhawk]

roam around in international waters being a pirate?? :arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!: , i think it would be cool , having 20- 30 of your best friends commanding a ship, scaring pple on cruise ships when we steam near them and warn them on a loudspeaker :arrgh!::arrgh!:


They do that now and with guns....no need for me to do it as well.

[Etienne]

roam around in international waters being a pirate?? :arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!: , i think it would be cool , having 20- 30 of your best friends commanding a ship, scaring pple on cruise ships when we steam near them and warn them on a loudspeaker :arrgh!::arrgh!:

It'll be especially funny when the navy shows up. Trust me, those cruise ships folks take their security seriously and have little sense of humour. (Well, in that kind of situation anyway)

If you what the bring the ship up to being operated by civillians, the cost would probably be comparable to the cost of getting a new ship.

I'd say about 20 millions, if you're not bringing the ship up to SOLAS standards. Remember, everytime you add "Marine" at the end of an order, the price doubles.

[seafarer]

I found this article (http://hnsa.org/handbook/morss1.htm) interesting.

The USS New Jersey cost $7.3 million in her 2000 restoration prior to being berthed at Camden as a museum. At the time, the US Navy estimated that the cost of returning her to active duty was well over $100 million (according to the Washington Post), although the cost of keeping her in Naval Registry Class B Mobilization status was less then $150,000.00 per year (the same state that the USS Wisconsin is kept in - all interior spaces sealed up and the internal atmosphere kept dry and clean).

I know in 2003 Taiwan bought 4 mothballed US Kidd-class destroyers for USD $785 Million USD (they'd been mothballed for a couple of decades by then). The $785 million included the cost of de-mothballing/restoring them to active duty status, upgrades, plus spares and such, so I don't know what the actual cost of just getting them seaworthy again was.

P.S. anyone know how much it cost to restore the SS Jeremiah O'Brien or SS John W. Brown to seagoing condition?

[CCIP]

If you want to do that, the best idea would be to just build a mockup - probably a lot cheaper to convert an old merchant hull to resemble a cruiser from the outside, and you don't have to go into the expenses of getting all the systems working. Let's face it, do you really need the heavy weapons, detection equipment and such on that thing? Sure it'd be cool, but being pragmatic... the moment you try to use them, for whatever reason, you'll probably be sunk by the nearest navy unit that will hopelessly outclass you :p And if you want to be safe from pirates, some small arms would do.

[SteminDemon13]

what does it take to get lets say a old 60s-70s era destroyer or cruiser seaworthy (from those "ghost fleet") shipyards.. :hmm:, in terms of manpower , money , time etc..

Are you nonchalantly trying to recruit some members to run a ship you want to buy? What class or Tin Can or straw bottomed cruiser are you trying to get up and running?

Before you figure in any costs you would have to inspect the entire ship? How was she laid up? How were the boilers, turbines and auxiliary equipment layed up? Was cathodic protection used? Dehumidification?.....There are many variables. Say if the ship was a fletcher, or gearing class? The ship has four B&W M-Type boilers and four geared turbines. If the ship was a Knox, then she had 1200 PSI boilers, 2 of them to boot, or if it is a Leahy then 4 1200 pounders and 2 shafts. If it was a Garcia class DE, (later FF) than she had two Pressurized Furnace 1200 PSI boilers which are totaly different than any of the boilers mentioned above, also you should make sure Pharis E. Williams 1978 improved baffle design was implemented (it was to prevent undue tube breakage) which I believe all P-Type boilers recieved.

So if its gearing, lets see..... fire room:Messenger, Pumpman, Burnerman, Checkman, Blowerman (the FDB's are located on each side of the boiler in a little compartment with a hatch), BTOW. engine room:Messenger, MMOW, Throttleman Machinists Mate Lower Level, EPCP, evap watch (watches DFT also), TG watch and that should be the gist of it for that stick plant.

Garcia is easier, those plants were automated preety well. 3 wide range burners on the P-Types did all the work for you, no need to cut them in and out.

Tell us what ship, then I may volunteer

[Marcantilan]

The vast majority of those ships have asbestos for insulation of pipes.

Don´t count me in...

[SteminDemon13]

The vast majority of those ships have asbestos for insulation of pipes.

Don´t count me in...

I guess you have never been involved in asbestos removal then? Safety and PPE is key, anyone who would just run arround ripping out the stuff is looney. Maybe after we safely remove the asbestos, then can we count you in?

[swifty]

Also keep in mind you will have to shell out at least $100,000 in fuel every time you want to go out.

You might want to start out with something smaller. I know a guy who built a modified WWII PT boat. He used the same haul and modified the top for use as a pleasure yacht. The thing is a tank. He uses aluminum in set of wood like the original. During Hurricane Katrina he didn't take any precautions and just left it tied up a usual in the slip it ended up destroying a wooden post and the only damage it received was messing up the paint job. It's quite impressive because when the fiberglass yachts tried the post won by putting a 3 ft hole in them. Last I herd he was trying to sell it. It wouldn't cost much to convert it into a PT boat. Just a thought.

[Jimbuna]

It would be nice to sail off the African coast and give them pirates what for http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Ishmael]

what does it take to get lets say a old 60s-70s era destroyer or cruiser seaworthy (from those "ghost fleet") shipyards.. :hmm:, in terms of manpower , money , time etc..

Are you nonchalantly trying to recruit some members to run a ship you want to buy? What class or Tin Can or straw bottomed cruiser are you trying to get up and running?

Before you figure in any costs you would have to inspect the entire ship? How was she laid up? How were the boilers, turbines and auxiliary equipment layed up? Was cathodic protection used? Dehumidification?.....There are many variables. Say if the ship was a fletcher, or gearing class? The ship has four B&W M-Type boilers and four geared turbines. If the ship was a Knox, then she had 1200 PSI boilers, 2 of them to boot, or if it is a Leahy then 4 1200 pounders and 2 shafts. If it was a Garcia class DE, (later FF) than she had two Pressurized Furnace 1200 PSI boilers which are totaly different than any of the boilers mentioned above, also you should make sure Pharis E. Williams 1978 improved baffle design was implemented (it was to prevent undue tube breakage) which I believe all P-Type boilers recieved.

So if its gearing, lets see..... fire room:Messenger, Pumpman, Burnerman, Checkman, Blowerman (the FDB's are located on each side of the boiler in a little compartment with a hatch), BTOW. engine room:Messenger, MMOW, Throttleman Machinists Mate Lower Level, EPCP, evap watch (watches DFT also), TG watch and that should be the gist of it for that stick plant.

Garcia is easier, those plants were automated preety well. 3 wide range burners on the P-Types did all the work for you, no need to cut them in and out.

Tell us what ship, then I may volunteer

Why stop with a can or cruiser when USS Iowa is still available at the Boneyard in Suisun Bay off my home town of Benicia:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8431/ussiowadu0.jpg


The Vallejo Naval and Historical Museum is trying to raise funds to restore her for a museum on Mare Island where USS California(BB-44) was built, The only battleship built on the west coast. Last year I met a retired Chief Gunners Mate who was mount 51 captain aboard her from Pearl Harbor to V-J day. He was awarded two Bronze Stars, one for Surigao Straits and the other for Lingayen Gulf when his mount was hit by a kamikaze and he single-handedly evacuated the mount and flooded the mount magazine saving the ship.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

wonder how hard it is to row in with men in commando boats with fuel oil, fill er up and slip away under the cover of night :hmm::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

[swifty]

wonder how hard it is to row in with men in commando boats with fuel oil, fill er up and slip away under the cover of night :hmm::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

There is a how to movie out there. All we nee is:

WWII Submarine
Palyboy Playmate in a large cake
Guns
Tomy Lee JonesWe just have to be sure ther is no cook/Navy SEAL on board at the time.:damn:

[Jimbuna]

wonder how hard it is to row in with men in commando boats with fuel oil, fill er up and slip away under the cover of night :hmm::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

There is a how to movie out there. All we nee is:

WWII Submarine
Palyboy Playmate in a large cake
Guns
Tomy Lee JonesWe just have to be sure ther is no cook/Navy SEAL on board at the time.:damn:

Don't worry, he's harmless, just a chef :lol:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/238/250pxseagalundersiegeup8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ishmael]

wonder how hard it is to row in with men in commando boats with fuel oil, fill er up and slip away under the cover of night :hmm::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

There is a how to movie out there. All we nee is:

WWII Submarine
Palyboy Playmate in a large cake
Guns
Tomy Lee JonesWe just have to be sure ther is no cook/Navy SEAL on board at the time.:damn:

Actually I prefer this how-to movie: Assault on a queen. Why take over a battlewagon when you can stick-up a passenger liner full of affluent people?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060135/

[mrbeast]

wonder how hard it is to row in with men in commando boats with fuel oil, fill er up and slip away under the cover of night :hmm::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

Should be pretty easy as long as you've gat a commando boat the size of a fleet Auxiliary for all that fuel oil. :roll:

[seafarer]

Yeah, it's tough to carry over 2 million gallons of fuel oil in your pockets :)

[mrbeast]

Just out of curiosity, how much fuel oil would it take to get a large capital ship ready to leave port? :hmm:

I'm talking just to raise steam here even without going anywhere.

[SteminDemon13]

Just out of curiosity, how much fuel oil would it take to get a large capital ship ready to leave port? :hmm:

I'm talking just to raise steam here even without going anywhere.

Depends on the ship. Is it steam, GT, diesel? Ships have to conduct MLOC's prior to get underway. That includes aligning/ensuring proper alignment of the lube oil system, starting the lube oil system, testing the L/O alarms, placing the main engine on the jack, ensuring all hazards are removed from the space, rotating machinery by hand, and more preperations than you can shake a stick at. Each ship's requirements differ. If it is a steam powered ship, it depends on the boilers and the required time to raise steam. This also depends on your boiler layup as well. If it is say under steam blanket then the prescribed time to bring the boiler on the line will be less than if the ship was on say a hydrazine/morpholine layup and cold.

Let's say it is going to take about 4 hours to raise steam prior to coming on line, You are not supposed to go above 5% of 100% boiler load while raising steam in the boiler (unless it is an emergency), and also you can not go above a (depending on the boiler and manufacturer) prescribed superheater outlet temp with both the main and aux steam stops shut. While lit off with the light off sprayer plate (some ships just have one standard size sprayer plate) say, we are burning to start, 80 GPH, as the pressure rises and more fuel is required and as we start warming up the steam lines and start our auxiliaries (for the first boiler on the line cold boiler you will come in on the auxiliary steam stop from around 200 - 400 PSI so you can start your feed pumps and maintain normal boiler water level and then come in on the main at 600 PSI, on CE600V2M D-type, 700PSI and if you are X-connected you will wait until 600 psi to bring your boiler on the line because you will drag the other one off the line) we will require more fuel to support the increase of steam demand. So in the 4 hours until we are on line say we burned 590 Gal of DFM. Then you start your SSTG's, and your standby blowers, feed pumps, etc. So then you burn more fuel. Then you test main engines and prepare to get underway. Say we waited 10 hrs from the time we started we burned around 230 GPH per boiler and say we have 2 boilers on line we have since burned 3,350 Gallons of fuel for those 10 hrs. That equals to about $9000+. To save fuel we could have used only one TG in each plant running and our standby equipment ready for single valve operation, and also adjusted our fuel air ratio therefore reducing the speed of the blower, therefore using less steam. Conserve steam and save fuel. The above numbers are variable depending on the plant set up, GT ships burn even more fuel. I tried to explain in easy terms and hope this answers your question.

As for my stance on the Iowa's Ishmael, read my signature. That was great you got to meet a WW2 Vet :cool: . Hopefully they can raise the funds for the Iowa. They have to ensure they adhere to strict guidelines though. Although they are stricken from the NVR, congress mandated that they are still mobilization assets and have to be maintained accordingly.